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Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:17:00 - [121] Originally by: Liang Nuren You want to use a Condor with 1 ECCM to be 100% immune to ECM... how lame is that? -Liang Screenshot or it didn't happen.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:19:00 - [122] Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Even agianst a gang of 1x ECCM battleships, a good Falcon pilot can keep an average of two ships jammed at a time. ECCM is not an effective counter unless you cripple your ship by fitting two or three. By the same token, fitting one battleship with three can fend off an almost infinite amount of Falcons. If a recon could not have any effect at all, there would be no reason to fly it. Notice what happened when... Damps got nerfed: Nobody flies the Arazu/Lachesis anymore Nos got nerfed: Nobody flies the Pilgrim anymore ECM got nerfed: Nobody flew the Rook/Falcon anymore Are we really sure that we want this game to become (in totality) an excel spreadsheet with my gang's DPS and hitpoints versus yours? -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:25:00 - [123] Originally by: Liang Nuren By the same token, fitting one battleship with three can fend off an almost infinite amount of Falcons. No that is not how it works.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:26:00 - [124] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Screenshot or it didn't happen. Though a screenshot is not hard to come up with, the difference between 99 and 100% is exceedingly small. And we've asked you for exact numbers, and all you do is *****, moan, and whine about how a Falcon can permajam 7 triple ECCM'ed battleships. And then you'll tell us that TD's aren't effective enough (unless they're being used against you), and that Damps are overpowered. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:26:00 - [125] Originally by: Liang Nuren ECM got nerfed: Nobody flew the Rook/Falcon anymore Are we really sure that we want this game to become (in totality) an excel spreadsheet with my gang's DPS and hitpoints versus yours? -Liang For me it is enough to nerf the falcon a bit. I mean it's basically as effective as a rook but it can cloak. You need to ask yourself why everyone is in a falcon instead of a rook.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:27:00 - [126] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No that is not how it works. It actually is, and it gets more so as gang sizes get smaller (and closer to reality). -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:27:00 - [127] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer For me it is enough to nerf the falcon a bit. I mean it's basically as effective as a rook but it can cloak. You need to ask yourself why everyone is in a falcon instead of a rook. No, the appropriate question is why they're in Falcons instead of Arazus and Pilgrims. The answer is that nerf bat that you love to swing about. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:28:00 - [128] Originally by: Liang Nuren Though a screenshot is not hard to come up with, the difference between 99 and 100% is exceedingly small. And we've asked you for exact numbers, and all you do is *****, moan, and whine about how a Falcon can permajam 7 triple ECCM'ed battleships. And then you'll tell us that TD's aren't effective enough (unless they're being used against you), and that Damps are overpowered. -Liang Really? I have said all those things?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:29:00 - [129] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Though a screenshot is not hard to come up with, the difference between 99 and 100% is exceedingly small. And we've asked you for exact numbers, and all you do is ***, moan, and whine about how a Falcon can permajam 7 triple ECCM'ed battleships. And then you'll tell us that TD's aren't effective enough (unless they're being used against you), and that Damps are overpowered. -Liang Really? I have said all those things? Yes, at various points, you have said all of those things. I've seen you *** about TD's, and in the next thread (both on the same page) ask for them to be boosted. I've seen you campaign long and hard against damps (even still, though that crusade has been overtaken by your ECM crusade), and I've seen you say that any ship should be all but immune to ECM with a single ECCM. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:29:00 - [130] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer For me it is enough to nerf the falcon a bit. I mean it's basically as effective as a rook but it can cloak. You need to ask yourself why everyone is in a falcon instead of a rook. No, the appropriate question is why they're in Falcons instead of Arazus and Pilgrims. The answer is that nerf bat that you love to swing about. -Liang Excuse me but what else can gallente and amarr recon pilots hope for? Have you seen ANY indication of the trying to fix these recons? Please show. If you can't this must mean ccp is quite happy with their performance and if that is the performance of recons I would like to bring down the other recons to that same level. Feels pretty fair to me.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:30:00 - [131] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Though a screenshot is not hard to come up with, the difference between 99 and 100% is exceedingly small. And we've asked you for exact numbers, and all you do is ***, moan, and whine about how a Falcon can permajam 7 triple ECCM'ed battleships. And then you'll tell us that TD's aren't effective enough (unless they're being used against you), and that Damps are overpowered. -Liang Really? I have said all those things? Yes, at various points, you have said all of those things. I've seen you *** about TD's, and in the next thread (both on the same page) ask for them to be boosted. I've seen you campaign long and hard against damps (even still, though that crusade has been overtaken by your ECM crusade), and I've seen you say that any ship should be all but immune to ECM with a single ECCM. -Liang Lol when did I have a crusade against damp??
