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No skill queue becuase "otherwise people wouldn't play the game?"

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Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:06:00 - [1] This seems to be a main argument invoked against having a skill queue. If you're really only playing EVE to train skills, you shouldn't be playing at all so its a moot point. If you're training up an alt and otherwise not touching them, you're paying for an account (helping CCP) without using server resources (log in), so in that sense your alt is better than a regular paying playing customer. I really don't see the problem, besides possible programmatic constraints or time issues on CCP's side. While EVEMon/the API have helped immensely in character planning, it's still difficult and annoying to have to plan your day around a supposedly grindless skill system to maximize character skillpoints.
Tankn00blicus Cosmic Vacum Cleaners	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:08:00 - [2] Like I said it would stop all the people logging on for 5 mins to just switch skills, thus less stress on the server. The resources freed from this could then be used to produce more tacos.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Tankn00blicus Like I said it would stop all the people logging on for 5 mins to just switch skills, thus less stress on the server. The resources freed from this could then be used to produce more tacos. Or better yet, more beer for CCP staff.
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:19:00 - [4] be great to train at least a few skills in a que, maybe get a new skill out "Forced Learning" and lvl 1 - 5 is the amount of skills you can que damn bet thats been suggested a million times over the years
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:24:00 - [5] As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. _ SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
Damon Ra Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:29:00 - [6] It only needs to be limited to the skill currently being trained and 1 backup skill and no more. CCP could even call it your "downtime skill". But, they'll never do it so meh...
ceyriot Entropians on Vacation	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Hurtado Soneka be great to train at least a few skills in a que, maybe get a new skill out "Forced Learning" and lvl 1 - 5 is the amount of skills you can que damn bet thats been suggested a million times over the years This would be great! Faction Store - Killboard
Quetl	Posted - 2008.07.03 03:37:00 - [8] Actually would be handy... Even if it's to jog my memory, i keep forgetting what i had chosen to learn next (maybe i should use evemon properly :P) As for planning your day, well I tend to have 1 long skill on the go, i set it to that overnight (if current skill would finish during the night, i usually extra cautious with this, sometimes you do sleep in..) Anyways, this can also be used while i'm out for the whole day. Lets face it, everyone has a lvl 5 skill they know they should prolly lvl up, but dont really wanna wait a week + without any char improvement ;) (For alot of us, it would prolly be a learning skill. Is for me atm, on both chars.)
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:01:00 - [9] I was trying to find a 70+ page thread on this subject in a more pertinent forum. Could someone point me the way?
Tankn00blicus Cosmic Vacum Cleaners	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:05:00 - [10] Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 03/07/2008 04:05:14 Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch I was trying to find a 70+ page thread on this subject in a more pertinent forum. Could someone point me the way? 70+ pages, must have a lot of flames. Looking for CAOD?
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:14:00 - [11] Edited by: Amastat on 03/07/2008 04:13:37 Don't think I entirly agree with the topic - even if people que skills when their account is inactive, and stuff is being trained - eventually they have to reactivate if they plan to continue training. If people only ever login to train skills - CCP is not stopping them from only playing EVE just for the sake of training, they just breifly login, switch, and log out. It would make sense a queue is made - it would take unnecessary load of the login server. The queue system wouldn't effect wither or not people would choose to play, the only thing that will effect how much people play - besides their opinion of the game, their taste, schedule, and satisfaction with the game - is if CCP decides to drop the whole passive skill training system, and turn EVE into a XP based system - then everyone would be forced to play nonstop, just like everyone on WoW does. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Cpt Jagermeister Spacelane Ghosts	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Jade Constantine From my notes of the discussion it was pretty much a yes in the following form: Something like ... you nominate a Primary and a Secondary Skill. The primary is the normal training skill and when it runs out it automatically flips to the secondary. This means you get to put the short time-skills anytime you like in the knowledge that they'll flip to a longer secondary skill when they finish. This was seen to address the main problem of short skills finishing at odd times without giving into a formal 5-10 whatever stage skill queue that would just let people never need to login. I think we voted the fix a high priority so hopefully should see action on it soon. In the works i guess...shrugs i hope... from here : http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=779102&page=10
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Tankn00blicus Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 03/07/2008 04:05:14 Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch I was trying to find a 70+ page thread on this subject in a more pertinent forum. Could someone point me the way? 70+ pages, must have a lot of flames. Looking for CAOD? 25 page thread 17 page thread I'm not sure if those are the threads I was thinking of. I swore I came across one over 50 pages once regarding skill queue.
masternerdguy	Posted - 2008.07.03 04:57:00 - [14] rofl skill ques? if ur gonna be gone a long time train ur longest time taking skill!
Saracena Minmatar Infinatech	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. Exactly. Can anyone put up a decent argument to dispute this? I sure the hell can't. It is rude not to have it. Don't like Minmatar space? Put yourself on the contact list for hisec hidden asteroid belt bookmarks [currently operating in: Kador, Derelik, Domain] 2.5 per small 4.5 per medium 6.5 per large
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:33:00 - [16] i like the idea of the current skill, set it training and unless you cut in at some point it will keep going all the way to lvl 5.
Artemis Rose Eleckrostatik	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Saracena Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. Exactly. Can anyone put up a decent argument to dispute this? I sure the hell can't. It is rude not to have it. Because if it was meant to be in the game, CCP would have patched it in at some point in the last 5 years. This is not an old issue, this will keep coming up, and they have decided for reasons unknown, they don't want one in their game.Rude or not, its their game and we still play it. I'd rather leave RP and SP gains on inactive accounts instead of getting a skill queue of any kind. The thought of Carrier V or any other long skill being trained, and a few extra ISK being gained in research is quite motivating reason to return to the spacelanes. Its not a bad thing when experienced players return to play Eve. __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
temponita	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Saracena Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. Exactly. Can anyone put up a decent argument to dispute this? I sure the hell can't. It is rude not to have it. This is all part of the hurt the innocent in the name of the lame game. Sometimes in the effort to curb abuse, companies end up shooting themselves in the foot. I'm not saying there is a solution but there are so many gameplay limitations in Eve due to abuse that it takes a huge tole on the fun factor of things. But more to the point, some of the biggest restrictions CCP faces in Eve is that they are playing both sides of the law. And in doing so, adds even more limitations to there capacity to enforce of control areas of abuse within the gameplay structure. ex: you can't do this because of that and so on and so forth.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.07.03 05:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Khrillian This seems to be a main argument invoked against having a skill queue. You forget that the PCU numbers would drop a bit ... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 06:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. Or just let the current skill keep training until it completes level 5. This adds only a maximum of 25% to the offline training time but it completely solves the annoying "6 hour skill" problem. Thus allieviating those who are worried about character farmers who are too moral to use a macro. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.03 06:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Tankn00blicus Like I said it would stop all the people logging on for 5 mins to just switch skills, thus less stress on the server. The resources freed from this could then be used to produce more tacos. unless all the lats are logged in at the same time (i mean ALL the alts) then there is no server load problems :P ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Insidi Us Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.03 06:45:00 - [22] I'd be all for a 24 hour time-limited one skill queue. Like you set Cruiser 5 to your primary skill and Battleship 5 to your secondary. Only 24 hours of battleship 5 will be trained after cruiser 5 finishes, thus making it more convenient by not having to plan your day/sleep around EVE skills, without opening up any can of worms regarding long-term abuse/character farming. By the way, I really wish there was a way to tell where a post ends and a signature starts.
Confuzer Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 07:20:00 - [23] I really want this. Like now I am goin on a holiday for 5 weeks, but not all my accounts have long skills and most possible longtime skills are pretty useless. If I had a queue option, it would be somuch simpler. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.03 07:48:00 - [24] I do believe that at the CSM/CCP meeting in Iceland, CCP did say that we will have a primary-secondary type skill training queue. Meaning that you can have another skill waiting in the queue when your current one finishes. (Don't quote me on this. It might be a case of wishful memory as I can't find a post by CSM member to confirm this.) Originally by: Roxanna Kell You are insane.
Tharukan Desm'ar	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:30:00 - [25] Some form of skill queue would be handy. But like others mentioned. Limit it to one skill after the first, and make it unable to train past say level 3 and wont allow you to queue up skills past a certain rank or pauses after a certain max time.
Xercies Ravere	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:39:00 - [26] It would be great..and then i would not have to wake up in the middle of the morning just to change skills. I think it should be limited to primary and secondary, but i do not think it should be limited by level. Give it too me now. How did it go so wrong.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:48:00 - [27] Not having queue does bring people back into game and keeps them thinking about the game. Having long skill queues is not good idea from this standpoint. The major annnoyance is losing hours a day because of medium length skills. It does not really make you more hooked, it is just annoyance and could use improvement (short queue, continuing same skill to higher level). Still, if you are serious, you will have expiring auctions, finished factory and research jobs, market orders maintenance, that will happen at inappropriate times. So the training "whines" will not be all that calmed, rather shifted.
