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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tomahawk Bliss
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:16:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Rodj Blake
Unexpected twists and turns are indeed good. But they need to be believable, and right now this is anything but.
your opinion.
the folks who made the Amarr up are the folks who created this plot. therefore it is correct with the original ideology of the Amarr world.
Its okay to not like it, but to claim its unbelievable is to say that you know better what the empire, Sarum and the other heirs would do in this situation.
I hate to disagree with you guys, Hardin especially, but you are solid wrong that the plot isn't plausible and while we could argue in circle all day about feudalism, the power of Sarum to hide, who knew and who didn't, the strength of the Imperial fleet and the importance of Tradition vs. realistic power grabbing...there is no point.
the NPC's Psychological make up and motivations are known to CCP and CCP only. These NPCs made choices completely followed the guidelines of said makeup as the animators (CCP) were the ones who did it. Its not like someone hacked the game and took over Sarum during downtime and changed this, this was planned.
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:20:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
the folks who made the Amarr up are the folks who created this plot. therefore it is correct with the original ideology of the Amarr world.
We won't actually be able to say this until we read the novel.
I can accept we need to force some storyline issues to provide the novel room to contribute. My problem is that these 'forced' stories are out of line with much Amarrian tradition.
I think that this business with Lady Sarum ignores the business with Khanid. That is going to be hard to reconcile unless Tony also saw that conflict. We'll see when the novel comes out.
Until then, its not exactly clear that this is all consistent with the Amarr world. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:35:00 -
[93]
The difference between a believable unexpected twist and the farce that CCP fabricated is quite clear. When a movie has an unexpected twist (e.g. Usual Suspects, The Prestige...etc), it is believable when the plot leading up to it contains clues without giving you the complete picture. Thus if you go back and watch the movie you will find clues that lead to the eventual conclusion and you find yourself saying "aaaaaaaah i see now"
With CCP, they had no proper build up or clues that would lead us to this point. Hence it makes it a farce and not an unexpected twist |
Hardin
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:41:00 -
[94]
Well I for one am going to give CCP the benefit of the doubt now!
And I will be buying the book  |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:45:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Becq Starforged on 13/06/2008 21:45:53
What have either Sarum or Khanid (or any other heirs) done to promote the interests of the Empire? Have they conquered anything at all? Clearly, Aralis should be declared heir to the newly made 'House Aralis', and should be made Emperor. Not only has he not broken succession law, he's expanded Amarrian control into another region. 
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:45:00 -
[96]
I'm not an amarrian RPer and thus am not too much into the amarrian PF and background. But I think I know how Hardin feels. (Some stuff about minnie RP follows, scroll down to skip it)
The story leading to EA was awesome for us minnies. Seriously. Vote of no confidence in Midular, parliament dissolved, re-elections, government suddenly vanishes, what in space! We had the most intense RP session I had in a long time over this. Our characters getting a crisis over it, giving words of faith to each other - it was awesome. Seriosuly, absolutely awesome.
And the possibilities were endless. Midular doing an awesome speech and everyone uniting behind her. Shakor taking power. Either one seizing power, ignoring the laws. Some third party winning mysteriously in the elections, or seizing power against laws. The Empire invading in our difficult times and the Fleet taking over power. So many possibilities.
And then a mysterious Elder fleet shows up. "Hi! Didn't expect us? Your bad." Why thanks. Yet another deus ex machina, something pseudo-mysterious to replace awesome possibility of dark realistic stories.
That really killed all the awesome atmosphere built up with the news stories.
(End of minnie RP stuff)
We're still hoping for a cool end in this. The story line can be saved. I think the same is true for the Amarr storyline. There are Lots of possibilities to save the arc that does not involve "stuff it, that's what we want."
But in general, I think the main problem here is that a lot of us RPers love the EVE backstory because it's not an epic "Illuminati controlling everything and playing everyone against each other" type of story with five dei ex machinae per day, but because it's a dark place, with lots of "normal" stories interacting, and no one really being in control or to be blamed.
I'm afraid the EVE story is moving away from that more and more.
And that is sad. |
Steph Wing
Electro Fuels
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:53:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Terror Rising
Surely raising from the dead and coming to save the day would be an easy concept thing for Amarrians to accept ... No?
10/10, nicely done.
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Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:12:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/06/2008 22:12:54
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/06/2008 22:12:40
Originally by: Steph Wing
Originally by: Terror Rising
Surely raising from the dead and coming to save the day would be an easy concept thing for Amarrians to accept ... No?
10/10, nicely done.
Utter fail.
Drawing a parallel between christian and amarr faith,
simply shows a lack of understanding on several very basic levels.
10/10 for a nice troll though :)
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:20:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/06/2008 22:12:54
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 13/06/2008 22:12:40
Originally by: Steph Wing
Originally by: Terror Rising
Surely raising from the dead and coming to save the day would be an easy concept thing for Amarrians to accept ... No?
10/10, nicely done.
Utter fail.
Drawing a parallel between christian and amarr faith,
simply shows a lack of understanding on several very basic levels.
