| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tripoli
   |
Posted - 2004.05.19 06:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tripoli on 07/10/2004 19:07:55
Here's how your attributes work.
This is what most people don't seem to quite understand, so read carefully. The catch is that the 'Learning' skill does not do exactly what it claims. Instead of decreasing training time by 2%, it actually adds 2% more to your attribs per level.
eg.
Base intel 5 with Anayltical Mind lv 5 gives you 10.0 attrib points.
Add learning lv 5 to that and it's (5+5)+((5+5)*5*.02) = 11.0
Add an Basic Implant and it's (5+5+3)+((5+5+3)*5*.02) = 14.3
You'll note the +3.3 attrib gain for adding a +3.0 implant.
Also, you'll notice that your attributes are always displayed as whole numbers. They are rarely actually whole. The number is TRUNCATED, not rounded. For instance, my Memory, which displays as 20, is actually 20.9.
Now, you simply plug your correct attribs into the forumla:
(SPNeeded - CurrentSP) / (PriAttrib + (SecAttrib / 2))
This will yield the total number of minutes remaining.
eg.
Missile Launcher Operation training from 66,096 to 256,000 SP.
Primary attrib is Perception, Secondary is Willpower.
I have Spatial Awareness lv 5, Iron Will lv 5, Learning lv 5, and both relevent Basic implants.
My Perception is (4+5+3)+((4+5+3)*5*.02) = 13.2
My Willpower is (7+5+3)+((7+5+3)*5*.02) = 16.5
(256000-66096)/(13.2+(16.5/2)) = 8853.33 minutes or 6 Days, 3 Hours, 33 Minutes, 20 Seconds. This EXACTLY matches what EVE is telling me is left on this skill....to the second.
To Go To Level 5, Or Not To Go To Level 5?
Constently debated is how whorthwhile is it to train any of the 6 learning skills up to level 5. Well, this is difficult to answer.
OK, using the Missile Launcher Operation skill example in the previous section, with all lv 5 skills and basic implants, the time remaining is 6 Days 3 Hours 33 Minutes 20 Seconds. If I change my skills all down to lv 4, this becomes 6 Days 18 Hours 43 Minutes 42 Seconds. This is a 10% increase in speed for having the lv 5 skills! That'll knock 3 days off of the average person's Industrial lv 5 training. If we just take Learning down to lv 4, it becomes 6 Days 6 Hours 11 Seconds, a 1.65% increase in speed.
Now, based on that, and assuming it takes you exactly 6 days to train Learning from lv 4 to lv 5, this would only be beneficial if you played EVE, after having trained it, for approximately 140 days. It should be noted that the lower you base attribute, the more beneficial higher levels of the learning skills are.
Edit:
New thread started here which covers in deapth how long it takes to pay off training the advanced learning skills to level 5.
---
|
Tank CEO
|
Posted - 2004.05.19 06:10:00 -
[2]
Just goto Eve-I.com and use their skill training time calculator. =)
---
|
Tank CEO
|
Posted - 2004.05.19 06:13:00 -
[3]
I like learning skills. Say I got those adv learning skills to lvl 5 (mem and intell) id have say 28 Memory and 24 Intell, give or take depending on the learning effect AND, thats with just + 3 implants, it will take me i think 10 days or less to learn the other 2 perc/will adv learning skills to lvl 5, (each). =D
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.05.19 06:29:00 -
[4]
Reguarding the Eve-I calculator....it ain't quite right (though it is fairly close). My calculations are exact.
Reguarding the advanced learning skills.....you can bet I'll be training those up pronto when they arrive.  I can't wait.
---
|
Adrastos
|
Posted - 2004.05.20 08:58:00 -
[5]
exellent post, this gets a "sticky" 
EVE Forum Rules - Contact the Moderator Team
|
SKiNNiEH
|
Posted - 2004.05.20 21:00:00 -
[6]
Tripoli rules... as it turns out, i dont know **** about skills :).. This helped!
