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Are the caldari losing the war?

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Uzume Ame Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.20 21:58:00 - [61] Edited by: Uzume Ame on 20/06/2008 22:04:07 Originally by: Fehyd Rautha Don't tell me all you guys are trained purely caldari ships, and missiles. Caldari use rails as well, and cross training to another race's ships takes no time for the older players. In fact, if you are an older player who likes PvPing, you should have done so already. I'm not gonna complain bout nanos & crapp but man, this makes non sense at all so stop it guys. You SHOULDN'T train otehr race ships to pvp, if you have to, it's unbalanced. So leave that argument alone plz. An other thing is organisation, correct fitting etc. I haven't played FW yet but caldari has good ships, and drakes & caracls are not bad if you fit them well, indeed are nice ships, but ffs, use tacklers & inties, use snipers (caldari has best bonus for sniping with railguns, rokh anyone?) & get your act together, if it's really as bad as others are saying. ALSO it's a SHAME if Caldari aren't using their best tool: ECM, a strong ECM fleet can make any nanofagot useless. Stop crying and start using it. p.s: apart of telling other people to crosstrain or whatever being a no-brainer, it's cool that militias are mostlly equipment from their factions (also if they could use usefull pvo fits too, that would be win), even characters being from that race too, it adds to the flavour of FW and RP IMO. but is fine if someone on caldari militia want to fly gallente. Teh failure of a signature.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.20 22:02:00 - [62] Originally by: Tojo Chigurh I have a corollary question then. Bottom line, the gallente militia is more experienced than the caldari. Why? Is it because experienced pvp corps are only joining the gallente or are the ships better? I'm inclined to believe the former. Which means the key to turning the war is to somehow get pvp corps to join caldari, which I assume they won't because of the obvious n00bish connotation of fighting for caldari. The CM are learning rather quickly. The problem is that its going to take time for them to train the skills they need and get used to a new way of playing. Having FC's such as Boromor and Violant Scorn is going to be a massive help with the training.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.20 22:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edit: your foe using the expensive nano-fits will turn out to be a double-edged blade as soon as you manage to drop a few of them while only loosing comparatively cheap throwaway fits. Bingo bango. To the Caldari FW guys reading this, a piece of humble advice, it's worked for us nicely so far: Whatever fleet you're bringing, make sure it contains the following five ships - three Apocs with megapulse, optimal range rigs, and a big HP buffer, and two logistics ships set up to repair armour and possibly boost turrets. Once you're in this fleet, you're going to be doing something interesting: not listening to the FC call primaries. He'll call primaries based on how many people's firepower he can get on a nearby target. You're not going for nearby targets, you're going for the distant, expensive ones - watch your velocity overview, and target the ones obviously packing a nano setup. 3 apocs like that can pretty much wipe out a nano HAC before it realizes something has gone horribly wrong, and turns away to run, and do so in seconds, allowing you to move on to the next target. In effect, your fleet has two fire groups - the newbies under the command of the FC, and your fire sub-group, which targets independently. I haven't even lost one of these apocs yet. Most nano cruisers take a few potshots, realize I'm buffered to hell, and go pick on something softer while I am free to massacre them at leisure.
Uzume Ame Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.06.20 22:29:00 - [64] You don't need Amarr ships for that, Caldari could use Rokh, but may need more and the firepower is probably less. But my point is that you can replicate that tactic with other race. nice advice in any case. Teh failure of a signature.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.06.20 22:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Uzume Ame You don't need Amarr ships for that, Caldari could use Rokh, but may need more and the firepower is probably less. But my point is that you can replicate that tactic with other race. nice advice in any case. No, Rokh is not as good for this. Keep in mind that 425mm rails are a long range weapon, whereas mega pulses are a short range weapon which, on the Apoc, can be boosted to 100km optimal with very cheap t2 gear and t1 rigs. The amazing tracking is what makes this work, and it won't work nearly as well with another gun. I can regularly land 8 out of 8 gun hits per salvo on a laterally moving nanoHAC at 100-120km range - and best of all, unlike 425mm rails, if someone gets all up in my grill, I can switch to AN MF and butcher them at 5km range. The Apoc is cheaper, too.
