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[MEGA THREAD] The Amarr problem

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Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.17 20:05:00 - [121] Originally by: Naomi Knight Most of you thinks amarr is a good race for pvp ,maybe true ,but these ships clearly need a buff, so buff them. Amarr need a nerf. Tripling the cap use on lasers and removing their dronebays would do the trick. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.17 20:11:00 - [122] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Naomi Knight Most of you thinks amarr is a good race for pvp ,maybe true ,but these ships clearly need a buff, so buff them. Amarr need a nerf. Tripling the cap use on lasers and removing their dronebays would do the trick. Do you actually use these ships for pvp , or you just post stupid comments because your nanoships are going to be nerfed?
SSteejans El Corporation de Newbs	Posted - 2008.08.18 00:15:00 - [123] Edited by: SSteejans on 18/08/2008 00:15:43 Originally by: Siddy Geddon needs that 5% rof changed to 7,5% rof bonus, and preferably 20% to cap reduction Abaddon needs Bigger drone bay and more armor HP. Megapulses needs more tracking, its ben issue since day 1. Maybe slight damage boost to tacyons, not worth using at the moment. That whuld fix it, yeah. uhm.. yeah. the geddon is most definatly not in need of any changes. its amazing. though as a whole i think amarr ships should not have one of their bonuses dedicated just to making them able to fire their guns without capping out. i think they should lower the cap use of lasers and replace the laser cap use bonus with something useful. even if the replacement bonuses are crappy and useless it will at least be better than a bonus that just says "yeah you can fire your guns" large pulse tracking IS significantly lower than the tracking of large blasters and autocannons, BUT i dont think this is really a crisis. it would be nice but its certainly not a game breaking thing. its kind of a trade off for the better range. as for tachyons.. um.. no. tachs do insane damage. they only do slightly less damage than megapulse in fact, and they carry the awesome alpha strike. if anything needs to be done with tachs it is to lower their fitting reqs slightly. its rather annoying to need 2 T2 reactor controls just to put guns on a ship with nothing else fit yet... for all the other changes talked about.. sure, some ships kind of suck. they could use some love, but its not the end of the world. mainly im talking about the omens lack of powergrid, maller being.. silly.. and the prophecy just plain sucking lol beyond those 3 ships, dont try to fix what aint broke! edit: give the retribution some love. i friggin LOVE the ship but 1 mid slot kills it. also rockets should be more pwn in general, theyre fun. kthnx.
Lili Lu Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2008.08.18 00:26:00 - [124] Edited by: Lili Lu on 18/08/2008 00:28:18 Originally by: SSteejans Edited by: SSteejans on 18/08/2008 00:15:43 Originally by: Siddy Geddon needs that 5% rof changed to 7,5% rof bonus, and preferably 20% to cap reduction Abaddon needs Bigger drone bay and more armor HP. Megapulses needs more tracking, its ben issue since day 1. Maybe slight damage boost to tacyons, not worth using at the moment. That whuld fix it, yeah. uhm.. yeah. the geddon is most definatly not in need of any changes. its amazing. though as a whole i think amarr ships should not have one of their bonuses dedicated just to making them able to fire their guns without capping out. i think they should lower the cap use of lasers and replace the laser cap use bonus with something useful. even if the replacement bonuses are crappy and useless it will at least be better than a bonus that just says "yeah you can fire your guns" large pulse tracking IS significantly lower than the tracking of large blasters and autocannons, BUT i dont think this is really a crisis. it would be nice but its certainly not a game breaking thing. its kind of a trade off for the better range. as for tachyons.. um.. no. tachs do insane damage. they only do slightly less damage than megapulse in fact, and they carry the awesome alpha strike. if anything needs to be done with tachs it is to lower their fitting reqs slightly. its rather annoying to need 2 T2 reactor controls just to put guns on a ship with nothing else fit yet... for all the other changes talked about.. sure, some ships kind of suck. they could use some love, but its not the end of the world. mainly im talking about the omens lack of powergrid, maller being.. silly.. and the prophecy just plain sucking lol