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Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.04.16 22:21:00 - [1] Sentinel?
Ecky X Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.04.16 22:29:00 - [2] I think you mean "Templar"?
None Oftheabove Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.04.17 05:30:00 - [3] No. Heavy neut range = 25km Sentinel neut range = 19km
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.17 06:57:00 - [4] Originally by: None Oftheabove No. Heavy neut range = 25km Sentinel neut range = 19km By the logic of this forum alt, you shouldn't fly any ship in EVE because some other ship will be able to counter it. And anyone who plays tackler in a Sentinel is to be pitied anyway. The Sentinel makes a great addition to an interceptor gang, because it is fast (can reach 5km/s) and with three small neuts can slap a -54 cap/sec penalty on any unlucky victims... even some capital ships would start worrying then. Plus drone DPS. Plus bonused tracking disruptors (kills Vagabonds like its nothing). And if the target has heavy neuts, its going to use them on your tackling gangmates to be able to GTFO. And then it runs out of cap and can't use them anymore. Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN!
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:03:00 - [5] I think this ship got good Anti-Interceptor possibilities.
None Oftheabove Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:53:00 - [6] Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 07:55:34 Why would the above make sense when: * A Kitsune can jam an interceptor OR a battleship from the relative safety of 80km. * A Hyena pilot moving at 4.5km/s and overheated webs @25km is a far greater threat to an interceptor than a Sentinel moving at 3km/s and neuts @20km. Yes, the Sentinel can go faster w/rigs and implants, but so can the Hyena. The only thing the Sentinel has going for it is its drone bay, which is of minor importance in a gang where there are others able to dish out plenty of damage.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 08:29:00 - [7] Originally by: None Oftheabove Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 07:55:34 Why would the above make sense when: * A Kitsune can jam an interceptor OR a battleship from the relative safety of 80km. * A Hyena pilot moving at 4.5km/s and overheated webs @25km is a far greater threat to an interceptor than a Sentinel moving at 3km/s and neuts @20km. Yes, the Sentinel can go faster w/rigs and implants, but so can the Hyena. The only thing the Sentinel has going for it is its drone bay, which is of minor importance in a gang where there are others able to dish out plenty of damage. Exactly. Sentinel is based on a failed ship: Curse. It is a mini curse. Curse isn't even half as good as rook or huginn. No wonder sentinel sucks. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:27:00 - [8] I personally love my sentinal and I think the only thing I would ever consider changing is the weeniest bit more cap but apart from that it rocks.
Delichon The First Foundation Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:32:00 - [9] Don't look at the "54 cap per sec" thingy. Sentinel delivers 300 cap penalty from 1 hit. Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. Than you only need 1 neut to keep the inty dry. If anything, I would fly a Sentinel over any other EAF.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.17 10:37:00 - [10] Originally by: None Oftheabove Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 07:55:34 Why would the above make sense when: * A Kitsune can jam an interceptor OR a battleship from the relative safety of 80km. * A Hyena pilot moving at 4.5km/s and overheated webs @25km is a far greater threat to an interceptor than a Sentinel moving at 3km/s and neuts @20km. Yes, the Sentinel can go faster w/rigs and implants, but so can the Hyena. The only thing the Sentinel has going for it is its drone bay, which is of minor importance in a gang where there are others able to dish out plenty of damage. The Kitsune sure as hell can't kill a interceptor solo. Maybe if the Interceptor pilot is having a lobotmy while fighting. I am not sure about the Hyena, but I don't think it got the power to go toe to toe against a longer range interceptor once it got it webbed. The Sentinel on the other hand got decent DPS, can Neut the crap out of its enemy, disabling the tank and sometimes also the weapons, while orbiting at 20km, sending its drones to kill the enemy. If we are talking about gang ships, then sure, the Hyana and the Kitsune may be of more use, but the Sentinel is so much more than a gang support ship.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Delichon Don't look at the "54 cap per sec" thingy. Sentinel delivers 300 cap penalty from 1 hit. Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. Than you only need 1 neut to keep the inty dry. If anything, I would fly a Sentinel over any other EAF. It still sucks. Kitsune is simply by far the best EAS. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Delichon Don't look at the "54 cap per sec" thingy. Sentinel delivers 300 cap penalty from 1 hit. Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. Than you only need 1 neut to keep the inty dry. If anything, I would fly a Sentinel over any other EAF. It still sucks. Kitsune is simply by far the best EAS. I'd love to see a kitsune try and take down a half decent cruiser solo.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Dheorl I'd love to see a kitsune try and take down a half decent cruiser solo. I'd like you to show me a solo cruiser kill in a sentinel. I'm pretty sure you make up alot of stuff. (I know it is possible but it doesn't mean anyone has done it) Even if you manage to show me one case I could solo that cruiser in a T1 frig aswell. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl I'd love to see a kitsune try and take down a half decent cruiser solo. I'd like you to show me a solo cruiser kill in a sentinel. I'm pretty sure you make up alot of stuff. (I know it is possible but it doesn't mean anyone has done it) Even if you manage to show me one case I could solo that cruiser in a T1 frig aswell. I would but I don't have a killboard atm. I'll try and drag up a kill someone else has done if I can find one. After having a quick flick through battle clinic to see if you have actually flown a sentinel no wonder you can't do anything with it. You have quite possibly the worst fit I've seen.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/04/2008 11:32:53 Originally by: Dheorl I would but I don't have a killboard atm. I'll try and drag up a kill someone else has done if I can find one. After having a quick flick through battle clinic to see if you have actually flown a sentinel no wonder you can't do anything with it. You have quite possibly the worst fit I've seen. My fit has nothing to do with the absence of solo sentinel cruiser kills. Show me these mythical kills.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 17/04/2008 11:32:53 Originally by: Dheorl I would but I don't have a killboard atm. I'll try and drag up a kill someone else has done if I can find one. After having a quick flick through battle clinic to see if you have actually flown a sentinel no wonder you can't do anything with it. You have quite possibly the worst fit I've seen. My fit has nothing to do with the absence of solo sentinel cruiser kills. Show me these mythical kills. No, your fit does however probably have something to do with why you think the sentinel is so rubbish. Still trying to find solo kills. Haven't yet found a way of searching for ship type though which makes it alot harder. Maybe I'm just being a nubbins.
Idxx Amarr Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:51:00 - [17] I'm new to dps and haven't flown the sentinel yet, but Im training for it now. I'm excited about the possibility of it doing something useful in a group that isn't done by everyone, i.e. its neither dps, nor tackle, but still helpful.