10/10 for a nice troll though :)
So, are you trying to tell me that the Amarr are NOT descended from some Christian sect/group/whatever?
Speaking of backstory, can the map please not have that marker saying that Black Rise is a big empty bit of nothingness anymore?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:26:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/06/2008 22:26:44
Originally by: Hardin
Well I for one am going to give CCP the benefit of the doubt now!
And I will be buying the book
Hardin, I was almost spooked by how much I agreed with your argumentation on this topic...
...up until the point where a CCP employee responded to the thread.
You said earlier in the thread:
"I just feel slight used that us RPers will end up having to buy a book to explain WTF is happening in a game which I already pay ú38 a month for!" - Hardin
and
"What I am 'whinging' about is ... Why should we have to buy a novel to get this explanation?" - Hardin
Seems you suddenly changed your mind after the CCP dev post and now agree that it is OK to have to spend extra money to follow the main storyline?
I can not agree at all. And I find the sudden change in mind of yours slightly worrying. Sorry.
best regards,
VV
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
OutofSight
United Space Republic
Malice.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:27:00 -
[101]
In a universe where people regulalry cheat death, your telling me this storyline is not at all believable?
In times of War the law falls silent...
OutofSight, OutofMind |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:27:00 -
[102]
Hate to troll.........
But was this thread just a giant add for the book coming out?
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Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:31:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 13/06/2008 22:32:00
Originally by: Victor Vision
...stuff...
Hardin will need to speak for himself, but I would guess that these two quotes had something to do with his newly refound patience: Originally by: CCP RyanD
these boards will be full of spoilers for people who can't get it immediately.
Originally by: CCP RyanD
The question of her legitimacy will be a big one in the eyes of the Amarr and the Amarr roleplayers.
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Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:38:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 13/06/2008 22:38:28
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: Victor Vision
...stuff...
Hardin will need to speak for himself, but I would guess that these two quotes ...
You are right, Hardin will need to speak for himself.
Usually I would not mind a player changing his mind so quickly after a dev post.
But I am worried to see this kind of behaviour in a CSM delegate.
Especially one I voted for.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:44:00 -
[105]
ammar time line
Quote:
3805AD, The Conformists, a group within the unified catholic chruch, settles on Soekheviti
yes you can draw a line.
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fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:59:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Hardin
And I will be buying the book
Step 5. Profit! |
Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:50:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Gaius Kador on 13/06/2008 23:53:45
As of now, CCP broke my RP back.
Not buying the book for certain, Im a paying customer.
Edit: Upheaval is allright, I understand, oh the drama, but im going to throw all my toys out and waaaaaagh unless the plot is revealed by CCP in game.
Until then I can wait, like im used to.
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Hurs Sokira
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:50:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hardin
I shall of course seek out Ginger/Tony Gonzales next week and waterboard them until I get an explanation j/k
Please feel free to waterboard them on behalf of Caldari RPers as well. Tibus Heth and the whole Caldari "lol space-****" storyline is just as bad and unbelievable from our perspective as Sarum one for Amarr.
Simple explanation is not enough, actions are necessary. In response to a massive amount of criticism, Ginger has claimed that they have "highest standards for their writing". They better start rising those standards back quickly.
It appears that people who are reading the stories care about their quality much more than the people who are writing them.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:51:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Im a paying customer.
OH WOW!!! Isn't that like being on the board of directors or something? Because it sure sounds like it gives you a crap ton of authority.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:54:00 -
[110]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Im a paying customer.
OH WOW!!! Isn't that like being on the board of directors or something? Because it sure sounds like it gives you a crap ton of authority.
Your e-peen just got bigger.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:59:00 -
[111]
Ok? Was that your attempt at a non-sequitor? Because I gotta tell you, that comic strip was never funny.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Flamehaze Shana
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:01:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Danae Melios
Edited by: Danae Melios on 13/06/2008 20:17:19..Tibus Heth suddenly going from common laborer to CEO of megacorporations and now ruler of all of Caldari forces?
..The Elders were supposed to be dead, but managed to knock CONCORD out and run all over the Mandate and Empire... I suspect that Sarum is being aided by the same group that enabled Heth's rise to power...
I can demystify all this with four simple words.
What do you want?
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Hurs Sokira
Originally by: Hardin
I shall of course seek out Ginger/Tony Gonzales next week and waterboard them until I get an explanation j/k
Please feel free to waterboard them on behalf of Caldari RPers as well. Tibus Heth and the whole Caldari "lol space-****" storyline is just as bad and unbelievable from our perspective as Sarum one for Amarr.
Simple explanation is not enough, actions are necessary. In response to a massive amount of criticism, Ginger has claimed that they have "highest standards for their writing". They better start rising those standards back quickly.
It appears that people who are reading the stories care about their quality much more than the people who are writing them.
Wait what's unbelievable about a worker staging a successful uprising and playing on the problems he KNOWS exists for the masses? There are questions to answer on that but as soon as Heth got popular and CalCon started to drop in stock, I could very, VERY easily see KK corp and/or others throwing some heavy financial backing to him to get him into that CEO position, and move him further up until he was on their level, tipping the balance of power to the patriot faction, and then Heth taking it further and using that new power to further assert himself. The Caldari government is basically a capitalist government, and Heth's small revolt success may have looked to be a golden goose for people further up the line. Heth is the top dog now, and that may not have been the backer's intent, but if anythig, I think CCP understates numbers in EVE.
I mean, we have planet-wide riots, and the police only kill a few hundred people? Riots in a European country would have more deaths than that. Caldari Prime likly has a population in the billions. There should have been hundreds of thousands of possibly casulties, and MILLIONS from the Malkalken attack. If an Amarr Battleship has over 6000 crew (hands of a killer), then a Mothership alone would probably push 100,000 when fully staffed, and stations are bigger than most cities on earth. Losing a large chuck of one could cause a million deaths easily imo.
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Hurs Sokira
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:07:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Its not like someone hacked the game and took over Sarum during downtime and changed this, this was planned.
The point of massive amount of complaints is not that the storylines weren't planned. The point is that that the planning appears to be so poor and inconsistent with everything that was written by CCP before, that it does seem like someone hacked into CCP and highjacked everyone's RP and CCP's own Prime Fiction.
Compare latest writings with the original background chronicles (those explain the technology and society in EVE). It is like looking at two different games, one for adults and another one for children. Yes, in the past there were little news and only few chronicles, but those chronicles painted much more consistent, complex, multifaceted universe, as compared to the present flood of over-dramatized but shallow and amateurish "pulp fiction".
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Hurs Sokira
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:13:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Hurs Sokira on 14/06/2008 00:14:11
Originally by: Flamehaze Shana
I can demystify all this with four simple words.
What do you want?
Don't even mention B5 in this context. Can you possibly imagine the storylines that JMS could have written using the complex background of EVE? The fact that CCP threw away so many opportunities for complex, B5-style storylines in favor of the current farce, THAT stings the most, THAT is the charge that CCP is guilty of.
Just like for Gaius Kador, CCP completely broke my RP back as well.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:16:00 -
[116]
Ha, you talk about unbelievable, we have our biggest peace advocate park a Nyx in a station! For years the old dude was advocating peace until his mouth foamed, and then, from one moment to the other, he fails to find the break pedal on a Gallente mothership? Give me a break, the whole FW storyline is impossible to RP. You want clues to the rise of the new Empress? Hell, the Gallente didn't have any clues what so ever for years. Clueless is an understatement when it comes to RP in EVE!
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:22:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Victor Vision
You are right, Hardin will need to speak for himself.
Usually I would not mind a player changing his mind so quickly after a dev post.
But I am worried to see this kind of behaviour in a CSM delegate.
Especially one I voted for.
I doubt he has so much changed his mind as he has accepted that he needs more information and that he will need to wait until he has it before persuing the issue further.
I would say that is a good thing for a CSM rep.
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Niko medes
Dark Dominion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:28:00 -
[118]
can only say Edheudanni?
however you spell that damn races name..
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Pezzle
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:36:00 -
[119]
I can deal with hokey or improbable plots as long as they are fleshed out in such a way that engages interest. What we have here is a page or two being pulled out of every other chapter of a book. Now we are supposed to make sense of it. Right now we are supposed to react to it and make it a part of our experience.
This is unacceptable. I should not have to purchase a book to understand the events transpiring right now in a game I am playing right now. Eve is not about the book sales. Eve is internet spaceships and the backstory of internet spaceships fighting each other. You want to write books about EVE, great! They should not be vital to the happenings in the game. I have no interest in the EVE book (no offense) much as I have no interest in WoW books or Mechwarrior books etc.
This is a game that lives online, do not force another media upon us as essential in our understanding. The core of this game must be given life through this site or in the game itself, not in a novel that is not yet available!
All of that accounted for, I am perfectly capable of playing this game without the need for those increasingly rare breadcrumbs. We shall see if game activity can actually attract the attention of the powers that be.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:42:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
> The flesh of the divine cannot be cloned, so Jamyl should not be Empress.
What if the "person" who was noticed executing the ritual suicide WAS a clone, and the Jamyl we see now is the original one ? There could be several other similarly possible explanations, not all quite appeasing, but still.
Quote:
> The president of the Federation may serve only a single term so Foiritan should not be president.
Awww, come on, this is straight out of Star Wars III... emergency powers and such things 
Quote:
> The CEP has a firm and established system based on tradition and meritocracy, so Tibus Heth should not be the dictator of the State.
Well, it's also a slightly militaristic and honour-based society, so a sci-fi style revival of some sort of Shogunate is not completely out of the question.
Quote:
The Republic is headless so escapes criticism for now.
As we've been lead to understand, they pretty much decapitated themselves anyway.
All in all, it's the story of betrayal "for the good of the country", strong-willed individuals stooping to just about anything to get their way, and last but not least the thirst for absolute power.
Not the best plot twists, but pretty believable... afterall, they're still only human.
_
Vote on issue of mineral and moon material balance ! |
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