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Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.03 06:45:00 - [151] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Venkul Mul No, it will maybe populate 0.0 where mining ice is more secure. It will maybe? do you know what it will do or are you just guessing? Based on my experience, where my friend carebears and me are mining in 0.0 but not in low sec, I will say that I know.
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.05.03 07:14:00 - [152] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 01/05/2008 21:59:54 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tarminic You cannot get more players into 0.0 by trying to squeeze them out of high-sec. 75% of the players you'll squeezing will be squeezed right out of EVE, not into low-sec. prove it That's an unreasonable request - I can't "prove" what would happen if high-sec was removed or if all the rewards were removed unless it's actually done. I can, based on my own observations, postulate that converting a high-sec system to a low-sec one will see 90% of the current population moving out due to the increased isk. I think that most of the EVE community would agree with me. Based on the above, I draw the conclusion that the majority of those in high-sec are due to low risk, otherwise they would likely be in NPC 0.0 space where rewards are higher than in high-security space. Therefore, any change that increases the risk of staying in a location, even if the rewards are increased proportionally, wil result in a 75% net loss (most leave due to the risk, some pirates or anti-pirates move in). Assuming that the above are relatively accurate, the wholesale removal of high-security space will cause a few to adapt by moving to low-sec or 0.0 space, while the majority would simply find a different game to play. your basis of 75% of people would quit is based entirely on the argument of the stereotypical eternal quitter. If x happens I'll quit. I doubt 75% of the highsec population are ice miners and I also doubt that people will quit en mass due to the fact that they can't log on read the paper, read chain mail letters in their inbox, and check their jet cans Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov 5) - they would move to roid belts, motsu and our friends from china would move to ingun, irmalin... 7) i would whine, you would whine, all the friggin server would whine 5 and 7 how do you know? problem is you both have opinions, tarminics is based on observation and reasoning whereas yours is is based on i r leet pvp macho want more targets.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.03 23:52:00 - [153] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 03/05/2008 23:54:27 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby And then there are CCP's Devs specifically stating they aren't going to force anyone out of HighSec, meaning the whole conversation is mute.... 7. Provide a link to the quote or you are just typing. Took me a bit, stupid forum search function Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so. I think we've been saying that the whole time. About 2/3 down this thread: Link to Wrangler's comment NOW can we say this point is mute? He also said things like: Quote: And both playstyles are valid and needed, not everyone wants or should get out in low sec space. in the same thread.....
Sigmatropic Shift	Posted - 2008.05.04 00:49:00 - [154] The question that should be getting asked isn't "Is the risk vs. reward not good enough," because we know very well the answer. The question should be "Why is the risk so high," or in other words, "Why is it so easy for pirates to be effective in low-sec?" The main reason for this is that it is virtually impossible for a mining barge or the equivalent to retreat from pirate attack. The current warp mechanics allow for pirates to be virtually on top of a target within the span of only a few seconds, and after that has happened there is no way for the target to retreat. This means that the complexity of defending against pirate attack is significantly higher than the complexity of attacking a miner, and that should be changed. Sadly, I'm not entirely sure how one might go about this. A field that stops people from warping within one to two hundred km of the target could go a long way towards providing miners enough time to react, or for the pirates to be intercepted before they manage to kill the barges/transports. Increasing miner and transport tank could also help quite a bit. Perhaps the best way to accomplish this would be to allow for some sort of UI modification to make anti-pirate activities easier. I think the addition of a 'distress signal' to all ships that could be warped to by anyone in the sector could go a long way towards this. If someone was under attack in a situation they knew they could not win in, using the signal would alert those who want to run anti-pirate operations as well as other pirates in the sector. The resulting combat would dramatically increase the risk for the pirates, seeing as anyone in the sector would know that there were targets in this area. Obviously, this ability could be used to set-up ambushes and the like, but at least those warping to the signal would be combat-ready. In the end, the only way to move people to low-sec is to decrease the risk without eliminating pirates. I seriously doubt that my suggestion above would be effective as it is, but even then it still at least addresses the issue at hand in a way that makes things more interesting for all involved, as opposed to making sweeping economic changes.