beyond those 3 ships, dont try to fix what aint broke! edit: give the retribution some love. i friggin LOVE the ship but 1 mid slot kills it. also rockets should be more pwn in general, theyre fun. kthnx. CCP is not gonna replace the cap use bonus on lasers for Amarr. It provides a certain symmetry in racial ship bonuses that i do not see them altering (Minmatar get rof to compensate for projectile crap rof, gallente get tracking to compensate for hybrid tracking difficulty). However, they could either slightly increase the cap bonus to 12.5 or slightly reduce the cap use of lasers (wouldn't take much to help amarr and the cap use would still prevent other race ships from using lasers). EIther of thse in a small measure would be enough. Also, if any pulse tracking buff were to come it would be minor. CCP appears to see pulses getting the better range thean projectiles and blasters as the benefit granted to pulse lasers. If tachyons got anymore damage there would be whines from every quarter not amarr, and they would be somewhat justified. However, the Abaddon is already gimped by not having the cap use reduction bonus, and from my own experience it's easier to fit 8 1400s on a Mael than 7 tachs on a Baddon. The fix i could see here would be to give the baddon a little more pg.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.18 00:39:00 - [125] Originally by: Siddy Geddon needs that 5% rof changed to 7,5% rof bonus, and preferably 20% to cap reduction Abaddon needs Bigger drone bay and more armor HP. Megapulses needs more tracking, its ben issue since day 1. Maybe slight damage boost to tacyons, not worth using at the moment. That whuld fix it, yeah.
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.18 00:55:00 - [126] Amarr has some of the best ships in the game. You guys are stupid. /thread. _____________ Hai.
Noobryan Amarr Pakehaz.	Posted - 2008.08.18 01:24:00 - [127] Retribution: Agree. Although, it makes a good solo **** machine against other frigs (if they don't run away). Vengeance: Imo, the bonus should be changed from rockets to something else that isn't rockets. How about nos/neut range and amount bonus? I hate rockets on slow ships. Omen: I can fit an omen fine. 4x Quad beams and the usual fitting. Not forgetting its a Tier 2, Tech 1 cruiser. So if you load it up with Tech 2 gear, of course its going to have issues. Maller: Agree, give that bad boy a drone bay! Augoror: Amarr use cap as much as armour and think the bonus is justified. I actually forgot all about this ship lol. Curse: This ship was never dependent on nano's. Med tank, nossies and drones make a good all rounder. Pilgrim: Can cloak... hence the range differences. Sentinel: Cant comment. Prophecy: Cross race fittings 4tw. Mad tank with Projectiles... Crystals: That would be nice. Crystals have 0 change time and 0 cooldown once your target has gone pop. Anything else would be putting your expectations too high.
Jebba IV Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.18 15:01:00 - [128] maybe 2 mid slots to retribution, other than that.. most all the amarr ships rock quit your whine.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.18 15:11:00 - [129] Originally by: Ambien Torca You forgot prophecy which is rather pointless atm. Same can be said about Cyclone but that¦s not on topic. Brutix is really the only useful tier 1 battlecruiser. Prophecy, Cyclone, and Ferox are all rather weak. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Minyon Cross Roads Ouroboros Cross Combine	Posted - 2008.08.18 15:29:00 - [130] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Maller: -No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus. -Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay. Giving the maller a damage bonus would be pointless as it would have the same role as the omen but less damage as the rof bonus is better and the each have 5 guns. I would give it a range bonus 10% optimal range and keep its tanking bonus, this would make it like the moa (maybe not all that popular)but would give a new role for the amarr ships and be in line with the apoc.It would get about 100km range with beams, a bit less range than the moa but more damage,It could also use a bit more power.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.18 16:29:00 - [131] Hmmm, as far as boosting the Amarr, I don't think Matar nerfs are going far enough. They need to make lasers capless. And they should always hit. And all Amarr ships should have 125 mb drone bays. And they should all be pink. Then, they might be balanced.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.18 16:31:00 - [132] 250m3 at the least. Astro points to evemail box.