Gamesguy Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.20 23:12:00 - [66] Or you can just use blasters and load null, which hits to like 30km on the rokh, has better tracking too.
kessah Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.06.20 23:19:00 - [67] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edit: your foe using the expensive nano-fits will turn out to be a double-edged blade as soon as you manage to drop a few of them while only loosing comparatively cheap throwaway fits. Bingo bango. To the Caldari FW guys reading this, a piece of humble advice, it's worked for us nicely so far: Whatever fleet you're bringing, make sure it contains the following five ships - three Apocs with megapulse, optimal range rigs, and a big HP buffer, and two logistics ships set up to repair armour and possibly boost turrets. Once you're in this fleet, you're going to be doing something interesting: not listening to the FC call primaries. He'll call primaries based on how many people's firepower he can get on a nearby target. You're not going for nearby targets, you're going for the distant, expensive ones - watch your velocity overview, and target the ones obviously packing a nano setup. 3 apocs like that can pretty much wipe out a nano HAC before it realizes something has gone horribly wrong, and turns away to run, and do so in seconds, allowing you to move on to the next target. In effect, your fleet has two fire groups - the newbies under the command of the FC, and your fire sub-group, which targets independently. I haven't even lost one of these apocs yet. Most nano cruisers take a few potshots, realize I'm buffered to hell, and go pick on something softer while I am free to massacre them at leisure. This lads.
Marlenus Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2008.06.21 00:35:00 - [68] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Whatever fleet you're bringing, make sure it contains the following five ships - three Apocs with megapulse, optimal range rigs, and a big HP buffer, and two logistics ships set up to repair armour and possibly boost turrets. Once you're in this fleet, you're going to be doing something interesting: not listening to the FC call primaries. He'll call primaries based on how many people's firepower he can get on a nearby target. You're not going for nearby targets, you're going for the distant, expensive ones To anybody who may be putting such a gang together for the Caldari, I'm volunteering the services of a logistics ship. Convo me whenever you see me online. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.21 01:20:00 - [69] Originally by: baltec1 ... I want to pvp but I cant take tama alone[:cry: You're correct.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.21 01:33:00 - [70] And Caldari gang I've encountered, be they big or small is made up of the following ship types: 98% Caraboards and Drakes 0.2% Ravens 0.2% Crows 1.6% mixed ships of other races or types And of those 98% of caraboards and drakes, about 97.9% of them don't fit webs. They might fit scrammers, but that's it. As has been said before in the good Doctor's blogs and by people on the forums, the majority of the player base are Caldari in race and skillbook, and the overwhelming majority of that Caldari player base are mission runners. Check the KBs, so very many ravens with 4 hardeners, cap recharger and an XL booster in the mids with 3 CCC rigs. Not a cap booster, target painter anywhere. So very many drakes with 3 extenders, 3 hardeners, 3 purger rigs. My 4.5 cents. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2008.06.21 03:04:00 - [71] Originally by: Black Scorpio Are you dense? Go spread your nubism somewhere else.. you try hitting a nano going 8K with misiles.. btw just fyi, painter does jack against mwd'd ships.. Instead of blabbing senseless hate based regarded cookie cutter replies, try adding something that makes sense. Dumb forum alts... Great job taking it out of context and ignoring everything else i said. And your fleet tacklers are doing exactly what that these ships are doing 8K? Picking their noses? Use Rapiers for example. You do know these get a wefibier bonus right? Ok after Rapiers were mentioned some Caldari started up the whine again "Oh why do we have to train for another race?!?!". Ok use crows, use neutralizers, use your missiles, tp's i suggested to boost cruise/torp damage because nanos can't run their mwds all the time especially if you neut them. If you refuse to use electronic warfare of any kind, refuse to train and bring ships of other races and cannot come up with your own Caldari setups to combat nano ships, may I suggest talking to your level 4 agent because you know guristas won't come at you with 8K m/s vagabonds Originally by: Franga And Caldari gang I've encountered, be they big or small is made up of the following ship types: 98% Caraboards and Drakes 0.2% Ravens 0.2% Crows 1.6% mixed ships of other races or types And of those 98% of caraboards and drakes, about 97.9% of them don't fit webs. And that's your real problem here. guide to game time codes
Elfaen Ethenwe Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 04:20:00 - [72] we cause whines? god were good <><><>Together we gank, devided we pop<><><><> Kai made me a sig \o/
Kame Malice Mitsukashi Holdings Limited	Posted - 2008.06.21 04:28:00 - [73] Personaly, i dont think training to use another races ships against them is wrong at all. I'm currently flying a minmatar ship against gallente for caldari. I've seen Caldari fleets made up mostly of gallente ships, and we rock. i've seen gallente fleets made up mostly of caldari... and they fail... Fly what help you win is the moral of that story. if that means training something you normally wouldn't, so be it.
LOPEZ Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 04:29:00 - [74] I think people are forgetting the fact that a lot of pvp corps have a claymore, vulture, or a damnation in the back round with a character that has 6 months of training with implants, running gang mods none stop. Also very few people are fitting webs or scrams forthat matter. Take a bunch of frigs put a mwd and a web on them; send them all towards one person and see what happens :) The simple fact is, there is a lack of organization and understanding of game mechanics by most people. Revelation Eclipse
HakanSherif Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 04:44:00 - [75] Dig in those deep pockets of Caldari bears and bribe us. Problem solved.:P Est Sularus oth Mithas
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.21 05:32:00 - [76] Originally by: LOPEZ The simple fact is, there is a lack of organization and understanding of game mechanics by most people. He be correct. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Magnum III Journey On Squad	Posted - 2008.06.21 06:09:00 - [77] Who ever has more systems claimed is winning and that's that. The Caldari can make tyou think their anything you want to think about them but in the end they own more systems and that's a winning siduation no matter how many point anyone has. The Caldari claimed a sytem with less points in total then? That means the Caldari are doing pretty good. Gallente claim a Caldari system or shut it. lol.
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 06:27:00 - [78] Edited by: EvilSpork on 21/06/2008 06:31:49 Heres some ideas for the caldari guys to chew on. ideas that could pick apart most nano gangs. 5-15 crows/fast frigs with scrams and webs 10 blackbirds/falcon/rook 20+ drakes/caracal/cerb/anything that can put out some damage and not instapop. have 5 crows each go after the 4 closest targets and get them scrammed and webbed as fast as possible, orbit the target and try to stay alive. have the blackbirds orbit the gate or something.. just move around a bit, and dont stray, all the while flinging their ECM. then have the drakes/dps'ers start spewing damage. once the crows land a tackle on a nano ship, 1, 2 3+ webs and scrams and all those missiles incomming will be one very short lived nano ship. another option. 15-20 blackbirds + 30 drakes/caracals/cerbs/ferox/raven/etc etc etc what can the nano gang do if none of them can get a lock. these are just the first two ways i could think of for a medium size gang of low SP caldari only players could very effectivly laugh in the face of a nano HAC gang. the caldari WILL take losses, thats a given, but if excecuted properly they can drive off or even defeat a high skilled nano HAC gang easily. yes, i did just tell the enemy how to beat us. no, this isnt the first, or likely the last time we/i will do this. edit: edited for reading comprehension. i fail at coherent sentences
hi2urpod State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.21 06:55:00 - [79] Edited by: hi2urpod on 21/06/2008 06:56:28 Hmmm, Yeah there are tactics that are easy to use and it's pretty simple.I was on duty today and engaged invic a few times. Each time my set up allowed me to both save targets and shut them down from getting some of these cheesy kills. Now I say "cheesy" as they annoy me.However being as intrested in this FW as i am, i know we are dealing with 75% pvp noobies. All respect to any kills anyone gets,ou put yourself in position to get said kills.Some of the noobies that let people kill them as they panick or from lack of game mech rule(agression timer etc) just annoy me so I call them cheesy. See you out there Fighting for peace is like f00king for virginity... makes no sense.
Steamroll McGee	Posted - 2008.06.21 06:56:00 - [80] I've been disappointed by caldari using neutral logistics ships on the nourv gate in tama to rep their BS's.
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 07:00:00 - [81] Originally by: Steamroll McGee I've been disappointed by caldari using neutral logistics ships on the nourv gate in tama to rep their BS's. since when? either way, it wouldnt matter, if a neutral reps a waring ship/person they get flagged. so if what youre saying was true, the logistics ships would then be blinky to the gallente guys and would be killed.
hi2urpod State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.21 07:01:00 - [82] Edited by: hi2urpod on 21/06/2008 07:02:40 thanks evil.... that was like COAD type troll response..They are making their way to GD!! and Evil may be our hero! Fighting for peace is like f00king for virginity... makes no sense.
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.21 07:21:00 - [83] Edited by: EvilSpork on 21/06/2008 07:24:27 Originally by: hi2urpod Edited by: hi2urpod on 21/06/2008 07:02:40 thanks evil.... that was like COAD type troll response..They are making their way to GD!! and Evil may be our hero! i dont know what youre on about.. if a neutral reps a militia ship, he will get a criminal flag to the enemy(s) of the ship he reps. or are you refering to the guy blabbing about neutral logistics ships? edit: im not your hero. that same tactic has been mentioned several times in this thread already. i just spelled it out in plain english and in detail. best of luck putting it to use. if you guys pull it off we might just have to change our tactics
Phyrr The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.06.21 07:28:00 - [84] Originally by: Jones Bones Nanos are not your problem. I have yet to see a nano gang engage Caldari, or Caldari engage a nano gang. Your problem is FCing. We had a 40v60 fight against Caldari yesterday and they called primary alphabetically. But at least you fight. Us Minmatar have to leave our battlezone with the Amarr to find fights these days. Yea, we went high sec last night, some noob is gonna love that gate for lag/wrecks Join us in the Exploration channel. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Vechloran	Posted - 2008.06.21 08:05:00 - [85] On the perspective of the Minmitar side. I'm a almost 2 year old character, at about 30 mil SP. I started caldari, missles and all that non-sense, trained into just about everything except T2cruisers and guns. Then I started PVPing, oh dear god it was horrible. So about six months ago I started a minmitar alt and cross trained my main to minmitar. Both are in T2 cruisers with good gun skills and before FW I typically cruised around 0.0 with a rapier and a stabber/vaga. Come FW, I start with some cheap ships and so I have my main and alt in stabbers since I'm used to them and they have lots of uses and could get into almost all plexes and missions. First four days are great, I lose both stabbers in larger engagements as is expected if you get primaried or just lagged on a gate (got one pod out, other one woke up in station after 5 minutes of lag). My corp finally is moved into FW at this point and so were having more organized gangs run outside of the blob fleets. I decide to pick up a blackbird out of the corp hanger for LOL's and another stabber for the alt. The last 5 days have seen my blackbird cause more problems for the enemy then my stabber ever could wish. It's enabled my two ships to escape small gate camps by jamming their inty's, its completely shut down an armageddon while my stabber held it and the rest of the fleet soon arrived to annihilate it, and its a huge detirent to most solo-nano pirates roaming around the area. In short, I'm now seriously considering training caldari cruiser 5 to buy a falcon, or just start using a Scorpian if BS's get more usability in FW then they do now (only 1 size plex, and gate camping = not as versatile as the t1 cruisers). Caldari pilots should just trade out their caracals for Blackbirds, dps isn't going to change a ton, missles are junk anyway. Plus when the enemy fleet wants to pick primary, they'll have to choose from 50 blackbirds, and really, they would be lucky to have any ships able to shoot for most of the fight. Plus alot of the solo-gankers roaming around would lose alot of their interest when they consider not being able to do any damage for quite a bit of time and have to worry about reinforcements coming. So Caldari players, STOP USING CARACALS! Use your freaking Blackbirds and make nano-fits cry.
Nailus Wicked Crew	Posted - 2008.06.21 08:33:00 - [86] Edited by: Nailus on 21/06/2008 08:33:35 so mission fits dont work on nano ships, who'd of thought it
Segge Bolled Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.21 08:35:00 - [87] Originally by: Jones Bones We had a 40v60 fight against Caldari yesterday and they called primary alphabetically. @ alphabetical target calling.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2008.06.21 08:39:00 - [88] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Originally by: baltec1 ... I want to pvp but I cant take tama alone[:cry: You're correct. lol I loved that fight. I lost an apoc after getting primaried by the 3 carriers and came right back in an inbis since the station only had industrials and no guns. Gotta thank the gal's for bringing this one
FlameGlow State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.21 08:58:00 - [89] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Originally by: baltec1 ... I want to pvp but I cant take tama alone[:cry: You're correct. lol I loved that fight. I lost an apoc after getting primaried by the 3 carriers and came right back in an inbis since the station only had industrials and no guns. Gotta thank the gal's for bringing this one Ibis pilot still wins isk-wise, torp shot at him is worth more then his ship
hi2urpod State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.21 09:21:00 - [90] TBH calling targets A-Z or Z-A is NOT the worst thing in some battles( see: lag and other EVE fun times)[also get a clue].However it's always best to have a focus on your targets if possible. Fighting for peace is like f00king for virginity... makes no sense.

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