-------
|
Lord Wimbishi
|
Posted - 2004.05.25 08:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 25/05/2004 09:23:31
Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 25/05/2004 09:05:48
Tripoli you calculations maybe exact but not worked out in the function of points on EVE you think they do.. the learning skill does NOT multiply your attribute points. it shortens the training skill points you NEED to train in order to get to the next level. I wish it would get fixed in game as the skill itself says 2% reduction in skill training time not enhancing the attribute points you currently have. Either calculation works I suppose as the attribute points don't have fractions or thereof as any other modifier in the game has.
Reposted from another sticky.
This is an exact formula I have came up with to resolve this issue.
(P + I)+ Lsk) + (S + I) + Lsk / 2) = T, (Sktp / T) - Lsk%) / 60)/ 24)= Ts
P rimary attrib
I mplants
Lsk Learning attribute skill
S econdary attrib
T otal
Sktp Skill total points needed to train
Sot Sum of Total
Lsk% Learning skill percentage
and / is the divided sign.
make sure you do the math between the ( ) first before continuing on in the chain.
Ok this is how it works
Take add your implant bonuses to your attribute scores then add your learning skill lvls. Then use your primary score as base, then halve your secondary attribute value and then add it to the primary to reach a total skill points per minute. example
(10 int + 3)+ 5) + ( 8 mem + 3) +5 / 2) = 26
Now to figure how the rest comes in you must realise that those 'added' points are not really there and is a 'repensentation' of them not an actual value.
take the total points that you need to train. To find that, you need to take the total points and minus it from the points you already have attained. dividing this sum by your training modifier which was derived from your attributes; will net you the amount of minutes it would take to train.
Example: 45255 of 256000 to get to lvl 5. subtract 45225 from 256000 you get 210745. divide 210745 by 26. you get 8105.57 and on.
You would take this sum finally subtracting your learning skill say like 10%. to get the true amount of skill point time you need to get that next level.
8105.57 subtract 10% for learning lvl5 = 7295.013 minutes to next level.
To find the exact time needed you would begin to divide it by 60; representing 60 mins in the hour, and then by 24 representing the hours in a day to reach the total days and such of how long it will take.
7295.013 / 60 = 121.58 hours which the 58 would = around 32-34 minutes. and 121.58 / 24 = 5.065 days which would correspond to 5 days and 35 min or there of. the skill in question is an electronic skill with a rank of 1.
To really simplify most of the issues with out busting a brain cell look up on www.eve-i.com for the skill training calulater. the biggest thing to remember when using it is to add only your raw begining attributes with your added implants. DO NOT add your learning skill lvl in as it already does this on the below areas of that chart. Only put the starting attribute points and your implant bonuses there leaving the rest up to the chart. You will find it is 100% accurate
|
Lachenlaud
|
Posted - 2004.05.25 12:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lachenlaud on 25/05/2004 22:24:45
 Originally by: Lord Wimbishi
Tripoli you calculations maybe exact but not worked out in the function of points on EVE you think they do.. the learning skill does NOT multiply your attribute points.
You'd be wrong then Wimbishi.
It DOES boost your attributes.
Wanna see it in action - here's an example:
I have a base memory of 11 (eg - what my character started with. I have NO implants.
I have trained the Instant Recall skill to 5.
I have trained the learning skill to 5.
Base (11) + Instant Recall (5) = 16.
Now... my MEMORY shows in Eve at being 17.
In reality what it really is goes as follows:
((B (11) + IR (5)) x (1 + (Learning (5) x 0.02)))
-or-
((11 + 5) x (1 + (5 x 0.02))) = 17.6
Since eve truncates anything behind the decimal, you end up with a display value of 17.
If you need further evidence, you can create an alt character, and do a little training on it and see it for yourself.
Edit: To further educate you folks (as taken from my skills spreadsheet which is available for download from the link below my signature)....
