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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:12:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17
People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal.
I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦
Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet.
And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables.
You young punks need to learn some manners.
And get the hell off of my lawn!
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Kage Getsu
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:13:00 -
[32]
Totally not surprised that a company from a country with an official state church blows off something like that.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Yeah, I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever. A better response in my opinion would be ¦so what of it?¦
That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive.
So call me gay and I will say 'What about it?".
Say that because I am gay I am therefore stupid or inferior and that's a whole different issue.
That's the issue that Laura Vess is discussing. Not name-calling, just good old fashioned gay bashing.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Fink Angel on 27/08/2008 17:14:28
I could care as much what colour socks someone is wearing as to whether they are gay or not. (I think I might have stolen that from Bill Hicks).
And if I say something that inadvertently offends someone, and they politely let me know then I'll avoid causing offence in future. That's just called "being polite".
If I'm *trying* to be offensive to someone, I'll tailor it a bit more colourfully than "gay", which is a bit weedy in the abuse stakes anyhow.
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Kamikazi ONE
AWE Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 -
[35]
I would have thought that lesbians would be very welcomed by the general playerbase of Eve. At least if the generalisations of game players are correct, single, male, young, very few social skills and don't get out enough.
On the other hand 'thats gay' has been a common put down for a while now and it's not limited to Eve anyways.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:15:00 -
[36]
My response to that subject: On the internet, there is no such thing as gender. Dont mention your gender, dont care about another persons gender, dont talk about subjects relating to gender with people you dont know. The internet is a place where ignorance, arogence, racism, sexism, anti semite, ultra religous, ultra anti religous, and everything under the sun gets to say what they want to say behind a mask.
Your opening a can of worms by mentioning your a man/woman or your sexual orientation in this digital world and you best be able to stand the fire the moment someone in the above group catches wiff of what you said. In short, choose what information you give out carefully and guard the rest.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Neermark
JotunHeim Hird
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:17:00 -
[37]
Eris could you poke a dev to come with an answer on the much discussed Capital matter ? Thanks...
Yay For the new ALIGN BUTTON !!!! |
Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:17:00 -
[38]
this thread is sooo gay 
For real though, its just people looking into something too deeply. Its like when i say something is 'Sick' or 'nasty' on vent, my euro buds thing im dissing it, whereas over hear my buddies know that i'm talking good about it.
As George Carlin is famous for saying, "there are no bad words; Bad thoughts, Bad Meanings, but no bad words"
_
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal.
Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments.
In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now?
Naggers?
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Monkey Saturday
Knights of Chaos
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now?
Happens just as often as calling someone gay unfortunately. I don't like it or agree with it but lets face it, this game is on the internet. If you come to the internet thinking that it will be a polite place full of respectful people then I feel sorry for you, though i'm sure you are obviously aware of this.
My advice is this : If you feel people using homophobic slurs is offensive enough to ruin your game experience you should petition the people for harassment. Simple as that. That way, if nothing is done about it you have some actual ammunition to fire back at the GM's and customer service with.
Thanks for the Maulus BPO nerf! :D |
Unholy Preacher
Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Unholy Preacher on 27/08/2008 17:19:08
Well what you guys have to understand is that the majority never sees it the same as the minority. The active propagation of hate is obviously a hate crime but with passive propagation it is just as deadly. The comments she made in her internet post are relevant to the extent that this passive propagation of gender based slang does nothing to help the perception of the minority. Does this justify bad mouthing a game / gaming population, obviously not as the sample size in comparison to other mainstream mmos would rank higher.
Secondly her reference in second life with the specific group she refers to as her haven is also a miscontrued opinion. In that respect she is the majority within that group and that group creates what is the socially acceptable norms. If you were to place a blatantly hetereo sexual individual within that group within second life, you would get the same backlash to his behaviour. Again the idea is that everything is relative.