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.17 11:57:00 - [18] I have a little bit of experience flying the Sentinel around in gangs and in the fifth tournament, and I think that it's a fine gang ship. It can cruise around, apply TDs, and keep itself entertained by chasing interceptors and frigates around. The Kitsune is probably more useful in protracted fights, but I would say that just represents the fact that ECM is stronger than other electronic warfare right now.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Zhecao Vai I have a little bit of experience flying the Sentinel around in gangs and in the fifth tournament, and I think that it's a fine gang ship. It can cruise around, apply TDs, and keep itself entertained by chasing interceptors and frigates around. The Kitsune is probably more useful in protracted fights, but I would say that just represents the fact that ECM is stronger than other electronic warfare right now. Exactly. Frigs either tackle or they disrupt. ECM >> TDs and webs tackle >> neuts. Sentinel is a half assed ship.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Zhecao Vai I have a little bit of experience flying the Sentinel around in gangs and in the fifth tournament, and I think that it's a fine gang ship. It can cruise around, apply TDs, and keep itself entertained by chasing interceptors and frigates around. The Kitsune is probably more useful in protracted fights, but I would say that just represents the fact that ECM is stronger than other electronic warfare right now. Exactly. Frigs either tackle or they disrupt. ECM >> TDs and webs tackle >> neuts. Sentinel is a half assed ship. You seem to be forgetting it can fit 3 bonused TD's which you put in the same class of usefulness as webs/tackle.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 12:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Dheorl You seem to be forgetting it can fit 3 bonused TD's which you put in the same class of usefulness as webs/tackle. Ok simply put. If there is one ecm ship and one long range web ship in your little-medium sized gang there is no need for a sentinel nor a curse.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl You seem to be forgetting it can fit 3 bonused TD's which you put in the same class of usefulness as webs/tackle. Ok simply put. If there is one ecm ship and one long range web ship in your little-medium sized gang there is no need for a sentinel nor a curse. What, so in say a 10 man gang you can effectivly knock everyone out of the fight with just those 2 ships? Now if you bring in a curse as well you probably can.
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:15:00 - [23] I'd toss 4 light ECM's in there... --- Put in space whales!
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.17 13:26:00 - [24] What do you mean, there's no need? Maybe there's no need, but what's the harm? I'd say that TDs are actually pretty synergistic with Rapiers and Huginns, since you can team up to web midrange turret ships like HACs and BCs and drop their optimal into the dumps, making them helpless.
None Oftheabove Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:18:00 - [25] Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 14:20:13 Quote: Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. The issue is: * Even after you've nuked its cap, an mwdless but unwebbed interceptor is still moving faster than an mwding interceptor with two webs. * If a single battleship w/heavy neut or nano-hac w/medium neut shows up (which is a large percentage of pvp-fitted ships), your capacitor warfare is useless because you cannot afford to get anywhere near those ships. I understand that the Sentinel is the better solo ship - and if running around killing newbies in frigates is your thing, it could do all right. However, for fulfilling its intended role in gang warfare, I don't see how you can dispute that the Sentinel is much worse than the other two EAS (It's not even worth mentioning the stillborn Keres).
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:26:00 - [26] Originally by: None Oftheabove Edited by: None Oftheabove on 17/04/2008 14:20:13 Quote: Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. The issue is: * Even after you've nuked its cap, an mwdless but unwebbed interceptor is still moving faster than an mwding interceptor with two webs. * If a single battleship w/heavy neut or nano-hac w/medium neut shows up (which is a large percentage of pvp-fitted ships), your capacitor warfare is useless because you cannot afford to get anywhere near those ships. I understand that the Sentinel is the better solo ship - and if running around killing newbies in frigates is your thing, it could do all right. However, for fulfilling its intended role in gang warfare, I don't see how you can dispute that the Sentinel is much worse than the other two EAS (It's not even worth mentioning the stillborn Keres). If you get large neuts show up in the fight than the hyena is going to be just as useless. The point with nuking the cap of ceptors though is that they then either have a choice of running with their last burst of speed and escaping or dying, both of which help you gang and the sentinel is just as effective at getting rid of the threat of ceptors as the hyena is. The fact that it uses it's highs to do this means that it has its meds free to help protect your gang against the other ships at the same time and also has a nice drone bay which adds a bit of variety (you can either have ECM drones and just jam up all the annoying little frigs or damage drones to help break some of the tougher tanks or rep drones to get your gang mates back up to scratch after the fight). Tbh I like it and intend to carry on flying it and pimping it more and more as time goes on.
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus White Core	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:29:00 - [27] at least its not a keres
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Delichon Don't look at the "54 cap per sec" thingy. Sentinel delivers 300 cap penalty from 1 hit. Meaning - it alpha-dries an inty. No point, no web, no MWD, no nothing. Than you only need 1 neut to keep the inty dry. If anything, I would fly a Sentinel over any other EAF. It still sucks. Kitsune is simply by far the best EAS. You are probably one of the top three trolls on this forum. Seriously? If someone wants to fly one of these ships I highly suggest it, you will get on alot of kill mails and your gang buddies will be drooling over your ship after 2 hours of kicking ass. All the EAS ships are exceptional for what they do. Kitsune is not simply by far anything. It's a jamming ship. Hyena webs and goes really damn fast. Sentinal will make a pilot pay for not killing it first. And the keres can damp someone below it's scram range. (Which is pretty cool btw.) All the while these ships are EXTREMELY mobile, are hard to catch, and generally make a small gang much much nastier. Are the recons better? Yeah, but chances are you will be primaried as soon as you start fighting. In my rapier, yeah, they all come straight after me. In my hyena, they say oh **, he's going 4500 and his buddies are messing me up......................... Ignore Lyria. EAS V is the best skill I've ever trained. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the **nit.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:59:00 - [29] Originally by: demonfurbie at least its not a keres You ever fly one? Properly? Damping a BS below 40 km and scraming him at 36-42 km works pretty well in a gang. it doesn't even need a MWD, and it's extremely cap stable. I've said it before, if you like small gang pvp, train EAS V. You'll love these ships. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.04.17 16:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: demonfurbie at least its not a keres You ever fly one? Properly? Damping a BS below 40 km and scraming him at 36-42 km works pretty well in a gang. it doesn't even need a MWD, and it's extremely cap stable. I've said it before, if you like small gang pvp, train EAS V. You'll love these ships. Sorry, but you are more clueless than usual Megan. Dampening a BS bellow 40 km does exactly nothing. And scrambling at 36 km is about the same a tackling interceptor can do with much more survivability. A Keres is completely useless. As are the Arazu and the Lachesis tbh. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.17 23:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Megan Maynard You are probably one of the top three trolls on this forum. Seriously? If someone wants to fly one of these ships I highly suggest it, you will get on alot of kill mails and your gang buddies will be drooling over your ship after 2 hours of kicking ass. All the EAS ships are exceptional for what they do. Kitsune is not simply by far anything. It's a jamming ship. Hyena webs and goes really damn fast. Sentinal will make a pilot pay for not killing it first. And the keres can damp someone below it's scram range. (Which is pretty cool btw.) All the while these ships are EXTREMELY mobile, are hard to catch, and generally make a small gang much much nastier. Are the recons better? Yeah, but chances are you will be primaried as soon as you start fighting. In my rapier, yeah, they all come straight after me. In my hyena, they say oh ****, he's going 4500 and his buddies are messing me up......................... Ignore Lyria. EAS V is the best skill I've ever trained. WoW Megan Maynard is calling someone a troll. Hypocrite much? The single most useful EAS is the kitsune in a gang. Add a hyena and you got everything you need. There is no friggin use for a sentinel and you are flat out lying if you claim otherwise or you simply have zero clue about how real eve pvp combat actually works. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
ReePeR McAllem Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2008.04.18 03:42:00 - [32] Its a great ship. But EAS 5 is a must. Very skill heavy to fly well.
