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The Jamyl Sarum story line - what a mess up!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Shaikar PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.14 00:51:00 - [121] Edited by: Shaikar on 14/06/2008 00:52:37 Originally by: Pezzle I should not have to purchase a book to understand the events transpiring right now in a game I am playing right now. Eve is not about the book sales. Eve is internet spaceships and the backstory of internet spaceships fighting each other. You want to write books about EVE, great! They should not be vital to the happenings in the game. I have no interest in the EVE book (no offense) much as I have no interest in WoW books or Mechwarrior books etc. This is a game that lives online, do not force another media upon us as essential in our understanding. The core of this game must be given life through this site or in the game itself, not in a novel that is not yet available! That is actually my sole real concern here. If I have to buy a book to figure out what is going on in game then you've done it wrong. The book should be an extra, an addon that gives the gory secret details no one would know IC, for example be from the perspective from the main characters. What is should not be though is needed to figure out the basics of what is going on. It may be a lot more news that will explain things is coming, if so, great. I'm willing to wait, after all there is no reason for everything to be explained in one go. Explaining the basics over time is fine, as long as it is done. I'm not willing to buy a book just to find out this basic knowledge though, that smacks of milking the cash cow so hard you're leaving friction burns.
Hurs Sokira Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.06.14 01:10:00 - [122] Originally by: Pezzle This is unacceptable. I should not have to purchase a book to understand the events transpiring right now in a game I am playing right now. Eve is not about the book sales. Eve is internet spaceships and the backstory of internet spaceships fighting each other. What is ironic is that CCP appeared to shoot itself in the foot not once, but twice. First, they released "hokey" and "improbable" plot storylines as newsitems and let people to get an idea of quality and believability of those very same storylines in the book. Suffice it to say, judging from the reaction, people that planned to buy the book now will not do so. Secondly, by discarding established background by introducing "fresh and exciting", overly dramatic (and completely unnecessary) massive changes in political landscape, they also alienated large portion of in-game community, those who got engaged into background story of EVE and represent perhaps most loyal subscribers. I somehow doubt that the "quality" of the new "style" will attract many new long-term customers to compensate for the amount of long-term players that quit or suspended subscription.
So SuiMe Entropy Systems Mining Co. Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.06.14 01:38:00 - [123] So CCP have stuffed over the RP'ers and gone their own way as usual. Why are you people surprised at this ? Just have a look at what they did to the RP alliances in FW. It will all die down to nothing soon once they have finished the planned story arcs, and we'll have another 2 year drought of no storylines at all.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 01:44:00 - [124] You are a gross trekkie, Hardin. Let me explain to you why you are angry. You are angry because you think prime fiction is something to be set in stone, and never changed. You are angry because according to prime fiction, the only way to elect an emperor is to go through the whole silly succession ritual where four out of five candidates gotta commit suicide. You are angry because this is suddenly not what is happening. You expected another succession ritual like the last one, but the CCP story staff threw you a curve ball by making something different happen, that you weren't anticipating. Well, in this case the fiction reflects real world history. Consider royal bloodlines, we've had those in the medieval ages and such - the only way you could become king is by being born into the bloodline. Then people figured out that if you killed every member of the bloodline, they could get to be kings! Whoa, that's going against tradition... but, it happened. Kings have faked death, gone into hiding, they have re-emerged with fresh armies, that sort of stuff. It's entirely plausible that the Jamyl NPC faked her death or cloned or whatever, but you're ****ed off because you can't just let yourself enjoy the story. You're coming off like a trekkie that has a geekout seizure if Captain Picard's neck rank thingies are on the wrong side of his space-uniform collar in scene 46 of episode 252 or whatever. Relax, step away from the forum ;\
Yakov Draken Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.06.14 01:55:00 - [125] Edited by: Yakov Draken on 14/06/2008 01:57:14 Wow great thread! The amarr thrown into confusion and ideological turmoil by recent events and forced to either question their deeply held beliefs or stick their heads in the sand and complain it doesn't make sense. If you had all stuck in character this would be great roleplay as well. So you foundations are shaken and your deepest held beliefs are being challenged - you didn't see this coming? It has been pregnant in the storyline awhile now and I can only assume you missed it because of your traditionalist, narrow minded, amarrian perspective. CVA and PIE are suffering some heavy blows ideologically right now as they represent the traditionalist branch of Amarr society that is threatening to fracture under immense pressure. Revolts, invasion, internal dissent, for along time no emperor - it is a mess. In game events are clearly showing that the tradiitonalist amarr approach is nothing more than long winded self justification for their failing social order - it is all made up mumbo jumbo. There is no god in heaven and no devil in hell. Did you really believe otherwise?