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:06:00 - [155] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/05/2008 01:15:09 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Thornorn All I read out of this post is force force force players to low sec. what wrong..you running out of targets out there ??? thanks for your constructive post Oh it is constructive as he excactly hit the point. Why do you try to FORCE players out there? To gang them! There is absolut NO other reason for it. How would you feel if the "garebears" FORCE you to go to highsec? Hell, someone FORCES you to play a game a way you don't like to - you would INSTANTLY cry like a baby and cancel your subscribtion. But sorry for you. Even if you remove all but level 1 q -20 agentes from highsec most highsecer would NEVER AT ANY CASE go to lowsec but move to 0.0 instead wich is much saver then lowsec! The main problem of lowsec is it's 100% favor towards gangers, idiots and griffers. THIS must be changed to make it more atractive. Nothink else. PS: you missed one very important point: IF you realy remove most belts, good agentes and any OK ways to earn money from highsec ... Ore/Module prise will rise dramatical and YOU (wannabe pirate ganger) must pay much MUCH more for your imba gang boot ... and then YOU will be back here and whine "buha, ships are way to expensive to PvP with"
Cagot Ion Corp. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:34:00 - [156] I don't like the idea of moving high-sec ice to low-sec - it would make POS operations even more expensive, and the economy doesn't need that. I do favor making low-sec more appealing to high-sec players. Not forcing them out, but encouraging them to come out. Why? Because it's currently a waste of potentially valuable real estate. Systems with stations are actually a good resource, but underutilized. If the risks were low enough to entice some people out of high sec, we could end up with three actual civilizations, with low sec being a half-way house to 0.0. This would be a Good Thing. As it currently stands, about the only people I see in low sec are in transit between high sec and 0.0; medium-sized corps doing moon mining, reactions and BP research; a few missioners, especially those grinding up or visiting R&D agents; pirates scanning down missioners; and gate campers. There were more small corps in the POS business a year ago than now, I think, because of the changes making POS ops more dangerous. There were many more missioners a year ago before scanning them down became easier. I like some of the ideas for reducing the risk without negating it; for example, allowing a pilot with positive sec status to attack one with negative sec without dropping sec. This could help foster a "community watch" ethic, allowing the residents to pick their fight sometimes rather than always being on the receiving end of a gank. It should also be more fun for the pirates, since there could be people actually looking to fight with them.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:44:00 - [157] Originally by: El'Niaga Obviously you're a bit obtuse. 1. It has been proven time and time again in games. Perhaps the most infamous example would be Star Wars Galaxies. On November 15th, 2005 Sony Online Entertainment did the third major revamp of SWG. This revamp took the game in a completely different direction trying to force the player base to play in the style the chief developer at the time wanted. Because of that they lost 70% of their subscriber base in 90 days. 2. I don't run bots, never have never will. Don't see the point in it. However if you want to stop the macroers there is a way to do it but it is a way no one's been willing to embrace. You have to eliminate paying for the game with isk. That removes the need for such an industry. 3. Maybe because I'm apparently more observant than you are about human behavior. 4. Possibly not but that's not the issue. The issue is an attempt to get more players to low sec and 0.0. The bots are not ever going to go into unsafe territory. If you move something they'll just switch to something else. You have to rob them of the reason for botting in the first place, the only way to do that is remove the isk for gtcs. 5. Yes you can generally mine in 0.0 if you can in low sec. There is one major problem in 0.0 though. There are not sufficient stations/outposts to use as bases. This makes it very difficult for the area to support even a moderate population, there simply isn't the industrial infrastructure there to support a larger population. Such could be built and built more quickly if most of the 0.0 alliances would abandon the NBSI and adopt a NRDS policy. This would allow more miners and industrials to be able to flourish in 0.0 providing the goods and services needed to supply the combat PVP crowd. 1. The NGE was the results of a Lucas Art Devloper trying to make the game more starwars by removing the complexity of the game and turning it into an fps along with destroying the crafting professions. Moving ice from highsec allows you to mine veld, move trade goods, run missions, etc. No play styles orphaned 2.Once again congradulations you "legit" miners you really are the best of the best sitting there reading your paper and sipping your coffee while you wait for your can to get full. All bot users are not isk farmers just players that don't want to be bothered with the drugery of ratting or mining when they can make their pc's do it for them Read the -'d comments on this page 3.But you don't know what you are doing is guessing 4.You assume there are no players that can just shell out for eve. Kugutsumunen bought multiple SA accounts for the sake of getting inside goonswarm whats to stop other players with big wallets? 5.NRDS lets enemy spies in NBSI keeps them out (provided they spy didn't join a blue corp :tinfoil:)
