| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 47 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Blind Jhon
   |
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:13:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Blind Jhon on 19/06/2008 14:14:59
since i love this ship so much.... i go whit some test...
just to compare it whit other tier 2 bs
tempest tank oriented full low whit one rep hardners and 1600 plate + 3 trimark rigs
 VS average blasterthhron setup from ship and modules guide = MEGA WIN
VS apoc whit megapulse II = apoc apoc better tank and better dps = APOC WIN
VS torp raven (just for comedy value)..... = RAVEN WIN
so i said myself... << WTF ARE YOU BLIND? >> tempest is a gun boat fit for gank
i put in 2gyro double rep 1600plate+ suitcase and 2trimark rig and one for turret ROF (test it whit 650 II and after whit 800 II both whit hail) it was near 800 dps
VS mega= mega better tank and uber dps MEGA WIN (actually i've been blasted)
VS torp raven = RAVEN WIN (blasted even faster)
VS apoc = hard to get dowN due to tough tank... apoc win BUT WHIT DOUBLE ENERGY NEUT TEMPEST GOT HIS CHANCE \O/
notice i never considered in my tests drones...
result tempest suck.
we must get it good for something
tempest need an extra low sltot to have a tank chance OR it needs an extra turret to be able to gank
one way or other it must be good in something istead of being able to do everything.
cheers
|
Blind Jhon
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Blind Jhon on 19/06/2008 14:15:44
since i love this ship so much.... i go whit some test...
just to compare it whit other tier 2 bs
tempest tank oriented full low whit one rep hardners and 1600 plate + 3 trimark rigs
VS average blasterthhron setup from ship and modules guide = MEGA WIN
VS apoc whit megapulse II = apoc apoc better tank and better dps = APOC WIN
VS torp raven (just for comedy value)..... = RAVEN WIN
so i said myself... << WTF ARE YOU BLIND? >> tempest is a gun boat fit for gank
i put in 2gyro double rep 1600plate+ suitcase and 2trimark rig and one for turret ROF (test it whit 650 II and after whit 800 II both whit hail) it was near 800 dps
VS mega= mega better tank and uber dps MEGA WIN (actually i've been blasted)
VS torp raven = RAVEN WIN (blasted even faster)
VS apoc = hard to get dowN due to tough tank... apoc win BUT WHIT DOUBLE ENERGY NEUT TEMPEST GOT HIS CHANCE \O/
notice i never considered in my tests drones...
result tempest suck.
we must get it good for something
--> tempest need an extra low sltot to have a tank chance OR it needs an extra turret to be able to gank <--
one way or other it must be good in something istead of being able to do everything.
cheers
|
P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:19:00 -
[3]
Empirical research at it's best!
|
Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:21:00 -
[4]
My tests show that it does not suck.
Not that I am nber or anything, but I never fly caldari or gallente bs in pvp, even though I could use at least scorpion, raven and dominix with nearly maxed skills.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Trevor Warps
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:55:00 -
[5]
And your sucky tempest shoots out to what, 40 km ?
|
Rane Javoke
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 14:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rane Javoke on 19/06/2008 14:57:45
don't forget to factor in better speed, agility, range (due to barrage), selectable damage and capless guns.
it's tank is sub par though, given the slot layout, but it stays true with minmatar philosophy (in that it's mediocre and versatile).
plus, you can fit and permarun double reppers if you reaaaaally want to without gimping it too much. still, it will be no match for other tanked BSes, but hey, name one minmatar ship that tanks well (-maelstorm).
gank-wise, you just have to outmaneuver or out-e-war your opponent. So yeah its not as impressive in the "mwd-on, approach in point blank range, melt with blasters" game, but it can stay out of falloff range (say, vs a mega) while pelting it with AC shells and heavy neut blasts. it just takes lots of skills, both in and out of game.
on another note, because i too love the tempest, it should get some lovin' (a tad more speed, pg/cpu, boost of artillery aplha.. whatever), because atm it fails as a long range sniper, and it's merely competent solo.
at least thats my opinion :)
edit: ninja grammar and syntax corrections :P
|
AstroPhobic
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:13:00 -
[7]
Well, besides the awful post from the OP, the tempest does need some love, and if you need proof, you're obviously blind. The numbers have been brought up over and over and over.
However thread will soon fail because it was poorly presented.
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/06/2008 15:16:35
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/06/2008 15:15:40
 Originally by: Rane Javoke
but it can stay out of falloff range (say, vs a mega) while pelting it with AC shells and heavy neut blasts. it just takes lots of skills, both in and out of game.
And time. You need like 10 minutes of shooting another battleship before it goes down, 30 minutes if its a caldari ship...
Gallente is much easier to win with. Once you're in range, the other ship dies most of the time, and *fast*.
Currently training for gallente ships to find out if they are as easy to win with as I think they are.
---
Its dead, Jim.
|
AstroPhobic
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/06/2008 15:16:41
Originally by: Rane Javoke
but it can stay out of falloff range (say, vs a mega) while pelting it with AC shells and heavy neut blasts. it just takes lots of skills, both in and out of game.
And time. You need like 10 minutes of shooting another battleship before it goes down, 30 minutes if its a caldari ship...
Gallente is much easier to win with. Once you're in range, the other ship dies most of the time, and *fast*.
Currently training for gallente ships to find out if they are as easy to win with as I think they are.
Bah, I'm currently training amarr ships to find out if they're as sleek and sexy as I think they are. And they are. Besides, pulse lasers = sex, beam lasers = sex, gold plating = sex!
|
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:35:00 -
[10]
Tempest needs some sort of oomph  Worst tank, mediocre DPS, ****ty HP, only thing it has is it's speed and agility but thats down to zilch with everyone fitting webs.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Rane Javoke
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:36:00 -
[11]
to both posters above : i agree with all your points and opinions. It's common knowledge that minmatar ships lose their charm when surpassing cruiser-class size. (typhoon is an exception,but not on the list because when you manage to fly and kit it well, you are 2 skills away from piloting capitals anyway)
bottom line :
Do minmatar BSes suck? In absolute terms, yes. On special occasions they are at best interesting
Do they need a boost? yes, albeit a minor one (imo).
Does the rest of the minmatar fleet below BS size make up for the mediocre BSes and caps? oh my, yes 
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:45:00 -
[12]
If you really want to discuss a boost, I would suggest reducing the damage penalty for shooting in falloff range.
---
Its dead, Jim.
|
AstroPhobic
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 15:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rane Javoke
Does the rest of the minmatar fleet below BS size make up for the mediocre BSes and caps? oh my, yes
I don't think so. Let us compare to gallente, for fun.
Minmatar - Rifter, Gallente - Incursus
Minmatar - Rupture, Gallente - Thorax
Minmatar - Stabber, Gallente - Vexor
Minmatar - Hurricane, Gallente - Myrmidon
Minmatar - Vagabond, Gallente - Ishtar
Fairly even huh? Let's get into the minmatar advantages
Rapier - Arazu
Huginn - Lachesis
Stiletto - Ares
Damps need some love. Back to gallente advantages
Claw - Taranis
Muninn - Deimos
Cyclone - Brutix
As you see, it's fairly even with gallente. Sure I omitted certain classes (HICs, Cov Ops, Stealth Bombers, Destroyers, Logistics) because they're just different, harder to compare. Sure, these are my opinions, but they're fairly consistent with usability. Anyway... as you were.
|
Rane Javoke
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 16:12:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rane Javoke on 19/06/2008 16:13:20
Originally by: AstroPhobic
(comparisons)
my point precisely, i dind't mean that minnie cruiser-sized ships are uberpwn, they are mostly on par with the rest. It's the BSes that are sub-par.
Plus, nano******* is fun!
imo however, rifter > incursus
rupture vs thorax is up to pilot skill, in theorycraft it looks like a tight match
stabber vs vexor, see above (i would bet on the vexor though)
hurricane > myrmidon (no heavy drones anymore)
vaga vs ishtar is a close match too i'd reckon. If anything, they can both escape the encounter.
recons are a totally different thing, they are very very specific in what they do so there's no point comparing them. ceptors are all pretty much the same as far as i'm concerned, they just put points on stuff and go fast
not flaming, just voicing my opinion.. stay cool everyone 
|
Wu Jiun
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 16:19:00 -
[15]
Well regarding sniper work apoc is just much much better (and should be mind you).
If indeed you managed to lose closerange against an apoc with your pest then tbh you suck even more than the pest. Seriously there is no excuse for that.
|
Ong
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 16:46:00 -
[16]
Oh my good god, yes matar bs's do realy need some love, the phoon is not a bad fleet ship when combined with other high dps bs's as it can add to the dps (not by much) and can give aid to the other bs's with remote rep. the tempest is rubbish, it doesent tank, it doesent do enough damage to gank fit it as it will lose to every other gank bs in the game. the mael is not bad, but compaired to the other t3 bs's its well below average with an ok tank and ok dps. please please ccp show the matar bs's some love, im personally cross training to get the mega/hype as both are far superior bs's.
the pest needs an extra low slot and extra gun slot, the mael either needs more dps or a better tank, so a higher damage bonus, or maybe some form of resist bonus.
|
Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
And your sucky tempest shoots out to what, 40 km ?
lol wut?
with what?
-------------
T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rane Javoke
Do minmatar BSes suck? In absolute terms, yes. On special occasions they are at best interesting
;-)
Quote:
Do they need a boost? yes, albeit a minor one (imo).
Sure, I'm sure we'll take anything we can get.
Quote:
Does the rest of the minmatar fleet below BS size make up for the mediocre BSes and caps? oh my, yes
No. Not really. If I had the energy, I'd debunk this... but suffice it to say that there have been 10 page threads about this topic that thoroughly debunked it.
There are plenty of fantastic ships in every other race below battleship - and what's more is that the other races have complained/whined enough to in most cases have at least one ship that's just flat better than its Matari counterpart.
Matari are not so far above the pack in the sub-bs realm to justify their absolute suckage in battleships.
-Liang
--
It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
P'Tang
THE INSURGENCY
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ong
Oh my good god, yes matar bs's do realy need some love, the phoon is not a bad fleet ship when combined with other high dps bs's as it can add to the dps (not by much) and can give aid to the other bs's with remote rep. the tempest is rubbish, it doesent tank, it doesent do enough damage to gank fit it as it will lose to every other gank bs in the game. the mael is not bad, but compaired to the other t3 bs's its well below average with an ok tank and ok dps. please please ccp show the matar bs's some love, im personally cross training to get the mega/hype as both are far superior bs's.
the pest needs an extra low slot and extra gun slot, the mael either needs more dps or a better tank, so a higher damage bonus, or maybe some form of resist bonus.
The Mael's tank is amazing; too bad the DPS really is lacking. 
|
Trojanman190
D00M.
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 17:57:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Trojanman190 on 19/06/2008 17:58:16
I like my tempest. It sucks now that most of our suppoort moduels like ecm and nos got nerfed but I still like it.
Btw wtf are you doing not fitting dual reps?
What ****es me off more than anything are our guns. Arty blow. Ac are mediocre. FIghting in falloff kinda fails.
|
Selia Rain
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 18:14:00 -
[21]
Try the classic gang setup with a shield tank and 3x gyro+800mm AC. It's classic because it's rarely used anymore, not because it's crap.
With a shield tank you:
Can fit 3x gyros easy.
Can fit siege launchers with a fitting mod.
Can fit falloff rigs without worrying overmuch about pg use.
Dps is over 1k with siege and 5x hammerheads, on the other hand, a mere 400-500 dps tank is nothing special, but the damage is well worth it, in my opinion.
|
arbalesttom
Glauxian Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:15:00 -
[22]
I want the trainingtime i spend on large autocannon spec and large arty spec back anyway, matar battleships suck
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
|
Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Trojanman190
Edited by: Trojanman190 on 19/06/2008 17:58:16
Btw wtf are you doing not fitting dual reps?
Because in close combat buffer > reps
period.
-------------
T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Bootleg Greg
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:21:00 -
[24]
I am not trying to troll, but I wish some-day the "This Ship Sucks!" threads would cease. This game is a very balanced game, you do not succeed in this game through a better ship. The game is about knowledge/strategy/intelligence. If you cannot defeat the enemy, run away, come back in something that can. Every ship has a counter, stop complaining and find it.
|
arbalesttom
Glauxian Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:21:00 -
[25]
Both buffertank and dual rep tanks suck on a tempest, since you really want at least 2 gyro's on it.
So, in order to do 'gank' like dps, you have no tank to speak of (buffer or dual rep). If you want to tank, even a thorax will outdamage you..
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
|
arbalesttom
Glauxian Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bootleg Greg
Every ship has a counter, stop complaining and find it.
Yeah, basicly everything is a viable counter to a tempest
***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko
That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
|
Liang Nuren
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Siddy
Because in close combat buffer > reps
period.
/truth
There are limitations to this, but they're becoming more and more rare with the number of participants in combat these days. :)
-Liang
--
It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Blind Jhon
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Selia Rain
Try the classic gang setup with a shield tank and 3x gyro+800mm AC. It's classic because it's rarely used anymore, not because it's crap.
With a shield tank you:
Can fit 3x gyros easy.
Can fit siege launchers with a fitting mod.
Can fit falloff rigs without worrying overmuch about pg use.
Dps is over 1k with siege and 5x hammerheads, on the other hand, a mere 400-500 dps tank is nothing
special, but the damage is well worth it, in my opinion.
...... with a fitting mod.
ok but come on at least it need more 20% CPU
because 2 fitting mod seems a bit too much on a pvp fitting..... or it's just me?
ps astro sorry if my post isn't well done  i just want to bring attemption on this problem
|
Liang Nuren
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bootleg Greg
I am not trying to troll, but I wish some-day the "This Ship Sucks!" threads would cease. This game is a very balanced game, you do not succeed in this game through a better ship. The game is about knowledge/strategy/intelligence. If you cannot defeat the enemy, run away, come back in something that can. Every ship has a counter, stop complaining and find it.
What you're missing is that the Tempest has an exceedingly narrow role in combat... there's really not any good reasons to use it (unless you have NO missile/drone skills, good gunnery skills, and you're suicidal enough to try and nano a turret based battleship).
What does the Tempest have for it? Two utility mids that can be used for RR or Neuts, and a bit of speed. Does this make up for the huge variety of situations that it sucks in? No, not really.
-Liang
--
It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Blind Jhon
|
Posted - 2008.06.19 19:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: arbalesttom
Both buffertank and dual rep tanks suck on a tempest, since you really want at least 2 gyro's on it.
So, in order to do 'gank' like dps, you have no tank to speak of (buffer or dual rep). If you want to tank, even a thorax will outdamage you..
this is why i claim for an extra low slot... just for fitting that damned EANM II
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 47 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |