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Article on Gay Hate Language in EVE

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Ratha Renoir	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Ratha Renoir on 27/08/2008 16:46:57 Interesting. http://www.lesbianation.com/article.cfm?section=2&id=20099 I find EVE to be a pretty accepting place myself.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:45:00 - [2] Is it work-safe? "I had a read of the General discussion section. Part of my empathy to my fellow man died."
Ratha Renoir	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:46:00 - [3] If the word "lesbian" isn't offensive in your workplace, it's work-safe. No nudie pics or whatever.
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:47:00 - [4] http://eveinfo.com/npcship/13589/eve-online-kaikka-peunato.html CALDARI STATE DISCRIMINATES nerf all lvl4 agents in highsec
Jekaterine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:48:00 - [5] Edited by: Jekaterine on 27/08/2008 16:48:34 Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Is it work-safe? Feh it got fixed. Was broken.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:48:00 - [6] This article is incredibly stupid, none of this is unique to Eve, or MMOs in any way. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Brigsby5987 Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:52:00 - [7] ******s tbh. __________________________________________ When Will I be able to post again ? 13 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes, 36 seconds

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:55:00 - [8] Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17 People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦ Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet. And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. Pink Dread has been hijacked

Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:56:00 - [9] Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 27/08/2008 16:57:20 Heh, its news that there are angst-filled and bigotted people in a playerbase of 300,000 people? Next you'll tell me that rain is wet. Sidenote - once heard over fleet voice channel someone talk about dragging black people behind their truck...Yikes.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:56:00 - [10] Originally by: An Anarchyyt none of this is unique to Eve, or MMOs in any way. Perhaps not, but it is particularly widespread and blatant here. That it happens elsewhere is nothing like justification for allowing it here.

Tao Han Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:57:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some point though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦ Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet. And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. Your heard it here first, remember that.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:57:00 - [12] I haven't noticed a lot of gay-bashing in EvE myself. There will always be people who disagree with the lifestyle, but the same goes for the other way around. Hell, being a heterosexual male white middle-class American non-Christian, I'm part of one of the most hated demographics of all time. Just the nature of the beast. If they can't convince themselves they are superior to you because of your sex, or your skintone, or your heritage, or your nationality, or your religion, or your schooling, or how much money you make, or how much you have ... why would they not be able to convince themselves that they are better than you because of your sexual preference? It's human nature for us to try to define ourselves in a way that highlights our own superiority. It's part of every national anthem, every church service, every race rally and political convention. Such is life, no? Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.27 16:58:00 - [13] Girls in EvE? Article must be a joke.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:00:00 - [14] This yutz doesn't get it. She wasn't picked on BECAUSE she is gay, she was picked on because she got OFFENDED over being called gay. Mistake one: don't fall for obvious trolling :l
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Ratha Renoir If the word "lesbian" isn't offensive in your workplace, it's work-safe. No nudie pics or whatever. Lies! Those arbitrators looked really suggestive! "I had a read of the General discussion section. Part of my empathy to my fellow man died."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:00:00 - [16] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 17:01:57 I fail to see how the article (or actually your problem) is EVE specific. If I would say on TS "hold on keys gotta give the keys to my Ford to my GF" and someone else on TS goes "LOL a ford, wtf man, get a BMW or something" then that would be the exact same sitation as yours. The fact that it has an emotional charge for you is not the other person's fault nor problem. From what I read in the article there was nothing (that I could see) that was actually discrimitory other than the above car brand situation. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:01:00 - [17] A lot of people just have to feel constantly victimized I suppose. I'm guessing it validates their self inflicted crappy existence.
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Reaver One on 27/08/2008 17:06:07 Oh man Eris...if there is one thread that you (and probably your company) should have left alone, it's this one. I may agree with your point (and I may not too), but damn...wouldn't have touched this one with a ten foot pole. PS: "ten foot pole" is not intended as a derogatory remark about genitals. PPS: "genitals" was probably insensitive to bring up in this thread, I hereby retract all mention of it. PPPS: "retract" was not in any way intended to reference an uncircumsized male member. PPPPS: hee hee hee...I said "member".

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu This yutz doesn't get it. She wasn't picked on BECAUSE she is gay, she was picked on because she got OFFENDED over being called gay. Mistake one: don't fall for obvious trolling :l Yeah, I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever. A better response in my opinion would be ¦so what of it?¦ If I get called a dyke I tell them to lock up their gf¦s before I come in and rescue the poor wenches. It¦s as big a deal as you make of it (imo) Pink Dread has been hijacked

Ratha Renoir	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:03:00 - [20] "Girls in EvE? Article must be a joke." lol I actually find people who say stuff like 'ur so gay' or 'omigod i pwnd u so hard' is a great way to add people to my 'obvious people to avoid and or gank as soon as possible' list cause he's obviously an asshat. I like nuking asshats. mmmmmm... asshats...

Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Reaver One Oh man Eris...if there is one thread that your (and probably your company) should have left alone, it's this one. I may agree with you point (and I may not too), but damn...wouldn't have touched this one with a ten foot pole. PS: "ten foot pole" is not intended as a derogatory remark about genitals. PPS: "genitals" was probably insensitive to bring up in this thread, I hereby retract all mention of it. PPPS: "retract" was not in any way intended to reference an uncircumsized male member. PPPPS: hee hee hee...I said "member". Watch it, I'm very sensitive to the word 'member', I have a small one you see. Wait let me write a blog on it. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:04:00 - [22] Oh look, a woman so "secure" in her lifestyle choices that she has to hit the internet to whineblog her ovaries out because someone dared to say she was gay. Surprise: she is. She admits that, even saying it was inadvertent of her at the time to make mention of it to her corp. That sounds like a person who's proud of the person she is, alright. I don't care if people are gay. People are who they are. Why does she care that others don't care she's gay? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:05:00 - [23] Read the article (pretty brief one), and while I agree in general with the tone and scope, I'd also have to say some of the author's reactions are probably just over-reactions. I mean, for instance, the "that's gay" remark... for some people, it has about as much gay-hate in it as an "oh my god" remark made by an atheist has religion in it... nearly none. It's a manner of speech for many people where the only negative conotation would be something akin to "that's not normal in a weird way". Not that I'd actually use it, but that's how I interpret it. Also, the (paraphrasing) "we don't need to know you're a freaking lesbian" remark... while crude and rude at the same time, that's akin to somebody saying "we don't need to know your girlfriend just arrived", "we don't need to know you burned the steak in the oven because of the gatecamp" or even "stop bragging about stuff". Also, you might want to take into account that some people might not ACTUALLY hate gay people at all, but you're giving them an easy-to-push button. It's like making fun of a player who admited he's fat, calling him piggie/fatso/whatever, even if maybe the one writing that is more obese than the target of the verbal assault. Smacktalk is afterall verbal PvP, and if you can tick your opponent off, get him off balance, that's in your advantage. Granted, it DOES feel weird when coming from a corpmate. My advice to the article's author ? Whenever you next feel bothered by what you think is an anti-gay remark, take a breath and think about it... is this person just trying to push my buttons, or is he genuinely anti-gay ? If it's the first one, you have completely other types of problems with that person. If you think there's no reason for "verbal PvP", you should probably confront them. Say something like "I hope you've just made a very bad joke or you're drunk, because what you just said implies you're a gay-hater, and I don't want to have anything to do with such people"... then wait for a reply. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Reaver One Oh man Eris...if there is one thread that your (and probably your company) should have left alone, it's this one. I may agree with you point (and I may not too), but damn...wouldn't have touched this one with a ten foot pole. PS: "ten foot pole" is not intended as a derogatory remark about genitals. PPS: "genitals" was probably insensitive to bring up in this thread, I hereby retract all mention of it. PPPS: "retract" was not in any way intended to reference an uncircumsized male member. PPPPS: hee hee hee...I said "member". People knowing me personally will get why I feel more than able to respond, and it does suck that gay is perceived as a negative something, and trying to change that is not easy. But I¦m not sure that this is the way to do it. If people describe something to me as ¦gay¦ I often ask ¦err ok..but why?¦ To get an argument instead of an opinion. Pink Dread has been hijacked