Lili Lu Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2008.08.18 16:32:00 - [133] Hmm, the pink thing, you might be onto something there. Afterall we have certain pink gallente ships, but we all know the geddon is bigger
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:13:00 - [134] Originally by: Minyon Giving the maller a damage bonus would be pointless as it would have the same role as the omen but less damage as the rof bonus is better and the each have 5 guns. I would give it a range bonus 10% optimal range and keep its tanking bonus, this would make it like the moa (maybe not all that popular)but would give a new role for the amarr ships and be in line with the apoc.It would get about 100km range with beams, a bit less range than the moa but more damage,It could also use a bit more power. I like this idea.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:27:00 - [135] Originally by: Cpt Branko Amarr need a nerf. Tripling the cap use on lasers and removing their dronebays would do the trick. Here is a complete idiot. 'Kay, the Omen does need more grid, but just a little. The Maller could use some more cap, but once again just a little and this while losing the cap usage bonus. Like a tiny version of the Abaddon. More importantly, really, the Retribution does need that fifth high slot made a mid one instead. And the Vengeance does need a damage bonus. It's an Assault ship, for cripes' sake. Rockets already suffer from range. Finally, the Pilgrim is kind of good as it is. All Recon ships should get another slot though, in the Pilgrim's case another high.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:18:00 - [136] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Siddy Geddon needs that 5% rof changed to 7,5% rof bonus, and preferably 20% to cap reduction Abaddon needs Bigger drone bay and more armor HP. Megapulses needs more tracking, its ben issue since day 1. Maybe slight damage boost to tacyons, not worth using at the moment. That whuld fix it, yeah.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:21:00 - [137] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 18/08/2008 20:22:25 And make 'em pink. Hot pink.
Nalena Arlath	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:25:00 - [138] Originally by: Noobryan Crystals: That would be nice. Crystals have 0 change time and 0 cooldown once your target has gone pop. Anything else would be putting your expectations too high. Crystals have cooldown after you pop something. Try using mega beams or mega pulses. After something goes pop the guns are still flashing until their cycle is done. I should know cause I love alphastriking and hate it when some of the guns are still cycling from the last kill.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:30:00 - [139] Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 18/08/2008 21:37:51 Damn buttons posting before i typed! Anyway ... The AFs are dreadful because all AF's are dreadful. Their problems are no worse than the other ones, and in fact the vengence is not too bad. The sentinal is only bad because we got the cruiser sized ones first, so they will always seem underwhelming, and because the hyenah is so much better than the other EAFs its silly. The t1 ships are meh, because almost every t1 ship is meh. The omen does alright damage for what it is, and theres not a lot else you'd ever bother asking it to do. The curse will be shaken up post-changes, but will still be nasty because of how effective tracking disruptors can be. It was always a niche ship anyway, compared to its other nano brothers. The ammarr have SO many fewer problems than they used to, and every race has ships that suck, so don't be too upset. I mean we have three very usable battleships, one bc that can really chew things up, the fastest (base) ceptors, two very solid hacs, the absolution is a beast... I mean seriously. The only place that the amarr are really very poor is in t1 frigs and cruisers, and come on, no-one gives a crap about those anyway.