L'Ame Immortelle Gallente In terrorem	Posted - 2008.04.18 06:46:00 - [33] Start small Curse rant.... Reading people say the Sentinel suck was unbelievable....then someone said "it's based on the Curse - which sucks". After that I couldn't stop laughing. The Curse is one of the most feared ships in pvp and easily one of the biggest "primaries" declared in a fight. The Rapier or Rook stronger? Don't make me laugh. In a fight of 10 on 10, a Rook gets destroyed in seconds (light ecm drones or just drones in general = dead Rook) - Rapiers have some survivability with speed, but they can at most stop 2 tacklers (assuming you're not in range in the first place) from pinning them down but as soon as they do....is when they blow up in seconds. The Curse? I can drain every tackler, including the Rapier, in 1 cycle of 3 neutralizers (look up cheap talisman implant sets) and keep my range and speed uncontested. I can force every gun-based ship to hit exactly nothing with the new powerful tracking disruptors, and I run 1 rocket launcher with defenders to handle any missile happy ship but generally I'm flying fast enough that it doesn't matter. Let me present Exhibit A - http://pu.scire.getmyip.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=659 They had beyond displayed on their side 2 blackbirds, 1 falcon, 1 rapier and 2 interceptors that didn't show up because they didn't hit the one ship we lost, versus our 2 Curses. We absolutely destroyed them. Enough said. End Curse Rant. The Sentinel can neutralize at 22km (faction small neuts are only 15mil) and drain at 26km (corpi-c small nos are on the market for 7.5mil all the time). That's past most web ranges even overheated and with a huge drone bay (3 separate sets - I usually carry t2 lights, light ecm, and light armor drones), the ship is extremely deadly. If you look at our kill boards, I've ran it quite a bit (relatively new boards so you won't see them all) and extremely successful in small gangs...with my one loss being to a Huginn while being held in a bubble (he warped right next to me). It's also a very nice anti-energy-ewar ship. I've had Curses attempt to drain my sentinel, where I can nos back nearly all my cap in 1-2 cycle. I think my funniest kill was versus a Dominix....http://pu.scire.getmyip.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=579 - I held him there solo for quite a bit while the calvary arrived, while he kept running his heavy neutralizers on me and asking "how the hell were you still mwding?" after he died. Nos ftw. Also as I mentioned before, they're extremely cheap to fit - faction/complex small neutralizers and nos are extremely cheap. Talisman implant are the cheapest pirate implants. Even the rigs, Egress Port Maximizers, are only 4 mil each on the market. Anyways, fighting over what's the best EAS is kind of stupid - especially with people who think the Curse sucks. But for those actually reading this thread for advice, the Sentinel is unbelievably powerful and the Hyena is the only one close (which requires expensive snakes+rigs to be truly good). Every fight I've been in with the Sentinel as of late has got some attention - mostly from the deceased. Let them all think the Sentinel sucks....I'll just keep killing them. On that note, the Curse sucks - don't primary it Visions of my Mind and Soul
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:15:00 - [34] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 07:15:33 Originally by: L'Ame Immortelle On that note, the Curse sucks - don't primary it What exactly do you kill in your curse? I'd like to see some cool kills with this ship because apparently it's so imba great. No gang kills doesn't count. with a gang you can get on kill mails with a noob ship. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 07:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer What exactly do you kill in your curse? I'd like to see some cool kills with this ship because apparently it's so imba great. No gang kills doesn't count. with a gang you can get on kill mails with a noob ship. The Curse is awesome solo. One of the few Recons that can solo a battleship. In case you didn't know this, most ships require cap to active tank, some ships require cap to fire, and this is where the curse comes in. The curse has the ability to remove that cap, meaning certain enemies doesn't get a chance to tank or fire their own weapons. This is a great way of killing of ships. The sentinel works on the same premise, but in a smaller and more frail, but cheaper package. It doesn't remove as much cap as the Curse, and therefor needs to use more time to remove the cap. As always, if the enemy got a capacitor booster, you sometimes have to wait for the enemy to run out, which means more time is needed, but when you are zooming 30 km out from the enemy at 3km/s+ the biggest problem is if they are going to bring in backup. So... The idea of the Curse, Pilgrim, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu and Sentinel is: "If the enemy doesn't have any capacitor, the enemy won't tank very well". Passive armour tanks are of course a *****, but any and all ships got a weakness, and this is a weakness that can be overcome when facing ships that require cap to fire. Knowing is half the battle.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 08:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Inertial The Curse is awesome solo. One of the few Recons that can solo a battleship. In case you didn't know this, most ships require cap to active tank, some ships require cap to fire, and this is where the curse comes in. The curse has the ability to remove that cap, meaning certain enemies doesn't get a chance to tank or fire their own weapons. This is a great way of killing of ships. The sentinel works on the same premise, but in a smaller and more frail, but cheaper package. It doesn't remove as much cap as the Curse, and therefor needs to use more time to remove the cap. As always, if the enemy got a capacitor booster, you sometimes have to wait for the enemy to run out, which means more time is needed, but when you are zooming 30 km out from the enemy at 3km/s+ the biggest problem is if they are going to bring in backup. So... The idea of the Curse, Pilgrim, Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu and Sentinel is: "If the enemy doesn't have any capacitor, the enemy won't tank very well". Passive armour tanks are of course a *****, but any and all ships got a weakness, and this is a weakness that can be overcome when facing ships that require cap to fire. Knowing is half the battle. Really? I'd like to see some of these mythical solo curses killing battleships. Got some vids or killboard data POST trinity?
