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Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.02 18:49:00 - [481] Originally by: Siddy i know, add minmatar battleships natural WCS it dont penalize it anway. Typhoon gets +1 Tempest gets +2 maelstrom gts +3 Now we can use em for soloroaming and get out if risked being gankked. problem solved, everyone happy, burn eden starts train minmatar.
Mos Qi	Posted - 2008.07.02 19:34:00 - [482] /signed
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:10:00 - [483] Not sure what you mean about the maelstrom performing fine vs other battleships. It doesn't. Anyway, I want more artillery solutions. Please.
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:26:00 - [484] Edited by: Jalif on 02/07/2008 20:27:19 to be honest, we got pretty much out of our ideas if we look at the guns. How about defence? Maybe increase out shield capacity by a large amount? & change the 7.5% bonus of mealstrom to a 10% bonus shield capacity? EDIT: Just brainstorming.... not the greatest idea, but he, amarrian dudes did the same. Made insane ideas until they got the bufffffffffffffffffffffffffff. ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
Siddy Minmatar Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:33:00 - [485] Edited by: Siddy on 02/07/2008 20:33:22 This thread smells of cheese and mold everyone are repeating same ol things...
Atlanticpyro The Space BorderLine Diabolic Paradox	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:38:00 - [486] 7.5% bonis to smart bomb dmg and, 5% to smart bomb range.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:38:00 - [487] Originally by: Siddy Edited by: Siddy on 02/07/2008 20:33:22 This thread smells of cheese and mold everyone are repeating same ol things... It's 17 pages long, it's expected. I propose a 50% damage increase across the board in all minmatar ammo. Discuss.
Atlanticpyro The Space BorderLine Diabolic Paradox	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:48:00 - [488] sounds decent to me. I just think its sad i can do more dmg in a geddon with amarr bs 1 and energy turret 1 than the matar bs with lvl 4 projectiles and 4 matar bs
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:50:00 - [489] Originally by: Atlanticpyro sounds decent to me. I just think its sad i can do more dmg in a geddon with amarr bs 1 and energy turret 1 than the matar bs with lvl 4 projectiles and 4 matar bs That pretty much sums it up right there.
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:56:00 - [490] what about increasing basic falloff on large ACs? 25%-50%? This will offer new tactical possibilities
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.03 01:20:00 - [491] Originally by: Slade Hoo what about increasing basic falloff on large ACs? 25%-50%? This will offer new tactical possibilities A significant increase in falloff is interesting, but the effect will be to stretch autocannon range out to artillery range (at less damage). We'd still do poor damage up close, but we'd be able to hit out a bit further. I imagine in some situations that'd be quite useful, but overall I don't think it really fixes things. Now if it was coupled with an overall DPS boost to allow us to compete better up close, then we're talking haha.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.03 01:24:00 - [492] Originally by: Siddy Edited by: Siddy on 02/07/2008 18:51:05 i know, add minmatar battleships natural WCS it dont penalize it anway. Typhoon gets +1 Tempest gets +2 maelstrom gts +3 Now we can use em for soloroaming and get out if risked being gankked. problem solved, everyone happy, burn eden starts train minmatar. Wow, I actually lol'ed at that... -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.03 02:35:00 - [493] Originally by: deadmeet Originally by: To mare projectile dont sux because they use no cap. projectile sux because they are intended to sux in almost everything that wasnt they old role. arty role was to end the battle before it even start and that was good but nerfs to tracking, stacking penality on dmg mods and the most important HP buff screwed they ONLY role (side note: abbaddon with tachyon have more alpha and thats just stupid). ACs role was to dish out a decent (see subpar) dps at a decent range while the versatility of our ships could hold the enemy back (old nos, old ecm) and this was good, but the game evolved now nos is almost useless, ecm are good only on bonused ships, active tanking lost all his old fashion because passive tanking with buffed plates/extender and defensive rigs its just much better in almost any situation. the minmatar bs in the old times was fun to pvp because the pilot needed a brain to win if the pilot had the brain he could use the strong point of his ship