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:32:00 - [132] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Excuse me but what else can gallente and amarr recon pilots hope for? Have you seen ANY indication of the trying to fix these recons? Please show. If you can't this must mean ccp is quite happy with their performance and if that is the performance of recons I would like to bring down the other recons to that same level. Feels pretty fair to me. TBH, it only feels fair to you because you want the game to be an EFT simulation of DPS, Hitpoints, and Tank. I'd go play a nice game of Galciv or SE5 if I wanted that, thank you very much. No, the forum warrioring and politicking you put out merely muddys the water, and without adequate... nudging... CCP never gets the hint. How much whining did it take to make the Amarr overpowered like they are now? A lot. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:33:00 - [133] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Lol when did I have a crusade against damp?? Before the damp nerf, and I've seen your disparaging comments about them remaining overpowered even since then. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:36:00 - [134] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 15/06/2008 17:36:42 Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, it only feels fair to you because you want the game to be an EFT simulation of DPS, Hitpoints, and Tank. I'd go play a nice game of Galciv or SE5 if I wanted that, thank you very much. No, the forum warrioring and politicking you put out merely muddys the water, and without adequate... nudging... CCP never gets the hint. How much whining did it take to make the Amarr overpowered like they are now? A lot. -Liang Yeah because amarr was obviously balanced because everyone flew them right? Sure blame it on EFT. Amarr overpowered? I don't think so. You just think so because we amarrian pilots have been needing to pvp hardcore because of the inherent faults in our races ships. Now that they have fixed and balanced many of our ships I can see how you might think we a overpowered. It's skill.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:36:00 - [135] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Lol when did I have a crusade against damp?? Before the damp nerf, and I've seen your disparaging comments about them remaining overpowered even since then. -Liang Well lol, damp was quite overpowered wasnt it? Have you seen what an arazu could do back then??
Bootleg Greg	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:38:00 - [136] Use Ghost Magic...
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:39:00 - [137] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/06/2008 17:40:37 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yeah because amarr was obviously balanced because everyone flew them right? Sure blame it on EFT. Amarr overpowered? I don't think so. You just think so because we amarrian pilots have been needing to pvp hardcore because of the inherent faults in our races ships. Now that they have fixed and balanced many of our ships I can see how you might think we a overpowered. It's skill. The Apoc outperforms the Arty Tempest in every possible way at every possible task... how is this balanced? IMO, Amarr is way way overpowered. -Liang Ed: Also amusing that you call what the Amarrians are doing skill, and nano pilots are clueless skilless noobs. Cute, but I like the absurdity of your claim. -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:40:00 - [138] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Well lol, damp was quite overpowered wasnt it? Have you seen what an arazu could do back then?? The problem with damps had nothing to do with bonused ships, and everything to do with damps being powerful on unbonused ships. Kinda like TD's are now. The Arazu was fine back then, and the Falcon is fine now. I just wish that we had them both available now so that there was some variety in ewar. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:48:00 - [139] Originally by: Liang Nuren The Apoc outperforms the Arty Tempest in every possible way at every possible task... how is this balanced? IMO, Amarr is way way overpowered. The tempest is a better close range BS then the apoc. It's balanced. Yup. True story.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:50:00 - [140] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The tempest is a better close range BS then the apoc. It's balanced. Yup. True story. Not really, because of the 60+km optimal you get on the Pulse Apoc. Apoc >> Tempest in all situations... it's overpowered. Yup. True story. On TQ. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 18:06:00 - [141] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The tempest is a better close range BS then the apoc. It's balanced. Yup. True story. Not really, because of the 60+km optimal you get on the Pulse Apoc. Apoc >> Tempest in all situations... it's overpowered. Yup. True story. On TQ. -Liang LoL no, tempest is a great solo BS.