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Eve PVP- where is it headed? You tell me....

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Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:11:00 - [91] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Furb Killer Sure i see those carriers being bumped by nano machs all the time. Oh wait actually i have never seen them being bumped off... Thats because your all pansies flying around in t1 fully insured myrms SKUNK Pwned tbh. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:12:00 - [92] Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 12:13:33 If you get back to gate with rapier on you they had serious lack of firepower. But you like to fly nanos, you like to be able to run away from larger fleets, but you dont like people able to run away from larger pirate fleets? Edit: And i thought no one would take that comment from skunk serious, guess i was wrong. Now try a t2 myrmidon and soon that fully insured becomes losing 40 million per myrmidon.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:15:00 - [93] Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Lorz0r 2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods Killmail or it didnt happen http://kb.killer-koalas.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3763 Lol hydra rocks. Vote against the nano nerf!
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:15:00 - [94] Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Lorz0r 2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods Killmail or it didnt happen http://kb.killer-koalas.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3763 when people say 'we' they usually mean a group with your participation or maybe a group of your corp mates... this wouldnt appear to be either. Or maybe you mean 'we' = pirates? and ffs, hydra, what are they like? I have never seen such muppets I'm the short fortuneteller who escaped from prison: a small medium at large.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:23:00 - [95] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 11/08/2008 12:24:16 Originally by: Furb Killer I got those pirate gatecamps running when fleet comes near from own experience yes, but never put it on vid. And that vid wouldnt show anything besides a scout reporting they all docked. I am so gonna get flamed for this one, but: Yes imo 'real' pirates fight for isk and not lulz. I understand they gank industrials. I personally dont like ganking them, but i dont have problems with others doing it. I understand sometimes in rookie ships they transport BPO's, so i can get it why you gank them. But the chance a rookie ship that is mining in a belt transports BPOs is pretty small. And i am pretty sure the majority of those flashie reds in low sec dont do it for the isk. They destroyed me often enough, and i have never had anyone asking for a ransom. Furb- You're making the same mistake most of my vitims do: you're assuming that pirates do things 'because we have to' not 'just because we can'. We don't kill haulers and shuttles and noob ships and whatever else because that's all we can kill. We do it because we can. Because we kill absolutely everything and anything that crosses our paths that we can get a point on. We also kill all the big bad mean 'PVP' ships as well. But yes, we do indeed kill all the little stuff that is supposedly 'not worth killing'. Usually because one in a hundred (I wish) carries a billion ISK BS BPO or an officer mod or some other silly crap. One other thing: back in the day, T2 mods used to be worth a lot of ISK. The ISK density per kill was quite high. You don't get any ISK from a killmail. All the ISK you get from a kill is what's left in the can (wreck). I try to ransom people all the time. What transpires is usually something like this: me: "YARR! Your money or your life! Pay me ISK and I'll let you live!!!" them: blocked me: ....not again... kills their ship kills their pod I killed a Navy Mega just the other night that did exactly that. Wouldn't cooperate at all. Regardless, it's getting harder and harder to make ISK by killing people and taking their stuff, as their stuff (T2) is worth crap these days with all the falling prices due to too many carebears producing and too many farmers making cheap mins. Have you looked at the prices of Navy Megas lately? They're 300m ISK! It's insane! These days every ISK farmer flies a CNR FFS. All due to the lack of nonconsentual PVP and CCP holding player's hands in order to keep them safe. If killers like myself had access to targets like those, the Eve economy wouldn't be the shitpile that it is today. And now with the suicide gank nerf it's guaranteed that nobody will be touching mission runners in high sec for a very long time, if at all. Just as an example. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:29:00 - [96] Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/08/2008 12:32:50 I know exactly what your kind of pirates do (that isnt an insult, you got those who shoot everything they see, those who do it pure for profit (very small group), and those who shoot everything that is unarmed). But you say yourself that you right now shoot basicly everything that comes through a gate. How is it such a huge issue when a small percentage escapes? Checked some of your kills when you made topic, and too lazy to check again, but that navy mega had horrible fitting from what i remember. Then add he apparently got podded too, and we can conclude he was a noob (98% of those who get podded in low sec arent experienced with pvp). Do you seriously think that after web changes they all will burn back to the gate without fighting and jump through? I really doubt it. And web changes might hurt you, but i also like to be able to move a bit when doing close range fights. Right now in small gangs it is: outside 10 km going 5km/s. Or inside 10km going 0m/s due to multiple 90% webs on you. I would enjoy it alot more when i can actually move. Now i understand perfectly why you dont like it. But from my (egocentric) point of view: I like changes (when i pvp, not so i can escape pirates better without fighting), you dont like changes. I still like changes, so i am happy with changes. Okay true, if you ransom me i wont block you, but i will hope you didnt notice that i started self destruct timer. Even if i would pay ransom most would probably still destroy me. Now if we could continue the debate like this, in a civilised way, i would be really happy (allthough i got to go in a while ) Edit: Navy megas, few months ago i bought one (yep for carebearing in high sec when i feel like it), and they were 400M. Sure once saw one for 300M, but before i managed to reach the region it was in someone bought it. In the end i bought one for 410M with 2 CCC rigs iirc. But it could be that it dropped alot, didnt check it recently.
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:41:00 - [97] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Lorz0r 2 days ago we killed a t1 unscouted hauler that jumped into lowsec carrying 1.6 billion in mods Killmail or it didnt happen http://kb.killer-koalas.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3763 when people say 'we' they usually mean a group with your participation or maybe a group of your corp mates... this wouldnt appear to be either. Or maybe you mean 'we' = pirates? and ffs, hydra, what are they like? I have never seen such muppets Although we aren't an alliance, we are allied corps and we all camp the same lowsec areas, we just didnt happen to be in the same fleet at the time.
Sumiya Tanaka	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:42:00 - [98] The bigger deal isn't these changes. The bigger deal is that there is no real reason to be in low sec space (other than FW, now). CCP has got the risk/reward a bit screwed up from the perspective of ISK earnings, due to the level 4 mission situation. That sets up a reality whereby most players have their ISK pump in high sec space -- even 0.0 players will have their ISK pump there, too. So in the in-between land of low sec space, there's a significant design issue around incentivizing more players to be there (and not just in the FW war zones). If this were adjusted, there would be enough targets in low sec to keep the pirates happy, even given all of the changes mentioned in the OP.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:42:00 - [99] Originally by: Furb Killer <snip for space> Yeah, that particular guy probably wouldn't have made it back to the gate, but my point is Furb, those who don't want to fight will have a lot more opportunity to avoid it, even when they screw up horribly and put themselves right into the middle of a situation that should get them killed. This, and the fact that in order to secure a kill with any sort of reliability, as Skunk has already very well illustrated (thank you Skunk) it will take a small blob (at a minimum) to get the job done. Which is bad. Oh, and one thing to note about that guy being podded- I tried to open convo with him, and he blocked me, then I told him to eject (I knew he wouldn't have anything of worth fit to his ship lol) or I'd destroy the ship and pod him. He didn't eject, so of course I had to follow through and pod him. But how many people do you know that can get their pod out before some faction smartbombs make it go squish? He logged off and I still squished him before he could emergency warp off. What is funny is that in the last couple weeks I've made over half a bill from bounties off of 'pirates', but in three plus years of pirating, I don't ever recall anyone getting a bounty off of my head, except for maybe once when I was in a hauler in 0.0 for about 20m. Maybe I should be known as a bounty hunter instead? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:50:00 - [100] Originally by: Sumiya Tanaka The bigger deal isn't these changes. The bigger deal is that there is no real reason to be in low sec space (other than FW, now). CCP has got the risk/reward a bit screwed up from the perspective of ISK earnings, due to the level 4 mission situation. That sets up a reality whereby most players have their ISK pump in high sec space -- even 0.0 players will have their ISK pump there, too. So in the in-between land of low sec space, there's a significant design issue around incentivizing more players to be there (and not just in the FW war zones). If this were adjusted, there would be enough targets in low sec to keep the pirates happy, even given all of the changes mentioned in the OP. The irony of FW is that it's actually ruined lowsec. No, I'm not kidding. A lot of my pirate friends are simply ratting their sec up so they can escape the fowl smell of FW. All FW has done was bring nano blobs of cheap crap ships into lowsec. Indeed, because of these FW blobs, even the small amount of non-pirate traffic that was there before FW has dried up to pretty much zero. I was really looking forward to FW, hoping that it would add a lot of depth to the game and a lot of content for end game players. Instead what CCP gave us was some fluff aimed at carebears who 'want to get their feet wet'. Instead of NPC agents incentivising PVP with ISK bounties for kills, all we got is this capture complexes crap and ship restrictions. When I see frigs and other little crap ships jump through my gates, I don't even bother chasing them half the time because I just can't be bothered. Now with FW it's the same thing, only there's 50 little crap ships that I can't be bothered to chase instead of just one. FW was a huge disappointment for me and most of the players that I know. 80% of my crew has fixed their sec so they can wardec people. Guess what's getting nerfed next? Lol. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:55:00 - [101] FW decreased ammount of pirate gatecamps by alot, and most FW fleets dont fire on neutrals, making it much safer for random people to travel through low sec space. You say the problem is that people can escape, but is that a problem? When people can actually escape some of camps in low sec they might have more reason to stay there. Right now the first experience most people got with low sec pvp is getting caught in a pirategatecamp without ANY chance of escaping.
Sumiya Tanaka	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:57:00 - [102] Oh I know that FW was no real boon to low sec pirates. But my point is that there needs to be other reasons for people to be in low sec other than FW. If people were forced to bring their level 4 mission boats into low sec to get their ISK, that would change low sec dramatically.
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:57:00 - [103] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Arctur Ceti Oh hai, I did not read the manual of the game I'm playing, and I'm too scared to post with my main. Well, read the manual and post with your main. 1) Nice strawman you set up there. 2) Point me to this manual of yours. Enlighten me with your unquestioned knowledge that even CCP fails to understand. 3) Real men like you post with a real toon versus a fake one. You sir, reek of manly testosterone. And that can only mean you must mate alot in real life. Congratulations.
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:01:00 - [104] Real men dont use toons.
hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:04:00 - [105] Hey Bellum, since you asked, I thought of a few things CCP did to encourage PvP. 1) Release large warp disruptor bubbles 2) Interdictors 3) Heavy Interdictors 4) Nerf WCS to hell ...although I admit these points mainly make difference only in a 0.0 theatre of operations, and not Low Sec. But I'd argue that PvP happens in 0.0 anyway, and only 'pirating' and 'griefing' happens in Low Sec -omg-
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:16:00 - [106] Originally by: Sumiya Tanaka Oh I know that FW was no real boon to low sec pirates. But my point is that there needs to be other reasons for people to be in low sec other than FW. If people were forced to bring their level 4 mission boats into low sec to get their ISK, that would change low sec dramatically. Just to be clear: I'm agreeing with you 100%. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Sumiya Tanaka	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:21:00 - [107] Petition to CCP: Fix Low Sec! Low sec is like the poor bastard child of EVE, really. High sec is where everyone throngs, and null-sec is what CCP cares about, but low sec is just kind of the red-headed stepchild of the game, atm.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:27:00 - [108] PvP has been declared dead in EvE more times than Elvis has been sighted.