Originally by: Lord Wimbishi
(10 int + 3)+ 5) + ( 8 mem + 3) +5 / 2) = 26
Now to figure how the rest comes in you must realise that those 'added' points are not really there and is a 'repensentation' of them not an actual value.
take the total points that you need to train. To find that, you need to take the total points and minus it from the points you already have attained. dividing this sum by your training modifier which was derived from your attributes; will net you the amount of minutes it would take to train.
Example: 45255 of 256000 to get to lvl 5. subtract 45225 from 256000 you get 210745. divide 210745 by 26. you get 8105.57 and on.
You would take this sum finally subtracting your learning skill say like 10%. to get the true amount of skill point time you need to get that next level.
8105.57 subtract 10% for learning lvl5 = 7295.013 minutes to next level.
^^^ -overly complex and inaccurate- ^^^
vvv -correct way of doing things- vvv
Skill points per level is calculated as follows:
(((2^((2.5 x Level)-2.5)) x 250) x Rank)
The ^ symbol means 'to the power of, which is exponential notation.
This means that skill points per level per rank are NOT calculated simply by multiplying 250 by the level by the rank (250 x level x rank).
A good example of this:
If you have a Rank 1 skill and wish to get it to level 2, you would need 1415 skill points (not 1414 as might readily be assumed).
If you use the formula with exponential notation, this works.
If you do it with the second version as shown above, you end up one point shy, and in some cases you can be two points shy or even one point over. (Thanks again Mesa for pointing this out to me when I was building my spreadsheet for that section!!)
[email protected]
http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/
Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!! |
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.05.25 14:52:00 -
[9]
Couldn't have said it better myself, Lachenlaud.
An example from my own attribs:
Base Intelligence: 11
Implant: +4
Analytical Mind: level 5
Learning: level 5
11+4+5 = 20
and yet my attribute according to both my calculations AND EVE is 22.00
(11+4+5)*1.1 = 22
---
|
Uggster
|
Posted - 2004.05.26 14:00:00 -
[10]
Great thread doods
I have been dithering around getting more of these skills and doing the odd experiment myself but these are nice calculations.
|
DJ Hulredi
|
Posted - 2004.06.03 07:37:00 -
[11]
Good post get linkage
Come Listen to:
Eve Underground
Operations Manager
Learning is important |
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2004.06.26 07:40:00 -
[12]
Just a side note, I suspect where the lvl 5 learning skills are goign to come into play, are when the advanced Cruisers and Battleships start to come out.
With my Perception and Willpower Learning skills at lvl 4, and no implants, it will take me something on the order of a full month of training time just to go from lvl 4 Cruiser to lvl 5 Cruiser. If that's what the Destroyers require, then having lvl 5's in Perception and Willpower will make a significant idfference in reaching them.
Harry Voyager
|
Levin Cavil
|
Posted - 2004.07.03 14:08:00 -
[13]
OK, I want to calculate my training time on smoe skills but I can't use these formulas since I don't remember my starting stats, is there an easy way to calculate that?
------------------------------
<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
|
Levin Cavil
|
Posted - 2004.07.03 14:08:00 -
[14]
OK, I want to calculate my training time on smoe skills but I can't use these formulas since I don't remember my starting stats, is there an easy way to calculate that?
------------------------------
<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
|
Andrew Redburn
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 14:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 09/07/2004 14:50:19
As posted by Tripoli:
(SPNeeded - CurrentSP) / (PriAttrib + (SecAttrib / 2))
Simply use your current stats from your stats tab...
|
Andrew Redburn
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 14:49:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Andrew Redburn on 09/07/2004 14:50:19
As posted by Tripoli:
(SPNeeded - CurrentSP) / (PriAttrib + (SecAttrib / 2))
Simply use your current stats from your stats tab...
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 13:46:00 -
[17]
The calculation rules above don't match with my actual situation:
Want to train Caldari BS from lvl3 to lvl4
My attributes: 17-14-12-13-22 (Int-Per-Cha-Wil-Mem). For attrib. Int, Per, Wil and Mem I've +3.0-implants.