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:09:00 - [37] It is hard to find solo kills by a specific ship on a specific ship class. The only killboard that allows you to do that is the Griefwatch ones.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Inertial It is hard to find solo kills by a specific ship on a specific ship class. The only killboard that allows you to do that is the Griefwatch ones. It is hard to find because there are no such kills except very rare cases. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:28:00 - [39] Originally by: Inertial It is hard to find solo kills by a specific ship on a specific ship class. The only killboard that allows you to do that is the Griefwatch ones. Nevermind Lyria, she won't stop. ;)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Inertial It is hard to find solo kills by a specific ship on a specific ship class. The only killboard that allows you to do that is the Griefwatch ones. Nevermind Lyria, she won't stop. ;) Then show me all these mythical kills you and your buddy are talking about. I'm sorry but I live in the real pvp world on tranquility. Not some theory craft pvp on sisi or in eft or hiding your crappiness behind a blob. Show me these kills youre talking about. Please do.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 09:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Inertial It is hard to find solo kills by a specific ship on a specific ship class. The only killboard that allows you to do that is the Griefwatch ones. It is hard to find because there are no such kills except very rare cases. To get these stats I need to look at the Griefwatch killboards, since finding solo kills by a specific ship on other killboards is possible, but will mostly rely on luck or time (I gotta find the kill at random, while going trough thousands of other kills). Its basically the same with griefwatch, since me finding a solo BS kill by a curse relies on: 1: Finding a Alliance/Corp that uses Curses. 2. Finding a Alliance/Corp that fights against battleships. 3. Finding a Alliance/Corp where the Pilots flies solo. 4. The kill gotta be good, otherwise, I bet I would end up hearing "But the victim was crap fitted! This isn't proof". And then there are other things that come in to play. 1. The kill needs to be solo, which means no other people on the killmail (f.ex. a random guy who got a shot in before the Curse vs. BS fight started) Which makes it easy to see that me finding such kills are hard, actually near impossible if we take into consideration that I am not employed to find this ****, and I really like to actually play eve every now and then.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Inertial Its basically the same with griefwatch, since me finding a solo BS kill by a curse relies on: 1: Finding a Alliance/Corp that uses Curses. 2. Finding a Alliance/Corp that fights against battleships. 3. Finding a Alliance/Corp where the Pilots flies solo. 4. The kill gotta be good, otherwise, I bet I would end up hearing "But the victim was crap fitted! This isn't proof". And then there are other things that come in to play. 1. The kill needs to be solo, which means no other people on the killmail (f.ex. a random guy who got a shot in before the Curse vs. BS fight started) Which makes it easy to see that me finding such kills are hard, actually near impossible if we take into consideration that I am not employed to find this ****, and I really like to actually play eve every now and then. Exactly. This is why you won't find any such kills. There is no one flying curses solo and pulling anything off except killing stuff that you could have killed in an arbi. That is my point and you're just adding to it. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 10:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Inertial Its basically the same with griefwatch, since me finding a solo BS kill by a curse relies on: 1: Finding a Alliance/Corp that uses Curses. 2. Finding a Alliance/Corp that fights against battleships. 3. Finding a Alliance/Corp where the Pilots flies solo. 4. The kill gotta be good, otherwise, I bet I would end up hearing "But the victim was crap fitted! This isn't proof". And then there are other things that come in to play. 1. The kill needs to be solo, which means no other people on the killmail (f.ex. a random guy who got a shot in before the Curse vs. BS fight started) Which makes it easy to see that me finding such kills are hard, actually near impossible if we take into consideration that I am not employed to find this ****, and I really like to actually play eve every now and then. Exactly. This is why you won't find any such kills. There is no one flying curses solo and pulling anything off except killing stuff that you could have killed in an arbi. That is my point and you're just adding to it. Huh? Nope... My point is that there is a few hundred needles in a huge fricking haystack, thousands... Millions of hayseeds, in this particular haystack, and you are asking me to pull out the few needles that are there... If I had a huge freaking magnet, then maybe, but this huge fricking magnet doesn't exist. Instead I only got a few mini magnets, that can only be used at a minimal part of the haystack, and even if the magnetic field passes over one of the needles, it may be made out of bone, or some other non magnetic material. That was my point. Now, by not using your own killboard, or the killboards of anyone you know flies this ship, you are going to find me a solo kill done by each of the heavy Heavy Assault ships on a ship with similiar value: Munin Sacrilidge Deimos Eagle You need 3/4, if you manage that within a couple of hours, without going to your own or your friends killboards, I'll accept your arguement that the reason I couldn't find the Curse killmail, is because there aren't any.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:05:00 - [44] I tell you what lyria. Seeing as if I post a killmail your most likely gona either a) say its a pile of bullcrap or b) say you could do the same in a t1 frig why doesn't one of us fight you. I'm sure others apart from me in this thread would be happy to do this but if not then I will. Seeing as I'd be the agressor I think it's fair thats I have some say in what ship you fly (don't worry, I won't tell you to fight me in a osprey) and you can't fit specifically to combat my ship. Apart from that anything goes, just give me some idea of when your online.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Inertial Huh? Nope... My point is that there is a few hundred needles in a huge fricking haystack, thousands... Millions of hayseeds, in this particular haystack, and you are asking me to pull out the few needles that are there... If I had a huge freaking magnet, then maybe, but this huge fricking magnet doesn't exist. Instead I only got a few mini magnets, that can only be used at a minimal part of the haystack, and even if the magnetic field passes over one of the needles, it may be made out of bone, or some other non magnetic material. That was my point. Now, by not using your own killboard, or the killboards of anyone you know flies this ship, you are going to find me a solo kill done by each of the heavy Heavy Assault ships on a ship with similiar value: Munin Sacrilidge Deimos Eagle You need 3/4, if you manage that within a couple of hours, without going to your own or your friends killboards, I'll accept your arguement that the reason I couldn't find the Curse killmail, is because there aren't any. I don't need to find anything. I never claimed hacs could kill pvp fitted battleships 1 on 1. There are people that claimed curse could and I told em to show me those mythical killmails or a vid. Why? Because I know that it's *******s. Hacs on the other hand can kill the curse.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Dheorl I tell you what lyria. Seeing as if I post a killmail your most likely gona either a) say its a pile of bullcrap or b) say you could do the same in a t1 frig why doesn't one of us fight you. I'm sure others apart from me in this thread would be happy to do this but if not then I will. Seeing as I'd be the agressor I think it's fair thats I have some say in what ship you fly (don't worry, I won't tell you to fight me in a osprey) and you can't fit specifically to combat my ship. Apart from that anything goes, just give me some idea of when your online. You're going to fight me in a curse?
