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How to counter falcons and rooks.

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Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.12 05:48:00 - [31] Battleships? duh. You want something the same size to counter something. I mean something bigger always counters something smaller one way or another. Every answer shouldn't be: Bring a BS, Carrier and a Titan. Falcons are used in cruiser sized gangs. If you have a cruiser sized gang of your own you don't want to drag along a battleship just to counter a damn recon. So let's just leave the silly battleships out of this. Cruiser sized counters....Let's hear them. Oh and the ones that actually work on a falcon with bookmarks, ie forget the curse.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.12 07:31:00 - [32] If you're going to insist the falcon has bookmarks, then it's reasonable to specify some preparation on behalf of the countering ships too. And where is it written that counters must be in the same class? An interceptor is smaller than a falcon, but, with drones assigned, it can kill one - even if it's jammed, it can still bump the falcon and make it hard to warp. Eagles, Vagabonds and Arazus are cruiser class counter ships if you insist though. All 3 of those make me damb nervous. A BC/Commandship with Sensor Integrity link running will significantly reduce my jamming chances. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Billy Merc ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.12 08:38:00 - [33] In gangs....simple Ingrediants 1 x pilot with decent electronics skills 1 x ferox ??? x PECCM 2 x ECCM (for the ferox itself) ??? x plates a) No one primaries ferox b) no one suspects ferox c) No one in your gang has to compromise there ship to fit dumb ass ECCM mods
Segge Bolled Rainy Day Industries	Posted - 2008.06.12 10:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 12/06/2008 01:06:21 Bad falcons + rooks will die to anything nano, with each nano ship going after them increasing the chance of falcon death. Bad nano pilots approach the Falcon directly from a long range, and at the last moment before they can bump/scramble: The Falcon warps clean away, leaving the nano to automatically slow down ... and stop. Leaving a wave of well timed cruise missiles to slaughter an inattentive Interceptor,
Dennis Nedry	Posted - 2008.06.12 10:18:00 - [35] 1 volley from 2 stealth bombers
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.12 10:21:00 - [36] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/06/2008 10:25:42 Silly as it sounds, but Cruise Ravens with ECCM + range/speed rigs are excellent falcon killers. You wont scramble it, but by the time the 200km+ falcon relises he is under attack and trys to warp out, he might die to the second volley, sometimes the first. The sheer number of 200-250km jamming falcon pilots who do not align is shocking. -- Billion Isk Mission
Crellion Art of War Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.06.12 11:15:00 - [37] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Battleships? duh. You want something the same size to counter something. I mean something bigger always counters something smaller one way or another. Every answer shouldn't be: Bring a BS, Carrier and a Titan. Falcons are used in cruiser sized gangs. If you have a cruiser sized gang of your own you don't want to drag along a battleship just to counter a damn recon. So let's just leave the silly battleships out of this. Cruiser sized counters....Let's hear them. Oh and the ones that actually work on a falcon with bookmarks, ie forget the curse. Are you thick or are you just pretending to be? Go wash dishes :)
Farsi Caldoran	Posted - 2008.06.12 12:12:00 - [38] ^_^ You get a warning bracket whenever any ship fires at you, and yes not aligning is kind of silly
Tamoko	Posted - 2008.06.12 12:20:00 - [39] Edited by: Tamoko on 12/06/2008 12:24:08 Originally by: Streikeer all good info. what's the best Gallente ship for this purpose? Arazu? Lachesis? Keres? A single ECCM on an Arazu or Lachesis yields about 50 ECCM strength. A triple-amped falcon has about a 50% chance of missing every twenty seconds if he's got two gallente racials. Less if he's got some off-race or multispecs to slam down on you, too. A second ECCM sets you around 95 ECCM. Same falcon now has a 72% chance of missing with two racials. Suddenly his life expectancy just got real short. ... As for best ship for making the kill, I'm going to go with ECCMed Megathron (gallente only). Though the arazu probably stands a better chance of disabling the falcon. ---
achoura	Posted - 2008.06.12 12:27:00 - [40] Ishtar/fof nano hac. *The EVE servers and their patches*

Zeknichov Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.12 12:36:00 - [41] Here's why the best way to counter ECM is with more ECM. 5a vs 5b engagement. 5a has a falcon. 5b does not. Group meets each other. 'a' has 4 people that are main targeting one ship from 'b'. 3 'b' ships are jammed. One 'b' ship is a nano-ishtar or curse or whatever counter you have and is engaging the falcon. Ship is almost in range of falcon. Falcon warp away to SS 200Km away in the opposite direction. Falcon continues jamming everyone in the fight. The falcon counter just wasted all that time trying to get in range of the falcon for nothing and needs to do it again. B would be more effective just having a falcon then a specific ship designed to counter a falcon. The best counter to ECM is ECM.