N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Girls in EvE? Article must be a joke. I'm probably going to offend someone: GIRL Gay In Real Life
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:07:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments. In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now?
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 17:01:57 I fail to see how the article (or actually your problem) is EVE specific. From reading the piece, it looks like it is only EvE specific in that the person is currently playing EvE and is talking about her experiences specifically here. Actually I found it to be a pretty good post. The author made it pretty clear that EvE is generally a good place about such issues and then talked about some exceptions and other sensitivities that, to put it bluntly, most people do not think about since they are not in a group that has such things leveled against them. And yeah, touch skin on the internet is a good thing, but it doesn't make the people doing this stuff any less jerks and it is well within someone's domain to blog about a game where the jerk ratio is relatively low but still has issues.
Eomar Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:12:00 - [28] tbh while the article isnt wrong in a sense, there is a lot of language and attitude in eve that could be considered, (when taken out of context and ignoring the actual intent of the statement) to be homophobic, im still infuriated by the whole article! not so much for its intent, but more for the whole 'im a lesbian gamer' 'being a lesbian gamer' 'lesbian gamer thathis that and the other' *****s Its posted on a lesbian site, exceedingly obvious then that the author is a lesbian. but no, she feels the urge to make sure the reader is well aware that she is a lesbian, yes a lesbian, are you sure you understand that A LESBIAN. I may be totally wrong here, but id be willing to go out on a limb and say that this particular person makes a point of telling people how gay she is given even the slightest provocation, and given the average mental age of the eve gamer that will only ever serve to inflame an issue, go into ANY chat channel, ask them to stop swearing, and then sit back and wait..... why would you possibly think being gay is gonna make people suddenly stop being *****s? Simply put, youre a gamer, your orientation, whatever it may be, is of little relevance to eve, certain things can and will be said in any channel, but unless theyre spcifically directed at you, the wisest course of action is simply to ignore them. Ultimately its only words, and almost never are they actually used with the intent of attacking homosexuals, theyre generally used by people who simply dont know better or dont think about what theyre saying (the same is often applicable to 'racism' something which is gradually dying out, and now, when certain things are said, theyre clearly and obviously abusive and generally considered to be unacceptable, i have no doubt that in time homophobia will go the same route.) ...in accordance with the prophecy
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:12:00 - [29] Quote: Peunato, an extremely competent pilot, was forced out of the Caldari Navy when he revealed he was gay. Since joining the Guristas, Peunato has been instrumental in expanding their power and influence. Threat level: Deadly So the venerable GAY pilot Emo'd and made aware his proclivities and got called on the carpet for it. He then decides to join a notoriously murderous and brutal criminal group in a complete overreaction. Um...whatever.
Bfoster White Wolves Syndicate THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:12:00 - [30] Originally by: An Anarchyyt This article is incredibly stupid, none of this is unique to Eve, or MMOs in any way. Agreed!! Whomever wrote it should try the free weekend on steam and play TF2 or Counter Strike Source.. They will have a heart attack reading the crap those kids say!! Personally I have only seen very little in local that was offensive to anyone.. _______________________________________________ My Sig has a spacer!

Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:12:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17 People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦ Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet. And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. You young punks need to learn some manners. And get the hell off of my lawn!
Kage Getsu Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:13:00 - [32] Totally not surprised that a company from a country with an official state church blows off something like that. _________________________________________________________
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Yeah, I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever. A better response in my opinion would be ¦so what of it?¦ That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive. So call me gay and I will say 'What about it?". Say that because I am gay I am therefore stupid or inferior and that's a whole different issue. That's the issue that Laura Vess is discussing. Not name-calling, just good old fashioned gay bashing.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 - [34] Edited by: Fink Angel on 27/08/2008 17:14:28 I could care as much what colour socks someone is wearing as to whether they are gay or not. (I think I might have stolen that from Bill Hicks). And if I say something that inadvertently offends someone, and they politely let me know then I'll avoid causing offence in future. That's just called "being polite". If I'm trying to be offensive to someone, I'll tailor it a bit more colourfully than "gay", which is a bit weedy in the abuse stakes anyhow.
Kamikazi ONE AWE Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:14:00 - [35] I would have thought that lesbians would be very welcomed by the general playerbase of Eve. At least if the generalisations of game players are correct, single, male, young, very few social skills and don't get out enough. On the other hand 'thats gay' has been a common put down for a while now and it's not limited to Eve anyways.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:15:00 - [36] My response to that subject: On the internet, there is no such thing as gender. Dont mention your gender, dont care about another persons gender, dont talk about subjects relating to gender with people you dont know. The internet is a place where ignorance, arogence, racism, sexism, anti semite, ultra religous, ultra anti religous, and everything under the sun gets to say what they want to say behind a mask. Your opening a can of worms by mentioning your a man/woman or your sexual orientation in this digital world and you best be able to stand the fire the moment someone in the above group catches wiff of what you said. In short, choose what information you give out carefully and guard the rest. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Neermark JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:17:00 - [37] Eris could you poke a dev to come with an answer on the much discussed Capital matter ? Thanks... Yay For the new ALIGN BUTTON !!!!
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:17:00 - [38] this thread is sooo gay For real though, its just people looking into something too deeply. Its like when i say something is 'Sick' or 'nasty' on vent, my euro buds thing im dissing it, whereas over hear my buddies know that i'm talking good about it. As George Carlin is famous for saying, "there are no bad words; Bad thoughts, Bad Meanings, but no bad words" _
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 - [39] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments. In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now? Naggers?
Monkey Saturday Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Catherine Frasier In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now? Happens just as often as calling someone gay unfortunately. I don't like it or agree with it but lets face it, this game is on the internet. If you come to the internet thinking that it will be a polite place full of respectful people then I feel sorry for you, though i'm sure you are obviously aware of this. My advice is this : If you feel people using homophobic slurs is offensive enough to ruin your game experience you should petition the people for harassment. Simple as that. That way, if nothing is done about it you have some actual ammunition to fire back at the GM's and customer service with. Thanks for the Maulus BPO nerf! :D

Unholy Preacher Trade Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:18:00 - [41] Edited by: Unholy Preacher on 27/08/2008 17:19:08 Well what you guys have to understand is that the majority never sees it the same as the minority. The active propagation of hate is obviously a hate crime but with passive propagation it is just as deadly. The comments she made in her internet post are relevant to the extent that this passive propagation of gender based slang does nothing to help the perception of the minority. Does this justify bad mouthing a game / gaming population, obviously not as the sample size in comparison to other mainstream mmos would rank higher. Secondly her reference in second life with the specific group she refers to as her haven is also a miscontrued opinion. In that respect she is the majority within that group and that group creates what is the socially acceptable norms. If you were to place a blatantly hetereo sexual individual within that group within second life, you would get the same backlash to his behaviour. Again the idea is that everything is relative. In the end, however, i think that while she does have a valid argument overall, the specific details do not justify her whine. As many people have said, she set herself up by trolling and everyone knows (especially COAD readers) NEVER FEED THE TROLLS. And that is your daily wisdom for the day, now back to our regular schedule programming about the speed nerf.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:19:00 - [42] Is it WRONG that whenever some girl says she's a lesbian/bisexual (even if I didn't care much about her before) I suddendly feel a little bit (more) attracted ? _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Hegotu Alecto Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:19:00 - [43] TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny. Some people arn't as wise as some gay folk are who have learned the hard way, just ignore it, leave the group and get on with it. that and escort a nice ship full of good loot, kill it, loot it, and pod the guy. done that once or twice myself. -------------------------------
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Neermark Eris could you poke a dev to come with an answer on the much discussed Capital matter ? Thanks... I think they're all reading it but no one dares to touch their mouse in the odd chance it might inadvertently click the "reply" button. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Phil Exon	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:20:00 - [45] If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Hegotu Alecto TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny. Some people arn't as wise as some gay folk are who have learned the hard way, just ignore it, leave the group and get on with it. that and escort a nice ship full of good loot, kill it, loot it, and pod the guy. done that once or twice myself. Common sense? Not on my internets!!!
Bombs	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:22:00 - [47] Edited by: Bombs on 27/08/2008 17:23:09 Originally by: Phil Exon If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round Are you a dev alt account?
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:23:00 - [48] When you can't make comments, positive, negative, or downright derogatory about a group of people then that is discrimination. Hardly anyone ever complains about anything offensive to ginger people, or those with freckles, the overweight, the spotty, the nerdy, etc. No. You have to be a minority member with a superiority complex for it to matter. How special do you have to think you are to believe that your minority group deserves special treatment and exception from the general laws of human nature? They claim they want to be treated just like anyone else but as soon as you do it's "you can't do that I'm [insert minority group here]." This message brought to you by someone who doesn't let the disabled push in line, the elderly take his seat, or the religious break laws regarding harassment.
Danny Altenburg	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:25:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17 People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦ Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet. And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. If I may be so bold as to paraphrase, 'Eris doesn't just look like a cold, harsh lesbian. Eris is a cold, harsh lesbian'. Not to mention wise, mature and perceptive, of course.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Phil Exon If they had g@y-bashing olimpics I'd make it to the medal round If you had a brain you might be dangerous. The word "Olympics" has been unmissable for the last month, yet you still can't manage to mash your chubby fingers into the keys in the right order, can you? -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------

Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:26:00 - [51] Tried two times to formulate a proper response to this thread but it always ends up it misanthropy. It's pathetic from all sides. Gods, how I hate mankind.... -------- Ideas for: Mining

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Danny Altenburg Not to mention wise, mature, of course. Are you calling me old? ... Pink Dread has been hijacked

Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:27:00 - [53] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia ...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever... Two words: Grievance Mongers. There are quite a few people here in the U.S. who make a tidy living out of grievance mongering. Either via stirring up grievances (as the article writer quoted in the OP is doing), by suing companies for supposed "hate speech" or "hate crimes", or by using the THREAT of lawsuits to essentially extort money from people and companies for the same reasons. It's basically become a cottage industry here in the States, and is supported almost entirely by a far leftist worldview that says "Anyone who dislikes me for any reason or in any way disagrees with my ideas is a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe/global warming denier/pick-your-far-leftist-issue-of-the-day-bad-person." Essentially, it's a way of shutting down debate by painting any opposing opinion as extreme and unacceptable. It works for general speech too. There are many people who, while having nothing against any individual who happens to live the homosexual lifestyle, nevertheless have SERIOUS moral problems with said lifestyle. These people are NOT fringe wackos, they are normal, average, run of the mill folks who are being marginalized by people like the woman who wrote the article in question. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with either side. What I am saying is that it shows a weakness in your argument when you have to resort to grievance mongering to get your point across, and far far too many people and groups have decided that grievance mongering is the best way to get their agenda accomplished. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Eomar Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Hegotu Alecto TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny. Exactly the attitude a lot of the planet needs to adopt. Banter is also the way forward, if you cant take the ** out of yourself, then you have no right to be taking the ** out of anyone. Slacker industries are another good example, given thier penchant for roleplaying heterosexuals, im not sure, never will be sure, and ultimately never will care who is or isnt gay/straight/both/other/sheep in that corp. Happily VETO are just as non discriminating, except for the dolphin lovers. freaks. ...in accordance with the prophecy
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:30:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Originally by: Danny Altenburg Not to mention wise, mature, of course. Are you calling me old? ... Woah, dude. Backtrack, backtrack... :P
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:30:00 - [56] Can be too much "its just internet trolling toughen up" pseudo machismo spoken on these topics. End of the day offensive statements are offensive and its only the medium of internet anonymity that allows people to act like ignorant reactionary thugs without censure or consequence that allows this kind of thing to be so prevalent. This is one of the darker influences that online communities can foster with people being subtly pressured into using negative language by peer pressure or simple meme-programming, I guess we've all found ourselves using "thats gay!" to describe a cheesy docking maneuver or "he really got ****d" to describe a one-sided killing and I suspect part of the reason we slip into these modes of speech is the environment around and lack of appropriate societal counterbalance as might appear at an ordinary night at the pub or whatever. Eve at its worst is very much a laddish monoculture of euro-style virtual rugby meatheads combined with US frat-boy nonsense and the way these influences rise to predominance on the public forums only reinforces the persuasive impact. Its difficult for any individual to stand up and criticize without being called being "thin-skinned" "over-sensitive" "whiny-cry-babbies" for caring about how we actually should be interacting with each other. In any case I can certainly say that I personally regret using this kind of language whenever I have done and I consider it a failure of personality strength/temper to have slipped into the common thuggish mode of discourse rather than setting better standards through quality speech and interaction. Goes to show nobody is immune to the peer pressure (passive or active) of the environment and anybody can be swept up by the unseen manipulations of regressive memes and clique programming of the herd. Ultimately more people should listen to Chumbawamba I think. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia ...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever... Two words: Grievance Mongers. Maybe they're just offended mate. I don't know how offensive I'd find it, as I'm not gay. However if everyone else always constantly brought up being a white hetorosexual male as a term of abuse then I'd probably start to get a bit tired of it. It's just plain rude. And lazy too.
Kamikazi ONE AWE Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:32:00 - [58] Why can she complain about the use of the word 'gay' and call it's use hate language, and yet feels happy to use the phrase 'redneck, hormonal teenager' in her article. Surely that is just as guilty of being offensive as everyone else. On another thought, if I get an application from soneone who then comes out and say 'I'm gay' my response will be 'so?'. But if I get the impression they are going to have a hissy fit if the wrong word is said in chat I think I would also suggest they might want to go somewhere else.
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Bish Ounen Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia ...I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever... Two words: Grievance Mongers. Maybe they're just offended mate. I don't know how offensive I'd find it, as I'm not gay. However if everyone else always constantly brought up being a white hetorosexual male as a term of abuse then I'd probably start to get a bit tired of it. It's just plain rude. And lazy too. No, but see, as a white hetero male, you are not allowed to be offended. Otherwise your offense is offensive. When white men get angry, its racist or sexist or whatever.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf When you can't make comments, positive, negative, or downright derogatory about a group of people then that is discrimination. Hardly anyone ever complains about anything offensive to ginger people, or those with freckles, the overweight, the spotty, the nerdy, etc. "Hardly anyone ever complains" is not exactly the point though, is it? Try firing an employee because they have freckles and see how "OK" that turns out to be. Of course, nobody does that, but because you're gay, or black, etc... Yeah, that is still an everyday situation. Asking not to be insulted and abused simply because of some random group you happen to fall into is not about "superiority".

BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:35:00 - [61] Originally by: Ratha Renoir Edited by: Ratha Renoir on 27/08/2008 16:46:57 Interesting. http://www.lesbianation.com/article.cfm?section=2&id=20099 I find EVE to be a pretty accepting place myself. all im hearing is.. EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE the word "gay" omg shoot me now! EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE EMO RAGE If you get offended by the word gay then the world will not be a very nice place for you.. Especially if some1 is just saying it as slang and in no dleiberately derrogitive way. Seriously some ppl just need to harden the **** up! disclaimer: i am not homophobic, just trolling poudly annoying fc's since 2007 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w ding ding! Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners...goes back to reading
TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:35:00 - [62] Originally by: An Anarchyyt This article is incredibly stupid, none of this is unique to Eve, or MMOs in any way. Indeed. Originally by: Jade Constantine Eve at its worst is very much a laddish monoculture of euro-style virtual rugby meatheads combined with US frat-boy nonsense and the way these influences rise to predominance on the public forums only reinforces the persuasive impact. Its difficult for any individual to stand up and criticize without being called being "thin-skinned" "over-sensitive" "whiny-cry-babbies" for caring about how we actually should be interacting with each other. In any case I can certainly say that I personally regret using this kind of language whenever I have done and I consider it a failure of personality strength/temper to have slipped into the common thuggish mode of discourse rather than setting better standards through quality speech and interaction. Meh... religious people get used to it, why not homosexuals? Or anyone for that matter. There will always be *******s, its best to ignore them. Or in Eve just shoot them in the face.
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:36:00 - [63] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments. In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now? I actually call my mates from the cold Scandinavia snowniggrs, I am too a snowniggr because I too come from the cold Scandinavia. Something I am, by the way, reminded of by my fine British ginger sheeploving friends. Oh, and I hate Gallente with a passion because they are such drone **gts and come from the character creation with a makeup box. And darling, I'd change that makeup if I were you, you got a cross hair painted all over your face, almost as if you want to get shot between the eyes.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:38:00 - [64] OH NOES! PEOPLE TALKING ON THE INTERNET THE WAY THEY TALK IN REAL LIFE! HAX!!! GET THE BANZONRZ STICK!!!!!11111elevntyone Seriously though, I don't know many people that get through a sentence or two without slipping in a swear word or two, even those that are very innapropriate. I remember Kevin Smith saying more or less they same thing when he was justifying why his new movie shouldn't get a NC-17 rating in the US, I'm not saying that everyone or even most people are like that, but its naive to think that a large majority of the population, when speaking in private (or semi-private, but not public which is governed but sepereate social conventions), is going to alter their speach habits to not offend people in a video game that they deal with anonymously. For example, if someone screams in a chat channel they're a <insert name of WWII German political party of some renown> and death to all Jews/blacks/gays/etc, thats fine, but I reserve the right to say back at them that they should be dragged out into the street, have their genitals cut off, and be left to bleed to death. Neither concept is appetizing or pleasant but we are all entitled to our opinions whether they are right, wrong, naive, intelligent, just, or unjust. Telling people not to express their views in ernest is 10 times more offensive to me. TL;DR = Free Speach is always a good thing, Censorship is always a bad thing P.S. I have nothing against gay/lesbian people (in fact I consider myself a male lesbian ) PPS. theirs a certain irony to posting this on this particular forum given the amount of PC modding that goes on..... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Caedicus Minmatar Kellogg's Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:41:00 - [65] TBH, I've used the phrase "That's gay" to refer to something that's stupid and lame. I try to use it less since I'm adult and it's unprofessional to use such language, and I have gay friends, but sometimes it still slips when I'm playing games. I really don't mean it to offend anyone, but if I hang around people that use a certain set a phrases, it sometimes inadvertently becomes a part of my vocabulary. I can somewhat understand why people think it's offensive because I think if everyone said "That's American" or "Using alts to spy is such an American Tactic" to describe things that are sucky, it might get on my nerves as an American. But at the same time, people who are offended have to realize that most of the time, people aren't trying to hurt anyone when they say such phrases, it's just part of the language they use. Evolution in Eve:

CCP Eris Discordia	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:42:00 - [66] Originally by: Jade Constantine Can be too much "its just internet trolling toughen up" pseudo machismo spoken on these topics. End of the day offensive statements are offensive and its only the medium of internet anonymity that allows people to act like ignorant reactionary thugs without censure or consequence that allows this kind of thing to be so prevalent. I agree, in the end it¦s not nice. But you can either take everything said as a personal affront and maybe react in a way that feeds it and continues it (because drama is funny and or amusing), or you can give other responses. I don¦t agree that this only happens on the internet, I hear often enough ¦that¦s just gay¦ as an argument against something. Way I deal with it is by saying ¦it¦s gay¦ is not an argument and I¦d like to hear why you would think it is apparantly bad ( or maybe it¦s gay means it is happy again?) Regarding over sensitivity, you can be over sensitive. For instance people do use ** to describe things that have very little to do with the fact. If you get upset everytime someones mentions *, you are oversensitive and you might want to look into why. I would agree tat this has been generalised by everyone and applied to everything. If you just ask someone in person if they can stop doing this you can already be labelled as oversensitive as well. I¦m still hoping the entire ¦it¦s gay¦ as a replacement for ¦bad, stupid¦ will blow over and a new meme will come into existence. That¦s so lolcat maybe? Pink Dread has been hijacked*

Laerise Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:45:00 - [67] Stop backpaddling Eris, Jade has no right whatsoever to make a point against blunt and offensive statements on the internet being an offender himself.
Eomar Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:46:00 - [68] Originally by: Jade Constantine Can be too much "its just internet trolling toughen up" pseudo machismo spoken on these topics. End of the day offensive statements are offensive. Where do you draw the line? ultimately there is always going to be someone out there who can claim to be 'offended' by something thats said or done, even the mere existance of the game is 'offensive' to some types So yeah, basically even when it IS just internet trolling, or indeed the whole laziness/ignorance/plain stupidity side of things and at the end of the day, it means very very little in the grand scheme of things. Im convinced that a lot of peoples offended nature is simply down to being told or brainwashed in believing that they're offended. People need to take a step back and ask themselves whether it really makes any difference to them whatsoever. When, and in almost every case its when, they realise that nothing thats said will ever have any bearing on how they live thier lives, then theyll realise that getting offended achieves little. It really is a case of 'sticks and stones....' There is always room for change, both in attitude and action, and that change will come, but the there are better ways of going encouraging that change, and going head to head with people who dont understand WHY what theyre saying is unacceptable is only going to make life difficult. I too have stopped using such derogatory terms, because I choose to, because its a matter of respect for other peoples lifestyle choice, even if its one that I will never be able to get my head round. ...in accordance with the prophecy
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:48:00 - [69] Originally by: Laerise Stop backpaddling Eris, Jade has no right whatsoever to make a point against blunt and offensive statements on the internet being an offender himself. Yeah jade! Who the hell made you a voice for fairness and reason? Oh right...
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:49:00 - [70] Edited by: Turin on 27/08/2008 17:50:30 Homosexuality is a weird thing in general for most heterosexual men. It is human nature to attack something we cannot understand. And the bottom line is this. Most hetero men cannot, and will NEVER EVER understand why someone can prefer other men. We simply arent hardwired for it. So, instead we jest, make fun of, or attack it. Most guys, myself included, will make some comment "OMG thats so gay!" We are NOT doing it as a hate comment. Its just something that is a product of growing up among other mostly hetrosexual children. Children are MEAN! And this sterotype attitude develops at an early age. So we perpetuate them as we get older. I have worked pretty hard to supress my anti gayness. Its not always easy. I sometimes say things that are insensitive. I actually physically cringe when I see 2 men kissing each other. And tha happens a lot since I live in a part of chicago that many many MANY gay people live in. But at the end of the day, I am glad they found what makes them happy. I admit to being slightly homophobic. I wish gay people every happiness in what they do, have, and want. But as a hetro man, I still have a hard time dealing with the image of two men kissing. On the flip side of that, and this is what I find ammusing. Put 2 lesbians in the mix, and most guys fantasies go nuts! Bill hicks put it best 2 men kissing is evil 2 women kissing is awesome. Yet another stereotype among hetro men, but... well... there it is. And its not likely to change any time soon. Its simply human nature. Most people who react to these types of statements, do so out of a choice to make a point. They are well aware of the social stigmas attached ( if unfairly ) to the gay lifestyle. They choose to make a point of it, and be offended every time someone says something.

Dismus Gallente Universal Star Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:54:00 - [71] Wouldn't it stand to reason that occurrences of the misuse of words denoting a particular sexual orientation only seem to be more prevalent in EVE because we have the largest concurrently active player base out of any MMO in existence? When you have up to 35,000 users logged in simultaneously, and you're looking at these instances as a mere number of occurrences, instead of percentage-wise, it definitely appears to happen more in EVE than other games. Really, though, beyond this, is it not enough to laugh at the fact that these people are using words in the entirely wrong connotation? It's like saying, "That ship is so desk chair." Or "stop being so paper shredder." I'd personally take more offense to people not having a firm grasp on the English language, not for attempting to insult my sexual orientation. I am gay, and I have never once taken offense to this kind of crap. By and large, itÆs children who use this kind of language. That has been my experience, anyways. Originally by: Draeca Domi isn't ugly, it actually looks quite symphatic. I mean, a crossbreed of a whale and a potato.. Now how cute is that?
Ryysa Paisti Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:55:00 - [72] Edited by: Ryysa on 27/08/2008 17:56:09 This thread is gay. Sorry, I went there. (P.S. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay). EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Grarr Dexx Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:58:00 - [73] Ghetto forming, no longer limited to ethnicity but now also to sexual bias
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:59:00 - [74] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 27/08/2008 17:56:09 This thread is gay. Sorry, I went there. (P.S. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay). I'm going past there. Homosexuals are gay.
Callib Gor'Karrithe Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:06:00 - [75] Edited by: Callib Gor''Karrithe on 27/08/2008 18:08:18 ....just nevermind. I'm not getting tied up in this crap.
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:09:00 - [76] Originally by: Catherine Frasier That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive. Surely you understand why, to someone who is joyous and merry, that the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "homosexual" is pretty damned offensive! MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:11:00 - [77] this is actully true, me myself I have nothing agsint people that aren't straight, i even have RL friends that are gay and bi. I once typed in chat "that's so gay", Not meaning to be offensive towards people that are gay jsut more of a speech term. And the chat went balls on me lol. From after that haven't said that phrase evr again, and yes this is chat in EVE.
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:14:00 - [78] Being black is a weird thing in general for most caucasian men. It is human nature to attack something we cannot understand. And the bottom line is this. Most white people cannot, and will NEVER EVER understand why someone can prefer black people. We simply arent hardwired for it. So, instead we jest, make fun of, or attack it. Most whites, myself included, will make some comment "OMG thats so black!" We are NOT doing it as a hate comment. Its just something that is a product of growing up among other mostly white children. Children are MEAN! And this sterotype attitude develops at an early age. So we perpetuate them as we get older. I have worked pretty hard to supress my anti blackness. Its not always easy. I sometimes say things that are insensitive. I actually physically cringe when I see 2 black people kissing each other. And tha happens a lot since I live in a part of chicago that many many MANY black people live in. But at the end of the day, I am glad they found what makes them happy. I admit to being slightly racist. I wish black people every happiness in what they do, have, and want. But as a white man, I still have a hard time dealing with the image of two black people kissing. On the flip side of that, and this is what I find ammusing. Put 2 asians in the mix, and most guys fantasies go nuts! Bill hicks put it best 2 black people kissing is evil 2 asians kissing is awesome. Yet another stereotype among white people, but... well... there it is. And its not likely to change any time soon. Its simply human nature. Most people who react to these types of statements, do so out of a choice to make a point. They are well aware of the social stigmas attached ( if unfairly ) to the black lifestyle. They choose to make a point of it, and be offended every time someone says something. Hey Turin...that sure looks...different...that way, doesn't it?
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:16:00 - [79] I found this BBC article very interesting.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:17:00 - [80] Originally by: N1fty Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 27/08/2008 17:56:09 This thread is gay. Sorry, I went there. (P.S. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay). I'm going past there. Homosexuals are gay. From that article: Quote: Why is my neighbor's wife so gay? --Chaucer. AHA! It's all CHAUCER'S FAULT! He's the one that started it! Damn thee foul varlet Chaucer! Damn thee to Hades!

Carnal Nerve	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:20:00 - [81] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu This yutz doesn't get it. She wasn't picked on BECAUSE she is gay, she was picked on because she got OFFENDED over being called gay. Mistake one: don't fall for obvious trolling :l Yeah, I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever. A better response in my opinion would be ¦so what of it?¦ If I get called a dyke I tell them to lock up their gf¦s before I come in and rescue the poor wenches. It¦s as big a deal as you make of it (imo) QFT, words only have as much power over you as you let them have. And, "I tell them to lock up their gf's before I come in and rescue the poor wenches", ROFL. I love it!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:22:00 - [82] Trolling is trolling. I've been called plenty of nasty stuff in my time; we all have. You just ignore it, and maybe think of a witty retort. Letting it touch a nerve is just bad. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:23:00 - [83] Originally by: Reaver One Being black is a weird thing in general for most caucasian men. It is human nature to attack something we cannot understand. And the bottom line is this. Most white people cannot, and will NEVER EVER understand why someone can prefer black people. We simply arent hardwired for it. So, instead we jest, make fun of, or attack it. Most whites, myself included, will make some comment "OMG thats so black!" We are NOT doing it as a hate comment. Its just something that is a product of growing up among other mostly white children. Children are MEAN! And this sterotype attitude develops at an early age. So we perpetuate them as we get older. I have worked pretty hard to supress my anti blackness. Its not always easy. I sometimes say things that are insensitive. I actually physically cringe when I see 2 black people kissing each other. And tha happens a lot since I live in a part of chicago that many many MANY black people live in. But at the end of the day, I am glad they found what makes them happy. I admit to being slightly racist. I wish black people every happiness in what they do, have, and want. But as a white man, I still have a hard time dealing with the image of two black people kissing. On the flip side of that, and this is what I find ammusing. Put 2 asians in the mix, and most guys fantasies go nuts! Bill hicks put it best 2 black people kissing is evil 2 asians kissing is awesome. Yet another stereotype among white people, but... well... there it is. And its not likely to change any time soon. Its simply human nature. Most people who react to these types of statements, do so out of a choice to make a point. They are well aware of the social stigmas attached ( if unfairly ) to the black lifestyle. They choose to make a point of it, and be offended every time someone says something. Hey Turin...that sure looks...different...that way, doesn't it? Gee your really clever. I would have never thought someone could be this clever. Give yourself a gold star. I never said it was right. I just said it is human nature. And I was just being honest about my own feelings. I cannot help the way I feel. I cannot help that I dont like to see 2 men kissing. What do you want me to do about it? Fake it? I only mentioned it in the context of this thread because it is relevent. Not just to mention it. Just because I have un-easiness about it, doesnt mean I get in their face and be like "OMG YOU GAY ***! I HATE YOU!!!!" No. I stated. I wish them every happiness together. But it makes me feel the way it makes me feel and I cant help that. If most people could be so honest about their misgivings about things up front the world would be a much simpler place. Go troll somewhere else.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:27:00 - [84] Originally by: Turin ...Go troll somewhere else. Well, most of his post may have been a Troll, but at least ONE part was accurate: Quote: 2 asians kissing is awesome. But only if they are two asian women. YOWZA! rimshot Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:35:00 - [85] Didn't mean to pick on you Turin, but I really wanted to call attention to the fact that so many people seem to feel completely comfortable being "slightly anti-gay". I know that when I have a racist reaction to someone or something, I identify that thing in myself immediately, and really try to figure out where it came from and what I can do to change it. I don't think people do that when they get that same feeling about gay people, and that should be looked at...hard. I'm guilty of it myself on occasion too, but that just don't make it right.
Benco97 Gallente The Star League	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:35:00 - [86] To be honest I feel that EVE is a pretty welcoming place for Homosexuals, nobody has ever given me any grief over it and if you join some of the in-game Gay channels you'll be surprised at some of the well known names in there, I know I was. The person who wrote the article was just being an over-sensitive moron. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:39:00 - [87] Originally by: Reaver One Didn't mean to pick on you Turin, but I really wanted to call attention to the fact that so many people seem to feel completely comfortable being "slightly anti-gay". I know that when I have a racist reaction to someone or something, I identify that thing in myself immediately, and really try to figure out where it came from and what I can do to change it. I don't think people do that when they get that same feeling about gay people, and that should be looked at...hard. I'm guilty of it myself on occasion too, but that just don't make it right. I understand, and I have made this own effort in myself. The best I have managed to get to is simply this. If they found something that makes them happy, then I am happy for them. I dont feel they should stop doing what they are doing for MY comfort. But I cannot help that it makes me feel.... i dunno... gross somehow. You are right though. There is more social acceptance for anti gay vrs racism.
Phil Exon	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:40:00 - [88] yawn...nobody cares...'xept for a few self-declared agents of righteousness
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:41:00 - [89] Originally by: Laerise Stop backpaddling Eris, Jade has no right whatsoever to make a point against blunt and offensive statements on the internet being an offender himself. I think you are mixing my character calling yours an "inbred slave-owning waste-of-skin" with out of character offense Laerise. But sure, in the wider sense I've sometimes lost my temper and sworn at people in private channels that true. But who doesn't? My point was that we need to work at not being influenced by pervasive negative stereotyping from the worst aspects of the community. Takes effort to avoid slipping into the lowest common denominator of verbal interaction - but its effort thats worth committing too. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Lyvv Amarr Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:01:00 - [90] Originally by: Angry Lesbian Then I start ranting and calling people æbreedersÆ and ædamned heterosexualsÆ until I wise up and log off for a while to cool down. LoL didnt know that "breeders" was an insult?! Wonder how she thought she came onto this earth. ****ing tube-babies for the win.

Hegotu Alecto Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:09:00 - [91] "Breeders" is a Slur used by the gays, the terminology is quite simple, it means that Heterosexuals are like rabbits, constantly breeding, supply and demand etc and all that tripe -------------------------------
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:26:00 - [92] Originally by: Hegotu Alecto "Breeders" is a Slur used by the gays, the terminology is quite simple, it means that Heterosexuals are like rabbits, constantly breeding, supply and demand etc and all that tripe Lol, bless 'em. I quite like it actually. ------ Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
Sikel QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:32:00 - [93] oh people take themselves too seriously.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:37:00 - [94] this thread is incredibly ghey i feel my fragile little mind has been ****d by its blatent homosexuality already
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:43:00 - [95] Edited by: Kaeten on 27/08/2008 19:43:33 Originally by: Hegotu Alecto TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny. WHY do i get Dianabolic's name into my head lolxD, give him a hug from me will ya.. and maybe something more. ________________________ I'M POOR
Amira Silvermist The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:43:00 - [96] Originally by: Hegotu Alecto "Breeders" is a Slur used by the gays, the terminology is quite simple, it means that Heterosexuals are like rabbits, constantly breeding, supply and demand etc and all that tripe Breeding RoXXors! ----------------------------------------------------------------------
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:49:00 - [97] Originally by: Amira Silvermist Breeding RoXXors! No, no, no. The practicing to become a breeder "roxx". The breeding itself, not so much... MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:51:00 - [98] Originally by: Turin Most guys, myself included, will make some comment "OMG thats so gay!" We are NOT doing it as a hate comment. Its just something that is a product of growing up among other mostly hetrosexual children. Children are MEAN! And this sterotype attitude develops at an early age. So we perpetuate them as we get older. Going one step further.. the 'OMG thats so gay!' stuff is actually a healthy progression in a way. When a community is confronted with something strange and scary (and there are people out there VERY afraid of gays), there are a number of ways one can deal with the stress. Laughing at something, while not the most polite thing to do, makes it feel less scary and over time results in a less hostile reaction to the issue. Turning gayness into a joke helps people cope, reduces the more destructive responses, and over a generation or two paves the way for NOT seeing something as a horrible threat. Quote: 2 women kissing is awesome. That evaporates REAL quick when the guy realizes that the girls are honestly not intersted in him, and can quickly turn very nasty. The '2 women kissing is awesome' thing is still pretty new. Go back a few decades to when women's lib was the 'great evil' and lesbians were just plaine reviled. I think the main thing that has changed this over time is the number of girls who 'play lesbian' with the ultimate goal of attracting a guy. Those girls get status from their games, but actual lesbians end up getting the resulting hostiltiy when a guy figures out that they are for rea.
mamolian Madhatters Inc. Pure.	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:01:00 - [99] Originally by: Kaeten Edited by: Kaeten on 27/08/2008 19:43:33 Originally by: Hegotu Alecto TBH im openly gay, had the odd issue but nothing that bothered me too much, most gay/lesbian people tend not to care enough to actually rant about it and just get on with the game. ive found most people alright with it and actually have a laugh, DICE/BoB is very accepting and lots of friendly banter which is ridiculously funny. WHY do i get Dianabolic's name into my head lolxD, give him a hug from me will ya.. and maybe something more. Pfft forget Dianabolic.. Molle in that pink hat cookin wieners on the bbq.. hansom beast tbh. I seriously hate politically correct bullshit.. But I've witnessed some real nasty insults in my time in EVE.. Sometimes even had to put a stop to heated ranting in past alliance chats on this topic.. you get some redneck mouthing off, while not realising several of his friends in the corp/alliance were gay.. EVE is no different than any other MMO in this regard tho. In fact since it has such a steep learning curve.. in my experience the vast majority of players in this game are generally pretty intelligent and civil/decent folk. Most of the "thats so gay" talk have no real intent to insult gay guys/girls, and if you brought it to their attention you found it insulting.. It would immediately stop. I have used such language myself in the past.. and after its slipped out of my mouth/or into the text bar after hitting return.. I feel ashamed tbh.. As I'm similarly ashamed and angry with myself for using language such as "****". Anyways, I'm glad CCP are finally fixing that **ing word filter! -----------
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.27 20:11:00 - [100] Some people thing it's A-Ok to use racial slurs in addition to the standard lexicon of vaguelly homophobic language. Would you all be as quick to condemn the author of that article if they were complaning about the way some alliances throw "Jew" and "******" around? I kind of doubt it.