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl I tell you what lyria. Seeing as if I post a killmail your most likely gona either a) say its a pile of bullcrap or b) say you could do the same in a t1 frig why doesn't one of us fight you. I'm sure others apart from me in this thread would be happy to do this but if not then I will. Seeing as I'd be the agressor I think it's fair thats I have some say in what ship you fly (don't worry, I won't tell you to fight me in a osprey) and you can't fit specifically to combat my ship. Apart from that anything goes, just give me some idea of when your online. You're going to fight me in a curse? No, in a sentinel.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I don't need to find anything. I never claimed hacs could kill pvp fitted battleships 1 on 1. There are people that claimed curse could and I told em to show me those mythical killmails or a vid. Why? Because I know that it's *******s. Hacs on the other hand can kill the curse. I never claimed you needed to show a battleship solo kill, or PVP fitted ship either, just a kill of equel value. F.ex. I wouldn't be impressed by a solo Ibis kill in a Sacrilidge, but a Solo Rapier, or a Solo Deimos, or a Solo Nighthawk, or a Solo Basilisk kill would impress me, and if you had shown 3 out of the 4 I asked for, you would have convinced me. This would have shown me: 1. It is possible to dig out solo kills made by a specific ship out of a killboard. 2. I know I had something to put here, but I forgot it. Instead, my belief that me trying to dig out a solo Curse kill out of the haystack that killboards are, is impossible, have been reaffirmed.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Megan Maynard Damping a BS below 40 km ...is totally useless, in most fights. Quote: and scraming him at 36-42 km ...is better done with a HIC (or at 30km with an inty). Keres is total rubbish. Sentinel is actually halfway decent, imho.
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.18 11:39:00 - [50] Lyria is right. Curses suck. People should stop flying them One of the problems I find with the sentinel is that it's too slow to outrun warriors.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:06:00 - [52] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:06:05 Originally by: Pilgrippa Lyria is right. Curses suck. People should stop flying them One of the problems I find with the sentinel is that it's too slow to outrun warriors. They don't need to stop, people already don't fly amarr recons that much compared to the overwhelming amounts of falcons and huggins out there.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen? Meh, dunno, what ships do you fly?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen? Meh, dunno, what ships do you fly? Well I can't fly anything big if you're going to be in a sentinel. BCs and BSs and HACs will destroy your sentinel. T1 cruisers is all I can think of that might be intresting. If you win you prove that sentinel can kill something bigger then a frig, if I win I prove sentinel can't kill anything.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:04:45 Originally by: Dheorl No, in a sentinel. And you want me in what? Like an omen? Meh, dunno, what ships do you fly? Well I can't fly anything big if you're going to be in a sentinel. BCs and BSs and HACs will destroy your sentinel. T1 cruisers is all I can think of that might be intresting. If you win you prove that sentinel can kill something bigger then a frig, if I win I prove sentinel can't kill anything. Dunno, BC could be an interesting challange. What bout a standard fit harb?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Dheorl Dunno, BC could be an interesting challange. What bout a standard fit harb? Are you going to fit your sentinel standard? Does standard mean no light drones on the harbinger?
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:22:00 - [57] Okay, what I've found looking at it is that is doesn't seem like a good interceptor killer. Yes, okay, I know, fit 3 neuts on it and you can insta kill an interceptor's cap. Sweat But getting 55 dps from drones is pathetic and would take all day to kill even a frig. So, if I replace 1 neut with 1 gun, I get about 88 dps. Still going to take a while. Anyone have an interceptor killer load out that won't take ages for it to kill something? Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race.
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:24:00 - [58] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:24:54 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Caelum Dominus Hahahah - oh, give us a break. You're going to "prove" that the Sentinel can't kill anything judging from one fight? That's great. Atleast we are trying to make a point. Atleast this sentinel guy here puts his money where his mouth is instead of hiding behind "Im deep in 0.0 so is my curse but I promise my curse is badazz". Fail... just... fail. Is that how you figured out that the Curse is crap, too, by bringing it up against something random and since you couldn't win it means the ship sucks? These forums really have me chuckling sometimes.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:25:00 - [59] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Dunno, BC could be an interesting challange. What bout a standard fit harb? Are you going to fit your sentinel standard? Does standard mean no light drones on the harbinger? Yes standard does mean no light drones and yes I will be using the fit I always use.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Fail... just... fail. Is that how you figured out that the Curse is crap, too, by bringing it up against something random and since you couldn't win it means the ship sucks? These forums ***** me up sometimes. I know the curse is crap because I've seen it getting raped by anything from a harbinger, zealot to other hacs. It has little point in a gang and it is crap solo. It is not a good ship. It is half azzed at best. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:28:00 - [61] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:28:48 Originally by: Dheorl Yes standard does mean no light drones and yes I will be using the fit I always use. It will be a draw. A harbinger has a web and kill pop your drones. Most of the cases you wouldnt be able to stop it from docking or getting back to the gate. It's not really realistic. Why not against an omen? Atleast it can fight back. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:29:00 - [62] If you feel it would be unfair with you in a harb i'd be happy to fight you in a maller seeing as this argument was originally about taking down a cruiser.
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:30:00 - [63] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:31:11 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I know the curse is crap because I've seen it getting raped by anything from a harbinger, zealot to other hacs. It has little point in a gang and it is crap solo. It is not a good ship. It is half azzed at best. I've seen a Vagabond lose to a Crow, a Malediction lose to a Maulus and a Raven lose to a Wolf. That doesn't mean the ships are bad, as I'm sure most people can imagine. Have you really based your entire whining crusade on seeing a Curse lose to other ships?
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:31:00 - [64] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I know the curse is crap because I've seen it getting raped by anything from a harbinger, zealot to other hacs. It has little point in a gang and it is crap solo. It is not a good ship. It is half azzed at best.
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:32:00 - [65] Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I know the curse is crap because I've seen it getting raped by anything from a harbinger, zealot to other hacs. It has little point in a gang and it is crap solo. It is not a good ship. It is half azzed at best. I know - beats me, too.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Dheorl If you feel it would be unfair with you in a harb i'd be happy to fight you in a maller seeing as this argument was originally about taking down a cruiser. Why are you trying to pick cruisers without drone bay? It is quite normal to face cruisers with drone bays. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Caelum Dominus I've seen a Vagabond lose to a Crow, a Malediction lose to a Maulus and a Raven lose to a Wolf. That doesn't mean the ships are bad, as I'm sure most people can imagine. Have you really based your entire whining crusade on seeing a Curse lose to other ships? Ofcourse not but the core problem with the curse is that it can't inherently run the modules it is designed to run. All other recons can. They need to fix that. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer e] A harbinger has a web and kill pop your drones. Most of the cases you wouldnt be able to stop it from docking or getting back to the gate. It's not really realistic. The Sentinel have already killed your cap, so what are you killing his drones with?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Inertial Originally by: Lyria Skydancer e] A harbinger has a web and kill pop your drones. Most of the cases you wouldnt be able to stop it from docking or getting back to the gate. It's not really realistic. The Sentinel have already killed your cap, so what are you killing his drones with? Standard harb is injected. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:35:00 - [70] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:40:43 Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:40:02 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ofcourse not but the core problem with the curse is that it can't inherently run the modules it is designed to run. All other recons can. They need to fix that. ...
