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Threv Echandari
K Directorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:03:00 -
[31]
With Regards to the Amarr War effort and Eve Voice. It's true that bickering over TS vs Vent vs EV is Pointless. Eve-Voice should be the De-facto Client for Milita and Joint Ops. Its quality (by and large)is comparable to the other two and most importantly everyone has access to it. (more so than Vent or TS tbh) Its fleet integration tools are the best period. Oh did I mention everybody has it? :)
TS or Vent is fine for your own Corp Ops or even as a backup in case of disconnections. That is Eve Voice's Biggest flaw, and the "Wall" which CCP needs to Break to make EV acceptable for everyone.
As far as organization is concerned, they do need to get it together. The 2 or three FC's that I know of aren't enough. As far as Kamela and Kourmonen are concerned, I believe that this is an artificial barrier, much as TAMA is for the Caldari. It serves little purpose other than as a training exercise for fleet ops and some PVP jollies. Which is OK PVP is what its all about but its not going to win over morale let alone VP or good Press if you keep throwing yourselves against their spears.
Lowsec is not 0.0. It should be easier to fight a distributed /asymmetrical war against the Minnie Hordes. With smart use of Stations, Supply, Markets, Pod and Jump Clones and other tools, the Amarr needn't even worry about "Choke points", that concept is as superfluous as Trench Warfare and provides much the same results. How do you think the Minnies come back so quickly after losing lots of Ships? Do you honestly think they fly back from Heimatar???? If you believe that I have a nice dead end system the Bleak lands I could sell you..Cheap
I have expressed these concerns privately and I have heard folks say "Yes" That all well and good but we're not organized enough. Perhaps, but the beauty of a decentralized warfare Plus "Instant" communication should allow us to mobilize from anywhere to anywhere. Now I know that the Amarr are a proud conservative Race ruled by tradition and slow to change etc and I respect that but the New War requires new ways, you can't fight todays war with yesterdays tactics..
Happiness is a Wet Pod
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Daziel Iaar
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:08:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Daziel Iaar on 20/06/2008 16:15:37
 Originally by: Gorgan Sixfinger
You may be right Daziel Iaar, but we need everyone to join up. I can understand why you wont leave your alliance and all, but it would help a lot if we had more "figureheads" as you call them.
We might be made up of individuals rather than corportations, and therefore ned more corporations to join the cause if we are to turn the tide.
In my opinion, things have reached a point where Empyrian Age is failing to deliver. We are in effect being blobbed to death. I know there are a lot of people saying, "the stop blobbing", but with just 15-20 jumps from one end of the "playground" to the other, a measure of blobbing will always be in effect.
I DO agree that we may need to spread out more, but that does not change the fact that Minmatar have Amarr outnumbered two to one at all times.
So either CCP allows a limited number of alliances to apply for a "temp fix" to the "cant join" problem, or Amarr at least will cease to fight back, thus negating the whole point.
Effectively allowing minmatar pilots to grind victory points until there are no amarr held systems left in bleak lands.
If this weekend is a crap as the last week has been, I am either flying up to help Caldari or simply making a new character. I am not wasting my time being blobbed or telling people why not being on voice commns is stupid... seriously, there ARE people who think they can just tag along with the fleet. When they get left behind, they blame the FC... 
We ain't in an alliance, PIE joined as a single corporation as it has been a single corporation for a long time now :) I'm not entirely sure however if any of the major amarr alliances have a properly set up alt corporation up and running as of yet either though.
Templar Lieutenant of the 24th Crusade
"His Will Be Done" |
Zaphod Jones
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Daziel Iaar
Edited by: Daziel Iaar on 20/06/2008 16:15:37
Originally by: Gorgan Sixfinger
You may be right Daziel Iaar, but we need everyone to join up. I can understand why you wont leave your alliance and all, but it would help a lot if we had more "figureheads" as you call them.
We might be made up of individuals rather than corportations, and therefore ned more corporations to join the cause if we are to turn the tide.
In my opinion, things have reached a point where Empyrian Age is failing to deliver. We are in effect being blobbed to death. I know there are a lot of people saying, "the stop blobbing", but with just 15-20 jumps from one end of the "playground" to the other, a measure of blobbing will always be in effect.
I DO agree that we may need to spread out more, but that does not change the fact that Minmatar have Amarr outnumbered two to one at all times.
So either CCP allows a limited number of alliances to apply for a "temp fix" to the "cant join" problem, or Amarr at least will cease to fight back, thus negating the whole point.
Effectively allowing minmatar pilots to grind victory points until there are no amarr held systems left in bleak lands.
If this weekend is a crap as the last week has been, I am either flying up to help Caldari or simply making a new character. I am not wasting my time being blobbed or telling people why not being on voice commns is stupid... seriously, there ARE people who think they can just tag along with the fleet. When they get left behind, they blame the FC...
We ain't in an alliance, PIE joined as a single corporation as it has been a single corporation for a long time now :) I'm not entirely sure however if any of the major amarr alliances have a properly set up alt corporation up and running as of yet either though.
maybe if you went cap in hand and begged nicely CVA might actually do something
Minmatar FW Corp recruiting |
Aeo IV
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:25:00 -
[34]
One of the major problems, I feel, with the Amarrians in the FW is that, in the first few days, the Minmater's had gone and holed up one or two systems with a massive blob.
Which would have been fine, had it not been for one or two yahoos in the Militia channel who kept organizing fleets (massive ones) to try to take back the systems. But, of course, the FC was rather green and they where almost all destroyed. A lot of players have become discouraged, and I don't blame them, but something needs to be done, I'm just not sure what.
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Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:29:00 -
[35]
Part of the problem is individuals don't make much of a difference. Of course as a pvp newbie you can throw t1 frigs at the enemy ganged up with people who you don't even know. But thats not gonna win the war.
Many of the minmatar pilots (as mentioned outbreak stimulus etc.) are pretty versed pvpers who join solely for the fun of killing. You will not beat these people with t1 frig blob mentality.
What you need to beat them is well equipped and skilled (both sp wise and player skill) gangs that actually operate as a team. You can't throw 40 strangers into a gang and expect them to do anything but die like flies.
We need more individual corps in fw that are used to act as a team and actually can bring it without external militia help.
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Keeves
Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:30:00 -
[36]
Well I think too many Amarr FW guys are too afraid to bring some decent ships into fights as are the FC's not making the effort to put up decent gangs but are just settling with 20 frigates, 10 destros, and a handfull of other pockets of ships.
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Zaphod Jones
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Myra2007
...You can't throw 40 strangers into a gang and expect them to do anything but die like flies.
Many of the fleets of 40 strangers from the minmatar militia channel would argue differently. Its just YOUR fleets of 40 strangers that die like flies.
Minmatar FW Corp recruiting |
Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:41:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zaphod Jones
Many of the fleets of 40 strangers from the minmatar militia channel would argue differently. Its just YOUR fleets of 40 strangers that die like flies.
Now, aren't you uber? Seriously i am impressed.
That being said most good gangs i've seen at work are actually small gangs apparently not strangers but corpmates working it out. But hey if you prefer to delude yourself so be it.
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Kainda Gordo
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:46:00 -
[39]
Another factor nobody has talked about yet is that the amarr started with less systems to capture in the first place. This naturally forced the minmatar into a smaller area and encouraged blobbing to a certain extent.
Right now there isnt one blob, theres just 5-25 people in pretty much every amarr system 0.o
Minmatar Faction Warfare Corp Now Recruiting |
Phyrr
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Acedias
Join amarr=) the fight is always more interesting when outnumbered so long as you don't throw your ships away by mistake. I wish minmatar or gal were less played so I could fight a slightly more balanced war but I guess with the current mechanics you may get more success splitting into small gangs/solo and frantically contesting/defending many places at once, could work to drive down the blobs. Or maybe amarr could find support from the caldari? Just an idea.
I look forward to logging in after work later, hope some of you amarr are active and up for a clean brawl
You missed a carrier kill mate 
Join us in the Exploration channel.
The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty. |
Greenbolt
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:52:00 -
[41]
I have to give CVA some credit here.
Most of the Amarr Battleships I have seen in the warzones have belonged to CVA.
So they do have an active presence in the area.
Ive been patrolling with corp mates for targets and have been surprised at the low turn out of Amarr roaming gangs.
Although we did find a PIE+ friends mixed gang that was alot of fun to fight. Our 8 versus their 20. (Sadly I didnt know that T2 cruisers werent allowed passed the gate until I got there). We took many an amarr scum with us.
Overall though I am seeing more groups like Outbreak, Stimulus etc fighting on minimatar squad in organized gangs than I am running into on the amarr side.
---------------------------------------------------
Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Misanth
Electro Fuels
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gorgan Sixfinger
Originally by: Misanth
Edited by: Misanth on 20/06/2008 15:46:02
If CCP's system wasn't poo we would've had at least this corp on the Amarr side. That was our intention, but because the high pop of Caldari mission runners our Amarr standing was low while the Caldari one was high.. i.e. the easy choice was to fight for Caldari.
Should just have let people sign up unless they were -2 or worse.
1. grind ONE person with good amarr standings up until he gets an important storyline mission.
2. kick all members apart from him, and complete his storyline
3. watch your average amarr corp standing surge.
4. join the amarr faction
5. re-join all the other characters.
I'm not an idiot. The problem was that we had people joining at a frequent basis (this corp is new, we broke off from another corp, partly to do FW). I.e. a few players daily, at different occations. And the ones in corp already wanted to kick off FW immediately. We were signed up instantly after FW was launched, I personally didn't even get to log in before we were in it.
As it is right now, most of our corp is old PvPers that right now spend our time mission running (over half of us for Amarr, ironicly), mixed with some FW. As far as I know we're not aiming to get high standing anywhere, it's not like a regular bigger sized corp that get high standing for JC's etc.
Good suggestions you put, but a bit misplaced. I still think the standing system in EVE is crap. I personally don't even capture bunkers etc because i dont' want to risk permenent damage with Gallente/Minmatar. I just want the PvP in FW. No missions, no bunker, just roaming pew pew. My corp is mostly the same afaik. The standings on many of us is low because we're not mission running fulltimers with social skills, we're more combat pilots, as well, which makes it worse. Yes, I have a grudge with CCP for having a poor standing system. It's not forgiving for standings drop, it's way too easy to gain standings, and it's affecting way too much things both on a corp- and a personal level.
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Banni Vinda
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gorgan Sixfinger
1. grind ONE person with good amarr standings up until he gets an important storyline mission.
2. kick all members apart from him, and complete his storyline
3. watch your average amarr corp standing surge.
4. join the amarr faction
5. re-join all the other characters.
6. Watch as your corp standing falls to the average of all its members
7. Get kicked out of the FW alliance once the corp standing drops too low |
Gorgan Sixfinger
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
Originally by: Gorgan Sixfinger
1. grind ONE person with good amarr standings up until he gets an important storyline mission.
2. kick all members apart from him, and complete his storyline
3. watch your average amarr corp standing surge.
4. join the amarr faction
5. re-join all the other characters.
6. Watch as your corp standing falls to the average of all its members
7. Get kicked out of the FW alliance once the corp standing drops too low
Unless you make use of the time you DO have, and fix the standings.
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Banni Vinda
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:25:00 -
[45]
Fair point. I guess once you're signed up, spend some time capping plexes, and that could help improve your situation. |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:12:00 -
[46]
Quote:
BUT since this is as stated above not Amarr vs Minmatar, your ally has by far the HIGHEST playercount of all races
Pfffft 25% of the Caldari militiamen are alt spies of people in other FW factions who spend their time giving out hilariously bad fitting advice which is gratefully accepted by the newbs.
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Acidictadpole
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
And lets not forget amarr is fighting fleets of nano ships with high resist to their dmg type.
not easy killing someone when you are moving 2m/s after being tripple webbed by 5 huginns whilst the vagabonds and hurricanes chew you up.
Last I checked you weren't limited to having your racial ships in the militia you're fighting for.. Get your own huginns ffs.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Acidictadpole
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
And lets not forget amarr is fighting fleets of nano ships with high resist to their dmg type.
not easy killing someone when you are moving 2m/s after being tripple webbed by 5 huginns whilst the vagabonds and hurricanes chew you up.
Last I checked you weren't limited to having your racial ships in the militia you're fighting for.. Get your own huginns ffs.
I see this response a lot, and frankly, it's idiotic. Amarr players who want to fly the ships of their race should not be told they are hopelessly gimp and need to switch to another race to compete.
If that's a model you're comfortable with, let's nerf all Minmatar ships into the ground and when people complain, we can tell them to go fly Amarr instead.
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Daziel Iaar
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:24:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Acidictadpole
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
And lets not forget amarr is fighting fleets of nano ships with high resist to their dmg type.
not easy killing someone when you are moving 2m/s after being tripple webbed by 5 huginns whilst the vagabonds and hurricanes chew you up.
Last I checked you weren't limited to having your racial ships in the militia you're fighting for.. Get your own huginns ffs.
PIE are limited to Amarr ships only, just to add.
Templar Lieutenant of the 24th Crusade
"His Will Be Done" |
Annwe
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:42:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Annwe on 20/06/2008 20:45:31
Edited by: Annwe on 20/06/2008 20:44:29
I am an Amarrian fighting for the Caldari faction because I could not find an Amarrian faction based corporation.
I am a new player/character (returning from a couple years ago-starting over) and my corp choice was cirtical to which side I was going to fight on.
1. I needed a corp to give me the standings to go FW as I didn't want to take the time to get my standing up. (for the record, I fly cheap, but smartly fitted Executioners, I can loose these all day long and not take a big financial hit--I intend on being quite an annoying little bee on the battlefield).
2. I also wanted to join FW in a corp to have a little more organization.
3. The only corps available for me were going Caldari because of the shear numbers of Caldari players. Finding an Amarrian FW corp that would take me proved difficult.
4. Now that I see how things are working out, I am glad I am fighting on the Caldari side as I think I would get exceedingly frustrated trying to fight for Amarr.
I fight for the Caldari while running missions for the Caldari Navy. My current agent is only 13 jumps form the beginning point into Caldari FW. I leave my little fleet of Executioners in Caldari space and shuttle back and forth to Amarr when I want to do my Amarr missions.
Finally, I could not image how frustrating it must be to be fighting for Amarr, while not being in a corp, against numerous organized Minmatar FW corporations.
My fix...I think this would work better if the Alliance between the Minmatar and the Gallente and the Amarr and the the Caldari produced 2 factions instead of 4. 1 Minmatar/Gallente militia and 1 Amarr/Caldari militia. A .5 standing with either of the factions on one particular side would give you our your corporation admittance.
I think this solution would balance out all of the issues addressed in this thread.
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Aidan Ordway
The Reappropriation Committee
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:54:00 -
[51]
To me it seems that a lot of players fail to realize what the term "Factional Warfare" actually means. It means one faction against another. It means you are fighting for the faction YOU support.
I personally support Amarr. I'm an Amarr character. I love Amarr ships. Just because I'm forced to do a single type of damage as my primary source of damage doesn't mean I should have to resort to flying other ships to be effective.
From my understanding, one of the basic advantages the Minmatar have is in their weapon systems. They can do far more types of damage with projectile weapons, and if they're going up against Amarr ships, they can simply tank for EM/Thermal and do very well against most of our fleets.
I'm Amarr. I *want* to fly Amarr. I want to hold up an Amarrian Flag and show my patriotism for the faction I want to fly for. And the only way to do so in my opinion is to fly an Amarrian ship. It's natural to want to fly the ships your navy utilizes.
But currently because I want to fly Amarr I'm going to be significantly less effective in PvP because of the limitations of our single damage type, and the ease of effectively limiting our DPS by tanking for that damage type. Why should I have to rely on other races to do damage? What does that make me? A flying piece of metal that's only useful as a target?
This is something CCP probably thought of, but didn't consider to be as big of a problem until now, when the Minmatar outnumber the Amarr and are showing how easy it is to take out our ships, when it's far more difficult for us to tank for what sort of damage they plan to do.
(If any of this is wrong, feel free to correct me. This is only from my own observations. I don't claim this to be 100% true.)
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Faife
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:04:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aidan Ordway
From my understanding, one of the basic advantages the Minmatar have is in their weapon systems. They can do far more types of damage with projectile weapons, and if they're going up against Amarr ships, they can simply tank for EM/Thermal and do very well against most of our fleets.
way too many non-amarr ships in FW for that to work.
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Aidan Ordway
The Reappropriation Committee
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Aidan Ordway
From my understanding, one of the basic advantages the Minmatar have is in their weapon systems. They can do far more types of damage with projectile weapons, and if they're going up against Amarr ships, they can simply tank for EM/Thermal and do very well against most of our fleets.
way too many non-amarr ships in FW for that to work.
Not saying there arn't those who fly other racial ships. But the question was people flying *Amarr* ships and how those were having trouble. If you know you're going to go up against an Amarrian flying his own racial ship, then you know what to tank for. This is where players who create alts to spy on the opposite FW channel come into play (Instead of using Covert Ops, which is what I've heard of as the 'legal' was).
But other people do fly other races. No question about that. So then the ultimate issue comes down to the size and experience of a lot of Amarrian pilots, I suppose.
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Drama Kirlan
Severance Limited
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:39:00 -
[54]
And when you go against a gallente fleet you know you should tank against thermal and kin. Oooh and when you go against Caldari you tank for Kinetic!!
Stop whineing about em/therm it's fine. Anyone purely tanking against that is a moron and will lose there ship. Or are you forgeting that amarr are the second highest in terms of Drones?
Amarr have some fantasic ships. That matari fleet shooting you with projectiles? Use tracking disrupters. With the recent em/exp nerf your lasers really shine.
Now dont get me wrong I feel bad about the Amarr and half want to join them just for the fun. Looking at the matari militia it's true theirs a lot of numbers but only a few who have the skills to be a problem. You'll see most of the fleets made up of badly fit T1 stuff. Last night we popped a carrier that was pirating on a gate. There were 2 or 3 BS and a ass ton of frigates. I'd be more worried in a few months when those noobs start flying and fitting decent stuff
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rValdez5987
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:43:00 -
[55]
I have had a lot of fun picking the minmatarrs off solo. Overall as a single pilot i capture more plexes in both amarr and minmatarr space then I lose... and kill alot more then I lose... however I am only one pilot. My overall effect on the war is next to null when the vast majority are getting killed.
With every system they take it gets harder to take more, while it gets easier to take systems for us. The question is, when will the momentum shift. Give it a month or two.
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Habraka
Canes Pugnaces
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Acidictadpole
Last I checked you weren't limited to having your racial ships in the militia you're fighting for.. Get your own huginns ffs.
Ok, I'll just sit here in station for the following months while training up the Minmatar skills. So if I want to fight for the Amarr in Faction Warfare, I actually have to fly other race's ships in order to compete.
Great advice.
The Amarr will get orginased, they will strike back and they will kill a lot of Minmatar. Thing is it will only take a few months.
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Dorah Hawkwing
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:12:00 -
[57]
Great ships for Amarr to fly with even low skills:
Crucifier: 2 Tracking disruptors, with sensor enhancers in low = 90 km's lock rage with a 3 day old char. And a drone bay.
Inquisitor: Don't want to fire EM? Well, it has a decent bonus to all other missile damages too. 3 standard missiles help.
Executioner. Nos, web/disrupt, mwd. repper.. get close, hold them, nuke their cap.
Punisher? Just don't mix guns.
Coercer: Fit with dual light beams, passive tank. Great ship, kills nano-anything wich comes in range if you're ina crowd of them.
I leave cruisers to other people, but honestly a fleet of arbitrators should pose severe problems for others even though they are only T1 ships.
Amarr has ewar, and with latest boost to tracking disruption, falloff on the autocannons and artillery gets a serious ... disruption.
hmm.. maybe I should do the 'training corp' after all I've been thinking about.
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Shagrath Neptune
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:13:00 -
[58]
Originally by: rValdez5987
I have had a lot of fun picking the minmatarrs off solo. Overall as a single pilot i capture more plexes in both amarr and minmatarr space then I lose... and kill alot more then I lose... however I am only one pilot. My overall effect on the war is next to null when the vast majority are getting killed.
With every system they take it gets harder to take more, while it gets easier to take systems for us. The question is, when will the momentum shift. Give it a month or two.
This was pretty much what I felt regulated into doing during my last few days in the Amarr militia. It was basically go around solo and pick off Minimater noobs who made the mistake of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and were solo or duos. It was fun for awhile but then you realize that you really aren't helping your faction much.
The last straw for me was asking for a fleet in the Miltia channel and being greeted by crickets even though I had a T2 fitted BC ready to go. Then listening to people argue over which voice coms to use and being told there is a separate channel for fleet invite but nobody was in it. The chatter in the militia channel was typically some scout reporting there are 60 minis in Kour and everyone sighing in frustration but not doing anything or not being able to do anything about it.
Being a former Amarr lvl 4 mission runner, I have high standing with both Amarr and Caldari and my Gallente standing wouldn't take that much effort to repair. I am trying to decide which militia to go to fight for instead of Amarr. It is just too disorganized and joining an Amarr corp usually requires you to be of Amarr bloodline and fly only Amarr ships. My character has 28 million SPs and is a Mini who can fly both side's T2 ships but I am of no use to them apparently.
To sum up, more trouble than it's worth.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:26:00 -
[59]
I don't think Outbreak and some former Insurg corps joining the Minmatar side has helped. As it stands, the Minmatar faction will have some very good pilots fighting for them. . .
All in all, the Amarr are screwed.
----
GO BLUE!! |
Natasha Zenith
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: My Julutschka
All the Ammarian talking abouot beeing the faction with the least amount a players: factional warfare is not a 1vs1 battle, means it is not Amarr vs Minmatar and not Gallente vs Calamari....so what IS true is the fact that you as a single faction have the lowest playerbase, BUT since this is as stated above not Amarr vs Minmatar, your ally has by far the HIGHEST playercount of all races. Perhaps it is about time to call out for the Caldari FC¦s and organize an united effort ?
The Caldari State have helped the Amarr several times inclueding the very first day of FW. As of late I dont think we have been helping our brothers in arms as often. Im sure there are plenty of Caldari that are more then willing to lend a hand when ever they need it. And lastly, last I checking I wasnt Calamari but infact Caldari. 
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