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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:35:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
1) No sentry guns. This enables you to use the full range of ships and fittings the game provides.
So pvp is easier because you can use all ships? WTF...
Quote:
No sec drops - you can pirate under the NBSI cop out all you want and still get into hig sec when you need to churn through some lv4s. There is no consequences for your action and you dont have to stand by your decisions
Luckily the -10 pirates care alot about the sec drop they get. Oh wait, they dont give a crap. There are consequences, for example those red ships on your overview shooting you.
And again i have pvp'ed a long time in low sec without the need to let my sec rating drop. Sure i have had GCC often enough, but sometimes killing a ship and sometimes being the one who is attacked by a pirate + faction war targets + -10 pirates as target made sure that i had no issues at all to keep my sec rating positive.
Quote:
Bubbles - The ultimate in no skill pvp.
Wait i thought eve was dieing because people could escape non consensual pvp. Now being able to prevent them for escaping is skilless? This is getting really confusing.
Quote:
FC Drone Bay - when the blobs form up - your an extended drone bay for the FC. No initiative is needed. No skill is needed. No thought is needed. Warp to where the fc says, shoot at what the fc says, retreat when the fc says.
Could be, didnt do that much blobs.
Quote:
Epic Lag - the only thing hard about 0.0 pvp is putting up with lag - and the amount of 0.0ers that put up with epic lag fests again and again and again shows truely how brain dead they are.
Serious come to 0.0 and find out that not everything is blob warfare everywhere. Havent had any trouble yet with lag in 0.0.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:36:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Furb Killer
misc. crap...
Debating stuff with people like yourself is impossible, but I'll try.
Example: just the other day I killed a Myrmidon with my Sentinel. Why? Because I like testing the limits of what I can do in PVP. My goal is to kill a BS with it eventually, if I can find one that will hold still long enough, and that *isn't on a gate or a station so that I can engage it with a =frig=*.
99.99% of my kills are at a gate or station because I have to force fights. Not with carebear mission runners, but with all the 'hardcore PVPers' out there 'looking for fights'. 99% of the people I run into that are pvp equipped are looking to kill someone 12 on 1, not actually get into a fight. *Today* in fact I sat on the otherside of a highsec gate in lowsec with four people in my gang waiting for a twelve person gang to jump in and attack. They didn't.
Their excuse when I asked them why they didn't engage? 'We were waiting for you to jump into us'. I'm a pirate. I'm -10. They're in high sec. They know all of this. TBH it's crap like this that is making a lot of pirates rat their sec back up so that they can war dec people like that and bring the fight to them regardless of system security. But I hear that's being nerfed too. 
Again, the point of my post was this: be warned PVPers, regardless of how you choose to PVP, your PVP is going to be increasingly limited as to where when and how you can fight, with the target having more and more of a say in how that happens.
And you're telling me that I'm *wrong*? *SHOW* me why that above statement is just flat out wrong. Please. Show me one thing that CCP has done to -increase- the ability for people to attack other people. *Increase* offensive oriented combat. *Increase* the opportunities to kill people (in the game, lol?).
I'm very interested to hear your examples.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:38:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 11:38:57
Heavy interdictors...
Quote:
99.99% of my kills are at a gate or station because I have to force fights. Not with carebear mission runners, but with all the 'hardcore PVPers' out there 'looking for fights'. 99% of the people I run into that are pvp equipped are looking to kill someone 12 on 1, not actually get into a fight. *Today* in fact I sat on the otherside of a highsec gate in lowsec with four people in my gang waiting for a twelve person gang to jump in and attack. They didn't.
And you are equipped to kill people 4 vs 1. How is that so much better than 12 vs 1? And when i look at your recent kills most of them were either unarmed, had pve fitting, or might as well have had no fitting.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:39:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 11:44:06
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 11:43:21
Originally by: Furb Killer
No shit, in a fight it is always watching local when his friends arrive, but even in best case it will take them at least 1 minute to arrive, which is assuming they were allready in pvp ships in system next door and alligned to right gate.
At least 1 minute in best case? Who do you fight, Hydra or something? If you're not done (read: warping out already) in a minute, then you're going to die if the guy has mates. So boosting EHP/tank + nerfing tackle capability of solo ships is good how?
If that's the desirable direction for EvE PVP, then I'm glad I'm in a corp which doesn't mind blobbing/hotdropping targets, because I'll still be able to PvP successfully even if they nerf gank even more. I hear it's exciting and tactical, too.
Originally by: Furb
Quote:
Bubbles - The ultimate in no skill pvp.