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:49:00 - [158] Originally by: Venkul Mul I would say "As often as they can". Currently they have no target so no interest in fitting sniper ships. As soon as the targets become available they will become common. As already pointed mining ice and docking every 5 minutes mean 0 ice mined. There is no "partial cycle" for ice. Evidently you find that playing the idiot is very fun, but try to reply like you had an active brain and some honesty. The opportunities for snipers in a bacon enriched aligned barge world are few and far in between could it happen yes is it likely? I don't have the odds in front of me but I'm going to say no. Once again mining in high traffic systems will lead to 0 ice were as mining in secluded areas off the beaten path will be that much more profitable. Don't assume that all of lowsec is a death zone but trying to mine ice in hysera may be a bad idea
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:50:00 - [159] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Venkul Mul No, it will maybe populate 0.0 where mining ice is more secure. It will maybe? do you know what it will do or are you just guessing? Based on my experience, where my friend carebears and me are mining in 0.0 but not in low sec, I will say that I know. You know what you and your friends are doing but you don't know what the entire mining population is doing
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:54:00 - [160] Originally by: Halkin Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 01/05/2008 21:59:54 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Tarminic You cannot get more players into 0.0 by trying to squeeze them out of high-sec. 75% of the players you'll squeezing will be squeezed right out of EVE, not into low-sec. prove it That's an unreasonable request - I can't "prove" what would happen if high-sec was removed or if all the rewards were removed unless it's actually done. I can, based on my own observations, postulate that converting a high-sec system to a low-sec one will see 90% of the current population moving out due to the increased isk. I think that most of the EVE community would agree with me. Based on the above, I draw the conclusion that the majority of those in high-sec are due to low risk, otherwise they would likely be in NPC 0.0 space where rewards are higher than in high-security space. Therefore, any change that increases the risk of staying in a location, even if the rewards are increased proportionally, wil result in a 75% net loss (most leave due to the risk, some pirates or anti-pirates move in). Assuming that the above are relatively accurate, the wholesale removal of high-security space will cause a few to adapt by moving to low-sec or 0.0 space, while the majority would simply find a different game to play. your basis of 75% of people would quit is based entirely on the argument of the stereotypical eternal quitter. If x happens I'll quit. I doubt 75% of the highsec population are ice miners and I also doubt that people will quit en mass due to the fact that they can't log on read the paper, read chain mail letters in their inbox, and check their jet cans Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov 5) - they would move to roid belts, motsu and our friends from china would move to ingun, irmalin... 7) i would whine, you would whine, all the friggin server would whine 5 and 7 how do you know? problem is you both have opinions, tarminics is based on observation and reasoning whereas yours is is based on i r leet pvp macho want more targets. Who are you to say what I want? I don't even live in lowsec I like my sec status The argument isn't who is right but it is how do you know X will happen. No one actually knows is the point.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:56:00 - [161] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 03/05/2008 23:54:27 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby And then there are CCP's Devs specifically stating they aren't going to force anyone out of HighSec, meaning the whole conversation is mute.... 7. Provide a link to the quote or you are just typing. Took me a bit, stupid forum search function Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so. I think we've been saying that the whole time. About 2/3 down this thread: Link to Wrangler's comment NOW can we say this point is mute? He also said things like: Quote: And both playstyles are valid and needed, not everyone wants or should get out in low sec space. in the same thread..... 1. The word is moot not mute 2.Moving Ice isn't forcing any one into lowsec they still have the choice to jump into that gate
