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Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.06.07 15:12:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 07/06/2008 15:22:27
 Originally by: Stitcher
From what I gather, dissolving parliament:
A) Was the correct and diplomatic thing to do in response to a vote of no confidence
B) Has not "destabilized" the government in any way, as autonomous functions continue to tick over
c) Is emphatically NOT the start of a power grab by Midular, because she's effectively kicked herself out of office.
Quote:
Transitions of power are never easy but she's making this one as rocky as possible and it all seems to point to her refusal to let go of power when, after years of increasing complaints on her leadership she's been given the ultimatum of a vote of no confidence.
Midular's response was to immediately strip herself of all power and hold an immediate general election which she is unlikely to win, and you think she's refusing to let go? You have your facts muddled up.
Hear, hear. A voice of reason.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
Stitcher
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 15:16:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
If the prime minister chooses not to ignore it, the best option to reinstate confidence into the government after a vote of no confidence is to call for re-elections. The only way for the prime minister to call for premature re-elections is to dissolve parliament.
not true.
Prove it.
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Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 15:28:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Sapphrine
not true.
Prove it.
So she's mandated to hold office to full term and isn't allowed to stand down? Its a democracy not enforced lead. No democracy has ever forced a premier to hold office to term
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Stitcher
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 15:55:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Stitcher on 07/06/2008 16:00:39
The vote of no confidence, you may not have noticed, was in Midular's Government. The government is more than just one person. In this case, the vote was against Midular and her party.
In other words, it was not only necessary for Midular to step down, but it was also necessary for her government - her party - to be removed from the majority position as well. Retiring the entire party would have effectively been a dissolution of governmnet, with the added dilemma that it really would have thrown a spanner in the works of the government system.
Besides, you didn't actually make any attempt to address the point I was challenging you on.
You claimed that it is [sic.] "Not true that he only way for the prime minister to call for premature re-elections is to dissolve parliament."
What you tried to use as your "proof" was to point out that it's possible for the Prime Minister to retire.
Those are two very different things.
In other words, you just very clumsily dodged an inconvenient flaw in your argument. Either that or you are deeply ignorant about the process of your own people's government
So again I say: Prove it.
PROVE that there is another way for the government to call for a premature general election without dissolving itself.
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Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Evanda Char
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:03:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Evanda Char on 07/06/2008 16:03:35
Originally by: Sapphrine
well it appears that Davlos is both incapable of fighting for either honour or come to chat, whichever he was planning to do.
I just came to have a chat in Gulfonodi and as soon as offer a place and a location he just seemed to dissapear.... funny that. No fighting spirit, nor even the manners to respond to an offer to talk in person.
He's been on shift 16 hours. He can kill you tomorrow.
Either that or he got the impression you didn't have anything worthwhile to say.
-Eva-
Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:15:00 -
[156]
Or perhaps he is... what is that word you Electus Matari like to throw around... a coward. I think after such a bold and public threat he could at least have undocked under Concord protection, let alone gone to meet Sapphrine a mere two jumps away to discuss his grievance.
Given the loss of face at stake I would have thought a few minutes wouldn't have been so much to spare.
EMpty cans rattle the loudest. How about we see if that sabre you have been rattling all night has a blade attached? Electus Matari are so keen to talk about killing our pilots or waging civil war. Personally if I was in your position I'd stop yakking right about now and hope everyone forgot this shameful display.
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Stitcher
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:21:00 -
[157]
Typical Ushra'Khan impatience. Things don't go your way instantly, so you howl and tantrum and stamp your feet.
Grow up, the entire squabbling pack of you.
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Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:37:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 07/06/2008 16:00:39
<stuff>
PROVE that there is another way for the government to call for a premature general election without dissolving itself.
Yes, if you read about democracy's, you no confidence governments not the premiers. What it usually means is that the government in its current form is not deemed to have the confidence of the people. Midular is a major part of that and her removal may well be acceptable to most as a change.
My claim was that Midular had more than one option of how to respond. If you choose to interpret a vote of no confidence in the ruling party as requiring that the entire party stand down i can see why you might say it was the only option.
I'd say that Midular had the option of a quick fix that would have left someone at the helm of the republic now during a very strained time in galactic relations and has instead chosen the only option that leaves no one able to lead effectively for at least two months.