Wait i thought eve was dieing because people could escape non consensual pvp. Now being able to prevent them for escaping is skilless? This is getting really confusing.
See, low-sec options for preventing people escaping are getting diminished even more, and even before they were not nearly as efficent as bubbles, not even close (not to mention, you can't use interceptors/etc in low-sec on gates or stations, unless you're ganking pirates).
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
Oh hai, I did not read the manual of the game I'm playing, and I'm too scared to post with my main.
Well, read the manual and post with your main.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Furb Killer
misc. crap...
Debating stuff with people like yourself is impossible, but I'll try.
Example: just the other day I killed a Myrmidon with my Sentinel. Why? Because I like testing the limits of what I can do in PVP. My goal is to kill a BS with it eventually, if I can find one that will hold still long enough, and that *isn't on a gate or a station so that I can engage it with a =frig=*.
99.99% of my kills are at a gate or station because I have to force fights. Not with carebear mission runners, but with all the 'hardcore PVPers' out there 'looking for fights'. 99% of the people I run into that are pvp equipped are looking to kill someone 12 on 1, not actually get into a fight. *Today* in fact I sat on the otherside of a highsec gate in lowsec with four people in my gang waiting for a twelve person gang to jump in and attack. They didn't.
Their excuse when I asked them why they didn't engage? 'We were waiting for you to jump into us'. I'm a pirate. I'm -10. They're in high sec. They know all of this. TBH it's crap like this that is making a lot of pirates rat their sec back up so that they can war dec people like that and bring the fight to them regardless of system security. But I hear that's being nerfed too.
Again, the point of my post was this: be warned PVPers, regardless of how you choose to PVP, your PVP is going to be increasingly limited as to where when and how you can fight, with the target having more and more of a say in how that happens.
And you're telling me that I'm *wrong*? *SHOW* me why that above statement is just flat out wrong. Please. Show me one thing that CCP has done to -increase- the ability for people to attack other people. *Increase* offensive oriented combat. *Increase* the opportunities to kill people (in the game, lol?).
I'm very interested to hear your examples.
I've got so many examples of this it's saddening. Such as jumping in on 0.0 gate camps which just warp off if they dont have capital support even though they outnumber us 4:1
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:42:00 -
[66]
And i got a long list of examples of pirates gatecamping and running to station when an enemy fleet comes in same region as they are.
Or the pirates station camping with carriers that are further inside the station than the average nyx can fly into a caldari station.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Furb Killer
What i really like to know, there seems to be two opinions here:
Eve is going to die/suck because people cant escape from blobs. In other words: Nanos cant escape when jumping into a larger fleet.
Eve is going to die/suck because people can escape non consensual combat. In other words: Ships can escape when jumping into a larger fleet (or at least when they are outgunned).
I like to know which one exactly is the reason eve is going to die/suck.
Both.
(Don't construe this as my being pro-nano, I'm not)
Nano ships won't be able to evade blobs. They die. It takes a blob of people to kill a target. This is bad.
A ship jumps into a system with a solo player waiting at a gate for a target. Ship jumps back through and escapes because of 50% web, couldn't get a 9km scram on it, blah blah blah. This is bad because now you have to have a blob to kill a target, any target. Even a big slow BS. It takes a blob of people now to kill a target. This is bad.
I repeated some of the key parts there for you so you would comprehend it.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:44:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Maximillian Bayonette on 11/08/2008 11:44:18
Originally by: Furb Killer
Carebear crap
WTF happened to -V-. You guys used to be cool.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:45:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/08/2008 11:45:37
Originally by: Furb Killer
text
1) Yes of course. Low secers have to make do with 70% of the possible ships/fittings effectively out of bounds. ITs a handicap the 0.0 pvpers do not have, and it means you have to be more skillful to succeed.
2) BAH - militia wars are a load of old tosh. Its queensbury rules "not in the face" cheap clone, pvp flag, scaredy blobs, no risk, drakes and shitty fits. How do i know - I have a spy alt in one of the militias, and its so pointless I go afk in "our" blob with "their" blob on the other side of the gate.
SKUNK
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:46:00 -
[70]
But you just said you were with 4 players. Then you can both web and scram the target without problems...
1. I dont represent -V-, it is just my own opinion, not theirs.
2. how is it carebear crap?
Thesedays carebear is just another word for someone you disagree with 
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:48:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Or the pirates station camping with carriers that are further inside the station than the average nyx can fly into a caldari station.
Use a nano macherial and bump the enemy off station.... oh wait...... its getting gimpnerfed
SKUNK
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Furb Killer
And i got a long list of examples of pirates gatecamping and running to station when an enemy fleet comes in same region as they are.