Zinras Caldari Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.07.03 08:57:00 - [28] Switching skills just as a skill is trained is EVE's version of power levelling, rewarding those that are actually in the game a lot (I'm not one of them, btw). If CCP added a queue they'd be powerlevelling for you. Seriously, what is it about that hour or two you miss while sleeping in on the weekend that bugs you so much? And god forbid you actually check your skill progress once in a while. You might be able to know that if you have to get up at 7 am and your skill finishes at 6 am, you could train another skill for an hour while you're playing and then start the skill mentioned first so it would finish at 7 am! And heavens forbid you start another skill when you wake up before work if there's an odd numbers of minutes left at that time.. You might have to log in and switch it at some point when you get home! Surely these meassures are too much to ask and it won't be long before everyone and their 99 alts will quit EVE forever to show CCP how wrong they are Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal CCP's best friend
shults Minmatar AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2008.07.03 09:35:00 - [29] That's why you have learning skills and implants to shorten the learning time or didnt some do the tutorial mmorpggamemovies.com
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Zinras Switching skills just as a skill is trained is EVE's version of power levelling, rewarding those that are actually in the game a lot (I'm not one of them, btw). If CCP added a queue they'd be powerlevelling for you. All I can say to this is: WTF??
Li'ttle'Gem	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:05:00 - [31] so you'd rather have a system where they scrap the training and have it were you earn exp while online ingame killing stuff woow those 15 days skills would take forever wouldn't they if your not logged on with a subscribed account.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.03 10:07:00 - [32] Logically speaking, since training bots exist, saying no queue because of farmers is not really that correct. A queue is not really needed even if something like dual training etc was done (you train 2 skill at once and your sp get split according to your attribs etc etc. This way you can train up long term skills alongside short term ones) Mathamatically, its rather simple to havea queue or dual training. The real reason for not having a queue, even a 1 stack queue, is perhaps because CCP have been more busy with other things. I dont think they ever redeveloped their queue (it even trains peoples skills who cancel their subs ) I think its more a case of priorities rather than anything else. -- Billion Isk Mission
Caiman Graystock Quantum of Solace	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:13:00 - [33] Old Man Star?
Kalica Kahn GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:29:00 - [34] I see no real reason for having a skill queue. Most games require you to earn xp to gain skills, eve doesn't. Stop your *****ing.
Zinras Caldari Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:30:00 - [35] Edited by: Zinras on 03/07/2008 11:31:05 Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind Originally by: Zinras Switching skills just as a skill is trained is EVE's version of power levelling, rewarding those that are actually in the game a lot (I'm not one of them, btw). If CCP added a queue they'd be powerlevelling for you. All I can say to this is: WTF?? It's true. If you have a skill queue, you level from 1-5 faster for less work (ie. you don't need to log in at any specific point in time to change skill and especially not if it's long skills - In essence, you don't waste any of the only resource you can lose, which is time). This is like comparing a guy who levels in another MMO by himself to a guy levelling in a group. The guy in a group gets exp much faster because someone helps him do it, like a queue would do it for you. While the difference between group and solo levelling is pretty extreme in other MMOs, it all adds up if you take the number of hours/days you waste over the years in EVE by being late. A guy who's online a lot to change his skill vs someone who isn't gets his overall SP up much faster over a period of a couple of years. Thus why I mentioned people are rewarded in the long run by being online more. A queue would take this away from those people. And given the number of people in this thread who wants a queue because they're afraid to lose a couple of hours every other day, it seems that there is incentive to change skills faster by being online. Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal CCP's best friend
Kalica Kahn GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:35:00 - [36] Actually I wonder how many of the people who want a skill queue so they don't lose valuable training time, have all their learning skills done and a set of +5 learning implants?
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:39:00 - [37] Originally by: Kalica Kahn Actually I wonder how many of the people who want a skill queue so they don't lose valuable training time, have all their learning skills done and a set of +5 learning implants? 5+4, +4s thanks. I don't want it because I'm worried about overshooting an hour or three on Cruiser 5 - the percentage hit on that is negligible. It's overshooting by an hour or three on a 6 or 7 hour skill that is annoying. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:41:00 - [38] They don't have it so people can continue to make this thread and whine about how horrible it is to miss training time so they aren't the most powerful lord of all internet spaceships. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:46:00 - [39] Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char.
Aurinkokuningas	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:56:00 - [40] Not about playing but it's good to give those who are more active something as reward => being better. Otherwise some lame idiots like you woudl be better than me I guess.
Kalica Kahn GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:00:00 - [41] Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. And a whole life time to regret training production skills on this character. What was I thinking
Mordred Shadow Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:02:00 - [42] I think the people this most effects are the new players, and this is why veterans get up in arms against the skill queue idea. When I first started I had a whole host of learning skills to do in a fairly rough order (what a blast it is to start in Eve!) and then I started working towards flying something fun and doing something interesting. And all of the skill trees all over the place were full of level 0s, 1s and 2s with short skill trains all over the place. In order to get somewhere fun in a short amount of time (to get over learning for the sake of learning) I had to follow a strict path to build towards level 4s and 5s I would need later. And it is in those first few months that wives and girlfriends (sorry female players) learn to hate Eve - because we log on first thing in the morning, or stay up late to change a skill, or ask them to change a skill while we are at work, or get up in the middle of dinner for a quick skill change. I don't have these problems anymore although a skill queue would be handy. My main frustration is with unexpected downtime, especially living in Australia. DT occurs at 9pm, just as I want to start playing. If I have a skill finishing sometime after DT, as in when I would normally be on, and then the server goes down, then I will probably not get to change it that night before bed, and then maybe the next morning either if I want to help with my 3 children and getting to work on time. I can sometimes lose 19 hours of training just because the server went down unexpectedly. This has happened multiple times. And when I had something planned for the coming weekend in my shiny new ship that I suddenly can't fly because the training didn't finish, then I get frustrated. +1 for the queuing system.
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:04:00 - [43] i find the lack of skill queue akin to not having a lock on a public toilet door. it keeps you on edge, but not in a good way.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:42:00 - [44] It's not about minuscule resource usages from people logging in for 5 min. (WTF makes anyone thing that's an argument?) What it is about, is one thing only; Make you addicted to progressing your character, thus keeping you playing EVE.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Mordred Shadow I think the people this most effects are the new players, and this is why veterans get up in arms against the skill queue idea. When I first started I had a whole host of learning skills to do in a fairly rough order (what a blast it is to start in Eve!) and then I started working towards flying something fun and doing something interesting. And all of the skill trees all over the place were full of level 0s, 1s and 2s with short skill trains all over the place. In order to get somewhere fun in a short amount of time (to get over learning for the sake of learning) I had to follow a strict path to build towards level 4s and 5s I would need later. And it is in those first few months that wives and girlfriends (sorry female players) learn to hate Eve - because we log on first thing in the morning, or stay up late to change a skill, or ask them to change a skill while we are at work, or get up in the middle of dinner for a quick skill change. I don't have these problems anymore although a skill queue would be handy. My main frustration is with unexpected downtime, especially living in Australia. DT occurs at 9pm, just as I want to start playing. If I have a skill finishing sometime after DT, as in when I would normally be on, and then the server goes down, then I will probably not get to change it that night before bed, and then maybe the next morning either if I want to help with my 3 children and getting to work on time. I can sometimes lose 19 hours of training just because the server went down unexpectedly. This has happened multiple times. And when I had something planned for the coming weekend in my shiny new ship that I suddenly can't fly because the training didn't finish, then I get frustrated. +1 for the queuing system. Best response yet. These are the kinds of reasons why a queue system is necessary. Because not all of us are living in our parents basement and playing 18 hours a day. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:55:00 - [46] Edited by: Andrue on 03/07/2008 14:02:29 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kalica Kahn Actually I wonder how many of the people who want a skill queue so they don't lose valuable training time, have all their learning skills done and a set of +5 learning implants? 5+4, +4s thanks. I don't want it because I'm worried about overshooting an hour or three on Cruiser 5 - the percentage hit on that is negligible. It's overshooting by an hour or three on a 6 or 7 hour skill that is annoying. They have these things called Timepieces now, you know ..and yes I'm aware that skill training doesn't always finish at a convenient time but that's where the player skill of good planning personal scheduling helps out. Just switch to another skill that ends at a more convenient time then switch back. It isn't always easy (as the 4.5 year player with a 65mil SP char I'm well aware of how tricky it can be) but I still manage it. If other people can't plan their skills and can't tell the time then it's their hard luck. If those skills are rare or difficult then I deserve to get a bonus for being good at them. Edit:I disagree with those saying it hits new players hardest. New players have a plethora of skills to train and can always find a suitable one to tide them over until the next log-in opportunity. I find that as a Veteran it's a lot harder because I have fewer skills that I want to train. I've resorted to just picking random skills at taking them to L5. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.03 13:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Kalica Kahn Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. And a whole life time to regret training production skills on this character. What was I thinking Heh, the Veteran's curse: I regret no choices..except perhaps I haven't mined or flown an Amarrian ship in over 18 months. ..so you see, nubs - not all of my 65mil SP are in use -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:16:00 - [48] The only argument I've ever seen produced was from CCP Kieron, which I soundly refuted (IMHO, of course) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=796470&page=1#1here[/]. Here, I'll plagiarize my own post: Originally by: Xaen Originally by: CCP kieron We are having a difficult enough time enforcing the issues caused by ISK and item sellers, let alone players selling characters on Ebay. We are not going to introduce another game mechanic that will allow 'character farmers' an easier time with their trade. This argument is brought up constantly but I don't believe it's sufficient. Character farmers can and will farm just fine with or without a skill queue, yet players facing real life emergencies, unexpected downtime, unexpected power or internet outages, or just plain carelessness suffer too. You know, your loyal, paying customers... This argument is like saying we should remove automatic transmissions from cars because it allows people to drive one handed and shoot pedestrians out the window. While true, I think it's hardly sufficient justification. It might be fine for you devs that are allowed, no, required to play EVE at work, but not all of us are so lucky. What say you, CCP kieron? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Zinras Switching skills just as a skill is trained is EVE's version of power levelling, rewarding those that are actually in the game a lot (I'm not one of them, btw). If CCP added a queue they'd be powerlevelling for you. No, "power leveling" in EVE such as it is, is accomplished with +attribute implants. I'm not going to justify the rest of your silly arguments with responses. You didn't bring up anything new, and I'm tired of countering weak, tired arguments. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:21:00 - [50] Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. Doesn't help a bit if you are: asleep at work on the road !at your computer in general tranquility is down your internet connection is down your computer is broken - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Viqtoria i find the lack of skill queue akin to not having a lock on a public toilet door. it keeps you on edge, but not in a good way. lmao Secondary lmao @ corp name. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Axel Yulaw Brotherhood of the Phoenix Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. Doesn't help a bit if you are: asleep at work on the road !at your computer in general tranquility is down your internet connection is down your computer is broken Being that we play EVE, where the hell is the option of "too drunk" ? :)
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:28:00 - [53] Skill queue is listed on "the drawingboard" so they are considering it.