Arderich Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen A.R.K.	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:07:00 - [126] Quote: Like the good gardeners they are, I expect the story team will prune where needed, weed when necessary, and replant if required for growth. The gardener is always the murderer. In this case the murderer of the once so excellent background concept. I think there will be a lot of explanations needed. I am not saying this can not be sorted. Probably the answers are already in the book but I will not buy the book after the 'questionable' stuff I have seen so far. Maybe one day if others tell me it is good and worth reading. This a very unfortunate way to promote the novel. You should have come with some quality stuff as a teaser instead of this wild clutter. I hope to see some explanations soon - in game.
Khanid ll	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:15:00 - [127] Originally by: Niko medes can only say Edheudanni? When it turns out to be the Enheduanni, you, my friend, are going to look like a prophet! CCP has said, nothing is as it seems.
Pezzle Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:24:00 - [128] This is not a matter of trekky or some ideological break in the Empire for us so much as it is akin to something else. For those in the US it would be like waking up at the end of our current election cycle and finding out Abraham Lincoln was President. It confuses us because there has been no linking of here to there. We have no records, no background, no substance to weave our garments from. And if Lincoln were President again at the end of this year those who lived through the time would not need to buy books not yet available to know it were true or appreciate the experience.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:31:00 - [129] Luckily i dont care about RP - its just a minor annoyance. I will say though that the 'plot' over the downtime was pretty bloody hackneyd. * OH MY GOD THERES A HUGE FLEET KILLING EVERYONE 12 hours later * OH MY GOD THEVE BEEN BEATEN BACK TO EXACTLY WHERE THEY STARTED Also im not suprised in the slightest at CCP ramming storlylines down the RP communitys neck. After all as we are told many times. ITS CPC's GAME.... NOT OURS SKUNK
Jove X	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:31:00 - [130] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You are a gross trekkie, Hardin. Let me explain to you why you are angry. You are angry because you think prime fiction is something to be set in stone, and never changed. You are angry because according to prime fiction, the only way to elect an emperor is to go through the whole silly succession ritual where four out of five candidates gotta commit suicide. And you seem to be completly reading this thread selectively. That is not why he, and many others are **ed off. He and many others are *ed off for a number of reasons; because exceptionally important pieces of the game story are not being revealed in game, because the ramp up for the book is breaking the rules. Lets assume for moment that there are inconsistencies with the storyline - do you really believe most of the RPing community would fight to keep the 'problem bits'* around? No, they would be the first ones to advocate a clean up as evidenced in this thread. Here are just some of the inconsistencies. 1. Heirs that do not commit suicide are booted out of the Empire as heretics in disgrace 2. Heirs that do not commit suicide are made Empresses 3. Emperor is selected by trial 4. Emperor is acclaimed by co-competitors 5. All Heirs not selected die 6. All Heirs not selected live etc etc etc. This is hard to accept. Perhaps we have to wait for the book ... Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You are angry because this is suddenly not what is happening. You expected another succession ritual like the last one, but the CCP story staff threw you a curve ball by making something different happen, that you weren't anticipating. True, most of the Amarrian role players wait for the ritual. However, if no ritual happens, shouldn't the lead up to that story, suspend disbelief by the community that is paying attention to these things. So far, this storyline is not believable. Perhaps we wait for the book ... Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu It's entirely plausible that the Jamyl NPC faked her death or cloned or whatever, but you're **ed off because you can't just let yourself enjoy the story. All very reasonable. But how about the fact Khanid II did not fake his death! He needs no excuse. He refused to die because he saw himself as God's annointed, and the heir of a royal Amarrian house. If he still lives in exile as a loyal Amarrian, all of Lady Sarums excuses in the world, believable as they are, are in consistent with other story lines. You completely don't get why people are **ed off, and I suggest you read more of the thread before jumping in. (Just a suggestion)