Or the pirates station camping with carriers that are further inside the station than the average nyx can fly into a caldari station.
real pirates don't run unless they know they are gonna die. they search for the fight that they may win or lose - as long as it is a good fight. Now we actually have videos proving my examples, how about you? Cus I would love to see a bunch of pirates warping off because an enemy fleet is in the same region, I need a good laugh.
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Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Furb Killer
But you just said you were with 4 players. Then you can both web and scram the target without problems...
1. I dont represent -V-, it is just my own opinion, not theirs.
2. how is it carebear crap?
Thesedays carebear is just another word for someone you disagree with
It's carebear crap because you're arguing from the standpoint of a member of "the blob", and try to use those experiences to lecture solo pvpers. You get hung up on parts of sentences and fail to read the entire thing. You argue from the standpoint that your opponent is a griefer.
All these are trademarks of carebear arguing techniques.
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:51:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Furb Killer
Or the pirates station camping with carriers that are further inside the station than the average nyx can fly into a caldari station.
Use a nano macherial and bump the enemy off station.... oh wait...... its getting gimpnerfed
SKUNK
Don't worry, I remember the Typhoo...ohwait nosry
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:51:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 11:52:26
Where exactly do i argue from blob point of view? And how exactly dont i do solo pvp?
And i am sure i can find somewhere a vid of pirates running when a fleet comes in same system (you realise that is pretty hard to put in a vid?), then you just tell they arent real pirates. Maybe we should first define what real pirates are.
And what are those who only fight when they are 100% sure they win and prefer to target industrials and rookie ships when they arent pirates?
Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off...
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:52:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Furb Killer
And i got a long list of examples of pirates gatecamping and running to station when an enemy fleet comes in same region as they are.
So you fully endorse giving us more abilities to run? Because that's what you were saying, too. 
Interestingly enough, gatecamping pirates wouldn't have any victims if our victims learned to use scouts like we do
Originally by: Furb Killer
Or the pirates station camping with carriers that are further inside the station than the average nyx can fly into a caldari station.
Yeah, I see you've been to Tama. It's one of the exceedingly rare stations where station camping makes any sense at all, because people undock 5km off redock range.
On the other hand, with most other stations, station camping is totally pointless, because your targets can just redock immediately.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:53:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Franga on 11/08/2008 11:57:46
Originally by: Arctur Ceti
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I'll adapt and inflict pain and misery on carebears regardless of what CCP does until they remove nonconsentual PVP completely.
That's your problem right there. This isn't the game you think it is.
Edit: you answered.
With regards to your answer (which came on page 2) - I think there are certain things that CCP deems as exploits of the game mechanics, but in terms of harrassing someone because they are there - no. I believe that Bellum is correct when he says there is no such thing in EVE.
Also, by the looks of it to me according to your comments - it's not actually the game that you think it is either.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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drendell
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:53:00 -
[78]
im a pve or care bears as most people call us i cant wait to get out to 0.0 and have to keep watch at all times for pvpers its unfortunate that pvp is seems to be dieing out, even though im a miner and hauler i like the thrill of knowing that this trip could end up with me being held for ransom.
so to all you pvpers out there stick to it i hope that ccp will start making your life's better soon, and anyway im trying to move out to low sec that should give you one more target.
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drendell
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:54:00 -
[79]
Edited by: drendell on 11/08/2008 11:54:08
error double post
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:56:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 11:58:01
Actually i have never seen in tama a carrier station camping. In old man star senate station they are camping half of the time with capitals. And no it doesnt make sense, i have undocked 50 times with them camping, and they never got me. Just stop ship, wait 30 seconds, redock. But then i am stuck in the station if i want to fly a larger ship.
It wont really give pirates much more ability to run. When gatecamping they are on the gate allready usually. So when they want to jump they dont need to run anywhere, just press the button. Sure if you got 2 fleets you can then still catch them, but usually not.
And what if we play solo and have no scout? Oh wait, eve isnt game to play solo. Unless you are solo pirating because then it is an issue...
Last time i got camped in a station by pirate capitals they had thanatos, phoenix, nighthawk and sometimes another ship. All trying to get as close to station as possible. An hour long i couldnt undock with battlecruiser. (well i did undock but couldnt get into warp before they had me locked). The result: 2 rookie ships destroyed, 1 industrial, 1 shuttle. Must be fascinating game play.
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:58:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 11:52:26
Where exactly do i argue from blob point of view? And how exactly dont i do solo pvp?
And i am sure i can find somewhere a vid of pirates running when a fleet comes in same system (you realise that is pretty hard to put in a vid?), then you just tell they arent real pirates. Maybe we should first define what real pirates are.
