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The Jamyl Sarum story line - what a mess up!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Nuyan Zahedi PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:33:00 - [151] Actually. I'm possibly quite alright with the storyline. I also liked the CCP answers in here. I don't think news needs to explain everything. I like the vagueness and mystery in EVE, that you're often not sure what really happened and that's there much more going on in the background. It's the same in the real world (arguably on a smaller scale though), where if you read news-articles you often still don't know what - really - is going on and that it sometimes doesn't even make much sense. That the rise of Tibus Heth, the return of Jamyl Sarum and support for her from other Heirs doesn't make any sense to us, doesn't make it impossible. There's much more behind it of which the masses of EVE (including us capsuleers) will probably never know about. That CCP is using a novel to explain that to us players (behind the characters) is quite a sensible thing to do. What I'm more concerned about is that I really hope there aren't too much Jovians/Dark Jovians involved. And not too much 'unreal' mystical things with the Elders and Jamyl Sarum's attack on that Matari fleet. I would be rather disappointed if the main-characters behind Empyrean Age are somehow 'controlled' by Jovians. -- My blog
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:36:00 - [152] Originally by: Hugh Ruka It was also pointed somewhere else the the Minmatar Elders also died during the backstory some time ago with no clone backup. Yet they suddenly appeared again. However I do not follow the RP side of things, I just picked that up on the forums. Seems Jamyl Sarum is not the only zombie in the game ... The Elders were reported killed just before the Uprising. This would pre-date cloning technology outside the Jove Empire / Society / Spawning Pit. It could be that those were not the Elders and that there was indeed another Jove team at work that may have save them before the whole place went to hell (ref: Theodicy). Or indeed we may not be talking about the same Elders, it is a position as much as a person. Like the phrase "The King is dead, long live the King!". The Elders are surrounded with mystery, maybe they were somehow saved / cloned / revived by the Jove (Deus ex machina anyone?). Maybe they were reborn or reincarnated like an Intaki Dalai Llama. Maybe they are a new group of Elders risen to power who have been waiting just beyond the edge of the Great Wildlands for the right time to rise. Not quite the same as the Jamyl Sarum thing. There are still a host of reasons that could be behind all this. She faked her death. She was brought back by God (who is in fact the leader of a Dark Jove Cabal and the Amarr & Minmatar are just unwitting foot soldiers in a war far greater than they imagine). Perhaps the Empire is so desperate that they are after a leader that wins battles. After all the last major Imperial fleet action at Vak'Atioth didn't go too well. Join Kinda'Shujaa
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:52:00 - [153] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Hell, if you knew that you were going to have to commit ritual suicide in front of people you wouldn't give a toss about the purtity of your flesh, you would have 30 Jump Clones dotted all over 0.0 as there is nothing to lose. If the other Ritual Suiciders didn't do the same then they deserved to be bio-massed for stupidty. As a point, it should be impossible to do that - the image of the brain at the exact moment of death is (according to the backstory) all but impossible except in a pod. The slightest misalignment results in the destruction of the subject's cortex without a usable image. However, perhaps the angle is wrong? There is a chronicle which has someone's clone being used for an assassination without him being in it... By having someone else's brain in a copy of Sarum's body commit suicide she could maintain some level of deniability and survive the experience. Her flesh would remain pure (though there would certainly be theological arguments as to whether to have a copy taken was truly the heresy there). There is also the possibility that the parties behind this war, those who perhaps influenced Alexander Noir to kick the whole thing off, have worked something which makes it seem like a true ressurection... -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.06.14 11:01:00 - [154] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Holy crap, that's an awesome strategy. I mean, until you posted that, I totally thought I won. Congrats. You just won a 'I argued with a geek on the internet, went all emo on him and all I got was this stupid T-shirt' T-shirt.
Tradinea	Posted - 2008.06.14 11:16:00 - [155] Lol, RPer rage.
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.06.14 12:04:00 - [156] Umm, why can't the Jamyl that ritually suicided have been a clone, and the reappeared one be the original that has been hiding out all along? The trick may have occurred long ago. The original Jamyl didn't want to upset the applecart, but was forced to act by the Elder's fleet.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.06.14 13:23:00 - [157] Originally by: Akita T post dissection Your responses are all valid (well, except for the part about the Gallente election) but your missing the point. People will accept almost anything with the right amount of PR honey applied, but there hasn't been any. The news simply reports that these things have happened, not how the public have been placated. Of course we can assume PR went on in the background, and this is why the empires aren't tearing themselves apart in civil war much as they should at this time. Problem is the capsuleers have been ignored when it comes to this PR even though many of us are deciding whether to fight for these leaders. CVA are left confused over Jamyl's sudden acceptance. Fourth District cannot abide Heth's sudden rise to power. This is a game that is designed around us, however it seems we are being firmly ignored to ensure the plot continues at the expected pace. I'd just like CCP to fill us in on some of the reasons why these things have happened. Many roleplayers need to be able to justify things from their characters point of view and they can't do so when such major changes take place with so little explanation. I can understand the need to accelerate the timeline, but now that things have settled down a little some news-stories to bring us up to speed on why these leaders are being accepted by their people would be most helpful. Yes, I'm buying the book, but mine and other peoples characters need to know how to react to these events now, not after the 19th. They also need to know when a piece of prime fiction is ret-conned and not be left to guess as to what is still true and what isn't. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sqalevon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.14 16:39:00 - [158] Istvaan, Won't you agree that CCP has been taking quite some liberties regarding their own storyline in recent events? Liberties wich are theirs to take. But still leave alot of people with a wierd feeling. I'm as curious as you as how this all came to be, but still feel a bit cheated.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.14 22:43:00 - [159] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=797431 Made a separate thread since not really talking about the Amarr issue anymore. :) -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Zimarla Gradient	Posted - 2008.06.15 02:54:00 - [160] Originally by: CCP RyanD Of course they'll probably contort their work more than might be strictly necessary to avoid excessive retcons, but that's because I think they care as much about trying to be consistent with what has gone before as it is possible for them to be. I'd appreciate a halfway attempt at a retcon as opposed to not having any decent explanation. At least with a retcon, you get a reason. Right now, we have no reason whatsoever.

Tomahawk Bliss The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.06.15 04:20:00 - [161] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 15/06/2008 04:26:34 Originally by: fuze Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Holy crap, that's an awesome strategy. I mean, until you posted that, I totally thought I won. Congrats. You just won a 'I argued with a geek on the internet, went all emo on him and all I got was this stupid T-shirt' T-shirt.
Talsha Talamar Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:34:00 - [162] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 15/06/2008 12:33:48 Quote: "On behalf of Yonis Ardishapur, Uriam Kador, Articio Kor-Azor and Catiz Tash-Murkon, we, the anointed Heirs of the Great Houses of the Empire, do hereby jointly and individually name and nominate Jamyl Sarum as our preferred heir to the Imperial Throne and pledge our undying fealty to her and her holy cause." Well chaps... you know what you have to do... then..
Ailen Jan	Posted - 2008.06.15 17:51:00 - [163] Originally by: Talsha Talamar Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 15/06/2008 12:33:48 Quote: "On behalf of Yonis Ardishapur, Uriam Kador, Articio Kor-Azor and Catiz Tash-Murkon, we, the anointed Heirs of the Great Houses of the Empire, do hereby jointly and individually name and nominate Jamyl Sarum as our preferred heir to the Imperial Throne and pledge our undying fealty to her and her holy cause." Well chaps... you know what you have to do... then.. /me goes around the heirs with a silver platter ladden with steak knifes.. happy suicide you idiots
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.16 00:37:00 - [164] Originally by: Niko medes can only say Edheudanni? however you spell that damn races name.. You're just going to do yourself a favor and forget that word. You'll thank me once you've done so.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.16 00:53:00 - [165] Originally by: Hurs Sokira Originally by: Pezzle This is unacceptable. I should not have to purchase a book to understand the events transpiring right now in a game I am playing right now. Eve is not about the book sales. Eve is internet spaceships and the backstory of internet spaceships fighting each other. What is ironic is that CCP appeared to shoot itself in the foot not once, but twice. First, they released "hokey" and "improbable" plot storylines as newsitems and let people to get an idea of quality and believability of those very same storylines in the book. Suffice it to say, judging from the reaction, people that planned to buy the book now will not do so. Secondly, by discarding established background by introducing "fresh and exciting", overly dramatic (and completely unnecessary) massive changes in political landscape, they also alienated large portion of in-game community, those who got engaged into background story of EVE and represent perhaps most loyal subscribers. I somehow doubt that the "quality" of the new "style" will attract many new long-term customers to compensate for the amount of long-term players that quit or suspended subscription. It's more that you and the others (yes I know CAIN's RP background and so forth sO I know what you and the others are likely going through) are unable to fathom how the State would let someone like Heth rise to power, without realizing several things: 1. You're a pod pilot. You're disconnected from the planetside populace as much as some blueblood born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Look at whats been going on in the State over the last weeks, months, years. 2. Revolts by workers had been happening, some of which were successful, others were not. Heth's was not only successful, but through some means, he gained legal standing power in the State's system due to it (CEO of CC). 3. Other than Otro, the CEOs of the megacorps were likely complete ******s to their workers, and saw Heth's rise as something they'd have to go along with, or risk their workers outright revolting on too large a scale to put down without a civil war breaking out. 4. Heth's popularity and ultra-patriotism would likely sit well with the patriot faction bigwigs, who are probably likely to be very extreme due to knowing their necks would never be on the frontlines. 5. Skillful planning involving Heth puts the patriot faction n the front as far as power balances go. Coupled with his crazy popularity among the people, Zainou, KK Corp and others put him 'in charge' and give him the clout needed to loom over the other megacorps and draw them into the patriot faction's way of doing things. 6. The only* person that had any chance in hell of cutting off Heth's rise to power and his love among the Caldari, Otro Gaurishi, was murdered at a peace summit he himself called with the Gallente, by a high ranking Gallente official. 7. Heth doesn't like the Gallente, or trust them, so he builds up the military via conscription, but that alone is not an act of war, the patriots in general favor a strong military force. 8. Elder fleet curb stomps CONCORD in Yulai, disabling their ability to act. Heth sees this as quite possibly the biggest opportunity that will ever exist to take back the Caldari homeworld, and does so. 9. The once small extreme-wing of the Patriot faction is likely growing now due to Heth's views, and that the impossible, taking back a stolen homeworld, has happened. Personally, I prefer that over the boring "lets hold hands and be friends" crap that simply existed in far too large a quantity in the State given the acts of the Gallente against them both in the past for the first war, and in recent weeks/months.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.16 00:59:00 - [166] Originally by: Rodj Blake If the Jamyl plot were transplanted into the real world, we'd have something along these lines: The war in Iraq takes a turn for the worse. Onoes! Mahdi Army paratroopers are landing in New York! George W Bush goes missing. Ronald Reagan takes his old desk in the Oval Office, says "You ain't seen nothin' yet" and nukes Basra. The only people to comment on this are Barack Obama and John McCain who say "Reagan for President!", even though he's ineligable. And dead. TBH, I've seen better plots in a Jeffrey Archer novel. And unless the Congress/SCOTUS stepped in and told zombie Jamyl Reagan they can't be president, guess what? We have a 3rd term Reagan president.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.16 01:02:00 - [167] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Hugh Ruka It was also pointed somewhere else the the Minmatar Elders also died during the backstory some time ago with no clone backup. Yet they suddenly appeared again. However I do not follow the RP side of things, I just picked that up on the forums. Seems Jamyl Sarum is not the only zombie in the game ... The Elders were reported killed just before the Uprising. This would pre-date cloning technology outside the Jove Empire / Society / Spawning Pit. I only remember reading that some of the Elders were killed, not all of them. You are talking about Theodicy right? The same work that contains a race that is best deleted from memory?
Xenea	Posted - 2008.06.16 02:37:00 - [168] Originally by: Garreck If there was a previous precident for Amarrians just throwing so much tradition right out the window in such a short period of time, I don't think there would be such complaints. This isn't about the result: we can roleplay the result and that's fine. It'll be exciting. It's about how poor the introduction of this new plot is. In a matter of days we have Jamyl blow back into the picture and be endorsed as the new emperor by the heirs with almost no mention what-so-ever of anybody in a position of power wondering why she's alive in the first place and why she should be even considered for empress at all. Nope...we just skip right to "yay, our savior! take the throne!" The Moral Reforms happened in a very short period of time. There can only have been 3-4 Emperors elected since this time, as the purpose of the Reforms was to create a more stable succession process and ensure the loyalty of the Heirs with their very life. This 3-4 estimate includes Heidrean and Doriam. As to the current plot, I am equally baffled but naturally unconcerned -- I am a subject of His Majesty King Khanid II, respectful of Grand Master Horm, and distrustful of the Theology Council.
Zimarla Gradient	Posted - 2008.06.16 02:39:00 - [169] Originally by: Thorradin I only remember reading that some of the Elders were killed, not all of them. You are talking about Theodicy right? The same work that contains a race that is best deleted from memory? Unfortunately, since TonyG wrote Theodicy, we're probably going to see more of the same stupid stuff.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.16 02:48:00 - [170] Edited by: Eventy One on 16/06/2008 02:50:31 Originally by: Zimarla Unfortunately, since TonyG wrote Theodicy, we're probably going to see more of the same stupid stuff. I actually liked Theodicy quite a bit, therefore I like TonyG. The problem isn't TonyG. The problem is: What exactly is the framework for RPing? It should be the game itself as many have pointed out. TonyG and the other writers have to influence the story in game first and foremost. Novels and everything else is built around that framework rather than compete with it. But I suspect that the creative juices are flowing in CCP again, and the writers, and perhaps the company are mixing up what is the appropriate way developing the framework vs. telling a story. The framework is the game. All else is window dressing (largely incidental).

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2008.06.16 03:22:00 - [171] My experience as a slave of 20 years under both Amarr and Caldar bastards has been that religious beliefs give way far to easily to selfish pragmatism. If you were the headless council of the Amarr empire, looking at a universe full of villains spoiling for a fight, then lo and behold here comes a hero of action - would you stick to your traditions and watch the whole Amarr empire go the way of the Atioth "invasion" fleet? Or would you consider that just this once it might be time to admit that perhaps the public competition for the throne wasn't such a good idea, and that Jamyl could have earned her way to the throne? All of you who are faithful followers of the Church, you poor sheep! You will quickly realise that the religious traditions set up by your empire have merely been scaffolding and crutches to support the weak. That scaffolding is about to be burned away in the fire of Matari vengeance. Do you know what you believe? Do you believe what you know?
Elektrea SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.06.16 04:50:00 - [172] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Clones Amarr nobility is not allowed to use clone technology. God's Flesh may not be copied. It's heresy. "Do as I say, not as I do" That quote, everyone uses in religion Happy HOur Minning and Industry
Tyrrax Thorrk Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.06.18 13:48:00 - [173] I'm disappointed in you Hardin, if you were present you'd know as well as I do about the Sarum forces that invaded the suicide ceremony, and then just left without really doing anything. Obviously a distraction to allow Jamyl to slip away off her battleship and aboard one of theirs. Were you afk during the ceremony or something ? Jamyl was never really dead, and frankly you're coming across as a bit of a gullible fool for not piecing all this together years ago. There's been plenty of hints in prime fiction over the years about Jamyl still being alive too...
Elsebeth Rhiannon Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.18 14:53:00 - [174] Jamyl being alive can be seen as established (indeed it's been one of the favorite IC conspiracy theories among the Minnies for years :P). I still don't like the way CCP is making her Empress, however, without practically any loyalist opposition or squabbling about the procedure or anything. It feels like force-feeding it to the players, to be honest. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Ethaet Aliastra	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:06:00 - [175] Does anyone care? This is all RPer stuff and doersn't affect 98% of players in any way other than selling ships and modules to RPers. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:17:00 - [176] Originally by: Ethaet Does anyone care? This is all RPer stuff and doersn't affect 98% of players in any way other than selling ships and modules to RPers. Considering that this thread has reached 6 pages, I'd say that very many people care. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8)
Zanzaa	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:18:00 - [177] RP is the backbone of any MMO. RP & Fun. =============================== /me points at Mission runners. /me laughs. /me points.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:20:00 - [178] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk There's been plenty of hints in prime fiction over the years about Jamyl still being alive too... For the benefit of the newcomers to Eve PF, perhaps you'd care to provide links to some of these hints? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Major Death Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:21:00 - [179] Edited by: Major Death on 18/06/2008 15:23:50 My guess for the next headline, DEUS EX MACHINA STIKES AGAIN Take a tip from a long time GM/DM, players hate when they are forced down a story arc, especially if that arc tramples on existing characters and stories. O.O.C. I should also like to say that the current RP events are very unfair on Amarr RP'ers. My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!'
Arderich Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen A.R.K.	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:50:00 - [180] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk There's been plenty of hints in prime fiction over the years about Jamyl still being alive too... For the benefit of the newcomers to Eve PF, perhaps you'd care to provide links to some of these hints? hint This doesn't mean I like the way of her return.



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