to make up for the weakness, but now BS pvp have no more space for thinking pilot its just a matter of Xdps/Yehp ship VS Zdps/Kehp othership, who have more win. range still matter but only if is big enough, the 13-15km that minmatar BS was used to hold in the old days now count less than nothing when heated mid can close the gap, 30-40km can still do the job. short story AC where viable when other things on the same ship could make up for theyr lackness. EVE has evolved during this 5 years but while the other races had the way to adapt, a good chunk of the minmatar line up has been stuck in the past. the other races copied our strong points and they become good as us and sometime even better (see nano cruiser/frigate), but minmatar dont have a way to copy other races style(big tank, big gank) and be effective with that. atm when you undock with something minmatar bigger than a BC its like if you go to a actual war with a sword (or a crossbow if you are lucky) VS people with guns. Completely agree with that post and with mare opinion in general. The post are well written and give a very good explanation of the problem. Instead of comparing Maximum EFT OMG maelstrom 1100 DPS with only 5 gyros..... listen to her... Maelstrom can reach 1k class dps with 3 gyros only ( easy considerign its a shield tanker) And quite a LOT of peopel have absolutely MAXCMIUM skills for damage on that ship. So why not use EFT numbers? My char matches EFT damage, if your don 't its your fault not the ship. Maelstrom needs to be looked at yes when discussign this because its not a minmatar ship. Maesltrom si a brute force ship, different from any other minmatar ship, it focus ina high damage with insane tank and no tricks. Exact the oposite of tempest. Annalysing now good or bad each of the 2 are puts light upon the issue on waht is really wrong, and to me it proves that its not AC issues. Its mostly the nerf to all tricks in game , NOS, ECM, etc.. overheat issues destroing the kitign techniques and the HP boost that made buffer tank several orders better than active tank. All nerfs to the tempest. Makign AC do high poitn blank damage don 't fix minmatar. It make sminmatar becoem gallente. We need minmatar not gallente ships. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Blind Jhon Amarr Alenia psy departement	Posted - 2008.07.03 09:58:00 - [494] jalif & astro maked me have one of my strande ideas.... <3 50% more damage on projectile ammo and... what about have 1/2 our shield recharge rate? (apart maelstrom here must be buffed agility and velocity) this will go whit our subpar armor tank (half low tank half low gyros), and is 100% minmatarish way hit and run faster than the damge we take your 650mmII autocannon perfectly turn of wreking your untanked minmatar ship
Jalif Deviance Inc Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:59:00 - [495] Originally by: Blind Jhon jalif & astro maked me have one of my strande ideas.... <3 50% more damage on projectile ammo and... what about have 1/2 our shield recharge rate? (apart maelstrom here must be buffed agility and velocity) this will go whit our subpar armor tank (half low tank half low gyros), and is 100% minmatarish way hit and run faster than the damge we take 50% more damage is way to much... & 1/2 our sheild racharge rate, just no... Many minmtar ships have just shield extenders fitted.... just look at vega & recons.... you will nerf them if you do that... ********** BOOST MINMATAR!!! **********
Blind Jhon Amarr Alenia psy departement	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:28:00 - [496] sorry as always my bad english ruin my ideas my intent was to decrease of 50% our shield recharge rate, so for example emp have 44 damage? we ingrease them of 22 -> 66 max raw damage from emp tempest shield recharge rate is 2500 sec? let it go to 1300 sec......... (thinking it's tank is ) whould this be too much? your 650mmII autocannon perfectly turn of wreking your untanked minmatar ship
To mare	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:37:00 - [497] yes a +22 on ammo is a bit too much, you would see maestrom pushing out 1600+ dps at close range and 1500+ dps tempest, honestly i would love it but its overpowered.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:23:00 - [498] Originally by: To mare yes a +22 on ammo is a bit too much, you would see maestrom pushing out 1600+ dps at close range and 1500+ dps tempest, honestly i would love it but its overpowered. ( - This will be fun) Yes, but we have less EHP o worse tanks that our gallente counterparts. In a close range fight, it will be fairly even. It will be about even with amarr DPS at laser range. Coupled with our poor sensor strength, it should be pretty even, and versatile. Like minmatar should be.
Trojanman190 D00M. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.03 20:52:00 - [499] You can't just boost our raw damage to make us fight better in our falloff range because we would be way to good at close range. There is just no way that will happen. I still don't understand what is going on with the maelstrom argument. Sweet you have an 1100 dps gank ship that can barely move and cannot tackle on its own. You know, the mega, a tier lower, gets superior dps at that 3km range, costs less, has a much better tank, AND can tackle. The maelstrom is an extremely cool on paper battleship but is outclassed in practice. Even if ac got fixed this ship still wouldn't have much of a roll. This ship will probably still suck even if they fixed arty and ac because the tempest would do almost everything it can do. Tempest performs similarly in fleet and can fit tackle gear for close range + can actually rr (although the phoon is a better choice imo). Maelstrom? Sacs tank for tackle gear, is freaking slow, has the same range as the tempest, lacks lows for rr (one of the few areas of the game still dominated by battleships). Although it is good for pve... A lot of problem could be solved by changing the bonuses on this ship. 10% optimal, 5% damage. Range + Alpha (but that kills the ac setup, even tho that sucks anyways) 15% falloff, 5% damage Range + Alpha (and won't kill acs, tho won't boost range that much) This is pretty much a reiteration of the whines people had when the ship was introduced... useless fleet bonus (where people expected the ship to be used) does very little if anything better than the pest. The whole maelstrom bit is a little tangental (is that a word?) to this thread in my opinion. This ship will still feel wrong even after the projectiles are (hopefully) fixed.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.03 22:42:00 - [500] Originally by: Trojanman190 You can't just boost our raw damage to make us fight better in our falloff range because we would be way to good at close range. There is just no way that will happen. Exactly. This is why we need an optimal.
AltyNr1	Posted - 2008.07.04 01:35:00 - [501] Originally by: AstroPhobic Yes, but we have less EHP o worse tanks that our gallente counterparts. In a close range fight, it will be fairly even. No. A +50% dps pest would obliterate any and all gallente ships in close range. Originally by: AstroPhobic It will be about even with amarr DPS at laser range. Which is ironic because damage at range is the racial specialty of amarr. So to reiterate: AC boats should outdamage blasterboats in closerange - by far. They should also outdamage laserships up close and at range. And you people wonder why these threads get ignored?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.04 01:38:00 - [502] Originally by: AltyNr1 Which is ironic because damage at range is the racial specialty of amarr. So to reiterate: AC boats should outdamage blasterboats in closerange - by far. They should also outdamage laserships up close and at range. And you people wonder why these threads get ignored? Oddly enough, range is also the racial specialty of Minmatar. Why else do you hear people saying "but you get 10km of falloff!!!!q1111" -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
AltyNr1	Posted - 2008.07.04 01:52:00 - [503] Originally by: Liang Nuren Oddly enough, range is also the racial specialty of Minmatar. Why else do you hear people saying "but you get 10km of falloff!!!!q1111" -Liang So you are suggesting a dps boost of 50% for projectiles is anywhere near reasonable? And furthermore you think a tempest should do the same or more damage than a geddon at all ranges(naturally with better tracking, variable damage types, zero cap use and free utility slots)? Is that what you are implying? I mean hey maybe i am the only one in this thread who has actually flown a battleship in combat. Any serious battleship pilot knows how insane that proposal is and your smartassery won't change it.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:06:00 - [504] Originally by: AltyNr1 blah blah blah You're missing the point. This thread is 17 pages long. Did you read every page? No, probably not. Ideas have been shared and re-shared, discussed and re-discussed, and there's still no general consensus upon the masses. It seems minmatar is underpowered in the battleship + classes, this seems to be agreed. Nobody likes to boost it the same way. So far: Autocannons- Boost falloff Boost EMP Boost optimal Boost dmg modifier Fix 800s Artillery- Boost falloff Boost optimal Boost alpha Boost ROF Boost clip Boost tracking Minmatar BS- Add low Add mid change highs to mids/lows change bonuses give them odd bonuses such as smartbomb give them built in warp str () Well? Which is the best way? Nothing gets accomplished if the same ideas get repeated, so for this sake we throw wild ideas out there to judge and compare them. At the worst we achieve the jojo effect - make everything seem worse than it really is, so we get some serious attention. But anyway, troll on mr. alt, I've got time to waste.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:07:00 - [505] Originally by: AltyNr1 So you are suggesting a dps boost of 50% for projectiles is anywhere near reasonable? And furthermore you think a tempest should do the same or more damage than a geddon at all ranges(naturally with better tracking, variable damage types, zero cap use and free utility slots)? Is that what you are implying? I mean hey maybe i am the only one in this thread who has actually flown a battleship in combat. Any serious battleship pilot knows how insane that proposal is and your smartassery won't change it. No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that you're being a flaming idiot. :) -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
AltyNr1	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:13:00 - [506] Originally by: Liang Nuren No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that you're being a flaming idiot. :) -Liang Stupid ideas get flamed. Thats just how it is. Don't like it? Then get a clue next time.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:16:00 - [507] Originally by: AltyNr1 Stupid ideas get flamed. Thats just how it is. Don't like it? Then get a clue next time. Sure, because I totally suggested the idea and said it was reasonable. Who needs to get a clue? Oh, I've got it: Gimme an A! Gimme an L! Gimme an T! Gimme an Y! Gimme an N! Gimme an R! Gimme an L! What's that spell? AltyNrl!! -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
AltyNr1	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:22:00 - [508] Originally by: AstroPhobic You're missing the point. This thread is 17 pages long. Did you read every page? No, probably not. Ideas have been shared and re-shared, discussed and re-discussed, and there's still no general consensus upon the masses. It seems minmatar is underpowered in the battleship + classes, this seems to be agreed. Nobody likes to boost it the same way. Yeah, boost the pest all the way. Boost large arties baby. If you find a reasonable way i am all with you. But there is well lets say experimental ideas and then there is just insane ideas. Originally by: AstroPhobic Well? Which is the best way? Nothing gets accomplished if the same ideas get repeated, so for this sake we throw wild ideas out there to judge and compare them. At the worst we achieve the jojo effect - make everything seem worse than it really is, so we get some serious attention. SO, basically you're just throwing silly ideas out knowing fully well that they are just that. Okay, nevermind then. Maybe thread should be renamed to "people pulling things out of their asses" to keep posters who care about balance (like me) out of it. Originally by: AstroPhobic But anyway, troll on mr. alt, I've got time to waste. SO, you come here make insane proposals knowing full well they are stupid. I shoot them down and you call ME the troll? Can i have some of the ganja?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:25:00 - [509] Originally by: AltyNr1 SO, you come here make insane proposals knowing full well they are stupid. I shoot them down and you call ME the troll? Can i have some of the ganja? Yeah, I'd say you're trolling (and I'm biting). You enter the thread thumbing your nose at everyone and making incorrect implications (namely that Amarr is range based while Minmatar is not). You get called on it, and then start flaming someone who hasn't even posted in this thread. Good ****ing Game. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.04 02:26:00 - [510] I make proposals to spark ideas. I'm not seriously proposing a 50% damage increase off the board - but I want to see what it does to the weapons, and what people think about it. There's been 13-14 pages of discussion, and it can only go on for so long before it starts repeating itself. To keep this thread going, you need fresh ideas, fresh discussion, fresh trolls. But, since you've seemed to skip the last 15 pages, you don't understand.

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