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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:04:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Drenan
Hopefully, the nano slaughter of noobs in Tama will finally persuade CCP to do something about the problem.
Everyone knows that the glory days of the nano will end eventually. Just bite the bullet and do it CCP. 
This.
Before Fw started, I had a feeling nanofaggotry would play a big part and the Caldari would be at a disadvantage because of it. I was hoping the nerf would come before FW opened.
Funny thing is, Gallente already had some of the best pvp ships int he game but I guess they need nanofags too in order to win. This can be attributed to their noobness.
You are so full of bull****, I'm laughing my ass off. Gallente have 1 nano ship.
Oh, and precision missiles are broken, fix them, everyone's happy.
Nano has been going on for a year, we've been through 2 (or is it 3) expansions and nothing has been done, I think they'd have done something by now if they felt it was out of line.
Oh, and gallente have the best pvp ships? Try flying amarr.
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:07:00 -
[32]
Edited by: baltec1 on 20/06/2008 13:14:31
Originally by: Antigonos
Originally by: baltec1
This can be blamed upon the nano gangs who infest tama....
Just because you see ships flying around with mwd activated does not mean they have nanofitting. Strange, the most gangs i am in are t1 fitted ships with normal pvp setups and maybe mwd fitted.
But i guess it feels better to invent a reason why caldari lose so many ships than to just accept the truce.
It is just the same like when people say that they had heavy lag when they losed ships. With Brackets of there is barely any lag in the fleetfights against caldari.
When they can fly from 150km out to on top of you in a matter of seconds then they are nano.
The number one reason why caldari will not go into tama even when they outnumber the camp 3-1 is because they are nano and its a waste of time trying to chase them. I cant start to describe just how annoying that is.
Not too long ago there was a single geddon on the gate but nobody would go through to engage it because a nano gang was in the area. That was their exact words...
I want to pvp but I cant take tama alone
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Cadiz
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:16:00 -
[33]
Just about any cruiser-sized gunship with some tracking bonuses - be they from fitting or simply built-in - can make a pretty bloody mess of nanoships that try to break off from an engagement and put some distance in between.
Seriously, just strap some guys in sniper-Eagles and have them load Lead instead of Spike. You will get results.
------
CEO, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Andrew shi'tra
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: baltec1
When they can fly from 150km out to on top of you in a matter of seconds then they are nano.
Actually, That would be what's known as "warping", you DO know that when you're outside of 150km from something you can warp to it, right?
Even if it's on the same grid.
So they sit 160 km out, And warp to the gate when a target gets in, No need for nanos to do it.
And what nanoship do you think could ever go 150km in seconds? even with 10km/s (VERY rarely seen outside of a tiny minority of ships (a few inties, Machariels, Vagabonds) it'd still take 15 seconds, Plenty of time to get out, even in most battleships.
Or did you think all nano ships do 30 km/s? if so, you're completely clueless. |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:25:00 -
[35]
Caldari need to learn how to fight smart. Multiple combat groups etc. You know you're facing nano's? On grid probing with covops, bait trap with remote repping bs. Kill their bloody drones?! so many different ways to neuter a nano gang it is untrue. Nano gangs are comfortably dealt with if you know they're coming.
Just be a bit more inventive. You don't just need MOAR ALPHAAA
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Furb Killer
USC Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:30:00 -
[36]
Everytime i have been in tama without a mob of angry caldari chasing me (so everytime gallente controlled tama), all the camps were done by non-nano'd ships.
Add to it that our FCs still are usually calling drakes primary, and you should have a chance.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 20/06/2008 11:54:36
I think they are losing the war because not many of them are bothering to score points. They just want to fight people. At least its been like that in the fleet ops Ive been in so far.
Sorry, that is allready gallente excuse, caldari should search another one 
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Andrew shi'tra
Originally by: baltec1
When they can fly from 150km out to on top of you in a matter of seconds then they are nano.
Actually, That would be what's known as "warping", you DO know that when you're outside of 150km from something you can warp to it, right?
Even if it's on the same grid.
So they sit 160 km out, And warp to the gate when a target gets in, No need for nanos to do it.
And what nanoship do you think could ever go 150km in seconds? even with 10km/s (VERY rarely seen outside of a tiny minority of ships (a few inties, Machariels, Vagabonds) it'd still take 15 seconds, Plenty of time to get out, even in most battleships.
Or did you think all nano ships do 30 km/s? if so, you're completely clueless.
why is it that these people ALWAYS show up when someone even mentions a slight dislike of nano
They fly in, grab a target and then bug out. Its a good tactic and works very well at the moment. The caldari militia is terrified to engage them and most don't have the toys to do anything about it at the moment.
I personaly have a snipoc with a range of over 200km and the ability to hit these things, but I need a fleet to protect me from close combat and that just is not happening. I do belive that some of these nano ships out there are going too fast but if I can get the chance I will make them pay dearly for having paper thin armour.
I have also said several time in this thread that this problem will in time fix itsel as more and more CM get nano ships of their own.
Next time try not to fly into a thread with your arms flailing and spouting "OMG STFU NEWB" and read.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Andrew shi'tra
Originally by: baltec1
When they can fly from 150km out to on top of you in a matter of seconds then they are nano.
Actually, That would be what's known as "warping", you DO know that when you're outside of 150km from something you can warp to it, right?
Even if it's on the same grid.
So they sit 160 km out, And warp to the gate when a target gets in, No need for nanos to do it.
And what nanoship do you think could ever go 150km in seconds? even with 10km/s (VERY rarely seen outside of a tiny minority of ships (a few inties, Machariels, Vagabonds) it'd still take 15 seconds, Plenty of time to get out, even in most battleships.
Or did you think all nano ships do 30 km/s? if so, you're completely clueless.
why is it that these people ALWAYS show up when someone even mentions a slight dislike of nano
They fly in, grab a target and then bug out. Its a good tactic and works very well at the moment. The caldari militia is terrified to engage them and most don't have the toys to do anything about it at the moment.
I personaly have a snipoc with a range of over 200km and the ability to hit these things, but I need a fleet to protect me from close combat and that just is not happening. I do belive that some of these nano ships out there are going too fast but if I can get the chance I will make them pay dearly for having paper thin armour.
I have also said several time in this thread that this problem will in time fix itsel as more and more CM get nano ships of their own.
Next time try not to fly into a thread with your arms flailing and spouting "OMG STFU NEWB" and read.
Because the whines are:
Unjust
Useless
Clogging up the forums.
This has been going on for a year, we've been through 2 (or is it 3) expansions, several patches.
What has been done? Nothing, I think this is a clear indication that CCP does not find it out of line.
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tenuo
Because the whines are:
Unjust
Useless
Clogging up the forums.
This has been going on for a year, we've been through 2 (or is it 3) expansions, several patches.
What has been done? Nothing, I think this is a clear indication that CCP does not find it out of line.
and that applies to what I said how?
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.20 13:47:00 -
[40]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Tenuo
Because the whines are:
Unjust
Useless
Clogging up the forums.
This has been going on for a year, we've been through 2 (or is it 3) expansions, several patches.
What has been done? Nothing, I think this is a clear indication that CCP does not find it out of line.
and that applies to what I said how?
I'll just quote you.
Originally by: baltec1
why is it that these people ALWAYS show up when someone even mentions a slight dislike of nano
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
Sral TBear
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:00:00 -
[41]
There are a few things here that is correct, and then there is some bull..
1. Lack of good euro FC`s check
2. Lack of sniping ships check
3. Lack of own nano ships check
And then there is what have been left out. Please check our fleets to se what these "monster" super blobs are made up of. 60% cruisers with low skilled pilots. They have jpined FW to try out pvp, not to be told that you need to train for this and that, leave that part to the normal alliances.
I might have to start frapsing here to show the rest of eve that that there is actualy some decent fair fights out there. Yestoday we even had a disater on our hands and almost lost an entire fleet, but noone mention that. ya ya you never jump into us bla bla bla this noon i was in a fleet jumping into tama to fight a gatecamp and that have not been the only time we have done that.
I just dont understand why people are taking the smack and whining with them from 0.0. Faction war is diffrent, its chosen pvp not forced pvp, everyone have there own agenda for doing it, they have that amount of isk to use just have fun with it. To many tears on these forums and to few GF`s.
I respect our enemy, i kill the enemy the enemy kills me. I have a budget to run by so i fly the ships that fits within that budget, and alot of caldarians are doing the same. C`mon all we have been at it a werry short time, but if this mud fight all ready have reached this lvl, the militias will end up as Gilitiasschwarm here..
go have fun....
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Tenuo
Because the whines are:
Unjust
Useless
Clogging up the forums.
This has been going on for a year, we've been through 2 (or is it 3) expansions, several patches.
What has been done? Nothing, I think this is a clear indication that CCP does not find it out of line.
and that applies to what I said how?
I'll just quote you.