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:57:00 - [162] Originally by: Sigmatropic Shift The question that should be getting asked isn't "Is the risk vs. reward not good enough," because we know very well the answer. The question should be "Why is the risk so high," or in other words, "Why is it so easy for pirates to be effective in low-sec?" The main reason for this is that it is virtually impossible for a mining barge or the equivalent to retreat from pirate attack. The current warp mechanics allow for pirates to be virtually on top of a target within the span of only a few seconds, and after that has happened there is no way for the target to retreat. This means that the complexity of defending against pirate attack is significantly higher than the complexity of attacking a miner, and that should be changed. Sadly, I'm not entirely sure how one might go about this. A field that stops people from warping within one to two hundred km of the target could go a long way towards providing miners enough time to react, or for the pirates to be intercepted before they manage to kill the barges/transports. Increasing miner and transport tank could also help quite a bit. Perhaps the best way to accomplish this would be to allow for some sort of UI modification to make anti-pirate activities easier. I think the addition of a 'distress signal' to all ships that could be warped to by anyone in the sector could go a long way towards this. If someone was under attack in a situation they knew they could not win in, using the signal would alert those who want to run anti-pirate operations as well as other pirates in the sector. The resulting combat would dramatically increase the risk for the pirates, seeing as anyone in the sector would know that there were targets in this area. Obviously, this ability could be used to set-up ambushes and the like, but at least those warping to the signal would be combat-ready. In the end, the only way to move people to low-sec is to decrease the risk without eliminating pirates. I seriously doubt that my suggestion above would be effective as it is, but even then it still at least addresses the issue at hand in a way that makes things more interesting for all involved, as opposed to making sweeping economic changes. Align you barge for station activate warp when neutral comes in the system
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 02:04:00 - [163] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/05/2008 01:15:09 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Thornorn All I read out of this post is force force force players to low sec. what wrong..you running out of targets out there ??? thanks for your constructive post Oh it is constructive as he excactly hit the point. Why do you try to FORCE players out there? To gang them! There is absolut NO other reason for it. How would you feel if the "garebears" FORCE you to go to highsec? Hell, someone FORCES you to play a game a way you don't like to - you would INSTANTLY cry like a baby and cancel your subscribtion. But sorry for you. Even if you remove all but level 1 q -20 agentes from highsec most highsecer would NEVER AT ANY CASE go to lowsec but move to 0.0 instead wich is much saver then lowsec! The main problem of lowsec is it's 100% favor towards gangers, idiots and griffers. THIS must be changed to make it more atractive. Nothink else. PS: you missed one very important point: IF you realy remove most belts, good agentes and any OK ways to earn money from highsec ... Ore/Module prise will rise dramatical and YOU (wannabe pirate ganger) must pay much MUCH more for your imba gang boot ... and then YOU will be back here and whine "buha, ships are way to expensive to PvP with" Moving Ice to lowsec is not forcing anyone into lowsec you still have the choice to jump into the system I go to highsec all the time its a strange land let me tell you. Not strange enough to cancel my account though. How do you know? If they are idiots how come they are able to blow you up seems like they know what they are doing. Once again how do you know what must be done the only basis you have to go on is the luxury additions to lowsec being considered unattractive where as there has never been any attempt at moving a required asset from highsec. Will you please tell me what a real pirate is you keep calling every one wannabes and I'm sure they would love to meet your expectations. How do you know what I am going to post? This is a thread about moving ice not moving all ores and agents out of highsec
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 02:06:00 - [164] Originally by: Cagot I don't like the idea of moving high-sec ice to low-sec - it would make POS operations even more expensive, and the economy doesn't need that. Yeah paying anything but rock bottom prices for ships must be rough how dare free markets not yield differentiating profits
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.04 03:26:00 - [165] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Cagot I don't like the idea of moving high-sec ice to low-sec - it would make POS operations even more expensive, and the economy doesn't need that. Yeah paying anything but rock bottom prices for ships must be rough how dare free markets not yield differentiating profits Explain how artificial price increases are part of a "free market". As for your mining in out of hte way places, how long would it be until the dozen or so ice belts in LowSec were heavily camped by pirates? I'm estimating 3 hours after DT if this was put into the game, effectively eliminating ice production. You still haven't proved to US this is a good idea. Since you are wanting to change an existing game feature, the burden of proof is on you. By the way, moving all ice belts into LowSec IS forcing players there. Both 0.0 AND HighSec players if they want to have a POS....