Jallem Sims Quantum Warriors	Posted - 2008.06.12 13:05:00 - [42] welcome to the infinite possibility game
Ulcious	Posted - 2008.06.12 13:10:00 - [43] You do know you can get a rohk with 170 sensor str, max lock range & 250km effective fighting range.... Most falcons would leave after first volly, 1 missed jamm = 4 vollys = dead falcon. Tried & tested
Grimpak Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:24:00 - [44] Edited by: Grimpak on 12/06/2008 14:28:51 Originally by: Tamoko Edited by: Tamoko on 12/06/2008 12:24:08 Originally by: Streikeer all good info. what's the best Gallente ship for this purpose? Arazu? Lachesis? Keres? A single ECCM on an Arazu or Lachesis yields about 50 ECCM strength. A triple-amped falcon has about a 50% chance of missing every twenty seconds if he's got two gallente racials. Less if he's got some off-race or multispecs to slam down on you, too. A second ECCM sets you around 95 ECCM. Same falcon now has a 72% chance of missing with two racials. Suddenly his life expectancy just got real short. ... As for best ship for making the kill, I'm going to go with ECCMed Megathron (gallente only). Though the arazu probably stands a better chance of disabling the falcon. however such arazu with such a specific fit is pretty much useless vs anything else. to make sure that such falcon is pretty much out of fight, you need 3 damps. many falcons use SB, wich gives him a targeting range of 240km. 3 damps on the arazu, means that the falcon gets a max targeting range of 46km, wich means that for the arazu is still failable (not much but still...), since the optimal for damps is 42 with lvl4 skills and no range rigs, nevermind the fact that you need to be at that range aswell to be damn sure that the damps will hit. now for the arazu setup, an ECCM on the arazu, with a 3damp + sensor booster + mwd setup, means that you don't have space for a warp jammer, meaning that unless you want to make the arazu useless for a short period of time, you will need at least another ship to do the tackling job, and even so, a smart falcon pilot always packs a multispec for such problems, meaning he can just jam the tackler and warp away to another place. swapping the SB for another ECCM also gives you even more strength vs the falcon's jammers, but then again, unless you drop the mwd or one of the damps, you're restricted to a 140km range bracket, wich means that even you succeed in triple dampen the falcon at such range, you need to be at at 140km range max, while the falcon is able to be at 240km range and have jammers that are at 100% at 213km range. in sum, for an arazu to be able to counter a falcon, it needs pretty much a setup that will only be really useful against that ship, and even so, it's all just a matter of luck. my advice? to counter a falcon, the rook is better due to the highest sensor str of all non-cap ships. or you can bring your own falcon. as for an arazu vs rook, the same problem persists, with the addon that the rook can target 12km further (3 damps brings a SB'ed rook down to 58km), and it actually has some firepower.