Originally by: baltec1
why is it that these people ALWAYS show up when someone even mentions a slight dislike of nano
so you just going to ignore everything else I said about this being a temporary problem, giving prase to a nano gang and showing that I have ways of dealing with them...
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Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:01:00 -
[43]
Caldari just need to think about what ships they bring, i've noticed a sad lack of EW in Caldari fleets.
What we don't need to bring are expensive ships, sustainability>kd ratio.
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Vitriol17
Tacos Revolution
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:03:00 -
[44]
If nano's are so easy to kill for you guys, put your money where your mouth is, join the Caldari militia for a few days, and try and clear Tama of Invicta's Nano gang.
As it is so simple you will be able to get some easy KM's and scoop some nice loot, what more could you ask for.
(Lol I podded Richthugsta, because he killed my Tech1 Condor)
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Stela'Artois
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:04:00 -
[45]
What is odd to me is how different FW looks on paper than what I am actually experiencing when I x up. It screams to me that during some other time zones (as was mentioned by someone else earlier) there is a lack of leadership.
Each night I have logged in I have joined a fleet led by an extremely capable FC who it completely willing and able to fight, even at disadvantaged odds. It wasnt a huge difference, but he faced down a fleet of 60+ gallente malitia with 48-50 Caldari...the sum total was a major route of gallente forces with relatively minor losses to his own fleet.
The main problems I have seen have centered around people not joining voice coms and therefore having no idea what is going on. Relays help, but dont provide enough intel for people to know exactly what is going on. There have been countless times where the FC is telling us of an enemy fleet moving around that we are scouting...only to have a few noobs in fleet chat mumbling about "WHy r we wayting?.>!!" "I wantz to pwnz nowz!" or something stupid.
If I had to put a finger on it...if the Gallente are winning, it is only because the Caldari fleet commanders (even the good ones) are having less success herding the ********, spaztic, and lunatic kittins in their fleets leading to missed jumps, lagged fleet warps, jumping into hostile camps when not ordered to, or fitting stabs on a blaster boat.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Leora Nomen
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Well you are ignoring the fact that most of their ships depend heavily on missiles. Just because they have a few ships on their roster that do not doesn't mean the problem is fixed.
It is like when people used to claim Amarr is fine because it had good Recons.
and the problem with missiles is ....? try hitting up some nano-ships with guns and you'll see that having a weapon system that doesn't rely on tracking is superior in this matter ... you know those scary vagabonds run and hide from a raven loaded on kinetic missiles and a target painter and ishtars run from explosive which by the way caldari can also shoot since they can use all four types of damage
Are you dense? Go spread your nubism somewhere else.. you try hitting a nano going 8K with misiles..
btw just fyi, painter does jack against mwd'd ships.. Instead of blabbing senseless hate based regarded cookie cutter replies, try adding something that makes sense.
Dumb forum alts...
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Cathojen
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Caldari need to learn how to fight smart. Multiple combat groups etc. You know you're facing nano's? On grid probing with covops, bait trap with remote repping bs. Kill their bloody drones?! so many different ways to neuter a nano gang it is untrue. Nano gangs are comfortably dealt with if you know they're coming.
Just be a bit more inventive. You don't just need MOAR ALPHAAA
There is no way to organise the militia. CCP still buzzing from actually releasing a successful expansion have reverted to doing nothing useful to keep the momentum going.
There is no FW forum, never mind forums for the factions so they can organise and spread information.
On top of that the Gallente now do have the numbers to give us proper fights, but the usual suspects are still flying nanos and ganking newbies and thinking they are good. It's starting to get boring now. The Gallente vs Caldari war is getting stale, and the Minmatar vs Amarr one is pretty much over by now.
Maybe nanos actually do need a pretty big nerf. It's allowing people to be complete pussies.
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Cadiz
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Viqtoria
Caldari just need to think about what ships they bring, i've noticed a sad lack of EW in Caldari fleets.
What we don't need to bring are expensive ships, sustainability>kd ratio.
If that's true, that's pretty saddening. The Falcon is hands down one of the best ships in the game. There is scarcely a gang out there that cannot be made better by tacking more Falcons onto it. Nothing will turn a seemingly even fight into a hideously lopsided massacre faster than one side having a decisive superiority in Falcons.
Hooray Falcons!
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CEO, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:12:00 -
[49]
From what i can see one of the best gallente participants is Invicta corp, and the fact that unlike 80% of the caldari force they are actually seasoned PVPers that bring the right ships to the battlefield.
It is just very hard to have T1 frigs and cruisers more so if they lack good FC-int to counter a seasoned well equipped gang of a good size.