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:40:00 - [131] Originally by: Jove X And you seem to be completly reading this thread selectively. That is not why he, and many others are **ed off. He and many others are **ed off for a number of reasons; because exceptionally important pieces of the game story are not being revealed in game, because the ramp up for the book is breaking the rules. Only one coming up with "rules" is you.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:48:00 - [132] Wow - quick skim through this thread reveals Roleplay suffers from exactly the same problems as all other threads in the forums. Namely the presence of MASSIVE FANBOIS who are so far up CCPS ass that CCP could institute a "even day - odd day" undock pass to all pilot to combat lag in jita, and the fanbois would STILL be telling ccp how ingenious they are. SKUNK
Jove X	Posted - 2008.06.14 02:48:00 - [133] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Only one coming up with "rules" is you. Brilliant counter argument! Didn't see that one coming. Can't possibly reason at your level.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:05:00 - [134] Originally by: Jove X Brilliant counter argument! Didn't see that one coming. Can't possibly reason at your level. No, I guess you really, really can't. I mean, if you could, you'd see how stupid your argument is. You're arguing for the plausibility of a fictional scenario. That's kind of like reading Alice in Wonderland and being terribly offended because there's no such thing as mushrooms that make you grow big in the real world. Why can't you just enjoy the story without nitpicking every detail like some kind of neurotic?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:11:00 - [135] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Why can't you just enjoy the story without nitpicking every detail like some kind of neurotic? Call an ugly baby an ugly baby, I guess. It's a perfectly valid opinion, really. Has nothing to do with uber-geekdom or whatever. Folks complain about mechanics changes all the time. For people who care about prime fiction, it's much the same. I'm sure we'll all get over it and move on...but bad writing is bad writing. Obviously the book might "fix" things and provide a new perspective from which it will become "good" writing...but then you have the whole issue of "bad execution."
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:11:00 - [136] Originally by: Garreck Call an ugly baby an ugly baby, I guess. It's a perfectly valid opinion, really. Has nothing to do with uber-geekdom or whatever. Folks complain about mechanics changes all the time. For people who care about prime fiction, it's much the same. I'm sure we'll all get over it and move on...but bad writing is bad writing. Obviously the book might "fix" things and provide a new perspective from which it will become "good" writing...but then you have the whole issue of "bad execution." No, I'm afraid it has everything to do with geekdom. As in, if you have a serious problem with this, you're a geek.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:15:00 - [137] Edited by: Garreck on 14/06/2008 03:14:50 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu No, I'm afraid it has everything to do with geekdom. As in, if you have a serious problem with this, you're a geek. What's funny is that we're arguing on an internet spaceships forum about the definition of a geek. Some of us don't like how CCP wrote and executed the story. We're expressing our displeasure. I'm not going to venture to tell you "why this makes you angry."
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:17:00 - [138] Originally by: Garreck What's funny is that we're arguing on an internet spaceships forum about the definition of a geek. Some of us don't like how CCP wrote and executed the story. We're expressing our displeasure. I'm not going to venture to tell you "why this makes you angry." Hey, I'm just expressing my displeasure at what a total geek you are. I have the right to do that, don't I? ;\
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:18:00 - [139] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Hey, I'm just expressing my displeasure at what a total geek you are. I have the right to do that, don't I? ;\ Actually, yes.
