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Petition to change Logserver / ban BACON.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.06 07:09:00 - [271] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 06/05/2008 07:09:20 Originally by: Gone'Postal Oh but I could do so much more, people appear to believe that 3rd party mods are allowed if and I quote, "all BACON has done is taken a part of eve that was tedious and time consuming and automated it" well frack me, thats the pinical discription of mining. so using your logic a program that I could write to automate mineing is allowed. as its a boring aspect of the game... The distinction I draw is between programs that play the game and those that don't. As far as I'm concerned, a program that redistributes system outputs into a different form for the user to view/hear/whatever is legit, without question. I'd also similarly allow those that exist to redistribute player inputs(e.g., some keyboards exist with built-in macro buttons, binding such a button to press F1-F8 and trigger all your turrets in one keystroke seems legit), as is necessary for any changes to the GUI, among other things. I'd place the condition on those that there can be no time delay though - the player must be at the controls in order for anything to happen. But simply changing what a mouse click at the top left of the Eve window means, or the like, is hardly abusive. By contrast, what you're referring to is a program that provides automated player inputs, without any need for the player to do anything but set the script going and wander off. I know of a few games that allow for such "play", but frankly, Eve shouldn't be one of them, it'd be too damaging to the game economy for those who actually play the game themselves. Anything that enhances a player's ability to play the game themselves I'm for, anything that replaces a player's ability to play the game themselves I'm against. And yes, I know the rules I set out are far larger than what the EULA currently allows for. I think the EULA should be expanded accordingly, though I won't use any programs that violate the rules set out by it until it is changed. I'm not going to get into the exact technical distinction of what the new EULA should look like, or where to draw the line precisely, but that's the distinction I make in principle.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.05.06 07:18:00 - [272] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The distinction I draw is between programs that play the game and those that don't. As far as I'm concerned, a program that redistributes system outputs into a different form for the user to view/hear/whatever is legit, without question. I'd also similarly allow those that exist to redistribute player inputs(e.g., some keyboards exist with built-in macro buttons, binding such a button to press F1-F8 and trigger all your turrets in one keystroke seems legit), as is necessary for any changes to the GUI, among other things. I'd place the condition on those that there can be no time delay though - the player must be at the controls in order for anything to happen. But simply changing what a mouse click at the top left of the Eve window means, or the like, is hardly abusive. Erm.. BACON works even if your not at the controls, does it not? it also by your own admission automates that little mouse click at the top of the screen without you clicking on anything, macros like the Logitech G15 the user still has to press a button.. you do not have to do that with BACON. So BACON is a macro for checking new local users, granted it's a damn nice way of doing it but you just defined it as a macro. (it automates a player action without the player) *I'm off to work so please don't think that my lack of replys is victory Questions, Comments, Problems, Please address them to the CSM.. Now CCP Never have to visit the forum. -V8I-
Franco Caruso	Posted - 2008.05.06 07:42:00 - [273] Edited by: Franco Caruso on 06/05/2008 07:42:26 Reuser, NightmareX and everybody else, CCP has spoken. There is no more need to discuss BACON at all. Reuser, you Sir, stop the selective reading. Read this post carefully and do not stop after the first paragraph, when it start to get ugly for you and your BACON. Yes, CCP in the early days, was quicker in reacting to stuff like that. Now, having become a decentralized corporate behemont ( wow that sounds good ) they are slower, but nevertheless, will react as announced by Atropos. If you have missed it here is the quote: Originally by: CCP Atropos We have created and released EVE, the community then creates Program A. In turn we reanalyse our stance and change EVE. The community then creates Program B... ad infinitum. Originally by: CCP Atropos We're midway through that cycle presently, waiting for the 'official' response from us with the next iteration of our software. So, just sit there and enjoy BACON while it lasts. There is no need for further discussion. And here is something I thought I never will say, I agree with Siigari. If Hydra wants to show that they are as mature, intelligent and game loving as they depict themselves to be, remove the website, the downloads etc. You have made the game better, wanting to do so or not. Saying that, I hope that CCP renders logserver and its output useless to any third party developer.