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Caelum Dominus I've seen a Vagabond lose to a Crow, a Malediction lose to a Maulus and a Raven lose to a Wolf. That doesn't mean the ships are bad, as I'm sure most people can imagine. Have you really based your entire whining crusade on seeing a Curse lose to other ships? Ofcourse not but the core problem with the curse is that it can't inherently run the modules it is designed to run. All other recons can. They need to fix that. Wait? It can't run a Neut or a Nos? It can't run a Tracking Distruptor? Please explain...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Inertial Wait? It can't run a Neut or a Nos? It can't run a Tracking Distruptor? Please explain... Mount 1-2 TDs, mwd and neuts in highs on a curse Mount 2xwebs and a tp and mwd on a huginn Mount the usual stuff on a rook full rack of ecm etc After that you can compare who runs out of cap first. Rook and huginn can pretty much perma run their mods. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl If you feel it would be unfair with you in a harb i'd be happy to fight you in a maller seeing as this argument was originally about taking down a cruiser. Why are you trying to pick cruisers without drone bay? It is quite normal to face cruisers with drone bays. Thats the point though. I wouldn't on purpsoe engage a cruiser which is likely to have t2 light drones. That still leaves me open to attack mallers, harbs and rax's with absolutly no worry of dying which also happen to all be reasonably common PvP ships. All they can do is sit there and try and pop my drones whilst they slowly die. I can fight ships with drone bays if I don't expect the user to have decent drone skills which leave me still able to attack omens, caracals and moas (I could of course attack stuff like augorors but you never see them and yes you probably could kill them in a t1 frig)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Dheorl Thats the point though. I wouldn't on purpsoe engage a cruiser which is likely to have t2 light drones. That still leaves me open to attack mallers, harbs and rax's with absolutly no worry of dying which also happen to all be reasonably common PvP ships. All they can do is sit there and try and pop my drones whilst they slowly die. I can fight ships with drone bays if I don't expect the user to have decent drone skills which leave me still able to attack omens, caracals and moas (I could of course attack stuff like augorors but you never see them and yes you probably could kill them in a t1 frig) Well thats the thing. You have to catch one of those ships at a belt or theyll get away. I mean many of those ships would be killable with a beam sader too. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Caelum Dominus Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:42:00 - [75] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:44:06 Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 18/04/2008 12:42:36 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Inertial Wait? It can't run a Neut or a Nos? It can't run a Tracking Distruptor? Please explain... Mount 1-2 TDs, mwd and neuts in highs on a curse Mount 2xwebs and a tp and mwd on a huginn Mount the usual stuff on a rook full rack of ecm etc After that you can compare who runs out of cap first. Rook and huginn can pretty much perma run their mods. You don't really think a Curse that's able to eat through an entire cruiser-sized capacitor in one cycle without having to make massive sacrifies in terms of speed and tank would be balanced, do you? That's far more disabling than being webbed or jammed, and should come at a cost. Personally, I can perma-run one neutralizer (+ everything else on the ship) and two for a good two minutes by sacrificing four slots to cap-enhancing modules (two lows, two med) and I think that's fine.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:45:00 - [76] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dheorl Thats the point though. I wouldn't on purpsoe engage a cruiser which is likely to have t2 light drones. That still leaves me open to attack mallers, harbs and rax's with absolutly no worry of dying which also happen to all be reasonably common PvP ships. All they can do is sit there and try and pop my drones whilst they slowly die. I can fight ships with drone bays if I don't expect the user to have decent drone skills which leave me still able to attack omens, caracals and moas (I could of course attack stuff like augorors but you never see them and yes you probably could kill them in a t1 frig) Well thats the thing. You have to catch one of those ships at a belt or theyll get away. I mean many of those ships would be killable with a beam sader too. A few of them could probably permatank a beamsaders damage though (depedning on setup of course) which is where the sentinels cap warfare comes into play. Anyways, whats your point? It doesn't mean a sentinel can't kill them. I mean to kill most things a vaga has to catch them in a belt otherwise anything cruiser and up can jump or dock but it doesn't mean that it's not a reasonable PvP ship.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:48:00 - [77] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Inertial Wait? It can't run a Neut or a Nos? It can't run a Tracking Distruptor? Please explain... Mount 1-2 TDs, mwd and neuts in highs on a curse Mount 2xwebs and a tp and mwd on a huginn Mount the usual stuff on a rook full rack of ecm etc After that you can compare who runs out of cap first. Rook and huginn can pretty much perma run their mods. It depends on your fit. But with all skills level 5, I can't get it to permarun with 3 Nuets and 2 Noses, but with 3 Noses and 2 Neuts, I can get all modules to permarun...
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:50:00 - [78] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Well thats the thing. You have to catch one of those ships at a belt or theyll get away. I mean many of those ships would be killable with a beam sader too. A Avatar can also kill those ships. Just because ship A will kill ship B ship C isn't obsoleted. If that was the case, everyone would immediatly skill for a Avatar. The sentinel is a mini Curse, and it performs it job nicely.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:51:00 - [79] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 18/04/2008 12:28:48 Originally by: Dheorl Yes standard does mean no light drones and yes I will be using the fit I always use. It will be a draw. A harbinger has a web and kill pop your drones. Most of the cases you wouldnt be able to stop it from docking or getting back to the gate. It's not really realistic. Why not against an omen? Atleast it can fight back. I've had bad experience popping warriors with medium guns (electron blasters in my case, and yes I had a 90% web). But then I could not gain any speed to lose transversal as those where the drones from a Rapier... But then the tracking disruption you'd be subjected to would be pretty bad too... I'm not so sure on the draw. On a side note can you fraps it when it happens? It's looks like a matter of interest for many people.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:55:00 - [80] Edited by: Inertial on 18/04/2008 12:56:00 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Well thats the thing. You have to catch one of those ships at a belt or theyll get away. I mean many of those ships would be killable with a beam sader too. Oh, and if you catch a Maller or a Thorax on a gate with a interceptor they can still get away. I ones accidentely jumped into high-sec with my Enyo, I still managed to microwarpdrive back to the gate, and got out with barely any structure damage. Basically, catching people on a gate won't help a Interceptor or a Nano Hac either, unless they are wartargets or you are in 0.0 or they are -5.