linton strong	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:29:00 - [54] This thread fails
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:02:00 - [55] Originally by: linton strong This thread fails Not nearly so badly as your bump-with-alt failure. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:07:00 - [56] It doesn't even need to be that complicated. Skill queues greatest use would be for those 6-12 hour skills that end inconveniently between play sessions. Here's the flowchart for such a queue: Has the skill I chose to learn hit Level 5? No? Yes! / \ Then keep going Then go to my lowest trained skill and start there. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Threv Echandari Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Esmenet Skill queue is listed on "the drawingboard" so they are considering it. ^^ This For those that bother to read what's going on with the CSMs, this was on the "Big list" that CCP got and presumably are working on. They know we want it, AKAIK they have not shot it down but are actually going to do "something" so lets see how this plays out. Happiness is a Wet Pod
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Threv Echandari Originally by: Esmenet Skill queue is listed on "the drawingboard" so they are considering it. ^^ This For those that bother to read what's going on with the CSMs, this was on the "Big list" that CCP got and presumably are working on. They know we want it, AKAIK they have not shot it down but are actually going to do "something" so lets see how this plays out. Well its been on the drawingboard longer than the CSM has been in existence so i doubt that they had anything to do with it other than repeating it yet again to the devs.
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:18:00 - [59] Anyone could set up a ton of skills to train and then sell that account later
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Tankn00blicus Like I said it would stop all the people logging on for 5 mins to just switch skills, thus less stress on the server. The resources freed from this could then be used to produce more tacos. But maybe it's not bad if they log in, they might just want to switch the skill, but then see they have an evemail, or want quick reject a mission or someone in corp chat asks them to join an op, so they stay longer than they planned. The headline is strange, but yes, i will quit if there is a skill queue, because i like this moments when you just have turned off the computer and suddenly remember that your eve skill has like 5 minutes left. I like the decision you have to make: turn on the computer again or don't bother, since few hours don't really matter. This creates an additional thought process, which is good for the brain, as thought processes strengthen existing neuronal links, so in general it's good. Or not.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab What it is about, is one thing only; Make you addicted to progressing your character, thus keeping you playing EVE. I can't believe I had to scroll through a page-and-a-half of comments to get to this point.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:41:00 - [62] Edited by: Alz Shado on 03/07/2008 15:40:56 Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab What it is about, is one thing only; Make you addicted to progressing your character, thus keeping you playing EVE. I can't believe I had to scroll through a page-and-a-half of comments to get to this point. That Way --> //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:50:00 - [63] Originally by: Apoctasy Anyone could set up a ton of skills to train and then sell that account later Oh noes, think of the children! What's stopping them from doing this without a skill queue, exactly? Oh right, nothing. This argument is brought up constantly but I don't believe it's sufficient. Character farmers can and will farm just fine with or without a skill queue, yet players facing real life emergencies, unexpected downtime, unexpected power or internet outages, or just plain carelessness suffer too. You know, your loyal, paying customers... This argument is like saying we should remove automatic transmissions from cars because it allows people to drive one handed and shoot pedestrians out the window. While true, I think it's hardly sufficient justification. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Tyrannis E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:50:00 - [64] Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires] Screw that. People let long skills train after the account expires, because the training times for most of this games skills are ABSURD. That's CCP's fault, and something that has needed major overhauling for years now.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Alz Shado Edited by: Alz Shado on 03/07/2008 15:40:56 Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab What it is about, is one thing only; Make you addicted to progressing your character, thus keeping you playing EVE. I can't believe I had to scroll through a page-and-a-half of comments to get to this point. That Way --> I can't tell what you meant by that, Alz. (I'll add here that I am not in favor of a skill training queue and I'm only logging into the game to change skills due to technical problems).
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:56:00 - [66] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Apoctasy Anyone could set up a ton of skills to train and then sell that account later Oh noes, think of the children! What's stopping them from doing this without a skill queue, exactly? Oh right, nothing. This argument is brought up constantly but I don't believe it's sufficient. Character farmers can and will farm just fine with or without a skill queue, yet players facing real life emergencies, unexpected downtime, unexpected power or internet outages, or just plain carelessness suffer too. You know, your loyal, paying customers... This argument is like saying we should remove automatic transmissions from cars because it allows people to drive one handed and shoot pedestrians out the window. While true, I think it's hardly sufficient justification. Granted that the "shooting" part is hyperbole and does not make your argument invalid, the simple economic explanation for not allowing skill queues is that under the present system, if someone chooses to "farm" a character, he pays for it . . . repeatedly.
LordSwift New Eden Regimental Navy	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:57:00 - [67] Well to be honest you dont need a skill queue. I have been planning my skill training and find logging in for 5 minutes, change a skill and log off. use evemon well and there will be no need for a skill queue. i have not played much for ova a month and i have lvl5 battleship done and some other small skills for when i am online. I have missed loads of hours due to skill finishing in morning and im on work or on holiday and lost days of time. My loss and stops player grinding. no to a skill queue ever. Stop being lazy
LordSwift New Eden Regimental Navy	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:00:00 - [68] Originally by: Tyrannis Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires] Screw that. People let long skills train after the account expires, because the training times for most of this games skills are ABSURD. That's CCP's fault, and something that has needed major overhauling for years now. give me one good reason why CCP needs to change the length of some skills. Train your learning skills to 5 and get the highest implants. Better thank grinding to level up thats for sure.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:04:00 - [69] Originally by: LordSwift no to a skill queue ever. Stop being lazy AND GET OFFA MY LAWN! Stupid lazy kids today with their "wheels" and "fire" and all that other fancy crap. Soft, I tell ya. Makes me sick. When I was your age everything was annoying and inconvenient AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY. Simple fact of the matter is that if I've been doing a thing for years that right there is the only reason anybody will ever need why it should never be changed. ___________________________________________
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:07:00 - [70] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: LordSwift no to a skill queue ever. Stop being lazy AND GET OFFA MY LAWN! Stupid lazy kids today with their "wheels" and "fire" and all that other fancy crap. Soft, I tell ya. Makes me sick. When I was your age everything was annoying and inconvenient AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY. Simple fact of the matter is that if I've been doing a thing for years that right there is the only reason anybody will ever need why it should never be changed. My god you're old. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:09:00 - [71] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist My god you're old. And you know how I got to be this old? It's because 14th century medicine is FINE THE WAY IT IS. Anybody who says different is a spineless whiner. ___________________________________________
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist My god you're old. And you know how I got to be this old? It's because 14th century medicine is FINE THE WAY IT IS. Anybody who says different is a spineless whiner. Alas! I've been run through! Fetch thy maggots lest I fall deathly ill! __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:11:00 - [73] You'll be fine, you just need to get more moral fiber in your diet. ___________________________________________
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:11:00 - [74] wait, so there is more to this game than changing skills and waiting for them to finish? wtf? how many years have i been playing and we're just now finding this out?! i feel so cheated. You're doing it wrong.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Alz Shado That Way --> I can't tell what you meant by that, Alz. (I'll add here that I am not in favor of a skill training queue and I'm only logging into the game to change skills due to technical problems). Just pointing out that there are games better tailored to the progress addicts of the world. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:23:00 - [76] Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Alz Shado That Way --> I can't tell what you meant by that, Alz. (I'll add here that I am not in favor of a skill training queue and I'm only logging into the game to change skills due to technical problems). Just pointing out that there are games better tailored to the progress addicts of the world. Gotcha'. And I think the immersion-factor is not getting its due. CCP wants us logging in, and it should be obvious why.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:33:00 - [77] Originally by: Esu Nahalas CCP wants us logging in, and it should be obvious why. Be honest now: do you think CCP wants us to log in because we're obligated to by skill training mechanisms or do you think they want us to log in for the awesome gfx and stellar gameplay? Is the proper reason to log in "oh christ hang on let me set a longer skill then we'll go do that" or is it "hell yeah I'm gonna play me some Eve?" Maybe I'm missing something there but I don't see how nagging people to log in for 30 sec makes the game better. And for the record I don't really have an opinion one way or another on skill queues... they could be nice as long as they don't have an adverse affect on the game I guess. But arguments like "you are lazy and I am not ergo I am morally superior to you" and "nobody will ever log in" just fall flat to me. If the only reason anybody ever logs in is to change skills, doesn't that kind of imply that the game sucks? ___________________________________________
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:36:00 - [78] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Alz Shado That Way --> I can't tell what you meant by that, Alz. (I'll add here that I am not in favor of a skill training queue and I'm only logging into the game to change skills due to technical problems). Just pointing out that there are games better tailored to the progress addicts of the world. Gotcha'. And I think the immersion-factor is not getting its due. CCP wants us logging in, and it should be obvious why. I don't want a skill queue so I can avoid logging in. I want one for when I'm unable to log in. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Esu Nahalas CCP wants us logging in, and it should be obvious why. Be honest now: do you think CCP wants us to log in because we're obligated to by skill training mechanisms or do you think they want us to log in for the awesome gfx and stellar gameplay? Is the proper reason to log in "oh christ hang on let me set a longer skill then we'll go do that" or is it "hell yeah I'm gonna play me some Eve?" Maybe I'm missing something there but I don't see how nagging people to log in for 30 sec makes the game better. And for the record I don't really have an opinion one way or another on skill queues... they could be nice as long as they don't have an adverse affect on the game I guess. But arguments like "you are lazy and I am not ergo I am morally superior to you" and "nobody will ever log in" just fall flat to me. If the only reason anybody ever logs in is to change skills, doesn't that kind of imply that the game sucks? Be honest <i>now</i>, as opposed to being dishonest earlier? I agree with your assessment above, but little of it is accurate, yes?