My argument was not flawed, i just started from a different set of starting assumptions and lets face it, we're all making some assumptions as we don't have all the facts at hand.
before we do another round of prove it, if the intention is to hold a general election as soon as possible then there is no other way i can see barring dissolving parliament, based on what we know. If however the intention is to instigate a change as fast as possible then there are a number of options, many of which allow a leader to be back in control far faster and which allow for far less turmoil.
QED.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:38:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Stitcher
Typical Ushra'Khan impatience. Things don't go your way instantly, so you howl and tantrum and stamp your feet.
Grow up, the entire squabbling pack of you.
I have to assume from the entirely vague nature of that insult you just felt like wagging your lips a bit? Or do you actually have a grievance you'd like to state?
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Drauqhk Shathet
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:41:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 07/06/2008 16:00:39
The vote of no confidence, you may not have noticed, was in Midular's Government. The government is more than just one person. In this case, the vote was against Midular and her party.
In other words, it was not only necessary for Midular to step down, but it was also necessary for her government - her party - to be removed from the majority position as well. Retiring the entire party would have effectively been a dissolution of governmnet, with the added dilemma that it really would have thrown a spanner in the works of the government system.
Actually, from the news report we hear this:
"Although largely symbolic, the end tally showed overwhelming support for the no-confidence measure..." What this tells us is that her own party voted against her. And you are correct that it is not just Prime Minister Midular they voted against, but all of her appointed ministers and cabinet members, but that is hardly the whole of the Sebiestor tribe or even the whole of Sebiestors in parliament. The alternative choice to dissolving parliament as a whole would be that she would simply resign and allow the remaining members of parliament (including her own majority, who voted against her) to select a new Prime Minister as they did when first elected. That new Prime Minister could then choose to retain or replace such cabinet members as was deemed necessary and all in all a smoother transition would have been accomplished in my opinion. As it is, Karin Midular had a choice before her and she decided that the best course was to let the Minmatar people decide as soon as possible who should represent them and lead them in government. That was her decision, but the fact still stands that she had a choice. We can debate the merits of her decision, but we cannot debate that no other choice was available.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are |
Evanda Char
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.07 16:42:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Or perhaps he is... what is that word you Electus Matari like to throw around... a coward. I think after such a bold and public threat he could at least have undocked under Concord protection, let alone gone to meet Sapphrine a mere two jumps away to discuss his grievance.
Given the loss of face at stake I would have thought a few minutes wouldn't have been so much to spare.
EMpty cans rattle the loudest. How about we see if that sabre you have been rattling all night has a blade attached? Electus Matari are so keen to talk about killing our pilots or waging civil war. Personally if I was in your position I'd stop yakking right about now and hope everyone forgot this shameful display.
Read back through your own posts, Mr Thrace. Read through those of your alliancemates. Then accuse us of rattling sabres.
And as I said, I honestly think it likely that he has Sapphrine blocked. Everyone else does. After all, if Dav's a coward, he'll still be a coward tomorrow, right? Or should I accuse every single one of you who docks to sleep of cowardice, regardless of when you come back and what you do?
Anyway, to Karn, if you want to talk, you know where I am. You don't have to though; this is just another round of smacktalk. It's water off a duck's back to us by now.
And to anyone outside all this who's reading, I suggest you go to the sources and read for yourselves, and look up any terms you might not know. Not everything that members of U'K are saying here is true, well-informed or without liberal reinterpretation.
Those who have fought with us or against us know the truth, and those who go through life with their own eyes open will know the whole of it.
-Eva-
Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 17:06:00 -
[162]
Its funny you know evanda, i can even get comms with the likes of CVA, PIE, AM, VV and keep largely civil tones yet something about apologist midulites just rubs me the wrong way when they try to claim to be loyalists without the actions or even the words to back it.
I do hope your diplomats don't go blocking other diplomats because of personal and petty slights quite as easily... would leave you very isolated i imagine.
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Tablaren
Kingdom of Kador
Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.06.07 17:07:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Yes I've seen your efforts out and about, a ship here a ship there. Sometimes flying around a large formation in a parade formation yet some how getting nothing done or catching any slavers as they simply evade your slow lumbering task force.
Funny thing was, after our last two week clandestine operation into the heart of amarrian space, amarr it self we noted a distinct movement of the slavers into Minmatar space as they fled our wrath favouring their chances on yours.... they didn't seem to come back... while we were there.