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:02:00 - [81] Well the sentinel is a fun ship, but a standard ghetto crow will kill it pretty easy. Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. The other inties and AF's it can deal with nicely thanks to tracking disruptors, but thats provided your setup has enough cap regen to maintain your stuff after your target is dry.
AsfALT Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Idiotic and repetitive ideas based on... wait for it... nothing! It is very rarely that someone on a forum manages to convince me that he/she must be a complete moron...i generally have faith in the human brain... congratulations! Your persistence is admirable tho!
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:06:00 - [83] Originally by: Pilgrippa Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. How do you figure that one out - crow has about 100 more effective hp but does about 20 less dps.
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:19:00 - [84] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Pilgrippa Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. How do you figure that one out - crow has about 100 more effective hp but does about 20 less dps. Lots of Sisi tests. Step away from the EFT. A crow will get a couple volleys off before you can catch him(if you do), and a couple more before your drones start damaging him. It's kinetic bonus works against your kinetic weakness. If you tank for kinetic, you'll never catch him, and he'll still kill you.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:22:00 - [85] Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Pilgrippa Even a webbed, neuted crow at 1km will still kill it before it's 4 light drones can return the favour. How do you figure that one out - crow has about 100 more effective hp but does about 20 less dps. Lots of Sisi tests. Step away from the EFT. A crow will get a couple volleys off before you can catch him(if you do), and a couple more before your drones start damaging him. It's kinetic bonus works against your kinetic weakness. If you tank for kinetic, you'll never catch him, and he'll still kill you. Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing.
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:35:00 - [86] Originally by: Dheorl Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing. Oh right, well that's not really a realistic scenario, so it's not really what I meant. It's simply the ideal place for a sentinel (or any ship) to have a crow. To get a crow to 1km and in your clutches with a sentinel requires taking a lot of damage first, which is the main reason why a crow will usually win a straight up fight.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:49:00 - [87] We gona have a duel then lyria or do you accept that there are quite a few cruisers that the sentinel can reasonably kill. Hell, soon I'll be able to engage any cruiser in mine but for the moment I'm staying away from T2 light drones when I can avoid it.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.18 13:54:00 - [88] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/04/2008 13:54:14 Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Dheorl Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing. Oh right, well that's not really a realistic scenario, so it's not really what I meant. It's simply the ideal place for a sentinel (or any ship) to have a crow. To get a crow to 1km and in your clutches with a sentinel requires taking a lot of damage first, which is the main reason why a crow will usually win a straight up fight. Not just a crow, lots of other ships can also easaly kill a sentinal. A Plated kestrel would create a lot of problems as well. But main issue is cathing targets. Sentinal lacks range on nos/neuts and more importantly, its just not reasonable to expect a sentinal to catch 10k/sec crows etc. Sentinal is basically a poor mans ship. The sentinal is more a afterthought than anything else. I don't know why someone would boher to fly one unless they cannot afford a heretic/cepter or even a curse, and even then it does not make that much sense. If the sentinal could use a cov ops cloak, then yes, it suddenly becomes useful. It fills in a niche as a combat cov ops. But as it stands, it basically looks like little thought is put in how someone is meant to use one in real pvp as opposed to "lets fly this for a laugh"
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:04:00 - [89] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 18/04/2008 13:54:14 Originally by: Pilgrippa Originally by: Dheorl Sorry, when you said neuted sitting at 1km I thought you meant as in just a straight out slug fest from 100%hp down to nothing. Oh right, well that's not really a realistic scenario, so it's not really what I meant. It's simply the ideal place for a sentinel (or any ship) to have a crow. To get a crow to 1km and in your clutches with a sentinel requires taking a lot of damage first, which is the main reason why a crow will usually win a straight up fight. Not just a crow, lots of other ships can also easaly kill a sentinal. A Plated kestrel would create a lot of problems as well. But main issue is cathing targets. Sentinal lacks range on nos/neuts and more importantly, its just not reasonable to expect a sentinal to catch 10k/sec crows etc. Sentinal is basically a poor mans ship. The sentinal is more a afterthought than anything else. I don't know why someone would boher to fly one unless they cannot afford a heretic/cepter or even a curse, and even then it does not make that much sense. If the sentinal could use a cov ops cloak, then yes, it suddenly becomes useful. It fills in a niche as a combat cov ops. But as it stands, it basically looks like little thought is put in how someone is meant to use one in real pvp as opposed to "lets fly this for a laugh" Oh no, you have to stay clear of missile ships... so does basically every other nano ship in the game. 20km isn't exactly that bad a range NOS wise, same as hyena gets with it's webs. Also sentinel can kill more stuff than ceptors can solo. If a crow came up to my vengeance (just an example) and starting letting of missiles I'd sit there and laugh and wait for it to give up. If a sentinel did it I'd start thinking O **** and trying lobbing jav rockets at it to little effect whilst loosing all my cap and dieing.
Noisrevbus Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.04.18 14:35:00 - [90] Edited by: Noisrevbus on 18/04/2008 14:50:47 Edited by: Noisrevbus on 18/04/2008 14:49:42 Someone else pointed out one (for this discussion, when you begin comparing ships) very important thing in another EAS thread: EAS (along with Recons) do very specific things that often work well together. The Sentinel does cap warfare, and wether you'd prioritize webbing or ECM for your group is quite irrelevant, when you would probably want the cap warfare and turret-killing as well; especially in a frigate sized gang or similar. Bonuses: Sure, you can always debate if the Sentinel (and possibly Keres) could do with a slight range boost to reach as far as unbonused ships or halfbonused ships do, thus imposing on their role (i mean, i think a +5km neut from the Sentinel and +10km scram on the Keres sound perfectly acceptable to enforce their typical bonus a little). That goes for all EAS though, where Kitsune ECM isn't better than other options, eg., a Blackbird (ECM being a bit exclusive with it's amount of tech one platforms specialized for ECM of course). Bonus type: But, cap warfare will remain cap warfare and if you don't appreciate what it does then don't fly the ship. A Sentinel still does cap warfare reasonably well, and cap warfare have a distinct role or situations where you want it along (even if it's not considered as standard today as it used to be, the same as most EW modules). Roles: Cap warfare is highly effective against cap-sensitive ships, and still a good option for smaller ships to combat a larger ship in groups. There are also several other modules that may be underappreciated while being perfectly viable (you often hear comments about missiles being bad for PvP, for example, while they may just simply be unapplicable to your strategy or may not fit into the group). Secondary bonuses: The TD bonus on the Sentinel help other slower moving frigates, in particular other EAS (or AF's should you dare to bring them into a gang of this sort) with the Kitsune being a good example of a ship that would benefit from the TD's while your gang employ cap warfare to further weaken the target under it's generally lower group-damage output. Let's not forget that while certain ships have double module bonuses, small ships do not have the slots to make for good omni-ships while they usually do their one or two roles very well within a group. Summary: That just further implicate how these ships augment each other, more so than being contending against each other. Get a Keres for initial tackle and sensor-supression, get a Hyena to help the Keres keep tackle, get a Kitsune to help keep the tacklers alive, get a Sentinel to help keep the Kitsune alive (together with the Keres) and also weaken the tanking capacity of your target. Then, mix in Ceptors, Frigates, Destroyers (Dictors) and even a few select Assault ships, into the blend for sheer DPS or in secondary supporting roles. All in all, i'd want all of the EAS in a larger frigate-gang, doing their different jobs.