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:42:00 - [80] Originally by: Malcanis I don't want a skill queue so I can avoid logging in. I want one for when I'm unable to log in. And I want a pony. Listen, people, you might get a skill queue someday . . . that's great. I hope it's limited somehow, because skill-training is one of the things that makes me fell I've made an investment in this game.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:52:00 - [81] Originally by: Esu Nahalas skill-training is one of the things that makes me fell I've made an investment in this game. OK, that I can buy. You get a certain sense of accomplishment out of having made the effort to successfully minimize your skilling downtime. Some guys get that from mowing the lawn; I don't agree. I think they're both a PITA waste of time myself and would happily pay somebody else to do either for me, but it's a point of view I can respect and an argument that makes some sense with respect to enjoyment of the game. ___________________________________________
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:54:00 - [82] Quote: While EVEMon/the API have helped immensely in character planning, it's still difficult and annoying to have to plan your day around a supposedly grindless skill system to maximize character skillpoints. Try playing an experience based leveling game and then come back here to reread your whine. Your perspective on what is difficult, annoying, and grindless will have changed greatly and you will realize that have one skill training without your input is a blessing.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:59:00 - [83] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Originally by: Malcanis I don't want a skill queue so I can avoid logging in. I want one for when I'm unable to log in. And I want a pony. Listen, people, you might get a skill queue someday . . . that's great. I hope it's limited somehow, because skill-training is one of the things that makes me fell I've made an investment in this game. Listen, if CCP sent round a ninja to try and kill you every time you tried to change a skill, then doing it would be an accomplishment. Skipping work or waking up at 3AM to change a skill isn't an accomplishment, it just proves that you have nothing else to do than EvE. Hell I just had an 11-month holiday and I still wanted a skill queue during it. tl;dr: there's nothing clever about enduring a pointlessly obstructive bit of user interface design. If I can queue manufacturing or research jobs, why is it bad for EvE OH NOESS!!!!1 if I can queue a skill? Why should skills stop arbitrarily before they complete? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:00:00 - [84] Originally by: Nicho Void Quote: While EVEMon/the API have helped immensely in character planning, it's still difficult and annoying to have to plan your day around a supposedly grindless skill system to maximize character skillpoints. Try playing an experience based leveling game and then come back here to reread your whine. Your perspective on what is difficult, annoying, and grindless will have changed greatly and you will realize that have one skill training without your input is a blessing. By that argument, someone could kick you in the nuts and you'd merely be grateful that you weren't dying in some horrible little African bush war. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:03:00 - [85] At the risk of being an overcaffeinated spammer: Originally by: Nicho Void Try playing an experience based leveling game and then come back here to reread your whine. Your perspective on what is difficult, annoying, and grindless will have changed greatly and you will realize that have one skill training without your input is a blessing. Eh... it's kind of a double- edged sword really. Yes, the game advances my character while I'm AFK. On the other hand though, with a level- by- playing system the game goes away when you log out and you needn't think about it until you're ready to actually play again. The trade- off for the convenience of Eve's skill system is that you effectively have a machine with a stopwatch standing over your shoulder at all times. Yikes! ... or it can be that way if you let it get under your skin I guess. That said though, the only thing a skill queue would do in that regard is delay the inevitable. So I suppose it's just one of those gaming conundra we all run into sooner or later. ___________________________________________
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:05:00 - [86] Perhaps a restriction would be implemented. You can only queue a skill once every month. So if you have a vacation coming up or you'll be out a couple days, just use your chance for this month and you'll have it for the next. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:06:00 - [87] Originally by: Malcanis By that argument, someone could kick you in the nuts and you'd merely be grateful that you weren't dying in some horrible little African bush war. Yes, those two situation are directly comparable. I have not read one single argument for a skill queue that did not inherently relate to "I'm too lazy/busy/distracted to login to the game to play the game, therefore, it should do it for me." I agree that a skill queue would be nice, but trying to build a righteous argument for it is laughable.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:14:00 - [88] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis By that argument, someone could kick you in the nuts and you'd merely be grateful that you weren't dying in some horrible little African bush war. Yes, those two situation are directly comparable. I have not read one single argument for a skill queue that did not inherently relate to "I'm too lazy/busy/distracted to login to the game to play the game, therefore, it should do it for me." I agree that a skill queue would be nice, but trying to build a righteous argument for it is laughable. Really? You must have skipped most of this thread then. You must also be immune to the following: power outages internet outages sleep work unexpected or extended downtimes vacation illness inability to play for 5-6 hours at a time whenever you need to (since those are the most annoying to try and train) What's disgusting is the game prides itself and sells itself on the ability to "level" while you're not even playing, yet, if a skill finishes, you have to manually start the next one. It's the most obvious feature in the world for a game with afk leveling to have, yet EVE lacks it. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:17:00 - [89] Don't patronize me, Malconis, especially if you do not hold the intelligence to schedule your activities with regard to a computer game.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:18:00 - [90] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis By that argument, someone could kick you in the nuts and you'd merely be grateful that you weren't dying in some horrible little African bush war. Yes, those two situation are directly comparable. I have not read one single argument for a skill queue that did not inherently relate to "I'm too lazy/busy/distracted to login to the game to play the game, therefore, it should do it for me." I agree that a skill queue would be nice, but trying to build a righteous argument for it is laughable. Really? You must have skipped most of this thread then. You must also be immune to the following: power outages internet outages sleep work unexpected or extended downtimes vacation illness inability to play for 5-6 hours at a time whenever you need to (since those are the most annoying to try and train) What's disgusting is the game prides itself and sells itself on the ability to "level" while you're not even playing, yet, if a skill finishes, you have to manually start the next one. It's the most obvious feature in the world for a game with afk leveling to have, yet EVE lacks it. Wow, just wow. I can't believe I've seen more ignorant people than here, and I used to play maple story (for a short while, don't shoot me).
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:23:00 - [91] Originally by: Malcanis Sheesh all I want is for a skill to keep training until it completes level 5. Can you honestly claim that this would make the game worse for anyone? Will you deny that it would make the game nicer for many? Thank you for proving my point. You want a skill queue because it will make the game "nicer". Not because the system is broken, or because allowing a queue would let players develop better, or because of some other non self-serving reason. No, it's because you're too lazy to log in to the game. Originally by: Malcanis What's the big deal about it for you that you have such a problem with it? Did a skill-queue proponent kill your dog or something? I have a problem with it because you're proposing a system that would reward players who do not put in any effort. The current system rewards a player for taking the time to log in and change a skill. Yes it is tedious, but if people are willing to put in that effort, why shouldn't they have an edge/advantage/bonus over those players who will not? Do other games give you experience because you couldn't log in and grind monsters, but someone else could? If I take the time to invent a t2 bpc, you should get one as well, correct? How about real life? Do you get paid because someone else went to work instead of you?