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.04 03:40:00 - [166] Edited by: Evita Achura on 04/05/2008 03:45:08 The devs already stated they won't be forcing anyone anywhere. Making discussions like this pointless.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.04 03:46:00 - [167] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/05/2008 03:47:20 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Moving Ice to lowsec is not forcing anyone into lowsec you still have the choice to jump into the system You do as you like to forbit them to use there Macinaws. They trained long time for them, they spend ISK for them and now you like to tell em "hey, go to lowsec and let me blow you up with my pimpt gangboot. Let me destroy your hard earned ISK within seconds and without any risk to me". mega LOL ?? Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I go to highsec all the time its a strange land let me tell you. Not strange enough to cancel my account though. As we are able to go to lowsec (but do NOT like to) but don't have to. Originally by: Marcus TheMartin How do you know? If they are idiots how come they are able to blow you up seems like they know what they are doing. Once again how do you know what must be done the only basis you have to go on is the luxury additions to lowsec being considered unattractive where as there has never been any attempt at moving a required asset from highsec. Year, they know how to exploid and how to griff. You can read all about all ways here at this forum like "how to be an *****". And there realy isn't much needed to kill any Barge/Exhumer except the Hulk. Evey T1 fitted T1 cruiser can do it easily. That's why they are at LOWSEC. Becouse they can gang without CONCORD (not that highsec is realy that much better but still a little bit). Originally by:** Marcus TheMartin Will you please tell me what a real pirate is you keep calling every one wannabes and I'm sure they would love to meet your expectations. How do you know what I am going to post? This is a thread about moving ice not moving all ores and agents out of highsec Every second day you can find a new idiotic thread about "move X to lowsec, I need more sheeps to gang". You call X = ice, the next X = "all level 4th", the one after X = "all Kernit/Omber". Equal what it is. It's all about "bring us more targets to farm har har rofl rofl". If YOU like to PvP leave lowsec and go to 0.0! But as you are just a "wannabe" you are to wimpy and whine for 0.0 as realy Pirates are there who kick your big fat ass
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:26:00 - [168] No ice in high sec. Price of ice rises. Ice mining becomes more profitable than regular mining. People want money. People go to some of the many low sec systems that would have ice.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:42:00 - [169] Originally by: Atomos Darksun No ice in high sec. Price of ice rises. Ice mining becomes more profitable than regular mining. People want money. People go to some of the many low sec systems that would have ice. You forgot "People that don¦t want PvP will remain in high-sec since the risk in low-sec remains the same" Desperate for easy targets?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:47:00 - [170] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/05/2008 06:51:09 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Venkul Mul I would say "As often as they can". Currently they have no target so no interest in fitting sniper ships. As soon as the targets become available they will become common. As already pointed mining ice and docking every 5 minutes mean 0 ice mined. There is no "partial cycle" for ice. Evidently you find that playing the idiot is very fun, but try to reply like you had an active brain and some honesty. The opportunities for snipers in a bacon enriched aligned barge world are few and far in between could it happen yes is it likely? I don't have the odds in front of me but I'm going to say no. Once again mining in high traffic systems will lead to 0 ice were as mining in secluded areas off the beaten path will be that much more profitable. Don't assume that all of lowsec is a death zone but trying to mine ice in hysera may be a bad idea What part of the equation: Ice system = targets available Targets available = increased presence of pirates is so hard to grasp? The moment ice become available only in low sec/0.0 all the ice systems in low sec become interesting system for pirates, so high traffic systems. Pirates are not stupid, they know how to read the map and how to search for ice systems. I is like saying "you can easily do missions in system with 4 +20 agents in low sec, you only need to find one where pirates pass rarely". Pirates know what those systems are, they have access to the same informations I have, so they check them often for fat targets. Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Who are you to say what I want? I don't even live in lowsec I like my sec status The argument isn't who is right but it is how do you know X will happen. No one actually knows is the point. If this is true you aren't even speaking from experience but you feel the need to state your things as they were truth revealed? Doesn't compute.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:48:00 - [171] Originally by: Jacob Mei Good idea with making items exclusive in low sec, bad idea to use ice. Why? Alliances in 0.0 would be able to import the fuel to high sec and given that 0.0 is where the most profit is to be had it wont be worth the threat to mine in low sec. What Low sec needs are exclusive features to drive people to go there. IE Ore with minerals that you can only find in low sec, not in high sec or 0.0 along with rewards of decent value that can only be found in low sec. even if you could make 100mill a hour you would still not see the people living in highsec now going there you would just see the pirates already swarming the place being insanely wealthy. you cannot lure or force people to lowsec with the extremely high probability of dying. if you want people in low sec make it a LOT safer and thereby harder for pirates to gank you in lowsec, doing this would increase the number of people in lowsec. as it is now you might as well go from highsec to 0.0 and skip lowsec since it is not nearly worth it.
Lurana Lay	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:52:00 - [172] Originally by: Atomos Darksun No ice in high sec. Price of ice rises. Ice mining becomes more profitable than regular mining. People want money. People go to some of the many low sec systems that would have ice. Need more targets go to 0.0. Need more targets go Empire and dec some peeps. Whoops I forgot, you folks don't want PvP at all... you just want easy mode defenseless barge/hauler/n00b kills. Ooooo the danger and excitement! Bahahahha!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:54:00 - [173] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Cagot I don't like the idea of moving high-sec ice to low-sec - it would make POS operations even more expensive, and the economy doesn't need that. Yeah paying anything but rock bottom prices for ships must be rough how dare free markets not yield differentiating profits Explain how artificial price increases are part of a "free market". As for your mining in out of hte way places, how long would it be until the dozen or so ice belts in LowSec were heavily camped by pirates? I'm estimating 3 hours after DT if this was put into the game, effectively eliminating ice production. You still haven't proved to US this is a good idea. Since you are wanting to change an existing game feature, the burden of proof is on you. By the way, moving all ice belts into LowSec IS forcing players there. Both 0.0 AND HighSec players if they want to have a POS.... Free Market Reducing the supply will increase the price but there will still be competition for the sales of the resource so its still a free market. Ice out of highsec isn't forcing any miners out of empire anymore than having zydrine and megacyte as a collectible resource for ship builders. The Idea is subjective as to who would think it was good clearly it will be hated by any one that mines ice in highsec.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 06:56:00 - [174] Originally by: Evita Achura Edited by: Evita Achura on 04/05/2008 03:45:08 The devs already stated they won't be forcing anyone anywhere. Making discussions like this pointless. A GM said that I would get in his pants notice how much integrity our statements have since we both are just typing without providing evidence. Of course Ice out of empire isn't forcing any one to do anything you don't have to mine ice
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:14:00 - [175] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/05/2008 03:47:20 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Moving Ice to lowsec is not forcing anyone into lowsec you still have the choice to jump into the system You do as you like to forbit them to use there Macinaws. They trained long time for them, they spend ISK for them and now you like to tell em "hey, go to lowsec and let me blow you up with my pimpt gangboot. Let me destroy your hard earned ISK within seconds and without any risk to me". mega LOL ?? Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I go to highsec all the time its a strange land let me tell you. Not strange enough to cancel my account though. As we are able to go to lowsec (but do NOT like to) but don't have to. Originally by: Marcus TheMartin How do you know? If they are idiots how come they are able to blow you up seems like they know what they are doing. Once again how do you know what must be done the only basis you have to go on is the luxury additions to lowsec being considered unattractive where as there has never been any attempt at moving a required asset from highsec. Year, they know how to exploid and how to griff. You can read all about all ways here at this forum like "how to be an *****". And there realy isn't much needed to kill any Barge/Exhumer except the Hulk. Evey T1 fitted T1 cruiser can do it easily. That's why they are at LOWSEC. Becouse they can gang without CONCORD (not that highsec is realy that much better but still a little bit). Originally by:** Marcus TheMartin Will you please tell me what a real pirate is you keep calling every one wannabes and I'm sure they would love to meet your expectations. How do you know what I am going to post? This is a thread about moving ice not moving all ores and agents out of highsec Every second day you can find a new idiotic thread about "move X to lowsec, I need more sheeps to gang". You call X = ice, the next X = "all level 4th", the one after X = "all Kernit/Omber". Equal what it is. It's all about "bring us more targets to farm har har rofl rofl". If YOU like to PvP leave lowsec and go to 0.0! But as you are just a "wannabe" you are to wimpy and whine for 0.0 as realy Pirates are there who kick your big fat ass So every non miner just gets free ships and instant sp right? Only miners have to train skills and make money? Once again I didn't say anything about logging in means that you get warped into mara so you aren't being forced to do anything. Thanks that is the point moving ice out of empire isn't forcing you to move you can go on and keep doing your thing. Exploit? like what activating a warp scrambler!? By using teamwork!? Heaven forbid people try working in groups right? Find a thread with we need more sheep to farm in the title (before this post) please since you know so well. Really I should go to 0.0 oh good to know since thats where I am currently but you know so well I must not be in 0.0 oh wise one.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:15:00 - [176] Originally by: Victor Forge Originally by: Atomos Darksun No ice in high sec. Price of ice rises. Ice mining becomes more profitable than regular mining. People want money. People go to some of the many low sec systems that would have ice. You forgot "People that don¦t want PvP will remain in high-sec since the risk in low-sec remains the same" Desperate for easy targets? He didn't say all of highsec leaves due to a gold rush. You are reading too much into things
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:24:00 - [177] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Jacob Mei Good idea with making items exclusive in low sec, bad idea to use ice. Why? Alliances in 0.0 would be able to import the fuel to high sec and given that 0.0 is where the most profit is to be had it wont be worth the threat to mine in low sec. What Low sec needs are exclusive features to drive people to go there. IE Ore with minerals that you can only find in low sec, not in high sec or 0.0 along with rewards of decent value that can only be found in low sec. even if you could make 100mill a hour you would still not see the people living in highsec now going there you would just see the pirates already swarming the place being insanely wealthy. you cannot lure or force people to lowsec with the extremely high probability of dying. if you want people in low sec make it a LOT safer and thereby harder for pirates to gank you in lowsec, doing this would increase the number of people in lowsec. as it is now you might as well go from highsec to 0.0 and skip lowsec since it is not nearly worth it. Who are you to say who wouldn't like more potential isk in their wallet
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:25:00 - [178] Originally by: Lurana Lay Originally by: Atomos Darksun No ice in high sec. Price of ice rises. Ice mining becomes more profitable than regular mining. People want money. People go to some of the many low sec systems that would have ice. Need more targets go to 0.0. Need more targets go Empire and dec some peeps. Whoops I forgot, you folks don't want PvP at all... you just want easy mode defenseless barge/hauler/n00b kills. Ooooo the danger and excitement! Bahahahha! Unless You are fighting a bot as long as there is a person controlling the character it is PvP by definition
Corduroy Rab Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.05.04 07:33:00 - [179] Edited by: Corduroy Rab on 04/05/2008 07:33:55 While this is certainly not a new idea and does hold some merit I cannot really see this ever being implemented. No doubt if this did happen the cost of ice would rise. Rising ice costs would cause rising POS operation costs and rising prices in many market items. More expensive market items I do not necessarily see as a bad thing, since isk can essentially be printed. However, I do see this change agitating quite a few people. I am not of the alarmist camp that sees massive departures, but at the same time I am not sure if CCP would be willing to risk that. As for people moving more to low security space, I am sure some would and if done properly there would be the potential for great profits. However, for the vast majority I cannot see them moving anywhere.
Sim'a Nuk Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.05.04 08:34:00 - [180] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Unless You are fighting a bot as long as there is a person controlling the character it is PvP by definition Mining Barge/Exhumer fighting any combat ship is a gang r@pe by definition. Anyway free bump for one man's crusade to destroy T2 market. /Straw Woman out PS: What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this thread?

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