Rockajam	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:34:00 - [140] /signed
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.19 01:49:00 - [141] Edited by: Yakov Draken on 19/08/2008 01:51:28 Obviously the OP's request for an Amarr buff is overshadowed by overall strength of Amarr ships right now. Considering the limited time developers seem to have for "improving" the game going back over Amarr after having just recently given it a thorough review/buff would seem a bit rich. I agree that useless ships suck and considering how long this game has been out it is truly amazing how bad a job has been done of making ships useful. Every race should be gone over time and again until the ships have a role but CCP just don't see it that way. Right now Amarr ships, on the whole, are good. If the same was true for Minmatar I wouldn't want the developers coming anywhere near us. Do you really want CCP messing with Amarr? Such a desire seems both brave and foolish given CCP's past record of balencing. Being a Minmatar pilot I, of course , have an Amarr combat pvp alt. Gotta love those Amarr ships! Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Actually no. Brutix can be used as rail platform and does very well as a blaster boat too. Nothing wrong with it at all. There's no real reason to use it over a Myrmidon for close range. Mainly because it's a blaster-boat made out of paper thanks to its grid. If you want to use a gank/ECM drone/ECM ship combo the Brutix is much better. While this is not to the taste of all I've known too many good Gallente pilots who loved this approach to write it off. The Brutix is also the ultimate in pure gank T1 (ie cheap) BC - you can go over 900dps on total gank fit excluding implants. Implants can take you up close to 1000dps. A less extreme version does 870 dps with 35k EHP. I know alot of people would never fly such a paper thin ship but the bottomline is - do not underestimate the power of gank. Killing people fast is a great form of defence if you are good at controling your engagements. I have fought in many, many, up close slug fest with Hail M fitted in my time in Eve. In a large percentage of the combats the key question has been how many of them we can kill before they dock up/de-aggro/flee or blob us. To me that makes the Brutix an appealing "balls to the wall" ship.
7shining7one7 Gallente Don Rico's Massive Rainbow Storage	Posted - 2008.08.19 02:38:00 - [142] this is a preemptive thread made by motivated trolls to avoid amarr getting nerfed due to them being very powerful atm. and ya'll are just buying right into it.
nakKEDK Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:15:00 - [143] don't get me wrong, but AMARR is the best race at the moment. End of discussion.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.19 07:28:00 - [144] Every race has its clunkers, but overall Amarr are quite good at the moment, if not the best..
Azbuga	Posted - 2008.08.19 08:23:00 - [145] ships have they roles - if someone understad he will stop whinning... maller - there is any other t1 cruiser who can catch ships on low sec gates and stay alive for very long time? not? for this purpose maller its great! retribution - 1 mid more.. yeach - but this ship its not designed to be uber pvn mobile but for doing damage and having great tank while doing this... any other AF can do more than 200 dps? vengeance... fit blasters on this ship and you will be happy pilgrim - any other force recon can kill solo bc? or fit plate 1600? sure fix it :D
Peter Powers Master Miners Intruders.	Posted - 2008.08.19 12:37:00 - [146] first of all, im flying amarr for over a year now, and over one year ago i said "leave our ships as they are, they are fine" we got a few nerfs and also a few boosts and are currently a pretty well balanced race. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Retribution: -Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid. i agree that the midslot layout is annyoing, however the retribution is a fine ship when used in gangs, so no need to "fix" it. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Vengeance: -Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons. i agree rockets with a bit more boom would be nice - for all races. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Omen: -Needs more powergrid. If you cant fit the lowest tier pulses and cant fit anything else after that you know the ship is broken. This ship needs fitting because its a very crummy ship right now. i got a omen with 5 t2(!) beams, microwarp drive and a lot of free grid. if you want to boost it add cpu. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Maller: -No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus. -Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay. the only t1 cruiser which can tank gates useless? roflmao. no need to make it better then other cruisers. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Augoror: -Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer? cause cap is for amarr ships more important? the augoror is the perfect ship to support high-dps ships or to support capitals. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Curse: -Will be useless after nano nerf. Without nano it has no tank. If you try to run your ew, wich is neuts + td, you dont have any cap for running tank. If you run a tank youre useless. CCP needs to give the curse the ability to inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods in mids and lows. Same goes for pilgrim. whine whine whine. how does a tank make it useless? hint: it doesnt, use nos and your tank will help to suck 'em dry. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Pilgrim: -Range issue still not fixed. All other recons have range bonus except pilgrim. This is obviously wrong. Also same problem as curse: Cant inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods. do what others do - fit cap mods. ever seen how much cap the damps of an arazu eat? Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Sentinel: -Same problem as curse. Cant inherently run its ew. Sure you can kill inties in it but a combat inty can do that too. This ship is weak. It also is the only ship class that doesnt get a hp boost compared to its t1 hull eventhough its a t2 ship. All EAS needs more armor and hull etc. so basically you want ew ships to be assault frigattes with additional ew bonus? the sentinel is a pretty nice ew frigatte, and with its 4 (!) drones its better then for example the gallentean, one - if you want to boost one, the gallentean one needs the most. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Prophecy: -Epic fail tier 1 bc. There is simply no reason at all to fly this ship. Yes harbinger can outtank it quite well and do twice the damage while doing that. -This ship needs bigger drone bay to be useful or get more dps by gun bonus or extra turret. The tank bonus + big drone bay can be an allright combo. One of the finest bc i did ever fly, tough tank, quite a punch on dps. if you compare the prohpecy to the harbinger you could compare the ferox to the drake aswell.. or the brutix to the myrm. and in all cases you will find that the tier2 ships have advantages over the tier1 ones. .. why make it better then other tier1 bc? Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Crystals: -There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use. love to see that for all ships, but i believe ccp said something about more lag.
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.19 13:24:00 - [147] CCP have already indicated the logic and rightness of Amarr balancing in their own previous dev blog of 2008.01.30, Amarr Oomph and Similar Words: Quote: These are the issues that we've identified with Amarr: Some ships could need lovin' Cap usage on Energy Weapons may be too high in some cases Fitting requirements on some Energy Weapons need adjusting Base EM resistances on armor are very high They arguably addressed both 1 and 4 on that list (though Omen is still pretty much a joke: add a turret, but no fitting, to a ship that already couldn't fit a standard loadout?!?). And there's been no word on the status of changing fitting for some energy weapons (much needed). Finally, most important of all, there's been no word on the cap usage of lasers and the utterly f'tarded cap usage "ship bonus" to Amarr vessels which, as so many have pointed out, is not a proper bonus at all - just a crutch to at least allow us to fire the weapons on our own ships. I do love the reverse psychology meme currently making it's way through the forums, though, that Amarr are now this 'uber' race. You'll find 95% of said claims are being made by Minnies, of course. Having us cap out if we active tank or fire our guns for more than 90 seconds is really helpful to their cause. The only thing changed in 2008 was the grossly unfair EM base armor amount. Nowhere near the monstrous change it's been made out to be, by the way, but it's funny how a change that merely brings Amarr into balance with the other damage types is absurdly portrayed as an OMGWTF boost. Besides, the armor (and shield) changes gave as big (or bigger) a stealth boost to the Minmatar! (Don't hear them complaining about that.)
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 13:39:00 - [148] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 13:43:50 (a) I have maximum cap skills. My Tempest with a T2 heavy cap booster cannot sustain a dual-rep tank in a 2x rep amount+1x rep speed setup. Did you complain about lacking cap for active tanking? (b) Cap out from firing? Fit a cap booster. Mega pilots do it all the time, and their blasters eat up roughly the same cap as lasers do on a geddon/etc. Yet you don't hear them whining about cap use. (c) If you complain about inability of active tanking in combination to ganking, allow me to laugh at you for failing to use buffer tanks like the 90% of the PvP battleship pilot population does. (d) With all the 'omg, cap use' and so on comments, a pulse BS still outdamages Minmatar battleships at any range. Being superior to another race at all ranges is what, balanced? With what? Originally by: Meridius Dex Besides, the armor (and shield) changes gave as big (or bigger) a stealth boost to the Minmatar! (Don't hear them complaining about that.) Because of what? EMP? 90% of Minmatar players would prefer having Fusion as their proper high damage ammo (while we have, in fact, none - we've got less base damage from EMP forcing us to use Hail for maximum DPS unlike other races which can use faction ammo), because a ammo doing less base damage then anything else while having a EM/Explosive/Kinetic damage split is uber
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.19 13:45:00 - [149] I won't reply to anyone q*eer enough to use an eye-rolling emoticon in their posts. Sorry, it's just my new forum policy.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:01:00 - [150] It is hard to get any reasonable input in this thread, people whine about the wrong things or just come with "stfu noob amarr = win" just because other races have seen some nerfs :P The main issue i see is the cap-use bonus that only serve to increase range on pulses and tracking on beams, but to a very slight degree, whould be nice with some other bonuses here and there. And maller\propecy needs some tweaks.

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