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Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:53:00 -
[1]
Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.
The problem with passive tanking is it makes you immune to all forms for cap warfare, which imo is not fair, one on one the drake is overpowered vs other battlecruisers as they will have a hard time breaking its tank and its likely the drake will win eventually. Drakes and all forms of passive tanking seriously needs balanceing.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:53:00 -
[2]
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
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Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:54:00 -
[3]
It's fine, and I don't do it. |
Paaaulo
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:55:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
 Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.
You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111
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Von Druid
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Von Druid on 28/07/2008 17:55:17
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
When you active armor tank you sacrifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
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Lt Angus
Caldari
Lt Angus Corp
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
only if u do it wrong
ps dont nerf me 
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
kublai
Caldari
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:57:00 -
[7]
A drake stole my baby :(
A-War Recruiting |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.
You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111
300dps, slow, no tackle, no ewar.
That makes you basically deadweight in a gang, with your only role being dying last, after the rest of the gang loses a fight. Either way, your contribution is probably lower than it would have been in almost any other ship.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:58:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nikita Aratsu on 28/07/2008 18:00:01
the point is the drakes tank is twice as strong (probally more than that) than the rigged hurricane(and does more damage),and the tank cant be broken with neuts, as its 100% capless. passive tanking should be toned down.
or make shield power relays into a module that needs to be active to increase the shields regen, that would be the easiest fix.
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:00:00 -
[10]
Where is the time that Pottsey was ridiculed for starting the discussion on Passive Tanks even when she was saying "it's probably not viable in pvp but who knows?"
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Greenmist
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:00:00 -
[11]
I agree with OP.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Greenmist
I agree with OP.
How many people who say that aren't alts? 
Sure, a good passive tank on a drake may be able to break 600 DPS. but in order to achieve that, you sacrifice almost everything else as a result. Your DPS is unimpressive, you're slow, and have no tackling ability. You basically tell smaller targets to buzz off but become a gigantic target for anything with enough DPS.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
TheG2
Gallente
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TheG2 on 28/07/2008 18:05:43
Passive setups sacrifice a lot in order to be passive, DPS aside.
They lack (usually) any form of Ewar, an afterburner, and usually will suffer a lot from a strong alpha attack. 1v1 they can last for quite a while, but 1 vs many they tend to die quickly.
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Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:07:00 -
[14]
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.
Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.
-- Baldrikk
Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TheG2
1v1 they can last for quite a while, but 1 vs many they tend to die quickly.
Isnt that the same with most ships?
My main point is, there should be a way to counter passive tanks with neuts, make shield power relays an active module and remove the cap recharge bonus.
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tippia on 28/07/2008 18:11:15
Strange…
Building a PST Hurricane gives me a 600-ish DPS omnitank, compared to a 700-ish DPS tank on the Drake. Hardly "twice as strong". Also, given how PG heavy that tank is, the DPS on the Drake goes down to somewhere in the 200:s, compared to 300+ for the Hurricane. Both are completly capless fits.
…but of course, that's only what EFT tells me.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.
You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111
if you cant get 300 DPS out of your hurricane, you're doing something wrong...
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Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.
Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.
cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
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Paaaulo
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.
You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111
if you cant get 300 DPS out of your hurricane, you're doing something wrong...
i didnt say i couldnt :p but with max tank its not much more than that.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.
Just to get some clarification: since you specifically mention "a rigged hurricane" while just saying "a drake", are you talking about an unrigged Drake in this thread?
Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk! |
Demented Fury
Jita Garbage Collection LTD
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.
Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.
cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
I love how you fit for no dps, good job
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Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.
Just to get some clarification: since you specifically mention "a rigged hurricane" while just saying "a drake", are you talking about an unrigged Drake in this thread?
t1 rigged hurricane, with t2 spr's
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Cat Gilligan
Caldari
Blair Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:17:00 -
[23]
Passive tanking also has drawbacks, in that you can't do anything that needs cap...
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Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
Aha, I see now
You are using a badly fitted cane as an example
-- Baldrikk
Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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Nikita Aratsu
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Demented Fury
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.
Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.
cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
I love how you fit for no dps, good job
Im compareing one ship fit for max tank to another fit for max tank, so why would i fit it for dps? the hurricanes already weaker tank uses cap and is weak to neuts, the drakes isnt weak to neuts, and should be, thats the point im getting at.
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Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:21:00 -
[26]
MISSILES ALWAYS HIT! RAW DPS > TANK... badgerbadgerbadger
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Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Im compareing one ship fit for max tank to another fit for max tank, so why would i fit it for dps? the hurricanes already weaker tank uses cap and is weak to neuts, the drakes isnt weak to neuts, and should be, thats the point im getting at.
No you're not. You're comparing a ship fit for max tank with a ship fit for obvious tank… but obvious ≠ max in this case.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:27:00 -
[28]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 28/07/2008 18:33:01
a drake with no BCU's and HMLII's with MAX skills does 250 dps.
so please stop talking about this 300 dps *******s.
with my build (and skills), i tank 640 DPS, produce 231 DPS, and have no speed, no tackle and no juju.
please talk some sense and we can debate ;)
EDIT: if i drop the tanky modules from the lows and swapout for DPS, (IE 3 BCUs), i do 360ish DPS, and i tank 360ish dps.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:32:00 -
[29]
Yeah, unfortunately for the Drake, in order for it to do anything useful like EWAR, speed (HAMs) or damage it has to give up the tank you're complaining about. Stop complaining.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Akiba Penrose
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.28 18:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.
Learn to fit your ships you nub  .
Both those setups are full of fail.
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