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:27:00 - [109] I dont really think forcing people into low sec is the answer. But giving people a good incentive such as LP would be a good change. This could really only come about if LP from high sec agents was stopped and low sec and 0.0 agents gave out the LP. Not everyone would go to low sec to get LP but those that do will be rewarded largely. It would also help spread out the mission runners in high sec, they would no longer be all hugging that Q18 agent.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:28:00 - [110] Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/08/2008 13:28:30 Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/08/2008 13:27:43 Originally by: Furb Killer (98% of those who get podded in low sec arent experienced with pvp) 100% of people who say this are wrong SKUNK edited
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:34:00 - [111] Originally by: Sumiya Tanaka Petition to CCP: Fix Low Sec! Low sec is like the poor bastard child of EVE, really. High sec is where everyone throngs, and null-sec is what CCP cares about, but low sec is just kind of the red-headed stepchild of the game, atm. There is no fix for lowsec. It's the player created Hell of EvE that everybody wants it to be just nobody has the balls to admit it. Pirate/PvP/PK ridden hell which has no brakes and no matter how juicy you make the bait look like, no sane carebear will ever stay there unless protected. I have lived almost in every security part of EvE. I find alliance 0.0 the most fun one with highsec level 4s close behind. The first one for the opportunities as well as the danger and the second one for the calm game time I want to have at times with a few friends. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:39:00 - [112] Originally by: Hugh Ruka ...PK ... lol SKUNK
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:43:00 - [113] Originally by: Hugh Ruka There is no fix for lowsec. It's the player created Hell of EvE that everybody wants it to be just nobody has the balls to admit it. Pirate/PvP/PK ridden hell which has no brakes and no matter how juicy you make the bait look like, no sane carebear will ever stay there unless protected. And this is the real problem with low sec. It's turned into the place you go to take a crap and nothing more. Now it smells bad and we want CCP to clean our mess. In the mean time now we want to turn hi sec into a crapper as well, except CCP is will not allow it. And thus some of us are having fits.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:51:00 - [114] Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 11/08/2008 13:53:15 Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Hugh Ruka ...PK ... lol SKUNK killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:54:00 - [115] Senseless Pkin is what makes Low sec great.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:55:00 - [116] Originally by: Hugh Ruka killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. Didn't realise you where the judge on what constitutes piracy and not. Sorry 'bout that.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:58:00 - [117] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Hugh Ruka killing evrything that jumps through a gate is not piracy. Piracy by definition has economic(sp?) motives behind. that includes making sure the target is worth the ammo you are wasting. every carebear would be ok if lowsec only had proper wars and proper piracy. it's the senseless PKing that's the problem. Didn't realise you where the judge on what constitutes piracy and not. Sorry 'bout that. don't be an idiot and try to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:59:00 - [118] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Senseless Pkin is what makes Low sec great. orly ? there are too many 'fix lowsec' threads then from clueless people :-) seems there is nothing to fix and you are extremely happy about the state of lowsec. next time I see a whine thread from a pirate that want's to push people out of highsec, I will link your post :-) --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Hugh Ruka don't be an idiot and try to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy Nice link. I especially like the actual defenition. Originally by: your link Maritime piracy, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, consists of any criminal acts of violence, detention, or depredation committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or aircraft that is directed on the high seas against another ship, aircraft, or against persons or property on board a ship or aircraft. Doesn't say anything about economic reasons. Just "private ends" which can be just about anything. Way to shoot your argument in the foot, m8
FlameGlow Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:06:00 - [120] Originally by: hired goon Hey Bellum, since you asked, I thought of a few things CCP did to encourage PvP. 1) Release large warp disruptor bubbles 2) Interdictors 3) Heavy Interdictors 4) Nerf WCS to hell ...although I admit these points mainly make difference only in a 0.0 theatre of operations, and not Low Sec. But I'd argue that PvP happens in 0.0 anyway, and only 'pirating' and 'griefing' happens in Low Sec Plenty of HICs in lowsec gatecamps, typically they just sit on the gate with a BS for DPS/sensor boosting and instalock+infinipoint anyone going through. And don't forget the upcoming speed nerf it'll make getting away or back to gate harder. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.

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