In the end, however, i think that while she does have a valid argument overall, the specific details do not justify her whine. As many people have said, she set herself up by trolling and everyone knows (especially COAD readers) NEVER FEED THE TROLLS. And that is your daily wisdom for the day, now back to our regular schedule programming about the speed nerf.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:19:00 -
[42]
Is it WRONG that whenever some girl says she's a lesbian/bisexual (even if I didn't care much about her before) I suddendly feel a little bit (more) attracted ?
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Hegotu Alecto
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:19:00 -
[43]
TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny.
Some people arn't as wise as some gay folk are who have learned the hard way, just ignore it, leave the group and get on with it. that and escort a nice ship full of good loot, kill it, loot it, and pod the guy. done that once or twice myself.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Neermark
Eris could you poke a dev to come with an answer on the much discussed Capital matter ? Thanks...
I think they're all reading it but no one dares to touch their mouse in the odd chance it might inadvertently click the "reply" button.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Phil Exon
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:20:00 -
[45]
If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round
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N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hegotu Alecto
TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny.
Some people arn't as wise as some gay folk are who have learned the hard way, just ignore it, leave the group and get on with it. that and escort a nice ship full of good loot, kill it, loot it, and pod the guy. done that once or twice myself.
Common sense?
Not on my internets!!!
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Bombs
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:22:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Bombs on 27/08/2008 17:23:09
Originally by: Phil Exon
If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round
Are you a dev alt account?
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:23:00 -
[48]
When you can't make comments, positive, negative, or downright derogatory about a group of people then that is discrimination. Hardly anyone ever complains about anything offensive to ginger people, or those with freckles, the overweight, the spotty, the nerdy, etc. No. You have to be a minority member with a superiority complex for it to matter.
How special do you have to think you are to believe that your minority group deserves special treatment and exception from the general laws of human nature?
They claim they want to be treated just like anyone else but as soon as you do it's "you can't do that I'm [insert minority group here]."
This message brought to you by someone who doesn't let the disabled push in line, the elderly take his seat, or the religious break laws regarding harassment.
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Danny Altenburg
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17
People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal.
I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦
Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet.
And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables.
If I may be so bold as to paraphrase, 'Eris doesn't just look like a cold, harsh lesbian. Eris *is* a cold, harsh lesbian'.
Not to mention wise, mature and perceptive, of course.
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Phil Exon
If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round
If you had a brain you might be dangerous. The word "Olympics" has been unmissable for the last month, yet you still can't manage to mash your chubby fingers into the keys in the right order, can you?
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What? Me Worry?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:26:00 -
[51]
Tried two times to formulate a proper response to this thread but it always ends up it misanthropy. It's pathetic from all sides. Gods, how I hate mankind....
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Ideas for: Mining
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Danny Altenburg
Not to mention wise, mature, of course.
Are you calling me old?
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Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Bish Ounen
Gallente
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever...
Two words: Grievance Mongers.
There are quite a few people here in the U.S. who make a tidy living out of grievance mongering. Either via stirring up grievances (as the article writer quoted in the OP is doing), by suing companies for supposed "hate speech" or "hate crimes", or by using the THREAT of lawsuits to essentially extort money from people and companies for the same reasons. It's basically become a cottage industry here in the States, and is supported almost entirely by a far leftist worldview that says "Anyone who dislikes me for any reason or in any way disagrees with my ideas is a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe/global warming denier/pick-your-far-leftist-issue-of-the-day-bad-person."
Essentially, it's a way of shutting down debate by painting any opposing opinion as extreme and unacceptable. It works for general speech too. There are many people who, while having nothing against any individual who happens to live the homosexual lifestyle, nevertheless have SERIOUS moral problems with said lifestyle. These people are NOT fringe wackos, they are normal, average, run of the mill folks who are being marginalized by people like the woman who wrote the article in question.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either side. What I am saying is that it shows a weakness in your argument when you have to resort to grievance mongering to get your point across, and far far too many people and groups have decided that grievance mongering is the best way to get their agenda accomplished.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Eomar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hegotu Alecto
TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny.
Exactly the attitude a lot of the planet needs to adopt.
Banter is also the way forward, if you cant take the **** out of yourself, then you have no right to be taking the **** out of anyone.
Slacker industries are another good example, given thier penchant for roleplaying heterosexuals, im not sure, never will be sure, and ultimately never will care who is or isnt gay/straight/both/other/sheep in that corp.
Happily VETO are just as non discriminating, except for the dolphin lovers. freaks.
...in accordance with the prophecy |
N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Originally by: Danny Altenburg
Not to mention wise, mature, of course.
Are you calling me old?
...
Woah, dude. Backtrack, backtrack... :P
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:30:00 -
[56]
Can be too much "its just internet trolling toughen up" pseudo machismo spoken on these topics. End of the day offensive statements are offensive and its only the medium of internet anonymity that allows people to act like ignorant reactionary thugs without censure or consequence that allows this kind of thing to be so prevalent. This is one of the darker influences that online communities can foster with people being subtly pressured into using negative language by peer pressure or simple meme-programming, I guess we've all found ourselves using "thats gay!" to describe a cheesy docking maneuver or "he really got ****d" to describe a one-sided killing and I suspect part of the reason we slip into these modes of speech is the environment around and lack of appropriate societal counterbalance as might appear at an ordinary night at the pub or whatever.
Eve at its worst is very much a laddish monoculture of euro-style virtual rugby meatheads combined with US frat-boy nonsense and the way these influences rise to predominance on the public forums only reinforces the persuasive impact. Its difficult for any individual to stand up and criticize without being called being "thin-skinned" "over-sensitive" "whiny-cry-babbies" for caring about how we actually should be interacting with each other.
In any case I can certainly say that I personally regret using this kind of language whenever I have done and I consider it a failure of personality strength/temper to have slipped into the common thuggish mode of discourse rather than setting better standards through quality speech and interaction.
Goes to show nobody is immune to the peer pressure (passive or active) of the environment and anybody can be swept up by the unseen manipulations of regressive memes and clique programming of the herd.
Ultimately more people should listen to Chumbawamba I think.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever...
Two words: Grievance Mongers.
Maybe they're just offended mate. I don't know how offensive I'd find it, as I'm not gay.
However if everyone else always *constantly* brought up being a white hetorosexual male as a term of abuse then I'd probably start to get a bit tired of it.
It's just plain rude. And lazy too.
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Kamikazi ONE
AWE Corporation
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:32:00 -
[58]
Why can she complain about the use of the word 'gay' and call it's use hate language, and yet feels happy to use the phrase 'redneck, hormonal teenager' in her article. Surely that is just as guilty of being offensive as everyone else.
On another thought, if I get an application from soneone who then comes out and say 'I'm gay' my response will be 'so?'. But if I get the impression they are going to have a hissy fit if the wrong word is said in chat I think I would also suggest they might want to go somewhere else.
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Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:34:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever...
Two words: Grievance Mongers.
Maybe they're just offended mate. I don't know how offensive I'd find it, as I'm not gay.
However if everyone else always *constantly* brought up being a white hetorosexual male as a term of abuse then I'd probably start to get a bit tired of it.
It's just plain rude. And lazy too.
No, but see, as a white hetero male, you are not allowed to be offended. Otherwise your offense is offensive. When white men get angry, its racist or sexist or whatever.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:35:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
When you can't make comments, positive, negative, or downright derogatory about a group of people then that is discrimination. Hardly anyone ever complains about anything offensive to ginger people, or those with freckles, the overweight, the spotty, the nerdy, etc.
"Hardly anyone ever complains" is not exactly the point though, is it? Try firing an employee because they have freckles and see how "OK" that turns out to be. Of course, nobody does that, but because you're gay, or black, etc... Yeah, that is still an everyday situation.
Asking not to be insulted and abused simply because of some random group you happen to fall into is not about "superiority".
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