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:25:00 - [92] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis Sheesh all I want is for a skill to keep training until it completes level 5. Can you honestly claim that this would make the game worse for anyone? Will you deny that it would make the game nicer for many? Thank you for proving my point. You want a skill queue because it will make the game "nicer". Not because the system is broken, or because allowing a queue would let players develop better, or because of some other non self-serving reason. No, it's because you're too lazy to log in to the game. Originally by: Malcanis What's the big deal about it for you that you have such a problem with it? Did a skill-queue proponent kill your dog or something? I have a problem with it because you're proposing a system that would reward players who do not put in any effort. The current system rewards a player for taking the time to log in and change a skill. Yes it is tedious, but if people are willing to put in that effort, why shouldn't they have an edge/advantage/bonus over those players who will not? Do other games give you experience because you couldn't log in and grind monsters, but someone else could? If I take the time to invent a t2 bpc, you should get one as well, correct? How about real life? Do you get paid because someone else went to work instead of you? Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:27:00 - [93] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to C4 blast into this thread. People want a skill queue because they are lazy. Pure and simple. On that premise I say no. Log in. Play the game.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:28:00 - [94] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Don't patronize me, Malconis, especially if you do not hold the intelligence to schedule your activities with regard to a computer game. Just this once I wasn't intending to be patronising (except maybe the thing about the dog). It was an honest question: why do you care if skills can train from level 1-5? I'm not insisting that you spend any effort supporting the proposal, I'm just curious as to why you'd spend any effort opposing it. Would it in any way make the game worse for you personally? Look, I've been playing for nearly 2 years, I've accumulated over 30M SP. Most of my skills take days or weeks. But what the hey, I'm going to respec to Amarr after I've trained T2 large blasters, and I have Small Energy Weapons I, Amarr Frigate 1 and no armour comp skills. There are a lot of short skills in my future and really all I want is for them to be trained up without wasting too much time because I have a life. It's not that I'm too stupid to schedule skills, it's just that it's sometimes not practical. There's no amount of intelligence that will let me spend 9 hours at work and still be able to change a skill after 6 hours. And I say that with the perspective of being able to fly a lot of ships pretty well already - for newer player, every SP is precious. I can, if it comes to it, go "oh well..." if I lose a few hours or a day or two - the loss is far more severe for the new guys. We hear a lot about evE's more mature playerbase - let's cater to the fact we have families and jobs eh? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:31:00 - [95] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to C4 blast into this thread. People want a skill queue because they are lazy. Pure and simple. On that premise I say no. Log in. Play the game. I admit it: I'm just too idle to put a request in to IT to get the EvE client installed on my work PC. I'll get on it tomorrow and never mention this topic again. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:33:00 - [96] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to C4 blast into this thread. People want a skill queue because they are lazy. Pure and simple. On that premise I say no. Log in. Play the game. translation You lazy kids and your school buses! Back in my day I had to walk to school! Five miles, both ways and barefoot in the snow! So I guess all convenience is considered as laziness. What a shame. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:34:00 - [97] Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here.
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:35:00 - [98] Edited by: Nicho Void on 03/07/2008 17:35:29 Originally by: Malcanis I admit it: I'm just too idle to put a request in to IT to get the EvE client installed on my work PC. I'll get on it tomorrow and never mention this topic again. Oh FFS. Really? You're going to spill tears of bitter angst all other this thread because you have to be a big boy and go to work whilst other people get to stay home and play internet spaceships? Give me a break. Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to C4 blast into this thread. People want a skill queue because they are lazy. Pure and simple. On that premise I say no. Log in. Play the game. translation You lazy kids and your school buses! Back in my day I had to walk to school! Five miles, both ways and barefoot in the snow! So I guess all convenience is considered as laziness. What a shame. translation Log in. Play the game. I'm missing where this is a hard concept.
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:36:00 - [99] Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 03/07/2008 17:37:34 Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. It'll be funny when they do implement a skill queue, which from what I heard from the CSM, CCP IS working on one, that all the naysayers or people touting laziness will use it. Sure it's an assumption, but you can bet that it'll be true. Unlimited skill-queuing is quite silly and no sane person would request it. On the other hand, setting one skill as the next in line is completely logical. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:44:00 - [100] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 03/07/2008 17:37:34 Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. It'll be funny when they do implement a skill queue, which from what I heard from the CSM, CCP IS working on one, that all the naysayers or people touting laziness will use it. Sure it's an assumption, but you can bet that it'll be true. Unlimited skill-queuing is quite silly and no sane person would request it. On the other hand, setting one skill as the next in line is completely logical. I don't have any principled opposition to the idea that a player should set a "secondary" skill that kicks-in when the "primary" skill completes. I have a serious opposition to whining, and I might go ballistic when I see the first "my secondary skill expired before I came back" lamentation thread.
Slanty McGarglefist University of Caille	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:46:00 - [101] Originally by: Esu Nahalas I have a serious opposition to whining, and I might go ballistic when I see the first "my secondary skill expired before I came back" lamentation thread. You and me both good sir . It's safe to say that would be quite inevitable, but they will be quickly ridiculed. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:46:00 - [102] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Anyway go ahead and enjoy the sense of moral superiority that you're clearly revelling in. I'm sure when you tell your friends that you're "hardcore" and log in at 3AM unlike "that noob marconis" that they're all very impressed. In fact I bet they talk about you all the time. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:47:00 - [103] CCP agreed to look at this while we talked with them in Iceland. The CSM flagged it a high priority issue and the most likely outcome is going to be that we get to nominate a PRIMARY (skill in training) and SECONDARY (skill that the primary will switch too when it completes.) CCP are looking at the programming implications and this should happen. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:48:00 - [104] Edited by: Alz Shado on 03/07/2008 17:48:32 CCP should just break more stuff so that the people who complain to improve the game can instead complain about not making it any worse. Hint: it can always get worse. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 17:59:00 - [105] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Anyway go ahead and enjoy the sense of moral superiority that you're clearly revelling in. I'm sure when you tell your friends that you're "hardcore" and log in at 3AM unlike "that noob marconis" that they're all very impressed. In fact I bet they talk about you all the time. My name is Xaen, and I approve this message. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 18:02:00 - [106] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Oh? So if I start BS 1, or Carrier 1, or Cap Ship 1, or a dozen other high level skills...you think allowing them to train to level 5 without input is "fundamentally very limited"?
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 18:11:00 - [107] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Anyway go ahead and enjoy the sense of moral superiority that you're clearly revelling in. I'm sure when you tell your friends that you're "hardcore" and log in at 3AM unlike "that noob marconis" that they're all very impressed. In fact I bet they talk about you all the time. Funny, how should I interpret your comment that, "Sheesh all I want is for a skill to keep training until it completes level 5." I suspect that your aversion to people you think are claiming "moral superiority" is really an aversion to people that are more intelligent than yourself.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.03 18:13:00 - [108] Originally by: Jade Constantine CCP agreed to look at this while we talked with them in Iceland. The CSM flagged it a high priority issue and the most likely outcome is going to be that we get to nominate a PRIMARY (skill in training) and SECONDARY (skill that the primary will switch too when it completes.) CCP are looking at the programming implications and this should happen. /thread __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 18:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Nicho Void Yes, those two situation are directly comparable. I have not read one single argument for a skill queue that did not inherently relate to "I'm too lazy/busy/distracted to login to the game to play the game, therefore, it should do it for me." I agree that a skill queue would be nice, but trying to build a righteous argument for it is laughable. "The fact that you would rather not bring the full weight of your work ethic to bear on the most basic, mechanical and tedious busywork associated with --> A Video Game <-- clearly marks you as a lazy and ineffectual person." Certainly nothing laughable about the "righteous" arguments against is there? ___________________________________________
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:00:00 - [110] Originally by: Quelque Chose "The fact that you would rather not bring the full weight of your work ethic to bear on the most basic, mechanical and tedious busywork associated with --> A Video Game <-- but will whine about the time missed, clearly marks you as a lazy and ineffectual person." Fixed that for you.
masternerdguy	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:12:00 - [111] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Well of course, it's all a matter of convenience that's all. While i don't have a problem keeping track of my skills and logging in to change them, I would most certainly welcome a skill queue. It's one less thing to worry about. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to C4 blast into this thread. People want a skill queue because they are lazy. Pure and simple. On that premise I say no. Log in. Play the game. translation You lazy kids and your school buses! Back in my day I had to walk to school! Five miles, both ways and barefoot in the snow! So I guess all convenience is considered as laziness. What a shame. dude.............were you a black kid in the 1930s in georgia?
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Damon Ra It only needs to be limited to the skill currently being trained and 1 backup skill and no more. /signed The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:22:00 - [113] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Oh? So if I start BS 1, or Carrier 1, or Cap Ship 1, or a dozen other high level skills...you think allowing them to train to level 5 without input is "fundamentally very limited"? You think that a theoretical maximum of a huge whopping eve-destroying 25% increase of the longest time it's possible for someone to spend without logging in is "unlimited"? Adding a secondary, tertiary... nth skill to a training queue is at least theoretically vulnerable to the slippery slope you're worried about. Letting a single skill train to completion isn't. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Damon Ra It only needs to be limited to the skill currently being trained and 1 backup skill and no more. /signed That would be a big step in the right direction. I'd be happier with one that could only hold 12 hours of short skills and one skill of unrestricted length. See the problem isn't training short skills. The problem isn't training long skills. The problem are the 4-8 hour skills. Most people don't play that long, but it's too short to sleep through or work through. To be able to knock out 2 or 3 of these giant PITAs would be a major boon. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:29:00 - [115] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Esu Nahalas Actually, Marconis, I don't care one way or the other whether skills train from I to V in the absence of input. What I do care about (again, purely in an economic sense) is making sure there is a benefit that accrues to those who "micro-manage" (and pay for) their accounts. If we put in a system of unlimited skill-queuing, then people will simply follow the recipe that inevitably will be posted here. But I'm not asking for "unlimited" skill queueing am I, you semi-literate simian. Training until level 5 complete is fundamentally very limited. I'm sure that even you can see that. Oh? So if I start BS 1, or Carrier 1, or Cap Ship 1, or a dozen other high level skills...you think allowing them to train to level 5 without input is "fundamentally very limited"? You think that a theoretical maximum of a huge whopping eve-destroying 25% increase of the longest time it's possible for someone to spend without logging in is "unlimited"? Adding a secondary, tertiary... nth skill to a training queue is at least theoretically vulnerable to the slippery slope you're worried about. Letting a single skill train to completion isn't. What slippery slope are you worried about? There's absolutely no harm to the EVE community as a whole if one stupid newbie AFK trains for a capital ship, then loses it in a comedy mail because he didn't learn to fly it while he was AFK training. Honestly, what does being forced to log into the game exclusively to switch skills add to the game? The only answers I can come up with are: irritation, additional burden, annoyance, and pain in the ass And I can envision no scenario where training without actually logging in hurts anyone but the person doing it. So what if character sellers do it? They're already doing it. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. There are far more legitimate players than character farmers, but they're suffering more than the farmers. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:31:00 - [116] Quote: See the problem isn't training short skills. The problem isn't training long skills. The problem are the 4-8 hour skills. Most people don't play that long, but it's too short to sleep through or work through. To be able to knock out 2 or 3 of these giant PITAs would be a major boon. /Signed.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:32:00 - [117] Originally by: Xaen What slippery slope are you worried about? There's absolutely no harm to the EVE community as a whole if one stupid newbie AFK trains for a capital ship, then loses it in a comedy mail because he didn't learn to fly it while he was AFK training. Honestly, what does being forced to log into the game exclusively to switch skills add to the game? The only answers I can come up with are: irritation, additional burden, annoyance, and pain in the ass And I can envision no scenario where training without actually logging in hurts anyone but the person doing it. So what if character sellers do it? They're already doing it. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. There are far more legitimate players than character farmers, but they're suffering more than the farmers. I know this. You know this. But it seems that some people find some kind of moral virtue in artificially imposed inconvenience. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:41:00 - [118] Again, from an economic sense (not some BS "moral" sense that some idiots want to use as a strawman), it brings people into the game. And that's it, after all . . . I'm suprised you don't get it . . . CCP is in the business of selling subscriptions, not catering to the players who have advanced to a level where they have they luxury of whining about "inconvenience."