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:34:00 - [274] Franco Caruso, i agree on that. So the more Reuser are trying to defend BACON the more stupid he is, because BACON is decleared dead anyways by the devs. So why defend it? And again, if you want to discuss BACON here, then do it in a normal way instead of making all kind of excuses and trolls here. Because i think some new topics about BACON is going to get locked pretty fast anyways. So keep it all in one topic, also this one.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:14:00 - [275] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/05/2008 11:14:50 Originally by: Franco Caruso And here is something I thought I never will say, I agree with Siigari. \o/ Epicness ITT :D
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:27:00 - [276] Nightmarex, seriously bru stop trying to emberass yourself with selective quoting and just handpicking what you want to be pushed into people's eyes from staff employees :P CCP staff members have private angles, CCP has its own angle, as always CCP are on the job. The way you're going you're just giving the impression of a converted carebear :P Seriously, as much as I agree on the principalities, your methods are counterproductive (in the mean time Hydra loose yet more lazy folks in the belts thinking stuff like this makes a difference). CAOD FTW.
Virtuozzo IVC Consortium Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:32:00 - [277] Reuser, don't take it the wrong way but you appear to be missing how you're being played. Not for fun, gain, content or even actual topic, but just to continue and deliver the ammo. CCP's observation on how people make idiots of themselves has already been quite clear, the folks you're trying to argue with are sofar unable to grasp the dismay in that observation, and if they can't get that, they won't get much of anything. In the mean time, all of this is coming down to the forum equivalent of a gank vs ratter op, which for all intents and purposes is going exactly as it does in game: no matter what you do, every wreck delivers more loot and free ammo. Don't expect the forum ADD warriors to be capable of looking at the actual big picture: policy, historic usage, technical aspects, usage (far) beyond the simple levels of Local interaction to far more damaging application types, the list goes on. This is just a normal attention event. CAOD FTW.
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:35:00 - [278] Like i told on the reply before this one Virtuozzo, i have told everything i have to say about BACON. There was also a valid point why i made this topic, and it's been told several times in this topic, and i hope you accept it. Not sure if CCP have anything more to say or add though, but if you have, please do so.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.05.06 11:42:00 - [279] Cleaned Please try and stay on-topic and not end up discussing posting styles.

Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:10:00 - [280] Edited by: Thorradin on 06/05/2008 12:10:21 Originally by: NightmareX Inability to accept GM Grimmi's post even though he's a lead GM. Your unwillingness to accept what one of the lead GMs (you know, thee guys who make and enforce rules on MMO) has said about a questionable program, and that they are working to effectively kill such programs, is a bit much, but atleast there's a bluebar in this thread.
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:14:00 - [281] Originally by: Cori4n Ventrilo and TS were around far before the advent of EVE Voice, and still are more common than it for the obvious reason. EVEMon and EFT haven't been dealt with at all. Not that I'd mind if there was an EFT built into EVE ;) EFT is just a fancy calculator (programmed in VB isn't it?) while EVEmon is an alarm clock with some pictures. Neither are something you realisitcally can do away with, or need to because they give no more advantage than a spreadsheet, or in EVEmon'd case, a post-it note on your monitor saying when to change a skill (which is what I did before dl'ing evemon to see what the fuss was about). I've missed more skills wth EVEmon that a post-it note though.
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:16:00 - [282] Originally by: Thorradin Edited by: Thorradin on 06/05/2008 12:10:21 Originally by: NightmareX Inability to accept GM Grimmi's post even though he's a lead GM. Your unwillingness to accept what one of the lead GMs (you know, thee guys who make and enforce rules on MMO) has said about a questionable program, and that they are working to effectively kill such programs, is a bit much, but atleast there's a bluebar in this thread. Like i said, what he said didn't explain the things i was after good enough. CCP Atropos explained exactly what i was after. The GM only said that it wasn't against the current EULA or TOS, and that was not enough for me or many others here. And i think you can agree on that to.
nastea	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:37:00 - [283] Wow....All I can say is WAH about the whining about BACON. I think the GM's post sums it up. If you want some spyware on your pc that watches everything you do....Go play a rogue on warcraft, at least that way you will still get to sneak up on people and stab them in the back while having your computer monitored. Just admit your mad that you can't sneak up on certain people anymore and that your now simply projecting. If anything you made BACON more popular by having threads by this. "Whining is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do but gets you know where"
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:41:00 - [284] Originally by: nastea Wow....All I can say is WAH about the whining about BACON. I think the GM's post sums it up. If you want some spyware on your pc that watches everything you do....Go play a rogue on warcraft, at least that way you will still get to sneak up on people and stab them in the back while having your computer monitored. Just admit your mad that you can't sneak up on certain people anymore and that your now simply projecting. If anything you made BACON more popular by having threads by this. "Whining is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do but gets you know where" Have you readed THIS?.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:41:00 - [285] Originally by: NightmareX Have you readed THIS?. I readeded it. :)
Savlin Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:43:00 - [286] Petition signed.
nastea	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:46:00 - [287] Edited by: nastea on 06/05/2008 12:56:18 Edited by: nastea on 06/05/2008 12:55:00 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: nastea Wow....All I can say is WAH about the whining about BACON. I think the GM's post sums it up. If you want some spyware on your pc that watches everything you do....Go play a rogue on warcraft, at least that way you will still get to sneak up on people and stab them in the back while having your computer monitored. Just admit your mad that you can't sneak up on certain people anymore and that your now simply projecting. If anything you made BACON more popular by having threads by this. "Whining is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do but gets you know where" Have you readed THIS?. I have bedderer things to do than readed this. EDIT: BTW I have to thank you NightmareX for pointing this out to me....Considering what I have read. I think I may just install it until its deemed no longer working or its deemed "illegal". I am sure many other people can thank you for pointing it out to them. I will make a special place just for you in the XML file to alert me to if we are ever in the same zone...That I may say hello.
Hobo Roughsleeper	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:47:00 - [288] Signed.
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:04:00 - [289] Edited by: NightmareX on 06/05/2008 13:05:56 Originally by: nastea I have bedderer things to do than readed this. EDIT: BTW I have to thank you NightmareX for pointing this out to me....Considering what I have read. I think I may just install it until its deemed no longer working or its deemed "illegal". I am sure many other people can thank you for pointing it out to them. I will make a special place just for you in the XML file to alert me to if we are ever in the same zone...That I may say hello. Both me and CCP can't stop you or anyone else from using BACON until the Logserver is changed, and we wont stop you either. Simply because we can't atm. So just use BACON while you can. Or at least you could show CCP some respect by not using it. I at least did show CCP respect. Why do you think CCP is not to happy to post on the EVE forum today?, it's because so many players in EVE today doesn't respect CCP, and tbh, it's bad. Because the more CCP communicate with us on the forum, the better it is.
nastea	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:16:00 - [290] Edited by: nastea on 06/05/2008 13:18:15 OH NO /WRIST EDIT: If I did not respect them I wouldn't pay them...Besides its not against the Terms as previously stated. Breaking terms would be disrespect.

CCP Atropos C C P	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:20:00 - [291] I think we're done here. I've said all that I think really needs to be said on the matter, and yet none of you can keep this on track; it all descends into anarchy and name calling. Go take a break, fly around in your new shuttles, and let the matter lie. If you can't be civil to each other, than let me step in and stop you from saying anything to each other. Topic locked.

NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:23:00 - [292] Originally by: nastea EDIT: If I did not respect them I wouldn't pay them...Besides its not against the Terms as previously stated. Breaking terms would be disrespect. So only because you pay them to play EVE it means you respect them?, you can pay them, but still be an utterly idiot on the forum and not respect CCP there. Not that i'm saying you are it, but you get the point?

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