L'Ame Immortelle Gallente In terrorem	Posted - 2008.04.18 22:13:00 - [91] I don't get many solo kills in my Curse, but that's because it's not meant to be a solo ship. I also rarely roam around solo because I'm a tactical advisor for a great alliance who daily pulls 2-3 billion out of the pockets of Hydra alliance when we're vastly outnumbered. I fly tactical groups that have extremely high efficiency rates on same-number fights and the Curse can ruin the oppositions DPS by a huge amount because it's the most survivable recon ship that can ruin the effectiveness of the opposition the most. Cap warfare is the only EWAR that has a longer lasting effect once you switch targets - add in TDs with their recent buff against falloff ships and it's the only Recon ship that gets two separate ways to fight. The Curse is also the only real "team player" Recon, where I can run some medium shield or armor drones for other people....which you can't do in any other recon (same goes for the Sentinel). It's not uncommon for me to completely shutdown all tacklers and and 2-3 battleships in a fight. I'd like to see any recon ship get close to this. (There's a reason almost every solid team in the last pvp tournament had a Curse) Think this is my last post here though because before now, I thought the forums had less trolls than most MMO threads but damn Lyria...freak out much when people don't agree with you? Put your money where your mouth is and show us some killboard wins of you in this magical Rook or Huginn. I'd like to see any fight of 10+ on 10+ with the efficiency of the one I posted recently of 12 versus 20 and we lost 1 ship and our only EWAR was two Curses versus 3 ECM ships and 1 Rapier. I also showed my killboard which had some good kills with a Sentinel in a small gang. And I'm actually out of state at the moment, or I'd take anyone on in another EAS in my Sentinel and prove the point (only problem would be a HG Snake Hyena that can do 15k in a line - but that costs a LOT more than a Talisman Sentinel and should win). Hell I'd even Fraps it for the sake of the argument.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.04.19 00:32:00 - [92] The essence of lyria's point is valid: in a shorter or smaller encounter, cap warfare, a concept still in its infancy, is worse than simply having more damage or speed because the latter immediately removes ships from play while cap war cripples but doesn't guarantee ship destruction. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.19 03:03:00 - [93] Originally by: AsfALT Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Idiotic and repetitive ideas based on... wait for it... nothing! It is very rarely that someone on a forum manages to convince me that he/she must be a complete moron...i generally have faith in the human brain... congratulations! Your persistence is admirable tho! Now thats not a nice thing to say about your mother now is it? Tell it to someone who cares. You are clueless about pvp. Just because you have 50 other morons on your side doesn't mean youre right. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.19 03:13:00 - [94] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 19/04/2008 03:14:40 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 19/04/2008 03:14:11 Originally by: Erotic Irony The essence of lyria's point is valid: in a shorter or smaller encounter, cap warfare, a concept still in its infancy, is worse than simply having more damage or speed because the latter immediately removes ships from play while cap war cripples but doesn't guarantee ship destruction. Thank you. Been trying to get this into their thick skulls for a long time now. Yes curse isn't a solo ship. It sucks for solo work. You ain't kill jack zhit in a curse alone and therefore there are no killmails stating this either. The curse is a gang ship. Ok. But sorry, if you can jam several ships or even ECCMd BSs from 150km away or if you can insta stop nanos in mid space with 2 webs it totally obsoletes the curse. Curse is useless in gangs compared to the gang value of long range web and/or ecm. Sentinel sucks, curse sucks. In comparison ofcourse. The power and value of huginns and falcons are vastly superior to curses. Dont turn this around and try to make me the stupid one. Just look at your f'ing gangs/fleets. Full of falcons and huginns. Where are all these curses? nowhere, thats where because they suck. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Dyaven Gallente Attention Limited	Posted - 2008.04.19 05:39:00 - [95] I love how a 4 page argument stemmed from a 1 word OP. ---- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams
XFreedomX	Posted - 2008.04.19 06:00:00 - [96] Webber in a Battleship vs Battleship slug fest = useless. ECM effect is destroyed once the ECM ship is destroyed. Once a ship is NOS/NEUT out of cap, that ship is out of battle unless it has a Cap Injector even if you do destroy the NOSer. And even if you do have Injector, you don't have infinite charges. I think each ship has its uses. One is only better then the other based on conditions of the battle and the pilots involved.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.19 11:02:00 - [97] This thread reminds me to the typical "DPS is most important" discussions from other MMOPGs. The typical arogant wannabe-hero allways does "DAMAGA WRAG". For him nothink else as pure DPS counts and he is allways the most important guy in a group (he likes to belive it even if it's totaly wrong g). And then there are the other guys. Tank, Healers, De-, Buffers. The pur DPS guy might kill stuff ... but NEVER without this suport at endgame ;). We had some of these pur DPS wannabes in our groups (DAoC, UO, WoW, GW) ... and none of em survived the first boss and all got replaced after the first week wich wasn't hard as we could pick them out of thousends while suport was allwas rare. Sentinal IS a very nice suport ship that might be able to kill stuff alone. But it realy shines in groups. It's funny to NOS/NEUT/TD all these nanoed stabbers at up to 25 km while my gang kills him short time later together with his egg (about 1 sek loc against a egg wich is realy not much time to react). Slot layout and dronebay offer so many posibilitys from very fast taggler to slowboot remote-suport (tracing link + remote sensor + remote repair drones anyone? cap-stable!!). Ever fitted a mini-droner? 2 Drone navi, 1 Sensor boost, 1 Drone range mods (maybe drone speed/range rigs). Realy funny to fly and a bad surprise for intis :D. (drone range with ECM-drone-skill about 80 KM (level 4) and drone speed of 10 km/s with T2 Warriors/small neut drones).
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.19 13:36:00 - [98] Luria, are we gona have this fight or not. You have a choice now really. Either fight me, accept there are quite a few cruisers/BC's I could kill 1 on 1 or in my eyes you don't really have a leg to stand on.

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