Expected training time in Eve: more than 9 days +
Training time in EVE-I (Training Time Calculator): 6 days +
Any ideas where these big differencies comes from? A bug? 
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 13:46:00 -
[18]
The calculation rules above don't match with my actual situation:
Want to train Caldari BS from lvl3 to lvl4
My attributes: 17-14-12-13-22 (Int-Per-Cha-Wil-Mem). For attrib. Int, Per, Wil and Mem I've +3.0-implants.
Expected training time in Eve: more than 9 days +
Training time in EVE-I (Training Time Calculator): 6 days +
Any ideas where these big differencies comes from? A bug?
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 13:50:00 -
[19]
To concretise my post above:
My learning skills:
Learning and Perception: lvl 5
all others: lvl 4
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 13:50:00 -
[20]
To concretise my post above:
My learning skills:
Learning and Perception: lvl 5
all others: lvl 4
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 15:27:00 -
[21]
God's Wrath, your attributes are actually 17.6 - 14.3 - 12.1 - 13.2 - 22.0
Using 14.3/13.2 in my forumla it will take you 9 days, 21 Hours, 40 Minutes, and 14 seconds to train Caldari Battleship from 64,000 SP up to 362,039 SP.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 15:27:00 -
[22]
God's Wrath, your attributes are actually 17.6 - 14.3 - 12.1 - 13.2 - 22.0
Using 14.3/13.2 in my forumla it will take you 9 days, 21 Hours, 40 Minutes, and 14 seconds to train Caldari Battleship from 64,000 SP up to 362,039 SP.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 15:28:00 -
[23]
Oh, and in case you were wondering, your base attributes are 9-5-7-5-13.
---
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 15:28:00 -
[24]
Oh, and in case you were wondering, your base attributes are 9-5-7-5-13.
---
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 16:55:00 -
[25]
Tripoli, thx for your fast answer.  I took all these informations into an Excel sheet and get now exactly the same results like you. So what I also learned that EVI-I.com calculates wrong (in that case -30%), ... bad for me 
|
God's Wrath
|
Posted - 2004.07.12 16:55:00 -
[26]
Tripoli, thx for your fast answer. I took all these informations into an Excel sheet and get now exactly the same results like you. So what I also learned that EVI-I.com calculates wrong (in that case -30%), ... bad for me
|
Snorri
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 19:51:00 -
[27]
This is how i did it, i made a new char who have the most mem and int with mem beeing the priority.
Caldari dietis it was. base is 7 mem 6 int, than choose the char to be industy man so you get +4 on mem for that. than spent all your 5 points on mem and int (+3 mem +2 mem)
when you done this and chosen the right path (dont remember exacly but its the caldari bottom down left guy) you should get 14 mem and 11-12 int. Start than right away to train the Learning skills (which has the mem as primary attribute) train mem and int to lvl5 before starting anything else. this way you gain a whole lot....
|
Snorri
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 19:51:00 -
[28]
This is how i did it, i made a new char who have the most mem and int with mem beeing the priority.
Caldari dietis it was. base is 7 mem 6 int, than choose the char to be industy man so you get +4 on mem for that. than spent all your 5 points on mem and int (+3 mem +2 mem)
when you done this and chosen the right path (dont remember exacly but its the caldari bottom down left guy) you should get 14 mem and 11-12 int. Start than right away to train the Learning skills (which has the mem as primary attribute) train mem and int to lvl5 before starting anything else. this way you gain a whole lot....
|
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 18:19:00 -
[29]
So what happens with the skill that is curently trained when you suspend(cancel) your account payment? Does that LVL 5 Battleship skill training I started right before the subscripiton expires continue or is everything halted?
_
Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
ivar R'dhak
|
Posted - 2004.09.15 18:19:00 -
[30]
So what happens with the skill that is curently trained when you suspend(cancel) your account payment? Does that LVL 5 Battleship skill training I started right before the subscripiton expires continue or is everything halted?
_
Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |