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L4ST
Helios Alliance
United Pod Service
3
   |
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi fellow capsuleers,
once again I really wonder what the implant system is for. To be more specific: the loss of Implants when a Pod is destroyed. While from roleplaying point of view this makes a lot of sense, for gameplay I just don't get it.
As having a Pod killed is an inevitable risk in PvP, people have 3 options:
a) have a PvP Alt
b) have a PvP Jumpclone
c) get your implants blown every once and a while
All these options imply that a PvPing capsuleer can't skill at the rate of another one who does not risk losing his capsule.
I just don't see the point here. Why are PvPing capsuleers punished in the hardest way possible in EVE, a lower SP rate?
As far as I can see the only impact here is that some players are scared off PvP in fear of losing implants or SP/hour by using a jump clone.
ISK are removed for implants, more ISK would be removed if less players would be scared off PvP.
I would like to see if people share my opinion or if I miss something here. |
Mister Burns
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maybe remove all attribute implants (and the attribute bonus from pirate implants) and give all players +3 in all attributes? It's an idea, don't know how good tho as I just came up with it.
Anyway not a big deal, if you can afford to pvp you can afford +2 implants and I don't really cry every time I jump into my nullsec clone and get -2 in all attribs. |
Simi Kusoni
The Synergy
Cascade Imminent
237
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1
I see the purpose of pirate/performance implants, both from a pvp and a pve perspective, but attribute enhancements sole impact is to negatively impact pvp.
Having said that, I don't think the impact is too great, having a few +4s in doesn't cost too much and the difference between 4s and 5s is minimal.
-áhttp://i.imgur.com/aWNfM.jpg |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
d) Use implants you can afford to lose |
Velicitia
Open Designs
696
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" applies to pods just the same way that it applies to ships.
Me? I pew in the same clone (+3 attribute implants) as I do other stuff in... |
Kitt JT
Crimson Empire.
Nulli Secunda
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 21:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
pvpers also have the most fun :)
most pvpers fly with +3's, which really aren't that much (20 mil when you die cause you only need to buy 2 implants)
i happen to fly with 2x +4's because i had extra lp's sitting around.
but in general, its really not that bad. the difference between +3's and +5's isnt really that much, especially if you consider that most gameplay is made for pvpers. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
438
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 22:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pish... you all are cheapos. I'm currently flying around in a frigate with a billion worth in implants right now. And I understand and accept the risks.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Addrake
Origin.
Nulli Secunda
15
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 22:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
An average pod in 0.0 costs 20m. One +3 implant for your primary attribute, one +3 implant for your secondary attribute. That's not a whole lot of money for a significant boost in training time. Sure it's not +5's.. but then I don't even use +5's on my highsec Indy alts. |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 22:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I give you the the smart system:
running a int/mem skill....run int/mem implants
running a perc/will skiil....run perc/will implants
you only lose 2 instead 4/5 implants.
Also worth noting lots of pvp'er run skill hardwires jsut for pvp. Implants with total value greater than above. And you got the smaller population who run pirates, LG as well as some brave souls with HG.
Lose stuff, rat/mission for isk, buy again. Welcome to eve. I have had meat grinder nights in th blob where I ran no implants for a few hours since ships did not last very long. It was not end of the world. The pvp was fun, made for a good night. Worth the insignificant loss in training time for the night.
Also worth noting if you are actually running pvp and learning from it....it will do way more to improving your skill than a number on a sheet. right now there is a hangar spinning idiot waiting for his AF to train to 5 to fly his AF in pvp. Somewhere else there is a player who has his AF at 2 and is actually flying his ship to get better with it. The latter is playng eve the right way. |
Wukulo
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 22:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
There is a super easy fix for this situation:
Allow players to swap clones by flying to the station a clone is in with out having to use their JC timer.
Expensive PVE clones can be avoided for PVP use while still keeping PVP implants on the field to add risk to PVP.
JC function remains useful while still being rarer enough not to be over powered. |
Lenier Chenal
Meritoc Industries Inc.
SRS.
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Doesn't make sense that a full set of implants cost more than a damn battleship hull. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
440
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote:Doesn't make sense that a full set of implants cost more than a damn battleship hull.
My computer is valued more more than my 91 Toytoa Camrey with 299k miles on it.
Hell, there's a carbon nanotube implant thingy no bigger than a pen cap that NASA is playing around with (it's supposed to auto-release medicine into your body and lasts for YEARS)... it costs more than BOTH my computer and car.
Bigger Size =/= Expensive
Often, it's the opposite.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
639
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
YEAH MAYBE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO A CORPSE RUN LIKE IN WOW
MAKE THE CORPSE ONLY SCOOPABLE AFTER 24 HOURS IF YOU HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO IT
THAT WOD BE GOUD AND MAEK GAM EASER
Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wukulo wrote:There is a super easy fix for this situation:
Allow players to swap clones by flying to the station a clone is in with out having to use their JC timer.
Expensive PVE clones can be avoided for PVP use while still keeping PVP implants on the field to add risk to PVP.
JC function remains useful while still being rarer enough not to be over powered.
I like this idea.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
L4ST
Helios Alliance
United Pod Service
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 08:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Edited.
And just to make that clear: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ISK
lol, who cares about some ISK -.-
it is about less SP/hour fpr PvPers. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 08:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
L4ST wrote:Edited.
And just to make that clear: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ISK
lol, who cares about some ISK -.-
it is about less SP/hour fpr PvPers.
Less SP/hour is the choice that PvPers take by cost-risk-benefit analysis. Cost in ISK for implants, with the risk of losing them, versus the benefit of having them.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
131
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think the point the OPer is making is that once again in EVE you are punished for being a Risk taker or participating in PvP. It would be all fine if everyone was subject to the possibility of being pod killed, but really that's not the case. In terms of combat skills it would make sense that the character actively out there fighting other pod pilots would develop skills faster than some slob hiding in a station or taking on lesser capable opponents in the form of NPCs. In terms of gameplay it another factor is dissuading players, especially new ones from participating in PvP or spending time outside of High Sec.
I don't know exactly what the answer is, removing learning implants is one that's often suggested. Alone it's hardly the biggest issue, but combined with all the rest of risk vs reward imbalance atm in EVE it certainly is worth noting, as risk and reward imbalance is very much a major issue right now |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
EVE Corporation 123566322353
114
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like the idea of removeing all +attribute implants, and giving everyone +3 base attributes
and for pirate implants, they could simply remove the + attributes on those and keep the bonus
well what about +4-5 implants?... A worthy sacrifice if you ask me, delete them all!... you could for the sake of continuity say... risk vs reward... since people in high sec have lower risk of being podded, they shouldn't be able to train faster than people in 0.0... so evening out the field sounds like the best solution |
Grumpy Owly
286
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
L4ST wrote:Edited.
And just to make that clear: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ISK
lol, who cares about some ISK -.-
it is about less SP/hour fpr PvPers.
You should be concerned and it is about ISK.
Implants offer a significant isk sink to the game in that the payments are made to NPCs and affords to remove the amassing growth of ISK in it or reduce inlfation.
Simply removing the sink effects from getting rid of implants will only help to increase inflation which is already viewed as problematic in the game.
An alternative solution might be to afford insurance on implants. I can expand on details. But if figured to essentially cover less than the LP isk amount associated with them and fine tuned to a value associated with their risk then essentially you have a means for reducing the impact of implant losses. However since you are paying insurance to NPCs and also encouraging more sales of implants with helping with replacements you are in fact incresing sinks and helping with the inflation issue even more to reduce it.
As such this service would also be more of a benefit to those who are engaged in risking the use of implants. As it would be of little benefit overall to those who keep implants safe anyhow.
So I suggest keeping them to ensure the economy remains stable but add insurance, to reduce risk impacts but also increase isk sinks to help reduce inflation.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
L4ST
Helios Alliance
United Pod Service
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Implants offer a significant isk sink to the game in that the payments are made to NPCs and affords to remove the amassing growth of ISK in it or reduce inlfation.
Simply removing the sink effects from getting rid of implants will only help to increase inflation which is already viewed as problematic in the game.
An alternative solution might be to afford insurance on implants. I can expand on details. But if figured to essentially cover less than the LP isk amount associated with them and fine tuned to a value associated with their risk then essentially you have a means for reducing the impact of implant losses. However since you are paying insurance to NPCs and also encouraging more sales of implants with helping with replacements you are in fact incresing sinks and helping with the inflation issue even more to reduce it.
As such this service would also be more of a benefit to those who are engaged in risking the use of implants. As it would be of little benefit overall to those who keep implants safe anyhow.
So I suggest keeping them to ensure the economy remains stable but add insurance, to reduce risk impacts but also increase isk sinks to help reduce inflation.
My first post sais: "ISK are removed for implants, more ISK would be removed if less players would be scared off PvP."
As you mention, there are other, and even better ways to create ISK sinks.
My first thought here by the way was "drug injections" - something other MMO's would refer to as "buff food". Boost your Turret Tracking speed by 2% for 30 Minutes. Everyone would want to have these "drug injections" and a big ISK sink would be created. This is one of a thousand ISK sink ideas out there. IMO finding an ISK sink should not be the problem, and that's why I don't talk about money here. He who has no money can't succeed - thats EVE. He who has 5 Mio SP less than a capsuleer of equal age has simply been ****** by Implant-PvP-correlation. Not very EVEish. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
EVE Corporation 123566322353
116
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
L4ST wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Implants offer a significant isk sink to the game in that the payments are made to NPCs and affords to remove the amassing growth of ISK in it or reduce inlfation.
Simply removing the sink effects from getting rid of implants will only help to increase inflation which is already viewed as problematic in the game.
An alternative solution might be to afford insurance on implants. I can expand on details. But if figured to essentially cover less than the LP isk amount associated with them and fine tuned to a value associated with their risk then essentially you have a means for reducing the impact of implant losses. However since you are paying insurance to NPCs and also encouraging more sales of implants with helping with replacements you are in fact incresing sinks and helping with the inflation issue even more to reduce it.
As such this service would also be more of a benefit to those who are engaged in risking the use of implants. As it would be of little benefit overall to those who keep implants safe anyhow.
So I suggest keeping them to ensure the economy remains stable but add insurance, to reduce risk impacts but also increase isk sinks to help reduce inflation. My first post sais: "ISK are removed for implants, more ISK would be removed if less players would be scared off PvP." As you mention, there are other, and even better ways to create ISK sinks. My first thought here by the way was "drug injections" - something other MMO's would refer to as "buff food". Boost your Turret Tracking speed by 2% for 30 Minutes. Everyone would want to have these "drug injections" and a big ISK sink would be created. This is one of a thousand ISK sink ideas out there. IMO finding an ISK sink should not be the problem, and that's why I don't talk about money here. He who has no money can't succeed - thats EVE. He who has 5 Mio SP less than a capsuleer of equal age has simply been ****** by Implant-PvP-correlation. Not very EVEish.
Already have drug injections, they are called boosters |
L4ST
Helios Alliance
United Pod Service
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
yes, but I thought of something with a little more duration, so people would actually use them ;) |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
L4ST wrote:Edited.
And just to make that clear: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ISK
lol, who cares about some ISK -.-
it is about less SP/hour fpr PvPers.
again....sp and skill levels are just a number on a sheet. Pvp'ers actually play the game. Sitting in empire eternally training on +4's and 5's will get some pretty stats. Does not mean they will pvp well.
I have trained recons purely in empire on my empire break which lead to try other games breaks and I jsut swing by to play eve when I want (or the other game's server is down). Number wise I am a kick ass player...recon 5. hybrid/projectile/missile spec 4's to cover 2 races (3 if If trained gallente cruiser 5), damn near perfect fitting skills, etc. Actual play wise, I haven't even flown these in pve let alone pvp. Recon for recon, at this point in time I got money on a guy half my sp who has actually flown his recon since day one minute of unlocking it if we met for an honest 1 v 1. You'd also if fc would be highly recommended to make a player with half my sp lead recon. That recon really needs to live to make the op happen....I am not your pilot.
Choose me again....I went blob early in life. Crow>drake>rokh, ships I am most familiar with. all i really have flown in pvp tbh. Skill wise I can fly say AF's real good. Actual play wise, if a players has focused more on frigate warfare I got 5 on them with even a quarter of my sp's if we danced in a legit 1 v1. realistically....a **** hot pilot even at low sp in a rifter will own my wolf/jag. My last months in 0.0 I was shooting pos's pretty much most of the time on ops. Before that, gate sitting in support drakes. Did a few hac roams....that found no targets so doesn't really count. |
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
64
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
L4ST wrote:a) have a PvP Alt
Too expensive when I can just pewpew on my main
L4ST wrote:b) have a PvP Jumpclone
I only do that on CTAs where I know I am going to get podded home.
L4ST wrote:c) get your implants blown every once and a while
This is pretty much what I do now.
I always tell people "don't undock in anything you can't afford to lose" and that includes your pod. |
Kitt JT
Crimson Empire.
Nulli Secunda
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 23:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just noticed OP is UPS
Whats the matter? Lose your gift implants?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15006482 |
Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have an idea that would both increase implant supply and provide an ISK sink, so it would be two birds with one stone.
You could take corpses to Medical Bays, and pay them to extract implants from the body. Since you are paying an NPC, it would be an ISK sink, thus reducing inflation. In addition, it would increase the supply of implants, making them cheaper.
Another less popular idea is adding BPOs for the Non-Faction implants, and adding BPCs for the Low-Grade Faction implants. The +3 Faction implants would still only be obtainable through the LP Store, and same thing with the Low-Grade BPCs.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Grumpy Owly
289
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 03:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote:I have an idea that would both increase implant supply and provide an ISK sink, so it would be two birds with one stone.
You could take corpses to Medical Bays, and pay them to extract implants from the body. Since you are paying an NPC, it would be an ISK sink, thus reducing inflation. In addition, it would increase the supply of implants, making them cheaper.
Another less popular idea is adding BPOs for the Non-Faction implants, and adding BPCs for the Low-Grade Faction implants. The +3 Faction implants would still only be obtainable through the LP Store, and same thing with the Low-Grade BPCs.
Wouldn't actually increase sinks.
By having an alternative source of implants you reduce dependancy on the current NPC sink versions unless of course the pricing structure and chance of implant extraction was actualy less competative than the LP provided ones as now.
So you wouldn't lower prices in theory as their intrinsic value is fixed and pretermined by LP prices. If they were more competative it would be naturally less of a sink as you'd be paying less to get the same implants by use of the extraction process, which you would think help to reduce prices in theory, but it would also significantly increase podding which as an extension would increase demand in the implants market, raising prices.
More of an issue with BPO use of course if applied from an inifinate useage sourse from materials, that would significantly reduce the needed sink as only escrow and manufacturing charges would then exist as part of the sinkage.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
156
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 04:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lenier Chenal wrote:Doesn't make sense that a full set of implants cost more than a damn battleship hull.
?? They do? The cheapest battleship hull is upwards of 60 mil, and a full set of implants is <1 mil. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 04:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Lenier Chenal wrote:Doesn't make sense that a full set of implants cost more than a damn battleship hull. ?? They do? The cheapest battleship hull is upwards of 60 mil, and a full set of implants is <1 mil.
You might want to go back and look at the implants again. That's a pretty terrible set of implants if it costs < 1 mill. A full set of pirate implants can cost > 1 bill.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
Lenier Chenal
Meritoc Industries Inc.
SRS.
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 05:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Lenier Chenal wrote:Doesn't make sense that a full set of implants cost more than a damn battleship hull. My computer is valued more more than my 91 Toytoa Camrey with 299k miles on it. Hell, there's a carbon nanotube implant thingy no bigger than a pen cap that NASA is playing around with (it's supposed to auto-release medicine into your body and lasts for YEARS)... it costs more than BOTH my computer and car. Bigger Size =/= Expensive Often, it's the opposite.
That's not a valid comparison. Your car isn't the size of half of manhattan. |
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