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Crellion Are you thick or are you just pretending to be? Go wash dishes :) I don't see any arguments. Atleast try using some.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:45:00 - [46] Hmmm, everyone's forgotten one very easy, and very evil, counter to any E-war ships from range. Passive targeters. Falcon's fleet says 'XYZ is targeting me' so the falcon prepars to jam that target... meanwhile the Tempest sitting there targeting no one has the Falcon bracketed and is just waiting for the Fleet Comm to say 'engage'... I've seen more than a fair share of damp-lachs, Rooks, falcs, ect vanish within 1 second of engagement because they thought no one had them lit up.
bloomich Out Siders	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Ulcious You do know you can get a rohk with 170 sensor str, max lock range & 250km effective fighting range.... Most falcons would leave after first volly, 1 missed jamm = 4 vollys = dead falcon. Tried & tested Most battleships can hit a falcon. Falcons tend to focus on jamming turret ships, which means cruise ravens in a fleet fight are really good as almost everybody ignores them till last. Yeah it sounds stupid but ravens are basically anti-support and not shooting primaries. If more people use ravens that can hit a 200km+ falcon in 10 seconds with speed rigged missiles, then there would be no issue at all. Before rigs, ravens were a joke in fleet fights. Things have changed and rigged ravens are now damm good in fleet fights.
Ulcious	Posted - 2008.06.12 14:56:00 - [48] Originally by: bloomich Originally by: Ulcious You do know you can get a rohk with 170 sensor str, max lock range & 250km effective fighting range.... Most falcons would leave after first volly, 1 missed jamm = 4 vollys = dead falcon. Tried & tested Most battleships can hit a falcon. Falcons tend to focus on jamming turret ships, which means cruise ravens in a fleet fight are really good as almost everybody ignores them till last. Yeah it sounds stupid but ravens are basically anti-support and not shooting primaries. If more people use ravens that can hit a 200km+ falcon in 10 seconds with speed rigged missiles, then there would be no issue at all. Before rigs, ravens were a joke in fleet fights. Things have changed and rigged ravens are now damm good in fleet fights. Falcons arnt really that much of a problem in fleet fights, they can be insta popped if to close to anything.. Its the 240km ones which can only be hit by rokhs and others that are the problem, and those falcons usually jamm the ppl who are shooting at them first. An instant damage 250km rokh thats incredibly harder to jamm is vastly supior @ anti-falcon duty. Moreso in smaller gangs as @ 250km sniper you will be operating in the falcons falloff (hard to reach 250km Optimal with t2 racials).
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:18:00 - [49] Ferox - Anti ECM sniper 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 2x Reactor Control Unit 2x Sensor Booster II (range) 2x Tracking Computer II (range) Gravimetric ECCM II 6x 250mm Railgun II (Spike) 3x Hybrid Locus Coordinator (2mil a piece VERY cost effective rig) Max skills: 182.58km locking range 178+15km firing range with 160 dps Sensor Strength of 37.5 Wayyyyy cheaper to replace than an Eagle ;) __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.06.12 15:22:00 - [50] Stealth Bombers are nasty Falcon killers if you setup properly: 2x Ballistic Control unit II Warp Disruptor (best named) Sensor Booster II (resolution script) 2x ECCM (best named) 3x Malkuth Cruise Improved Cloaking II 71.9 Sensor Strength Uncloak - lock, scram, fire away. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.

Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.12 16:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Mister Xerox Hmmm, everyone's forgotten one very easy, and very evil, counter to any E-war ships from range. Passive targeters. Falcon's fleet says 'XYZ is targeting me' so the falcon prepars to jam that target... meanwhile the Tempest sitting there targeting no one has the Falcon bracketed and is just waiting for the Fleet Comm to say 'engage'... I've seen more than a fair share of damp-lachs, Rooks, falcs, ect vanish within 1 second of engagement because they thought no one had them lit up. Oh you had to go and tell them, you SOB. You just couldn't keep it quiet, could you? You just made the list, mister. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Merroki	Posted - 2008.06.12 19:29:00 - [52] Originally by: Omarvelous Stealth Bombers are nasty Falcon killers if you setup properly: 2x Ballistic Control unit II Warp Disruptor (best named) Sensor Booster II (resolution script) 2x ECCM (best named) 3x Malkuth Cruise Improved Cloaking II 71.9 Sensor Strength Uncloak - lock, scram, fire away. Like you'll ever get a lock with 250 scan res before they warp off..