And what are those who only fight when they are 100% sure they win and prefer to target industrials and rookie ships when they arent pirates?
Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off...
oh yeah we kill industrials as well but for reasons like 2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods. I didn't say we ONLY look for fair fights but I sure as hell would like more of them. I only kill helpless targets to try and make a tiny bit of the isk back that I lose when I die.
Also, you said that pirates running were from your own experience not some random video.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.11 11:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off...
Thats because your all pansies flying around in t1 fully insured myrms
SKUNK
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Furb Killer
Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off...
Thats because your all pansies flying around in t1 fully insured myrms
SKUNK
Skunk - I read alot of your comments and you're on the money alot of the time. But some of your arguments are horrible. See above.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:00:00 -
[84]
Originally by: drendell
im a pve or care bears as most people call us i cant wait to get out to 0.0 and have to keep watch at all times for pvpers its unfortunate that pvp is seems to be dieing out, even though im a miner and hauler i like the thrill of knowing that this trip could end up with me being held for ransom.
so to all you pvpers out there stick to it i hope that ccp will start making your life's better soon, and anyway im trying to move out to low sec that should give you one more target.
You're gonna be sorely dissapointed.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Furb Killer
Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off...
Thats because your all pansies flying around in t1 fully insured myrms
SKUNK
Skunk - I read alot of your comments and you're on the money alot of the time. But some of your arguments are horrible. See above.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:00:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 12:01:03
Originally by: Furb Killer
And i am sure i can find somewhere a vid of pirates running when a fleet comes in same system (you realise that is pretty hard to put in a vid?), then you just tell they arent real pirates. Maybe we should first define what real pirates are.
I think I echo the opinion of the majority of pirate FCs when I say that the correct course of action when a larger fleet is nextdoor, you're agressed on the gate, and they've got Falcon pilots with them (we keep them at negative standings as a rule, so you're not suprising us twice even if we don't spot it first go) is run away. Of course, I realize that for some truly hardcore people, being melted away while 90% of you are jammed is funny. And that's what the situation is with anti-pirates next door most of the time.
Hell, I've occasionally fought in such fights (sometimes taking someone with me, gank ships with ECCM and full out heat for the win), but they're generally total suicide and a great way to go bankrupt fast - and if there's something real pirates don't do, they don't buy GTCs/run L4s/etc.
Originally by: Furb Killer
And what are those who only fight when they are 100% sure they win and prefer to target industrials and rookie ships when they arent pirates?
I don't consider people who pirate for the lols (rather then ISK) proper pirates. So logic (or simple math really) dictates that a big part of your kills must be a result of generally unfair fights, or fights where you have a edge your opponents don't know about (either due to ship fittings, SP/implants, friends, target selection, them being clueless nubbins).
Of course, if you make running easier, we'll do it too. If you make blobbing more important, we'll do it too (at least the ones in corps). If you kill solo combat, we just won't solo. But it diminishes the fun for us all, both pirates and anti-pirates.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Call'Da Poleece
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:01:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lorz0r
2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods
Killmail or it didnt happen |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:03:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Lorz0r
2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods
Killmail or it didnt happen
http://kb.killer-koalas.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3763
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:06:00 -
[89]
I got those pirate gatecamps running when fleet comes near from own experience yes, but never put it on vid. And that vid wouldnt show anything besides a scout reporting they all docked.
I am so gonna get flamed for this one, but:
Yes imo 'real' pirates fight for isk and not lulz. I understand they gank industrials. I personally dont like ganking them, but i dont have problems with others doing it. I understand sometimes in rookie ships they transport BPO's, so i can get it why you gank them.
But the chance a rookie ship that is mining in a belt transports BPOs is pretty small.
And i am pretty sure the majority of those flashie reds in low sec dont do it for the isk. They destroyed me often enough, and i have never had anyone asking for a ransom.
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Sweet Laylah
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Posted - 2008.08.11 12:10:00 -
[90]
Bellum 4tw tbh.
People speak of making fights more interesting well fact is the most interesting fights I have had by far are those involving nano gang v nano gang. Sure beats dps v tank slugfest that often end in docking or jumping.
You actually need fly ya ship, be spacially aware of ya corp mates, have to maintain points on multiple taregts, still apply dps and not get picked off. No EFT plus dock/jump finger hover will help.
As for ganks - well escaping a gank after you stupidly jumped your BS into a rapier by dawdling back to gate is pure lameness. It's game mechanics overcoming stupidity.
As for always flying with 5+ wingmates, well thats fine I'm sure .. unless you want to hunt alone or with a couple others ...
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