Pezzle Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:28:00 - [140] Geek
Jove X	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:32:00 - [141] Originally by: Garreck Some of us don't like how CCP wrote and executed the story. We're expressing our displeasure. I'm not going to venture to tell you "why this makes you angry." Don't bother trying to stoop to his level of logic. I've left him thinking he's he's won me over. I suggest you do the same and spend your energy rationalizing with more constructive participants in this thread. If you don't feed the trolls they wonder away.
Hurs Sokira Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:34:00 - [142] Edited by: Hurs Sokira on 14/06/2008 03:35:24 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu You are a gross trekkie, Hardin. Oh, yes, someone is accused of being a trekkie and a geek in a forum dedicated to internet spaceships... I am sure Hardin is deeply insulted. But Star Trek analogy is interesting one. The inconsistencies in writing is not on the scale of Picard's rank insignia being on the wrong side. It is on the scale of Wesley Crusher overthrowing said Picard in a coup, becoming Supreme Emperor of Galactic Federation (and growing an evil goatee) and next week defeating Klingon Empire in a blitzkrieg. Would it be feasible in Sci-Fi Star Trek universe? Absolutely. Would it be good business decision for Paramount to approve such episode? Absolutely not. You want comparison with Star Trek? Fine. What happened to the franchise when writers and producers stopped caring about the quality of storylines and started chasing "wider, younger demographics" by introducing dramatic, but exceedingly more ludicsrous characters and storylines? Do we have current Star Trek franchise running on TV? No. Why? Because writing sucked. Special effects became much better, battles much more spectacular, ships shinier...(see the parallels?) But did ratings improve? No. People cared about quality of characters and storylines, not about quantity of explosions and endless space battles and "companion books" available in local bookstores. One would think that CCP, being a part of entertainment industry, would be aware of such pitfalls. Instead, they seem intent on following the well-worn path of every promising project that falls victim to creative mediocrity as a main cause of its demise.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.14 03:36:00 - [143] Originally by: Jove X Originally by: Garreck Some of us don't like how CCP wrote and executed the story. We're expressing our displeasure. I'm not going to venture to tell you "why this makes you angry." Don't bother trying to stoop to his level of logic. I've left him thinking he's he's won me over. I suggest you do the same and spend your energy rationalizing with more constructive participants in this thread. If you don't feed the trolls they wonder away. Holy crap, that's an awesome strategy. I mean, until you posted that, I totally thought I won.
An Anarchyyt Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 04:10:00 - [144] It's like that time I bought a Choose Your Own Adventure book, and I picked one, and then the ending that I chose was a bad ending. HOW COULD THEY DO THAT TO ME WHEN I PAID MONIES FOR IT???!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Rodj Blake PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.14 08:48:00 - [145] If the Jamyl plot were transplanted into the real world, we'd have something along these lines: The war in Iraq takes a turn for the worse. Onoes! Mahdi Army paratroopers are landing in New York! George W Bush goes missing. Ronald Reagan takes his old desk in the Oval Office, says "You ain't seen nothin' yet" and nukes Basra. The only people to comment on this are Barack Obama and John McCain who say "Reagan for President!", even though he's ineligable. And dead. TBH, I've seen better plots in a Jeffrey Archer novel. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.14 09:13:00 - [146] Ronald Reagan Drops Giant Handbag on Basra IN ANOTHER REALLY DRAMATIC SOUNDING NEWS POST!!!!! SKUNK
Trolsk Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.06.14 09:25:00 - [147] You think the Caldari/Gallente storyline is better?
Hardin	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:02:00 - [148] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Relax, step away from the forum ;\ I already had :p And Victor Vision - I am not 100% happy - but will give CCP the benefit of doubt now they have actually communicated and semi-clarified that there is some logic behind this! ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services Advert
Brother Welcome Icarus' Wings	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:10:00 - [149] Who could possibly care less? Go play an RP game. Or read a book.
Venomire GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.14 10:25:00 - [150] Originally by: Trolsk You think the Caldari/Gallente storyline is better? Maybe not, but Foiritan's recent address highlights a certain amount of anger on the Gallente part. He sounds a wee bit ticked.

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