Caldari need to either start bringing good setups, or keep losing ships for fun in bulk, until Gallente ppl tire of shooting T1 frigs :)
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Sky Grunthor
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:24:00 -
[50]
I'm hearing nano all the time and your talking about Invicta? They are some of the best nano gangs in my experience ever. Personally unless my entire corp who I KNOW is behind me.... I run away from invicta. You can't take invicta and make a broad nano**** complaint... they just know how to fly the ships too well as a group.
Once I heard the specific reason for this new NERF NANO NOW thing here disguised... man listen around... ask around. Invicta if you've ever been at war with them are GOOD at what they do. But they aren't everybody in the entire gallente militia.
You guys should hunt up some of your ammar breathren and get some long rang nuet/nos on them... that will take care of their effectiveness pretty quickly... you may not be able to beat them but you can drive them off.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
I'm hearing nano all the time and your talking about Invicta? They are some of the best nano gangs in my experience ever. Personally unless my entire corp who I KNOW is behind me.... I run away from invicta. You can't take invicta and make a broad nano**** complaint... they just know how to fly the ships too well as a group.
Once I heard the specific reason for this new NERF NANO NOW thing here disguised... man listen around... ask around. Invicta if you've ever been at war with them are GOOD at what they do. But they aren't everybody in the entire gallente militia.
You guys should hunt up some of your ammar breathren and get some long rang nuet/nos on them... that will take care of their effectiveness pretty quickly... you may not be able to beat them but you can drive them off.
Well that's exactly the point, they are a good core of great players to aid a militia, and have the entire corp in there, so they ARE a great aid. For caldari i am still to find one that is as effective or perhaps on a similar level. People are just too scattered and without a purpose there, woohoo, moar kestrels and caracals.. :)
There sure are ways to counter nano, but the ppl involved somehow are obviously lacking the skills. There could be a few fleets organized and moved together, one or two being anti-nano, the rest just pure hitting power, however so far it hasn't happened yet.
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Sky Grunthor
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:55:00 -
[52]
Yah... the militia with the best organization is going to be winning. It doesn't even need to be organization on the militia level. if the corps participating have better orginization than the opponents they are going to eventually win because of that.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:33:00 -
[53]
The Caldari do not bring enough tacklers. They rely on a very narrow range of ships that makes them easy to kill. Bring more tacklers and divirsify your ship types.
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Des Garcons
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:39:00 -
[54]
Why the **** do ppl assume if your in the caldari mil all you fly is cal ships and all gal fed flys is gal ships. Are ppl really this ignorant?
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Misanth
Electro Fuels
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:46:00 -
[55]
My experience from FW so far:
* Caldari gather up at Tama gate in Nourv. Sometimes we have three-four people picking up x, sometimes none.
* Alot of people don't want to join unless we (Caldari) greatly outnumber Gallente, because they fly nano-, t2 and bs heavy, while we have alot of caracals and drakes. The players fault themselves for bringing the wrong boats, I know, but still that's the situation.
* We have more spies than regular players talking in the militia channels. Some have tried to make mailgroups, forums, etc, to work around this, but clearly the spies are more vocal than the rest and the lack of 2 things makes this hard to counter:
- No real leadership in a faction.
- No way to kick players out that are obvious spies.
This can be illustrated quite well by this;
- We have 100 guys sitting on Tama gate in Nourv. Reports come of 40 gallente, bs/snipe/nano heavy at optimals in Tama. Suddenly someone scream in militia channel "friendly carrier tackled in Tama, JUMP JUMP JUMP". A few nubs jump and die. The rest is now very reluctant to jump.
- ..or we get reports of 40 Gallente. Then someone say they leave the gate. Then someone say they are 75 in local. Then someone say they are 25 at the gate and 40 at station. Then someone say they.. etc.
Caldari simply won't do any good in FW because there's way too much NPC set up ships, lack of leadership, poor organisation, massive amount of infiltrators that not only spy but also disorganize it, etc.
As I see it, if you want to play FW, join any other militia than Caldari. I been in a couple of alliances, some with poor leadership, poor organisation, and obvious spies.. but this is like a Southpark episode with a parody of all the mistakes a group of people can do. It can't get worse than this.
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Praxis1452
Corp 1 Allstars
Consortium Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 16:48:00 -
[56]
whine nanofag whine. I often have a large problem with nano's but honestly I don't see the problem here.
Just because you don't feel like flying railboats doesn't mean anything. You adapt to your enemy, not make your enemy adapt to your playstyle so you can blob more.
Tracking disruptors work very well even without bonus' and can take sniping ships and nano's out of the fight.
You can fly your own fast ships. Crow w/ web? Any inty with web? If you manage to get a few inties who can actually get a tackle and are spamming missiles the ship will go down.
The problem is lack of organization. It's basic gameplay. People can't call targets well, they can't really focus fire. Even if a few inties manage to get a tackle they'll probably pop the inty before the blob can actually switch fire etc and yes my alt is in the caldari milita. I thought it'd be cool but... not really.
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ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it" |
Fehyd Rautha
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:01:00 -
[57]
A couple of things here I would like to add. I tend to play around midnight EVE time, and I have yet to see a Gallente nano gang. Just because a ship has a MWD, it doesn't perse mean it has a nanosetup. Also, only a few Gallente ships are suitable as a nanoboat.
I've been going around in Tama for the last couple of days now, and the reason why Caldari cant deal with Gallente gangs is because all you guys bring is Caracels and Drakes. Add to that there theres no decent FCing going on.
Don't tell me all you guys are trained purely caldari ships, and missiles. Caldari use rails as well, and cross training to another race's ships takes no time for the older players. In fact, if you are an older player who likes PvPing, you should have done so already.
Add a couple of cepters to your gangs, and youll be bagging kills in no time.
As for us Gallente people on the other side. Our we bring a ceptor if the FC asks it, we bring fast ships if the FC asks it, we bring slower heavy hitting ships, if that is what the group needs.
You guys just need to get your asses in gear really, and shape it. That is all I can say. :)
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Misanth
Electro Fuels
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:18:00 -
[58]
..for the people whining about the "nanofag whiners", just want to set the record straight right off; one problem for Caldari right now is nano-/sniping Gallente. That does mean there's anything wrong with nano! But it does mean there's a problem for Caldari, right now, with nano.
When you have a Caldari blob of 100 people that are reluctant to jump through gates even when outnumbering Gallente 3 to 1, because Caldari run t1 caracals/drakes and Gallente use t2/bs to get range/speed advantages, it's really hard to counter it. You can try FC the group and organize scouting, get warp-in points, try to tell people to use other ships, etc etc.. but at the end of the day, you'd be much better off getting your own elite pvp corp inside the militia and fight on your terms.
Right now, the Gallente simply outskill Caldari. Nano is not an issue as it is, nano is an issue vs underskilled, unorganized, inexperienced, and massively infiltrated blobs that can't organize themselves. Compare with BRUCE vs PL. Underskilled, inexperienced, poorly (some decent FCs and players, but poorly managed leadership and players that refuse to play what's not in the textbook: read mk3) organized blobs, facing t2/nano/sniping groups that fight at a 1:3 or 1:2 ratio and still win. Not to mention their streaming audio of BRUCE vent is a good comparison to the spies relaying and disorganising in the Caldari militia chat.
I repeat; Nano in itself is not an issue. But it's creating problems in the Militia, and it's hard to counter those problems as you can't really take command and demand stuff out of the nubs in there. That's why it's highly relevant to list nano as a "problem" for Caldari, because it is a problem.
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Lilith Velkor
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:31:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 20/06/2008 17:34:25
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I've noticed something about the Caldari FW people in general that I dislike. They tend to fly what they bring, not fly what they need to fly - as such, they get mauled by nano gangs. Every time I enter Tama with a fleet, I manage to drop a couple expensive things with dual polycarbs, simply because I brought an anti-nano pulse snipoc - but when I recommend the setup, I get screamed at because it has just plates and no reps on. Eh, I tried my best... if they're content to keep losing their caracals and feroxes as nanos run circles around them that's their business.
This. Torp-Ravens are not the tool to combat nanos and will never be, but people are slow to learn it seems. Snipers anyone? Failing to understand how to setup a balanced gang can only lead to disaster even if its 200 of them.
On a side note, I wonder why caldari use so little ecm, one would think every 2nd ship is a falcon like in small gang pvp.
Edit: your foe using the expensive nano-fits will turn out to be a double-edged blade as soon as you manage to drop a few of them while only loosing comparatively cheap throwaway fits.
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Tojo Chigurh
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:38:00 -
[60]
I have a corollary question then.
Bottom line, the gallente militia is more experienced than the caldari. Why? Is it because experienced pvp corps are only joining the gallente or are the ships better? I'm inclined to believe the former.
Which means the key to turning the war is to somehow get pvp corps to join caldari, which I assume they won't because of the obvious n00bish connotation of fighting for caldari.
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