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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:12:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 20:13:43
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 24/06/2008 20:07:37
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
Originally by: Tenuo Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 17:27:19
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
You could just kill it's drones.
Just sayin'
or outrun them, I heard something about Heavy drones not being nano'd.
It's also going to have 325-375m3 worth of drones before it runs dry, and then it just runs away, unless the pilot is an absolute moron and decides to zoom in to web range for no apparent reason.
That wasn't what we were discussing, use one of the counters mentioned in the 1000 other threads about nanos please.
Also, the ishtar is absurdely broken on fitting. 3 gun slots and it can't even fit 4 guns? wtf? And try fitting mwd, dual mar and an electrochem along with tackle gear and hardeners and then try fitting guns. They dont fit, you can fit 2, leaving you with 3 high slots, not enough grid for another gun and certain not enough cpu to fit anything in the last 3 highs really.
The ship is limited on cpu and grid that it isn't even funny. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Dominatus Crispus on 24/06/2008 20:14:20
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Of course I ... like tinkerbell wings and fancy warp stabbed ships.
there i fixed it for you... :) ____________________
ravetrax.com ... player owned and operated |
Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Tenuo Also, the ishtar is absurdely broken on fitting. 3 gun slots and it can't even fit 4 guns? wtf? And try fitting mwd, dual mar and an electrochem along with tackle gear and hardeners and then try fitting guns. They dont fit, you can fit 2, leaving you with 3 high slots, not enough grid for another gun and certain not enough cpu to fit anything in the last 3 highs really.
Yes I'm aware of that, which is why I mentioned its hybrid damage bonus as being useless previously and should be replaced with something more useful.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on.
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Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:17:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on. Myrmidons can use 5 heavies and have spares?
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:20:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dominatus Crispus Edited by: Dominatus Crispus on 24/06/2008 20:14:20
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Of course I ... like tinkerbell wings and fancy warp stabbed ships.
there i'm an idiot. :)
You fail at life. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:21:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on.
Myrmidons can use 5 heavies and have spares?
No, but it can fit guns and get a higher dps if you do a double LSE fit on the myrm and put neutrons on and MFS in the low. Personal repping is a no-go in gangs and plateing a HAC goes against the concept of having a mobile BC like ship .... _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:24:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus You fail at life.
lol... your probaly right, but at least not as much as the guy who has played internet spaceships for 5+ years... ____________________
ravetrax.com ... player owned and operated |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:33:00 -
[129]
i'd like to have the kind of money these pubbies do, because i sure as hell can't afford to throw away an extra 75M ISK for a ship that tanks slightly worse, has half the EHP, and does at best 75 DPS more than the equivalent BC.
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Hurtado Soneka
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:39:00 -
[130]
nothing wrong with fast ships...
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:05:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?
Now how about Huginns with 240km web range?
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:07:00 -
[132]
The hilarious part of the 'zomg just boost webber range' people (idiots) is that their justification for it is that it makes minmatar recons less omnipresent in PvP, when in reality it will make them completely and totally overpowered and people will use them even more.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:11:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Haakelen The hilarious part of the 'zomg just boost webber range' people (idiots) is that their justification for it is that it makes minmatar recons less omnipresent in PvP, when in reality it will make them completely and totally overpowered and people will use them even more.
No but seriously, webbers should have longer distance than warp disruptors, it'd benefit the fights more as you can bring speeds down to get a shooting match going but people can still disengage if they play it smart. Also it being harder to bring someones speed down than completely shut down their capability to warp out somehow throws me for a loop.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
SirMoric
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:16:00 -
[134]
What I find stunning are the method missiles use for engaging targets, they simply point towards the target until they hit, like this:
Even modern missiles tries to calculate the path of the target versus the path of the missile to get a good hit, like this:
This would make the missile deadly against nanoships.... Unless fired from behind.... Or the ship alters course and start flying away from the missile.
just a thought.
rgds
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:18:00 -
[135]
Originally by: SirMoric seriously guys why can't you just make the drake the best ship?
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Steel Tigeress
Steel-Wolfs
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:45:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 24/06/2008 21:46:02 Its kinda funny how these debates sound just like all the ones last time speed was nerfed. All the Nano Domi pilots badgering everyone who claimed it was broken.... screaming "IT'S NOT BROKEN" right up untill they got the nerfbat.... Expect it again soon.
No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.... Which is why MWD's are not allowed in missions. The same principals apply to both, tank the damage or avoid it, or kill all opposition befor they can do damage.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:46:00 -
[137]
That's not why MWDs are disallowed in missions, they're disallowed in missions to make farming them harder. Would you stop comparing missions and PvP please jesus christ
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:47:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 21:47:50 Quote from Jade Constantine on SHC after the latest CSM meeting:
Originally by: Jade Constantine Nano's didn't formally get raised.
I had a couple of informal chats with the devs on the subject though - and they are seeing some nano use as a problem (up in the 8000mps+ bracket) where the game logic breaks down. And that ties into some comments that Mistress Suffering has made previously on these forums.
But its one of these areas where the solution if anything might be pretty radical with a whole bunch of knock on effects - like buffing ab's and making them the orbit module while mwds are for burn-outs and point to point travel. Its complicated though so no idea whats going to happen there ultimately. Reminded me a bit of the buff AF's discussion where ccp were saying this is an area that might need to re-write the webifier and scrambler logic first.
Its probably fair to say that "nano" usage in the 3000-4000 mps mark isn't much of a problem, whereas the snakes, polycarbs, drugs and heat fueled 8000mps+ stuff does break the game engine a bit.
They think that the absurd speeds are out of line which is what I think too, but the normal nano speeds are fine.
Does this mean we win Can i get a killmail or will it nano away? _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:50:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tenuo Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 21:47:50 Quote from Jade Constantine on SHC after the latest CSM meeting:
Originally by: Jade Constantine Nano's didn't formally get raised.
I had a couple of informal chats with the devs on the subject though - and they are seeing some nano use as a problem (up in the 8000mps+ bracket) where the game logic breaks down. And that ties into some comments that Mistress Suffering has made previously on these forums.
But its one of these areas where the solution if anything might be pretty radical with a whole bunch of knock on effects - like buffing ab's and making them the orbit module while mwds are for burn-outs and point to point travel. Its complicated though so no idea whats going to happen there ultimately. Reminded me a bit of the buff AF's discussion where ccp were saying this is an area that might need to re-write the webifier and scrambler logic first.
Its probably fair to say that "nano" usage in the 3000-4000 mps mark isn't much of a problem, whereas the snakes, polycarbs, drugs and heat fueled 8000mps+ stuff does break the game engine a bit.
They think that the absurd speeds are out of line which is what I think too, but the normal nano speeds are fine.
Does this mean we win Can i get a killmail or will it nano away?
:toot:
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:51:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.
Because I can already kite mission rats in a drake that doesn't even have an afterburner on it? Because it's easier than rebalancing the rats? Because rats are about as similar to real people as apples are to oranges?
Say what you want about speed in pvp but cluttering up the equation with mission rats is frankly goofy as hell. ___________________________________________
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:54:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Steel Tigeress No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.
Because I can already kite mission rats in a drake that doesn't even have an afterburner on it? Because it's easier than rebalancing the rats? Because rats are about as similar to real people as apples are to oranges?
Say what you want about speed in pvp but cluttering up the equation with mission rats is frankly goofy as hell.
Yes, and people already speed/transversal tank (same thing really) 0.0 belt rats. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:08:00 -
[142]
the op is right. nanos are so broken. the second FW came out the number of nanoships in eve multiplied by ONE BILLION. THEY ARE SO OVERPOWERED because the only way to kill a nano is to web it. There's no other module in the game that could kill a nanoship. I mean last night there was this 3.5km/s ishtar zooming around me at 20k. My raven was helpless to complete my FW objective solo... even when I brought my friends in ravens I couldn't STOP HIM!!
I hope people keep making threads pointing out this rediculous imbalance that no one can counter without webs.
Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head. -----
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:59:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:04:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
I'm fairly certain you couldn't kill Kery's hauler alt if he flew a shuttle into a smarty BS of yours.
Just' sayin.
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SirMoric
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:06:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: SirMoric seriously guys why can't you just make the drake the best ship?
Hmm, yeah, that would do it too
rgds
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:26:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
oh man, you must have. I lost it while autopiloting from jita to amamake and just went afk for a few hours.
So you're gonna admit that you're a pirate who is incapable of defeating the ALMIGHTY NANO or to make an intelligable post discussing them? You obviously aren't very good if you continue to not kill nano ships that stray into web range. -----
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:26:00 -
[147]
The problem is not range, but the fact that webs don't actually do what they say they do.
Webs are supposed to "entangle the target" in it's place. Instead, all they do is cut the max speed, and the target continues forward by inertia until it's out of web range.
They did the right thing with heavy dictors, affecting their mass/agility (don't remember which one), so that once activated, their actual speed rapidly drops. Same needs to be done with webs. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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supr3m3justic3
ACE'S OVER 8'S The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:31:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
epic lolified
OMG....ha ha ah lol.....lol....rofl....
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:42:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/06/2008 23:45:41 Webs are simply overpowered. Anything undersized gets murdered far too much with 90% webs, and it's preety much the only module which reduces a attribute by 90%, without a counter-module, either.
Long-range webs promote even more blobbing anyway (since it makes it much harder to run and much easier to tackle, even in ships which shouldn't be tackling; and imo, a cruiser SHOULD be able to get away from a BS-gang, they should be forced to bring and bloody well risk tacklers), and nerf most short-range ships on top of things. So, no. Too much collateral damage.
Originally by: ShardowRhino
1 kind of setup shouldn't be effective against all but 1 t2 ship of a specific race.
You mean, effective vs anything but: - 2 minmatar ships - 1 amarr ship (ever hear of the curse?) - multiple interceptors (which are cheap, anyway) - gangs (or solo-ers) with a specific warfare link - blood raider ships - ships with heavy neuts - any expensive configs with domination/etc webs
And, yes, other fittings/ships sometimes force you to bring X ISK to the table to kill them. Except that they're easier to just blob to no end.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:33:00 -
[150]
Originally by: VenutianLoVe Pith makes very valid points, Ive FC'd versus many nano gangs and my fleet was diversified as hell and we still couldnt do anything about the nano's, cause the fact of the matter is that nanos dont fight fleets unless they have the favor, they run and pick and choose their battles, which makes them that much more annoying, its all about that gorilla warfare ;( I wish dictors could drop web bubbles also that would be fun ;)
I've bolded the important part here. OMG PEOPLE DON'T ENGAGE UNLESS THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE!!!!!!!!
what an insight. That's not a problem with nanos, it's a sound concept. -
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