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.15 18:14:00 - [142] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/06/2008 18:15:58 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer LoL no, tempest is a great solo BS. The Tempest is a very fickle ship. No matter what (shield or armor), you have a mockery of a tank - yet you can trade utility for a smidgeon of gank. Honestly, the ship is double damage bonused, and still has trouble keeping up to a ship that has no damage bonus at all. How balanced is that? Answer: It isn't. -Liang Ed: I'd like to point out that the Tempest can do nothing that isn't better done by a Phoon or a Maelstrom. :) -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 18:29:00 - [143] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/06/2008 18:15:58 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer LoL no, tempest is a great solo BS. The Tempest is a very fickle ship. No matter what (shield or armor), you have a mockery of a tank - yet you can trade utility for a smidgeon of gank. Honestly, the ship is double damage bonused, and still has trouble keeping up to a ship that has no damage bonus at all. How balanced is that? Answer: It isn't. -Liang Ed: I'd like to point out that the Tempest can do nothing that isn't better done by a Phoon or a Maelstrom. :) It gets double damage bonus to balance out the low damage of projectiles on that ship an projectiles have lower damage because they dont need cap. Sounds balanced to me.
Etho Demerzel Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.06.15 18:50:00 - [144] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 15/06/2008 18:52:41 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer But where is the love? Oh I may not bother to back up every single truth with numbers because I actually pvp in this game unlike some. No, my dear, you don't pvp. You play counterstrike in space. But that couldn't be different, we are on different leagues, I am afraid as I do possess a brain. Edit: I appologize for my previous statement. I degraded Counterstrike too much. Counterstrike is a much better game than the game you want Eve to be. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.15 19:50:00 - [145] Originally by: Etho Demerzel No, my dear, you don't pvp. O really? Wait, you do pvp? Really? Do you? What a joke.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:00:00 - [146] Curse owns the living daylights out of a Falcon/Rook - it combines drones, a high sensor strength and neutralizers, all of which pose very much of a threat.
Etho Demerzel Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:02:00 - [147] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Etho Demerzel No, my dear, you don't pvp. O really? Wait, you do pvp? Really? Do you? What a joke. You seem to know a lot about me. But then again, maybe you don't. Unfortunately for you I don't give away information for free. Now you are pretty easy to figure on the other hand. You are exactly what your posts show. A mediocre player who does not understand the very basics of the game he plays, and who has to blame his own incompetence over anything but himself. Falcons are perfect as they are, so is ECM. The Flaw is in you, my dear. But I fear you cannot fix it... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:23:00 - [148] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 15/06/2008 20:23:55 NEEDS MOAR E-PEEN BOASTING EDIT: At least Lyria has the balls to post on his main.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:36:00 - [149] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer For me it is enough to nerf the falcon a bit. I mean it's basically as effective as a rook but it can cloak. You need to ask yourself why everyone is in a falcon instead of a rook. No, the appropriate question is why they're in Falcons instead of Arazus and Pilgrims. The answer is that nerf bat that you love to swing about. -Liang Excuse me but what else can gallente and amarr recon pilots hope for? Have you seen ANY indication of the trying to fix these recons? Please show. If you can't this must mean ccp is quite happy with their performance and if that is the performance of recons I would like to bring down the other recons to that same level. Feels pretty fair to me. So your argument is that since Arazus and Pilgrims are broken, Falcons should be broken too? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:40:00 - [150] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Curse owns the living daylights out of a Falcon/Rook - it combines drones, a high sensor strength and neutralizers, all of which pose very much of a threat. Rubbish, 1 falcon can permajam 12 Curses - from the next system! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

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