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.12 19:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Merroki Like you'll ever get a lock with 250 scan res before they warp off.. Actually, there's a really really good chance that he'll just sit there and devote a jammer to you when one comes available. Last night, I killed a Falcon, if you can believe that! Holy crap, nerf <Stiletto>! -Liang
Stefan F Enrave Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.12 20:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Mister Xerox Hmmm, everyone's forgotten one very easy, and very evil, counter to any E-war ships from range. Passive targeters. Falcon's fleet says 'XYZ is targeting me' so the falcon prepars to jam that target... meanwhile the Tempest sitting there targeting no one has the Falcon bracketed and is just waiting for the Fleet Comm to say 'engage'... I've seen more than a fair share of damp-lachs, Rooks, falcs, ect vanish within 1 second of engagement because they thought no one had them lit up. You get 5s to lock and kill me, after that i'm recloaked mwd'ing away waiting for the ecm cycle to end, before i repeat the cycle.
supr3m3justic3 ACE'S OVER 8'S The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.06.12 23:17:00 - [55] blaster rokh with nuets, web, point, eccm or back up array!
Mortuus Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.06.13 05:43:00 - [56] Nano recon with ECCM. Occassus Republica <3
Rabbit Pearl Gemini Technologies	Posted - 2008.06.13 11:14:00 - [57] Surprised no one mentioned, StealthBomber w/ FoF's. Small, Not something many people notice. And if you happen to damp him before a jam goes off. May not kill it, but it will certainly get rid of it.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.06.13 11:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Stefan F Originally by: Mister Xerox Hmmm, everyone's forgotten one very easy, and very evil, counter to any E-war ships from range. Passive targeters. Falcon's fleet says 'XYZ is targeting me' so the falcon prepars to jam that target... meanwhile the Tempest sitting there targeting no one has the Falcon bracketed and is just waiting for the Fleet Comm to say 'engage'... I've seen more than a fair share of damp-lachs, Rooks, falcs, ect vanish within 1 second of engagement because they thought no one had them lit up. You get 5s to lock and kill me, after that i'm recloaked mwd'ing away waiting for the ecm cycle to end, before i repeat the cycle. Uhhhh... No? I already have you locked, and I'm just sitting there waiting for one side or the other to engage.. hell, I can even be locking up the rest of the combat group and lobbing drones/cruise/whatever at them so they think I'm actually in the fight. The wonderful thing about passive targeters is that the person locked has no clue (it only works on one target per passive targeter) until you actually aggress. 2x Tempests w/ 1400mm Arties = dead falcon in 1 salvo, or at most 2 but it'll probably try to GTFO in the 6 seconds before the second volley arrives. Oh, and another thing... a neutral with a passive targeter can lock a Falcon/Bomber/whatever... and it can't recloak, even though they don't see who has them locked.
Jaketh Ivanes 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.06.13 11:31:00 - [59] I havn't read any reply, so if this is already said, sorry . If I knew I would meet a rook/Falcon, i would fit a lot of ECCM and a passive targeter. That way, the Rook/Falcon would think he got me jammed and suddenly he would take massive damage. Only problem is surviving the Falcon/Rook's friends.
Stefan F Enrave Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.13 11:32:00 - [60] Edited by: Stefan F on 13/06/2008 11:34:52 Edited by: Stefan F on 13/06/2008 11:32:35 @xerox Give me one reason why i should sit there uncloaked before the game starts. Any decent falcon pilot will show up late, just like all other force recons, to give the enemy a false impression of a winnable fight. If you ever have been into 0.0 blobfights you would have known that there also is no "waiting before one side fires", only thing remotely resembling to that is jumping a fleet into a hostile system and hold your jumpcloaks untill everyone has loaded grid. Even then, you can't target **** because you are either cloaked yourself or cant see the cloaked ships that just jumped through the gate.



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