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.07.03 19:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Nicho Void My head is so chock full of moldy offal and bad wind that well, gosh darn it, I'm downright impressed with myself. Nifty, huh? If you can find one example of me whining about missing training time I'll send you 100m ISK. ___________________________________________
Sinnae Takeda	Posted - 2008.07.03 20:21:00 - [120] Originally by: Artemis Rose Originally by: Saracena Originally by: Akita T As long as the queue is disabled when account expires, there's no PERTINENT reason to NOT have one, even of any length. One of a verry shallow length (like, say, even just ONE skill), and having it disabled when account expires, well, that's just rude to not have it. Exactly. Can anyone put up a decent argument to dispute this? I sure the hell can't. It is rude not to have it. Because if it was meant to be in the game, CCP would have patched it in at some point in the last 5 years. This is not an old issue, this will keep coming up, and they have decided for reasons unknown, they don't want one in their game.Rude or not, its their game and we still play it. I'd rather leave RP and SP gains on inactive accounts instead of getting a skill queue of any kind. The thought of Carrier V or any other long skill being trained, and a few extra ISK being gained in research is quite motivating reason to return to the spacelanes. Its not a bad thing when experienced players return to play Eve. oh gosh, no! not the "it must stay the way it is, because that's the way it is" argument. i just can't bear the logical beauty of it!
Sinnae Takeda	Posted - 2008.07.03 20:32:00 - [121] Edited by: Sinnae Takeda on 03/07/2008 20:32:37 Edited by: Sinnae Takeda on 03/07/2008 20:32:20 Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Malcanis Sheesh all I want is for a skill to keep training until it completes level 5. Can you honestly claim that this would make the game worse for anyone? Will you deny that it would make the game nicer for many? Thank you for proving my point. You want a skill queue because it will make the game "nicer". Not because the system is broken, or because allowing a queue would let players develop better, or because of some other non self-serving reason. No, it's because you're too lazy to log in to the game. why does the reason i want something from ccp have to be "non self-serving"? we pay for eve, remember? you in a restaurant: "can i have a clean spoon, please?" "how self-serving of you, sir!"
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2008.07.04 05:13:00 - [122] Originally by: Esu Nahalas Again, from an economic sense (not some BS "moral" sense that some idiots want to use as a strawman), it brings people into the game. And that's it, after all . . . I'm suprised you don't get it . . . CCP is in the business of selling subscriptions, not catering to the players who have advanced to a level where they have they luxury of whining about "inconvenience." So, is this an argument FOR or AGAINST the skill queue? My guess would be "for", as you don't need to actively play to pay. Also, I'm sure Eve has lost quite a few potential customers who didn't like the idea of having to mold their private lives around a game.
Element 22 Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.04 05:22:00 - [123] Might I add a heartfelt: "You lucky bastard!" to everybody who can play at the moment, my playing computer is STILL broken because the new motherboard I ordered was DOA and I'm about to go off on a trip for 1.5 weeks, so that's let's see now...almost 3 weeks of training lost. Don't complain. (So in case you couldn't tell, I support this queue) Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.04 06:36:00 - [124] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 04/07/2008 06:37:04 Originally by: Andrue I disagree with those saying it hits new players hardest. New players have a plethora of skills to train and can always find a suitable one to tide them over until the next log-in opportunity. My brand new alt has about 26 skills to train that are in the order of 15 minutes to 2 hours. Which of those skills should I set to train just before I go to bed, in order to minimise time wasted sleeping? Or should I get up in the middle of the night to switch over to another 2 hour skill (or the new 8 hour skill that just became available)? My situation is this: I get home at 7pm my time, server is always down from 9-10pm for maintenance. Sometimes the server is down longer. So from 7-9, I focus on training a skill to the 1-2hour level, then leave that skill until just before shutdown. Then when the skill is done training I can switch to train the 8-hour skill that follows (the level 4 of a rank 1/2 skill for example) then go to bed. What happens if something goes wrong and the server is down for longer than expected? For example, a new patch (such as Empyrean Age) is released? Or the Internet between Australia and UK is broken? A skill training queue would be of greatest benefit to new players. Missing 1 hour of training after a 45min skill was supposed to have finished hurts a lot more than missing 14 hours of training after a 28 day skill was supposed to have finished. Turning off skill point acquisition for inactive accounts would be of greatest benefit to continually subscribed veterans. edit: fixed quote
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.04 06:58:00 - [125] Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 04/07/2008 06:37:04 Originally by: Andrue I disagree with those saying it hits new players hardest. New players have a plethora of skills to train and can always find a suitable one to tide them over until the next log-in opportunity. My brand new alt has about 26 skills to train that are in the order of 15 minutes to 2 hours. Exactly, you're doing it wrong. 26 potentital 2 hour skills is poor planning. What you should have is something more like: Half a dozen two hours or less (typically up to L2). Two or three a dozen to two dozen hours (typically to L3). The rest will be several days long (L4 or L5). You should concentrate on getting skills to L3..and do so one skill at a time. Don't chop and change between them. Decide on a skill to take to L3 at the beginning of your play session and stick with it. As long as you can log on for five minutes in the morning and evening that will be enough to keep things going. Remember that you don't have to wait until a skill has finished training in order to switch to another one. I used to pick an important skill (one of the Spaceship or Gunnery ones) and make it my long term goal to get to L5. Once you have a skill at L4 you can use that to tide you over longer breaks. Most often I would train to L3 in the evening then switch to my long term skill until the next evening (the way my systems are set up prevents me logging in in the mornings during the week). -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.04 07:36:00 - [126] Originally by: Apoctasy Anyone could set up a ton of skills to train and then sell that account later Ebays use training bots currently. Wont effect them at all. Dual training or even a 1 skill deep queue would be handy. I think thats all that is being asked for. -- Billion Isk Mission
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.04 08:22:00 - [127] Originally by: Lord WarATron Ebays use training bots currently. Wont effect them at all. Dual training or even a 1 skill deep queue would be handy. I think thats all that is being asked for. All I'd like is one skill to queue... say some prohibitively long skill (in my case BS 5 would be it) I know other people wouldn't always have it set to a long skill, but I've got caldari cruiser 5 from the three weeks I spent training last year, due to no other long skills at the time (US Army.. wheee) ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.04 08:30:00 - [128] Edited by: Andrue on 04/07/2008 08:33:09 Edited by: Andrue on 04/07/2008 08:32:20 It'd be nice to have a follow-on skill but tbh I feel there is a genuine 'player skill' to be learnt and used here. I'm don't really want to insult anyone but I genuinely feel that if you can't organise yourself and keep losing several hours training then it's your fault. Alternatively - I should be rewarded for the fact that I can organise myself. Not to say that I haven't lost some time over the years (I lost an entire day once because of an old bug where changing a skill in space didn't register) but over 4.5 years I reckon I've lost no more than a couple of days in total and I always felt like it was my fault when lost time. I didn't come on to the forums to complain about it - just accepted it as poor planning or absent mindedness on my part. It is difficult to organise skill training but it isn't impossible..at least not for most players. If you only have half an hour in which to use a computer and you can't control when it is (ie;a single parent with demanding kids) then it will be an issue. OTOH if that's the position you're in I'd suggest the Eve isn't the game for you and perhaps you shouldn't be wasting precious time even trying. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
LordSwift New Eden Regimental Navy	Posted - 2008.07.04 09:40:00 - [129] Originally by: Jade Constantine CCP agreed to look at this while we talked with them in Iceland. The CSM flagged it a high priority issue and the most likely outcome is going to be that we get to nominate a PRIMARY (skill in training) and SECONDARY (skill that the primary will switch too when it completes.) CCP are looking at the programming implications and this should happen. Well this is depressing. It looks like the lazy people are going to get there wish and have a small skill queue. I am going to be home at 7.30pm tonight and my BS lvl5 skill finished at 4.30. Oh well going to lose a few hours. But i am not bothered. Only a Game. I do agree it will be handy but then again it allows people to be slightly lazy. Damn CSM better not let every moaning person get there own way. The game will get terrible.
Daftex Muleson Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.04 09:56:00 - [130] Burma!
Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:07:00 - [131] Originally by: LordSwift Well this is depressing. It looks like the lazy people are going to get there wish and have a small skill queue. I am going to be home at 7.30pm tonight and my BS lvl5 skill finished at 4.30. Oh well going to lose a few hours. But i am not bothered. Only a Game. I do agree it will be handy but then again it allows people to be slightly lazy. Damn CSM better not let every moaning person get there own way. The game will get terrible. i guess you play without autopilot, and have all your modules autorepeat turned off
LordSwift New Eden Regimental Navy	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:45:00 - [132] Edited by: LordSwift on 04/07/2008 11:52:27 Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: LordSwift Well this is depressing. It looks like the lazy people are going to get there wish and have a small skill queue. I am going to be home at 7.30pm tonight and my BS lvl5 skill finished at 4.30. Oh well going to lose a few hours. But i am not bothered. Only a Game. I do agree it will be handy but then again it allows people to be slightly lazy. Damn CSM better not let every moaning person get there own way. The game will get terrible. i guess you play without autopilot, and have all your modules autorepeat turned off sometimes what does that have anything to do with what i said previous?
AltBier Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:49:00 - [133] Edited by: AltBier on 04/07/2008 11:52:59 Originally by: Jade Constantine CCP agreed to look at this while we talked with them in Iceland. The CSM flagged it a high priority issue and the most likely outcome is going to be that we get to nominate a PRIMARY (skill in training) and SECONDARY (skill that the primary will switch too when it completes.) CCP are looking at the programming implications and this should happen. That's great news, thank you! Originally by: Xaen See the problem isn't training short skills. The problem isn't training long skills. The problem are the 4-8 hour skills. Most people don't play that long, but it's too short to sleep through or work through. To be able to knock out 2 or 3 of these giant PITAs would be a major boon. Exactly, 100% agreed, that is the only reason I want a skill queue. I could live with the proposed solution, though, because I could set the 4-8 hour skill as the primary and a longer (or another 4-8 hour) skill as the secondary.
Doc Extropy Gallente Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:55:00 - [134] Edited by: Doc Extropy on 04/07/2008 11:57:34 Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. If you are at home, yes. Imagine the following situation: a) You have 2 skills with, say, 5 hours left, each b) You leave home @ 0800 to get to work and come back at about, say, 1730 c) At the moment you have to train a level 5 skill which takes AT LEAST 5 days with no gain d) With a skill queue of 1 ***** skill you could get, for example, 2 level 3 skills when you're back from work e) This means you get something USEFUL from your training time earlier, instead of having a real life nerfing your ingame performance Once again, it is NOT about the time it takes to change a skill (and: it is MORE than 5 seconds, this PC here takes about 2 minutes when coming back from standby to beeing able to change a skill - and some people, not nerds - I know!, have active social lifes, including "zomg I have to get out of the house quickly to meet my friends timely). It is about having more useful skill training and less half finished skills (wasting skillpoints in the process). Why is this SO *** hard to understand to some? And, NO... sane / normal people usually don't have more time than 2 hours per day to play a computer game. So training 10 hours would take 5 days. 5 days without, say, Explosive Armor compensation III and Kinetic Armor compensation III. When it comes to a sane way of living a healthy life, computer games come last. Work, rl socializing and stuff always come first. --- Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT!**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.04 12:34:00 - [135] Edited by: Andrue on 04/07/2008 12:39:45 Originally by: Doc Extropy Edited by: Doc Extropy on 04/07/2008 11:57:34 Originally by: fuze Just takes 5 sec to change skill on a char. If you are at home, yes. Imagine the following situation: a) You have 2 skills with, say, 5 hours left, each That's either unrealistic or extremely bad planning. Very few characters ever have only two skills they can train. If you've managed to paint yourself into that corner you have only yourself to blame. Quote: b) You leave home @ 0800 to get to work and come back at about, say, 1730 c) At the moment you have to train a level 5 skill which takes AT LEAST 5 days with no gain Of course there's a gain but what does that have to do with the price of cheese? Either the gain justifies training to L5 or it doesn't. Either way it's irrelevant to this discussion. Putting your (a) and (c) together immediately solves the problem. When you log on switch to the short skill, before you log off switch to the long skill. What's so hard to understand about that? I can only assume that some of you don't realise that you can switch from skill to skill whenever you feel like it without losing any SP. There's no need to train a skill level in one go. If the completion time is inconvenient just train another skill for a while instead. I bet every character in the game has at least half a dozen skills they can choose from at any one time. Most probably have dozens. Back in the day I'd deliberately keep a 'stock' of part learned skills. Things I didn't need immediately but that I would one day. Basically whenever I wanted a skill I'd look for other skills that seemed interesting and that I could train immediately. I'd train them for a second then switch to something more important. If I needed to adjust a completion time for my primary skill back by a few hours I'd train some of the stock skills I'd bought. It's all about time management and forward planning, folks. It's a very useful skill to learn in real-life as well. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.04 13:06:00 - [136] Edited by: Esu Nahalas on 04/07/2008 13:09:01 Originally by: Andrue I can only assume that some of you don't realise that you can switch from skill to skill whenever you feel like it without losing any SP. There's no need to train a skill level in one go. If the completion time is inconvenient just train another skill for a while instead. I bet every character in the game has at least half a dozen skills they can choose from at any one time. Most probably have dozens. I just don't see this as very likely, if these people are reading the forums. So I'm going to make some other assumptions: Assuming that these people have grasped the concepts of having primary (short term) and secondary (long term) skills already, then they may feel that they are "losing" the time that elapses while the secondary skill trains. I think it falls into the "I want my primary skill NOW!" category. Assuming* that these people have not grasped the concepts of primary and secondary (and I have the feeling that some haven't), then it falls into the category of "I want my primary skill NOW, and I can't manage my time." I don't see a problem with CCP automating the primary and secondary functions, but given the two assumptions above, I honestly don't think it will make whit of difference. (Because) these people will still complain. _____ *this assumption goes to yours
AltBier Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2008.07.04 16:35:00 - [137] Edited by: AltBier on 04/07/2008 16:40:57 Originally by: Esu Nahalas Assuming that these people have grasped the concepts of having primary (short term) and secondary (long term) skills already, then they may feel that they are "losing" the time that elapses while the secondary skill trains. I think it falls into the "I want my primary skill NOW!" category. That is certainly how I see things, as described above. If I have a skill which has 5 hours remaining but I need to go to work, then I can make a choice to not complete that skill while I train something longer, or I can train it and accept the loss of potential skill training time after it has completed. However I'd like to finish training it without the loss of another 5 hours worth of skill training time. That is neither unreasonable nor lazy.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.04 17:47:00 - [138] I think the 2 skill que is wonderfull! why? Cause it makes me wanna log in after work cause a that new skill is done/advanced and i want to check out its impact ony my char even use some new modules etc etc. So i log in and i will stay to play. Where as its not realy important if the skills to lvl V need 7 days or 12 as long as im entertained with small advance overnight/work _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Zinras Caldari Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.07.04 18:26:00 - [139] Edited by: Zinras on 04/07/2008 22:22:59 Edited by: Zinras on 04/07/2008 18:27:12 Edited by: Zinras on 04/07/2008 18:26:02 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Zinras Switching skills just as a skill is trained is EVE's version of power levelling, rewarding those that are actually in the game a lot (I'm not one of them, btw). If CCP added a queue they'd be powerlevelling for you. BAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW, I CAN'T TELL TIME AND AM UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING IN ADVANCE Fix'd. Also, partial quote ftl. Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal CCP's best friend
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.05 07:29:00 - [140] Andrue and others have established possible workarounds to scheduling issues, however I don't believe they've pointed any real downsides to a skill queue system. As others have pointed out, character farmers already have macros so it won't help them. While I might have several 23 day skills that I can train, maybe I want those 5 hour skills first but as pointed out have work/etc. A skill queue allows me to get these skills earlier. This basically provides a boost to the casual gamer compared to the person who is on 24/7 and able to train sequences of 4 hour skills (there are lots of these when you start off, and to some extent when you are older).
Clytamnestra Spartan Fleet Systems	Posted - 2008.07.05 07:48:00 - [141] Not being able to queue skills make me thing about eve constantly. I log on before I go to work, to fiddle with my skill-training. I sit around and think about eve at work. If I have to work late and miss switching skills optimally, it tears me up. Before I go to bed, I make sure my skill-training is setup okay over night. Yes, this is a testament to poor character, but quite honestly, not being able to queue skills makes this game that much more exciting for me, because I constantly have to interact with it, and it impacts real life like no other game does for me. Don't screw up my game, please. -- Clytamnestra
Solid Trust Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.05 17:20:00 - [142] Originally by: Clytamnestra Not being able to queue skills make me thing about eve constantly. I log on before I go to work, to fiddle with my skill-training. I sit around and think about eve at work. If I have to work late and miss switching skills optimally, it tears me up. Before I go to bed, I make sure my skill-training is setup okay over night. Yes, this is a testament to poor character, but quite honestly, not being able to queue skills makes this game that much more exciting for me, because I constantly have to interact with it, and it impacts real life like no other game does for me. Don't screw up my game, please. Don't queue skills then. That way you get to keep your excitement, but don't force what you enjoy on other people. Not having at least a simple skill queue has annoyed me from when I first started playing and still does years later. Allow skill queue, but don't let it work for accounts that are inactive (not paying monthly cost).
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.05 17:35:00 - [143] Originally by: Clytamnestra Not being able to queue skills make me thing about eve constantly. I log on before I go to work, to fiddle with my skill-training. I sit around and think about eve at work. If I have to work late and miss switching skills optimally, it tears me up. Before I go to bed, I make sure my skill-training is setup okay over night. Yes, this is a testament to poor character, but quite honestly, not being able to queue skills makes this game that much more exciting for me, because I constantly have to interact with it, and it impacts real life like no other game does for me. Don't screw up my game, please. Don't use the queue. No one will make you. Problem solved. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
kryptteacher	Posted - 2008.07.05 17:41:00 - [144] id be cool w/ a skill queue. but if you cancel your sub it should not continue to the next skill in the queue
mokmo3 Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.05 21:09:00 - [145] I once lost a whole day of training because of a net outage right before d/t (and i take the bus right in the middlee of it). The outage was sporadic for a week until the router finally gave up and was replaced. I was able to change my skill to a long one the next morning and i probably wouldn't have been able to do any other time of the week. As i'm finishing Minmatar Battleship V next week, i dread the return to shorter skills. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Tzujeih GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.05 21:14:00 - [146] I wouldn't consider logging in to train a skill playing the game.
Michayel Lyon Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.05 22:54:00 - [147] Originally by: Solid Trust Don't queue skills then. That way you get to keep your excitement, but don't force what you enjoy on other people. Not having at least a simple skill queue has annoyed me from when I first started playing and still does years later. Allow skill queue, but don't let it work for accounts that are inactive (not paying monthly cost). I want to be able to max my character instantly, so that I can use all ships and modules in the game. Before you complain about ruining your game, I suggest that CCP keeps the ability to train skills "the old way". That way, other people can continue to play the game the way it has been played for the last 5 years, without me being forced into a gaming style that I don't like. Yes, there's nothing flawed about this kind of reasoning. Honestly. --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions GM Xamother: "Beeing online is not considered harassment or exploit."
DoctorWu	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:05:00 - [148] how about this... Allow people to que training skills but increase the training time...ALSO introduce an EXP point system to allow people to earn skill points by actually playing the game (ie - completing missions, mining, killing pirates (include some SP in with the ISK bounty. I think it would be fairly simple to balance the two methods of earning skills and it encourages and rewards the people who actually play the game more, at the same time it doesn't completely screw people like me who have to work 12 hours a day and have a family I need to spend time with once in a while.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:27:00 - [149] Originally by: DoctorWu how about this... Allow people to que training skills but increase the training time...ALSO introduce an EXP point system to allow people to earn skill points by actually playing the game (ie - completing missions, mining, killing pirates (include some SP in with the ISK bounty. I think it would be fairly simple to balance the two methods of earning skills and it encourages and rewards the people who actually play the game more, at the same time it doesn't completely screw people like me who have to work 12 hours a day and have a family I need to spend time with once in a while. Look its a troll necro.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:43:00 - [150] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 22/07/2008 14:43:18 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i like the idea of the current skill, set it training and unless you cut in at some point it will keep going all the way to lvl 5. Add in a skill training cut off when the account is inactive and this is a great option. This is someone that has lost close to 2 months of training in my first 10 months and one who does not think a skill que is necessary This sounds like the best "I got hit by a bus proofing" system possible while cutting out the potential for abuse by stopping payments on accounts while still training some Rank 8 skill to 5 or something. Slade "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self"
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.22 14:43:00 - [151] Originally by: Andrue It'd be nice to have a follow-on skill but tbh I feel there is a genuine 'player skill' to be learnt and used here. I'm don't really want to insult anyone but I genuinely feel that if you can't organise yourself and keep losing several hours training then it's your fault. Welp, you're wrong. Power outages, unexpected downtime, unexpected internet outages, and computer problems alone are sufficient justification for a skill queue. What are you, just turning 20? I only say this because, if you've only lost a couple of days in the past 4.5 years you must live a life where you have very few long term obligations that keep you away from your computer for more than a few hours at a time. That is, high school or college. Sure, I could plan things such that I always have some long skill training, but then I end up spending weeks training things I don't really want. It's really absurd that people are even arguing this. If you don't like it, don't use it. Some of us have full time jobs and our lives do not revolve around EVE. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
DoctorWu	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:27:00 - [152] Originally by: Khrillian Look its a troll necro. What the heck is a troll necro?
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:04:00 - [153] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Andrue It'd be nice to have a follow-on skill but tbh I feel there is a genuine 'player skill' to be learnt and used here. I'm don't really want to insult anyone but I genuinely feel that if you can't organise yourself and keep losing several hours training then it's your fault. Welp, you're wrong. Power outages, unexpected downtime, unexpected internet outages, and computer problems alone are sufficient justification for a skill queue. What are you, just turning 20? I only say this because, if you've only lost a couple of days in the past 4.5 years you must live a life where you have very few long term obligations that keep you away from your computer for more than a few hours at a time. That is, high school or college. Sure, I could plan things such that I always have some long skill training, but then I end up spending weeks training things I don't really want. It's really absurd that people are even arguing this. If you don't like it, don't use it. Some of us have full time jobs and our lives do not revolve around EVE. EVERYONE can be affected by these. That's life and Eve for you. Unfair.
J Kunjeh Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:19:00 - [154] Personally, I'm not in favor of a skill queue. Yeah, it would be more convenient and would allow you to maximize every hour of the day, but I think it's better that players have to put more effort into it. It rewards those who log into Eve often, and that's not a bad reward.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:33:00 - [155] I've said it before, but since this is another skill queue thread, I'll say it again. I would like a 24-hour max queue. It would let players get some of the shortish skills out of the way and would not be exploitable. They'd still have to log in once a day unless they set long skills.
Mina Morticia	Posted - 2008.08.06 11:42:00 - [156] agree
Hazzard	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:45:00 - [157] /agree with the OP. I would like one of the following: 1. Skill queues. 2. Website where I can set my skill training. CCP we are not always at home ready to do our skill training. I have a ton of 6 hour skills that are hard to get done when I need to goto work etc...
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.06 12:55:00 - [158] Edited by: Andrue on 06/08/2008 12:55:41 Hmmm. Must've missed this reply first time round. Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Andrue It'd be nice to have a follow-on skill but tbh I feel there is a genuine 'player skill' to be learnt and used here. I'm don't really want to insult anyone but I genuinely feel that if you can't organise yourself and keep losing several hours training then it's your fault. Welp, you're wrong. Power outages, unexpected downtime, unexpected internet outages, and computer problems alone are sufficient justification for a skill queue. What are you, just turning 20? No I'm 41. Luckily I've long ago learnt how to manage my time. I only get to play in the evenings and generally only for a couple of hours. Yet in over 4.5 years I've only lost SP on a couple of occasions and it was my forgefulness. I think I once lost a few SP because of an extended DT but it was one of those "extended by a couple of hours" and I knew I was gambling that it would be back up by the time I got home from work. Quote: Sure, I could plan things such that I always have some long skill training, but then I end up spending weeks training things I don't really want. Clearly you need to practice then. I said it was a skill that had to be learnt. Try learning it. After you've put that effort in you can reap the rewards like I do. Quote: It's really absurd that people are even arguing this. If you don't like it, don't use it. Some of us have full time jobs and our lives do not revolve around EVE. Yes. Me. I had one when I started playing Eve and I still have one. I guess I'm just better at organising my life than you are. It doesn't surprise me. I would estimate that over 95% of people are unable to plan their lives properly. It's the curse of the modern age. It's why so many people complain about being stressed out and rushed off their feet. Learning how to plan your time is an important life skill. I recommend that everyone learn it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Cybele Lanier Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:17:00 - [159] Originally by: Kyra Felann I've said it before, but since this is another skill queue thread, I'll say it again. I would like a 24-hour max queue. It would let players get some of the shortish skills out of the way and would not be exploitable. They'd still have to log in once a day unless they set long skills. That sounds good. It'd certainly be handy for those awkward 7-12 hour ones. --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence."
Lorna Loot Caldari Nox Eternus	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:21:00 - [160] If they introduce skill queue then all the players they **** off with their stupid over the top changes would just set some super long skills and stop paying sub, I know I would do so to train a new race up now gallente, my specialised race have been shat on once again. Oh wait, I am... love 30+ days skills! ----------
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:22:00 - [161] 1 reason why they will not do it is :- if your main is coming to the end of training a skill and is being hunted in a system [logged out at gate etc] you don't have to be online to switch to the next skill ... -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
Brugar	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:31:00 - [162] Two words why this won't happen. "Account sellers"
SiJira	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:24:00 - [163] after a skill queue i want npcs do to all my mineral buying and hauling for me wait can i just sell gtcs and buy a character? thats much easier Trashed sig, Shark was here

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