Just to clarify, I have alot more respect for the fighters of PIE and VV at this point than I do for EM. VV and PIE fought tooth and nail and whilst I do not agree with their religious beliefs and their insistence on supporting slavery, I can respect their fighting spirit.
And please don't make yourself look daft quoting figures publicly like you've done in the past, you only embarass your alliance showing the minimal impact you've had on the fight to date whilst simply staying within the republic, drinking tea and eating biscuits.
You my friend are an idiot and a disgrace to calderi everywhere.
The "Slavers" who left amarr space to go into matari space first of all were not slavers, were not engaging matari, nor commiting offensive actions against republic loyalists.
If you don't mean us then who do you mean, because from what you said as well, PIE and VV fought you "touth and nail" so it obviously wasn't them, wasn't deli because they are in mandate, and I didn't see any other amarr groups operating out of republic space so unless you consider the occasional movements that are made from time to time into republic space to fight EM by those groups I don't see what you can mean. Also to be quite frank, if you were able to "watch them go to matari space" then what exactly were you doing, playing with yourself while u were cloaked so you could watch them fight someone else?
Your "infinite wrath and fighting spirit" apparently weren't enough to stop this group whoever they were from "taking their chances with EM" Who I might add have shown more tenacity then one might expect from a group that spends their time enjoying tea and biscuits as you say.
So why exactly did you allow an amarr organization to move into matari space and do what they wished unopposed? I thought you came for all ur people, does that mean only the ones in amarr space and not the ones in the republic?
We come for our people you say. You apparently only think about the ones in amarr servitude as you let a group of "slavers" run about unopposed in republic space and run from any real engagements even when you have men on the field who are being propulsion jammed. I guess you didn't come for them either. You also don't really seem to care about matari who are enslaved by the Angel cartel as you are living side-by-side with them.
What do you call someone who runs around killing people while "rescueing" others while not really bothering to do anything to rescue people? That's right, a murderer.
The only thing you beasts know is violence and I personally am disgraced to see another person born of the state behave in such a disgusting manner.
Now if you may, I'm late for tea with my lovely wife. I hope that being a calderi you might be capable of considering your actions and coming to the light. *nods*
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 18:18:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Sapphrine on 07/06/2008 18:20:10
Tablaren, glad you guys could make it to the thread.
I was indeed referring to PIE and VV pilots who were definitely sighted in increasing numbers around the Rens area during the latter week of our campaign. Kador sadly didn't seem to have as many forces in the area as we'd been lead to believe but i'm sure we can find you in the future now.
As for letting them roam around Minmatar space and the rest of what you said, funnily enough we followed them and did engage them where we could. Its also this following and watching action which showed us the inaction of EM.
It speaks volumes when a slaver organisation comes to EM's support... and they call us like amarrians :)
edit: I forgot to mention, see page two for my response to being a disgrace to caldari. Do enjoy your tea and biscuits, perhaps you could invite evanda over at some point, i think you'd get on well :)
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Major Death
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:01:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Major Death on 07/06/2008 19:02:22
Edited by: Major Death on 07/06/2008 19:02:01
Quote:
Then accuse us of rattling sabres.
Your sabres are rusted in the scabbard from lack of use. I don't think you could even rattle them at this stage.
Quote:
The only thing you beasts know is violence and I personally am disgraced to see another person born of the state behave in such a disgusting manner.
Here's another to add to your disgust slaver stooge. Feel worse now?
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;)
CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!' |
Stitcher
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:03:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Yes, if you read about democracy's, you no confidence governments not the premiers. What it usually means is that the government in its current form is not deemed to have the confidence of the people. Midular is a major part of that and her removal may well be acceptable to most as a change.
My claim was that Midular had more than one option of how to respond. If you choose to interpret a vote of no confidence in the ruling party as requiring that the entire party stand down i can see why you might say it was the only option.
I'd say that Midular had the option of a quick fix that would have left someone at the helm of the republic now during a very strained time in galactic relations and has instead chosen the only option that leaves no one able to lead effectively for at least two months.
My argument was not flawed, i just started from a different set of starting assumptions and lets face it, we're all making some assumptions as we don't have all the facts at hand.
before we do another round of prove it, if the intention is to hold a general election as soon as possible then there is no other way i can see barring dissolving parliament, based on what we know. If however the intention is to instigate a change as fast as possible then there are a number of options, many of which allow a leader to be back in control far faster and which allow for far less turmoil.
Reasonable, but I'd still appreciate hearing what the specifics of these alternatives are. Thus far, you've just claimed that they exist, which is not the same thing as proving that they exist. You've not even listed hypothetical courses of action, just slapped down this blanket claim that there are "a number of options" without providing supporting evidence.
Meanwile, I have a lot of other people telling me that this dissolution is the fastest, smoothest and most efficient way to resolve the crisis in the minimum time-frame. Which means that it's their word versus yours and you'll notice, based on my outburst, that I don't exactly respect the Ushra'Khan.
Originally by: Sapphrine
I have to assume from the entirely vague nature of that insult you just felt like wagging your lips a bit? Or do you actually have a grievance you'd like to state?
Hardly "vague" was it? I accused your organization of impatience.
Specifically, it is my opinion that the U'K are a spoilt brat in the political playground, constantly making unreasonable demands and then throwing a temper tantrum every time said demands are not instantly met. You want instant results, and don't care if the instant results are far worse than the long-term results. If you can't have your way now then you aren't happy, and your response every time is to challenge people, to insult them, and to lash out violently against your scapegoat de jour, which has variously included nearly every other organization in New Eden at some point or another.
Never once in the entire time that I've been watching your alliance has it gone with the measured, conservative, sensible response. It's always "freedom" this and "slavers" that and "traitors" the other. "We come for our people", "1 ISK for Midular", accusing anyone who doesn't agree with you of cowardice or complicity... It's all buzzwords, insults, cat-calling and smack-talk with you people. There's no middle-ground in your philosophy, which means that the Good in the U'K's mission statement - the abolishment of slavery - is lost in the glare from your burning bridges.
Your brashness is self-destructive, your stubbornness infuriating, and your callousness counter-productive. Your entire organization, in my opinion, is guilty of being immensely childish, short-sighted and arrogant.
That is my grievance.
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Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Tablaren
Kingdom of Kador
Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:10:00 -
[167]
That was a delightful cup, now to get back to the business as I travel back to our operating bases. *nods*
You have an interesting definition of a "slaver" None of the members of our organization take slaves nor is it legal too, we are simply followers of the true faith and a group that believes in the vision of our Lord-Heir and the blessed Coelestis.
I was not, and have not come to EMs support. The fact that I occasionally hunt pirates in metropolis and consider a group who doesn't bomb civilians and kill miners more highly then you does not make me an ally as we have no relations.
Now, I wonder why you avoided the topic of "your people"
You keep going on and on about how you are here to save your people. Then you live and work beside the Angel Cartel in their stations despite their enslaving more matari each year then all groups of amarrian criminals and illegal slavers combined.
I suppose being a fork-tongued vagrant and criminal is all you will ever amount too.
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Kudon Astraisx
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:43:00 -
[168]
Being a member of Electus Matari and a supporter of the Minmatar Republic does not make me a "Midulite". Like any other Republic citizen, I exercise my rights via voting and freedom of expression, but I do not violate the laws of my nation in order to save it.
And anyone who thinks EM doesn't fight is misinformed.
--
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.08 00:20:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Tablaren
You keep going on and on about how you are here to save your people. Then you live and work beside the Angel Cartel in their stations despite their enslaving more matari each year then all groups of amarrian criminals and illegal slavers combined.
We do not work with the Cartel, check my records you'll see I have slain many of their ships. More slaver lies. I thought you had gone for good you have been hiding so long, the war has been over for weeks. It is safe to come out, for now.
Kingdom of Redemption are well known to us as active supporters of the Amarr Empire. Our scouts had been watching your activities for quite some time before we declared war on you.
The Cartel enslaves more Matari than the Amarr Empire?, you cannot be serious. That is beyond laughable. There is slaver propaganda and there is nonsense, you just crossed the border into utter tripe.
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Kaylana Syi
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.08 05:32:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Davlos
Edited by: Davlos on 06/06/2008 12:28:52
How can anyone say that Shakor presently controls Parliament despite not being an elected head of state, and anyone say for certain that if Shakor does get elected, he'd remain in control? How can any head of state govern with relentless warmongering rhetoric and do nothing for his or her people?
This is a warmonger we're talking about. Someone who may receive at least 80% approval ratings during his first 100 days, and then have it plummet at first sight of publicised defeat during some small, unimportant skirmish, raid, or battle. War costs lives. We didn't expend all of this work against slavers, organization of rehab and leading freed slaves to a new, free life to throw them into the all-devouring jaws of war.
Don't be spouting nonsense about 'stronger leader' and 'stronger this and that pish posh' any longer. It makes me want to choke a baby with a bloody ball gag.
Organizations such as Electus Matari serve no other purpose than to destroy reverence to our past and to add fear to a future where the tribes embrace our culture. All the while lurking in the dark ready to embrace political power and favoritism through hollow action.
You talk about primal desires as if you walked among the people you want to cure. You talk as if you had your hand on the pulse of the people. In the very same breath you bastardize a Minmatar leader who pays reverence to those who were tortured and experimented on during our darkest hours.
I would cut your tongue out Davlos if it wasn't surely to grow back like the reptile you are. Don't even begin to think you have a pulse on what drives a true child of Matar. You have nothing more than statistics gathered from the weakening of our people through words such as peace and ideas such as tolerance.
Shakor is exactly what the Minmatar people need right now. An individual that has been tempered and peered into the enemy's eye in his own courts as well on the field of battle. He has seen the black soul of the Amarrian Empire. It deserves nothing more than to die and allow the Amarr people to embrace freedom.
Peace has always come with the price of blood. Stop your complaints as they reek of notions of lost profit margins and the slipping of leashes. Read the news feeds, take in the atmosphere of the Fleet captains and walk in the corridors of our stations. If you don't have the stomach of war then you have sympathized with the wrong people and that will be your folly.
Team Minmatar
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zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.08 07:31:00 -
[171]
Edited by: zoolkhan on 08/06/2008 07:35:43
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
And by doing so you and all of EM will become KOS to Ushra'Khan.
let those two have their private disput imo
sapphrine doesnt require alliance wide backup, he is a skilled pilot.
answering a forum insult with death treats is admitting of defeat in my books.
I find it disturbing where this is heading between two alliances fighting for the same side with only different methods.
both sides shoudl pull back their ******* egos on a titanium leash. nothing is gained with a mudfight in here. nothing but yet another omnidirectional loss of respect...
I know for a fact that the EM pilots do have a fighting base.
They just fight other enemies for other reasons.
Dont be arrogant, never be arrogant .. it does not suit any of you 
recruiting -forum
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Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.08 08:48:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 08/06/2008 08:55:16
With respect Zool, you have the wrong end of the stick.
I do not see Davlos demanding a duel of Sapphrine. If he did, that is for Sapp to answer to as he sees fit. Do you seriously think I of all people would step in between Davlos and Sapphrine, or set Electus Matari KOS as a result of a duel?
Davlos clearly stated he would shoot Sapphrine on sight if he saw him in space. That does not constitute a duel under any tradition I know of and anyone firing on Ushra'Khan pilots (outside of an engagemnet of honor) gets themselves, their corp and their alliance if applicable set red, as per our standard ROE.
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zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.08 10:21:00 -
[173]
Edited by: zoolkhan on 08/06/2008 10:25:46
Quote:
With respect Zool, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.
I do not see Davlos demanding a duel of Sapphrine.
Davlos clearly stated he would shoot Sapphrine on sight if he saw him in space. That does not constitute a duel under any tradition I know of and anyone firing on Ushra'Khan pilots (outside of an engagement of honor) gets themselves, their corp and their alliance if applicable, set red, as per our standard ROE.
yes but it was clear to me that there is a minion speaking
I cannot believe that their leadership is 100% happy with his statements.
So, would you really mercilessly apply your standard ROE because some peeon does something stupid?
Or would you rather contact EM-Leadership and have them deal with it?
And if necessary focus fire on that worumwarrior?
Certainly you agree with me that there are worthier targets out there.
Anyways, you all better have a smoke and a cold can of jovian chill, my bar is always open.
recruiting -forum
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.08 10:37:00 -
[174]
I agree zools to an extent. I went to speak with Davlos in space directly to see what could be said about the matter however all indications to date imply that he would fire on me. I can't say for sure that he would but if he does then he has been forewarned of the consequences.
In the absence of an EM official response to back him that doesn't just say he can kill me tomorrow, i will continue to hope he wont but will remain wary.
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Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.08 11:47:00 -
[175]
Zool the reason we apply our ROE regardless is because it keeps things clear cut and simple, this is a war machine I lead, not a knitting group.
I thought it fair to warn Electus Matari of the potential repurcussions of Davlos acting on his words, and while doing so let the community at large know where Ushra'Khan stands on such matters.
Davlos either speaks for Electus Matari and will act with their blessing, or he doesn't and will leave them with a diplomatic mess to sort out should he open fire.
My door will remain open either way.
Karn grins.
I am entirely chilled brother.
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Kudon Astraisx
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.08 12:26:00 -
[176]
While I do not speak for EM, I sit on the council and am familiar with our ROE.
EM pilots are ordered not to fire upon U'K pilots. In fact, we are ordered to assist where viable and appropriate if we observe U'K in combat inside the Republic. Should Davlos fire upon a U'K pilot, he will be violating alliance policy.
While I regard the bounty upon Midular's head as treason, I am confident that our true enemies are held in common.
--
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zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:05:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
I am entirely chilled brother.
perhaps i ment the other guy then :)
I can drink my stuff alone if you insist, but that would mean bad business for the bar
and seliah would get a cut in her lousy salary.
recruiting -forum
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Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:18:00 -
[178]
Kudon - thank you for that confirmation, it's reciprocated.
Zool - I'm there bro.
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Shira d'Radonis
The Amarr Mission
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:37:00 -
[179]
What I'm hearing is a lot of white-washing from EM and a lot of ignorant bombast from U'K. My how little has changed around here...
Eva and Arkady, while you can pretend that Midular dissolved Parliament in good faith, the fact that she expelled Shakor (which she arguable does not have the authority to do) suggests otherwise. If this were simply a move that recognized the concerns of Parliament and complying with expectations, she would not have been so confrontational about it. And if this were something that came as a standard part of a vote of no confidence, why is the opposition so angry about it? Why is their rioting in the streets? Wouldn't they want these elections? Dissolving parliament may have been the correct course of action, but as usually, her execution of it was artless and inflammatory.
I think they have cause to be worried when she effectively becomes the only force in government for two months. She can't pass any new laws, but she still controls all of the existing government aparatus and has the ability to enforce existing laws which can be used to effectively hand the election back to her. The Minmatar have made using seemingly innocuous laws to disenfranchise opposition parties into an art form since the Republic's founding. Managing to unseat an entrenched government has often required an incredible force of will and often the bringing to bear of more force than the government is willing to brush aside.
To U'K as a whole, you have criticized Prime Minister Midular for years unceasingly, and now you've effectively been handed what you wanted and you're still not happy. If she had stepped down and appointed a successor to lead, you would be howling that it was a change of face without a change of course. You've got the chance for elections to put a favorable party in power. If only you hadn't spent the last few years extracting yourself from the political process, you might have actually had an opportunity help ensure she doesn't steal this election. Now it will be only Electus Matari that will be involved in the process, and we know how that is going to go. More likely though, the Minmatar electoral process will be better off without your presence however deeply flawed it may be.
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ōąquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
"Our histories, one day, will absolve me..."
- Shira d'Radonis
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:49:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 08/06/2008 14:51:12
Originally by: Shira d'Radonis
Eva and Arkady, while you can pretend that Midular dissolved Parliament in good faith, the fact that she expelled Shakor (which she arguable does not have the authority to do) suggests otherwise. If this were simply a move that recognized the concerns of Parliament and complying with expectations, she would not have been so confrontational about it.
Do you know why she "expelled" Shakor? Do you know even wheter she expelled Shakor? The news report says there are reports - nothing is certain. And if she did - she does have the authority to do so if Shakor commited crimes. Do you know whether there were any? No. Did Midular have the chance to actually explain herself on that session? No, she had to be escorted out of Parliament because of unruly members of parliament. Now it's weekend, and parliament work is resting.
There are two options for us - for us capsuleers as well for the people on the streets:
Either, you jump to conclusions - for example, Midular had full rights to expel Shakor, because he did something criminal! Or maybe, Midular had no rights to expel him, because he didn't do anything! Maybe also, Midular wants to seize power, and is just faking the call for re-elections!
Or you can say: We don't know. There's barely anything in the reports that says what actually happened. We'll have to wait until we get further information, before we can react to that.
Note that neither approach lends itself to actually affecting anything. We can't do anything in either case. Posting enraged on IGS about how the conclusions you jumped to are The Truth ("believe me, I must know!") is just marginally more useful than going to the streets and protesting against (no idea what against, but let's protest).
I'll wait until I know further details, and let legal government processes work.
Until then, Shira - jump.
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