Rick Rothsar Ghosts of Ragnarok	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:08:00 - [101] At the end of the day if people hurt you with the chatbox and not with f1-f8, you're doing it wrong.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:21:00 - [102] Just as the word gay evolved from meaning happy, to a homosexual, it's now evolved into meaning lame, dumb, stupid, weak or any other negative terms. For most people, no one thinks of gay as meaning happy except a few senior citizens perhaps. It's gotten to the point, gay has no affiliation with someone being a homosexual for me. A person is a person. I don't care what your sexual preference is. Labeling someone is foolish. Homosexuals want the world to open up their minds and embrace change, then they might want to embrace the fact that gay has a whole new meaning than it used to. Now calling someone a h0m0 or f4ggot is a bit much and that would definitely be offensive to many people and I could understand someone getting upset over it. Let's face it, anything can be gay under the new definition of it. The bakery is out of sugared doughuts? That's gay. The bus left before you got there? That's gay. Really if you were to call someone gay, I think a lot of kids wouldn't even think of that person as a homosexual, but more as a person who is a lamer or loser. The sexual identity aspect of gay is long gone I think.
Ratha Renoir	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:41:00 - [103] "The sexual identity aspect of gay is long gone I think." That's very evolved... Or very ignorant... Brain hurts trying to figure out which... oh well, more beer might help...
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:23:00 - [104] What qualifies you as a donor? I am a fairly intelligent... ..uh, good-looking man. Physically fit, stable. Thank you. Heterosexual? - Can I ask you something? - Sure. Are you a *got? See? I asked you the same question, only I was clear about the answer I was looking for. I just asked if you were heterosexual. Well, I've never killed a man. - I beg your pardon? - I've never killed a man. - I didn't ask if you had. - I think that's my qualification. Why is that an important qualification for semen donation? It's a big ing... Sorry, a very important qualification. - No one's ever said that before. - Have you ever asked? - No. - You should. Take Los Angeles. If I say that Los Angeles has become a Mecca for homosexual migration, I am right, but look at what I am saying. I am implying gots are nomadic if not predatory miscreants who need to move around. I am likening them to Muslims, or Muslims to them. Saying "LA is full of gots" is just being honest. Why? - Nobody brings up sex with corpses! - It's sick. - You brought it up. - To say I never did it. - I didn't ask. - You should. got. - Just say it. Say it. - No. I'm not gonna say that. If I grab a woman's ass and she punches me, she's fighting for her rights, but if a got grabs my ass and I punch his lights out, - I'm a homophobe. - Let's move on. Are...you...a *got? - Any mental illness in the family? - It's not what you say any more. - It's all in how you say it. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:27:00 - [105] in todays world people will seek to become victims, as victimisation gives you power, and is open to cynical exploitation. and should you call someone out on this? oh, you become an -ist of course.
Maverick Ice	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:54:00 - [106] Originally by: Lyvv Originally by: Angry Lesbian Then I start ranting and calling people æbreedersÆ and ædamned heterosexualsÆ until I wise up and log off for a while to cool down. LoL didnt know that "breeders" was an insult?! Wonder how she thought she came onto this earth. ****ing tube-babies for the win. "breeders", huh? hah. Insult me some more :)
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:08:00 - [107] I personally come down on the side of overly sensitve loser...for the most part. You could put it the mistreat someone and they then get very overly senseitve about it. If I cared enough about it, which I don't the breeder/redneck comments in the article really did take what little I care about it and pretty much killed it, skinned it and ran over it mutiple times. On the other hand if I had the occasion to shoot the shit out of the player in question I would enjoy shooting such a emo ****wit... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:34:00 - [108] It's not even that calling something gay, or a f-ag is about gay bashing anymore. God knows I'm not the straightest person in the world, but even I say it (or yell it). And I know enough gay people who do say it and don't even think twice about it. So pretty much I'm just reiterating what I said before, article is dumb. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:35:00 - [109] Eris shines in this thread. Eris, you're awsome. Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Kalahari Wayrest Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:52:00 - [110] Hum. Well. I can't say I found the article particularly het-up, emo ragey or ranty. I've written more impassioned rants on not being able to swear on forums - her arguements seem quite calm, collected and articulate so I'm not sure where that particular criticism comes from. If people are viewing this as an attack on Eve players, it's worth keeping in mind she describes EVE as a "nominally gay-friendly" world (which is better than many)and describes her "myriad experiences" with joining corporations. And sexuality aside - I could say the same, some corps I've been in have been terrible and not a right-fit for my personality and others have. So yes, the point I'm making is that I didn't find the article 'eve bashing' - it was fairly balanced. Quote: Also, the (paraphrasing) "we don't need to know you're a freaking lesbian" remark... while crude and rude at the same time, that's akin to somebody saying "we don't need to know your girlfriend just arrived", "we don't need to know you burned the steak in the oven because of the gatecamp" or even "stop bragging about stuff". I think that's true in general, but maybe not in the example she raises. She was giving a reason for logging out and, according to her, made a verbal slip. This is a bit different to being openly lesbian and making sure everyone knows about it. The guy who reacted badly to this, according to her, apparently "talked endlessly about oggling strippers." Endlessly sexual remarks about women + reacting badly to lesbian = very insecure male. And there are a lot of insecure guys who play MMOs, the "no girls on the internet" meme shows that, plus the bragging geekery of how good they are with women irl just shows how badly certain people need attention. (Ryan someone or other does that a lot in OOP ) Quote: Quote: 2 women kissing is awesome. That evaporates REAL quick when the guy realizes that the girls are honestly not intersted in him, and can quickly turn very nasty. Very true. Quote: Originally by: An AnarchyytThis article is incredibly stupid, none of this is unique to Eve, or MMOs in any way. Agreed!! Whomever wrote it should try the free weekend on steam and play TF2 or Counter Strike Source.. They will have a heart attack reading the crap those kids say!! Well, yes and no. The thing is she's coming at the article from two angles which is probably a mistake. The prevalence of casual language taken as an anti-gay slur The unique problems an MMO poses With the first, then you're both right - and I would agree she's being a tad oversensitive, but then that's easy for me to say. With the second, her point is more valid. With MMOS, and in particular EVE, you're in it for the long haul. The people you meet and play with you're likely to form a close relationship with over time. This is not really the case in a free weekend of TF2 or Counterstrike Source. She makes this point here: "There is also always the option to choose to keep your sexual orientation offline, which is a perfectly acceptable choiceùbut can lead to awkward moments. Conversation rarely stays solely about things in game (even in roleplaying groups), and when someone asks you if youÆre married or have a boyfriendùwell, itÆs either lie or tell a twisted version of the truth." Quote: On the internet, there is no such thing as gender. Dont mention your gender, dont care about another persons gender, dont talk about subjects relating to gender with people you dont know.Your opening a can of worms by mentioning your a man/woman or your sexual orientation in this digital world and you best be able to stand the fire the moment someone in the above group catches wiff of what you said. Erm, Teamspeak? It's a prequisite for a lot of pew-pew corps... (more to follow ) __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus

Kalahari Wayrest Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:00:00 - [111] Quote: Seriously though, I don't know many people that get through a sentence or two without slipping in a swear word or two, even those that are very innapropriate. True. I think her problem though isn't with swearing per se, it's that part of her personal identity is being used as a swear word. The key word here is 'personal' - in a sense, yes that is her problem, and no it's not specific to MMOs. (though you could argue "that's so ghey" language is mainly spoken by adolescent males, who are usually the key demographic in MMOs, though possibly not EVE) It's here I would agree she's being sensitive, and yes you can argue that the word doesn't mean the same thing as it used to. However, if there's a disparity between what the person speaking/typing conveys and what the person hearing/reading recieves, then there's going to be a problem. Language changes and evolves, and to an extent you have to roll with that - but the thing is, there's always going to be the undercurrent of how it got to be as it is. Quote: Jade has no right whatsoever to make a point against blunt and offensive statements on the internet being an offender himself. I was going to point that out given I think I've read Jade wish cancer on someone and various other nicities However, reading his post a bit further you'll see he admits he's used the language under discussion, regrets it, and considers (paraphrasing as I didn't copy and paste this one ) restraint to be strength of character or something along those lines. So fair enough tbh, I don't think you can accuse him of being hypocritical here. Quote: TL;DR = Free Speach is always a good thing, Censorship is always a bad thing I agree, though I'm not sure that's what she's talking about. __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:05:00 - [112] Quote: I think that's true in general, but maybe not in the example she raises. She was giving a reason for logging out and, according to her, made a verbal slip. This is a bit different to being openly lesbian and making sure everyone knows about it. The guy who reacted badly to this, according to her, apparently "talked endlessly about oggling strippers." Endlessly sexual remarks about women + reacting badly to lesbian = very insecure male. And there are a lot of insecure guys who play MMOs, the "no girls on the internet" meme shows that, plus the bragging geekery of how good they are with women irl just shows how badly certain people need attention. (Ryan someone or other does that a lot in OOP ) Huh? Cmon, this is EVE. Remember "Womens play eve?" If what she states did take place, how do YOU think it really went. "afk guys, my gf just walked in brb" DID YOU SAY GF?! Where do you live? I want to join? BRB, going to fap FC - yeah everyone take 5 If the latter half of her story checks out, then I imagine the negative lesbian connotation was piled on after everyone was already ****ed at her for whatever reason. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:09:00 - [113] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17 People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. I¦m sure the ¦it¦s so gay¦type of thing will blow over in a few years and then it might be ¦Oh that¦s just so senior. Go on retirement man.¦ Sorry, but sometimes you need to toughen up on the internet. And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. Eris once abused my hat... she said mean things to it. Still lots of wub though, just... my hat... is... forever scarred mentally... \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Dirtee Girl Omega Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:10:00 - [114] tbh i dont think that the issue really is language in mmo's but rather just common place phrases and so on because in any casual conversations you can hear the same thing the article makes it sound like it's eve or the eve community in parts . but really it's more the human community and just the thing they say . now if some were to make deliberate anti semetic remarks or statements relating to a race being inferior becaus of stereotyping or baseless " facts " then it's an issue . but hardly an eve issue but a people issue in general . * *
MataSanos	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:34:00 - [115] i am heterosexual if anyone call me heterosexual i dont get offended and that is not anti-heterosexual language so if i call gay a gay person that anti gay language .... WTF
Kalahari Wayrest Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.08.28 00:39:00 - [116] Edited by: Kalahari Wayrest on 28/08/2008 00:41:04 Quote: Huh? Cmon, this is EVE. Remember "Womens play eve?" If what she states did take place, how do YOU think it really went. "afk guys, my gf just walked in brb" DID YOU SAY GFShocked?! Where do you live? I want to join? BRB, going to fap FC - yeah everyone take 5 If the latter half of her story checks out, then I imagine the negative lesbian connotation was piled on after everyone was already ***ed at her for whatever reason. Don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure I get your point Which is probably my fault as in the bit you quoted I was trying to make a few different points... Akita T was suggesting that the guys response was coming more from a "I don't care what you do in your personal life" than a "I hate lesbians" angle - I counterargued that what the guy said coupled with going on about strippers suggests hostility from insecurity, rather than simply not caring. (Though simply not caring could otherwise be a common response) I think* (correct me if I'm wrong I might need reading comprehension 101...) you're saying that the scenario as she paints it is unlikely in EVE? Well she could have made the whole thing up, sure. But all we're going on is what she's written. I can definately see your scenario taking place and taken in the right (?) way, it's all harmless banter - but maybe the two scenarios aren't mutually exclusive? blogging lesbian:afk guys, my gf just walked in brb corpmember1: DID YOU SAY GF corpmember21:Where do you live? corpmember2:I want to join? corpmember5:We donÆt need to know ur a ing dyke. corpmember4:BRB, going to fap FC: - yeah everyone take 5 ? She did say it was 1 person, not the entire corp. Though that said, while I'd consider your scenario as mainly humourous (if immature) banter, I could understand if your scenario woudn't go down particularly well with her __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.28 01:46:00 - [117] Edited by: Sharupak on 28/08/2008 01:52:48 Originally by: Kalahari Wayrest Edited by: Kalahari Wayrest on 28/08/2008 00:57:50 Quote: Huh? Cmon, this is EVE. Remember "Womens play eve?" If what she states did take place, how do YOU think it really went. "afk guys, my gf just walked in brb" DID YOU SAY GFShocked?! Where do you live? I want to join? BRB, going to fap FC - yeah everyone take 5 If the latter half of her story checks out, then I imagine the negative lesbian connotation was piled on after everyone was already ***ed at her for whatever reason. Don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure I get your point Which is probably my fault as in the bit you quoted I was trying to make a few different points... Akita T was suggesting that the guys response was coming more from a "I don't care what you do in your personal life" than a "I hate lesbians" angle - I counterargued that what the guy said coupled with going on about strippers suggests hostility from insecurity, rather than simply not caring. (Though simply not caring could otherwise be a common response) I think* (correct me if I'm wrong I might need reading comprehension 101...) you're saying that the scenario as she paints it is unlikely in EVE? Well she could have made the whole thing up, sure. But all we're going on is what she's written. I can definately see your scenario taking place and taken in the right (?) way, it's all harmless banter - but maybe the two scenarios aren't mutually exclusive? blogging lesbian:afk guys, my gf just walked in brb corpmember1: DID YOU SAY GF corpmember2:Where do you live? corpmember3:I want to join? corpmember4:We donÆt need to know ur a ing dyke. corpmember5:BRB, going to fap FC: - yeah everyone take 5 ? She did say it was 1 person, not the entire corp. Though that said, while I'd consider your scenario as mainly humourous (if immature) banter, I could understand if your scenario woudn't go down particularly well with her Your last 3 lines sum it up exactly. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
MidnightMartyr Gallente Chowabunga Inc. Ascendo-Tuum	Posted - 2008.08.28 03:55:00 - [118] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments. In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now? As a black man I officially give you the rights to call nano pilots Nano Ni--ers. In fact I believe thats my newest phrase. Bottom line immature people+anonymity+an audience= total f---bends. There is nothing you can do about it, get over it. You don't hear me crying foul every time some one exclaims "ni--er" into corp chat. -_-
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.28 04:37:00 - [119] Edited by: Ryan Scouse''UK on 28/08/2008 04:37:40 Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 27/08/2008 16:57:20 Heh, its news that there are angst-filled and bigotted people in a playerbase of 300,000 people? Next you'll tell me that rain is wet. Sidenote - once heard over fleet voice channel someone talk about dragging black people behind their truck...Yikes. Did you ask them why they used a truck & not a faster more effective method for the result they were after? Either way it does not seem the correct place to point out such a remark over fleet voice when ur fighting. no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman
Qaedienne	Posted - 2008.08.28 05:08:00 - [120] Edited by: Qaedienne on 28/08/2008 05:10:01 An interesting article and thread. The first thing that struck me was that for someone writing an article about hate language and/or stereotypes, she seems unaware that she is guilty of the same ("breeders", "redneck"). It makes me wonder if she understands bigotry enough to recognize it when it doesn't target homosexuals. I get the feeling she doesn't, and I would guess that her reasoning is that she doesn't need to because of her sexual orientation. As far as offensive language goes, I have yet to play an MMO that doesn't have language offensive or abusive to everyone in large/public chat channels. That's why most people turn them off or minimize them. I don't believe it's an EvE issue, or even an MMO issue. It's an internet issue (unfettered free speech). Freedom of speech often clashes with orthodoxy. tl;dr version: Pot -> Kettle + get over it.

TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.08.28 06:17:00 - [121] Originally by: MailDeadDrop Originally by: Catherine Frasier That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive. Surely you understand why, to someone who is joyous and merry, that the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "homosexual" is pretty damned offensive! MDD LOL Quoted for great justice.
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.28 07:15:00 - [122] Edited by: Spaztick on 28/08/2008 07:15:31 Edited by: Spaztick on 28/08/2008 07:15:22 I, a gay bachelor, am offended at this quFer post. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.28 08:40:00 - [123] ROFL the world is sooooo evil cry they say words cry ROFL down with political correctness! everyone has to live his life and has to accept other people's views about it the same way they want to have their way of life accepted. dixit Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Ninsoku	Posted - 2008.08.28 08:56:00 - [124] Edited by: Ninsoku on 28/08/2008 08:56:52 When players online type 'that was gay' I think the majority of the time they do not mean it in a real life anti-gay way. The word in it's online use - especially in gaming has evolved to mean 'cheap' or 'lame'. However if you type 'you are gay' or 'you're a f*g' then the intention is very obvious and discriminatory to ones sexual orientation or the perception thereof. The internet is a very dynamic community and as such language used in the real world can change and mean something very different in cyberspace.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.28 09:12:00 - [125] Edited by: Evanade on 28/08/2008 09:14:08 sok alt - main got banzored
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.28 09:13:00 - [126] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: MailDeadDrop Originally by: Catherine Frasier That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive. Surely you understand why, to someone who is joyous and merry, that the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "homosexual" is pretty damned offensive! MDD LOL Quoted for great justice. qft sok alt - main got banzored
Hegotu Alecto Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.28 09:20:00 - [127] Well, now ive been seeing "Thats so Str8" whatever else next. as for defending "Thats so gay" people who are less secure than i am, that your saying the word gay is a bad thing. personally i dont brand or stereotype myself. im a person, my husband is a person, were not gay/str8 etc were just two normal people. the younger less experienced and Emotionally unstable Homo's will learn in time, but it usually takes about 10 years. im 25 now and well ive pretty much been the same, i really dont care what people think of me, i dont lower myself to ranting about silly name calling, ive far more important things to worry about. Thats what the new generation of homos need to learn, things were different 10 years ago, its easier now in a more accepting world, it wasnt 10 years back. TD:LR Homos, learn not to be a bit Emo and stop stereotyping/branding yourself cos its cool, the worlds alot easier for homos nowadays, take advantage and stop with the emo stuff. also learn from us older generation of gays who had to fight for their rights and freedoms that you take for granted every day -------------------------------
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:00:00 - [128] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia And in EVE, when your corporation gives you shit you blow them up and steal their loot after offering to escort their valuables. Best dev post I've seen all month. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Yoshimako	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:36:00 - [129] Edited by: Yoshimako on 28/08/2008 10:38:03 Originally by: Davina Braben Edited by: Davina Braben on 27/08/2008 20:31:09 Some people thing it's A-Ok to use racial slurs in addition to the standard lexicon of vaguelly homophobic language. Would you all be as quick to condemn the author of that article if they were complaning about the way some alliances throw "Jew" and "****" around? I kind of doubt it. Seriously. Black person complaining about racial harassment in EVE. Would you be saying they should just suck it down and people are using that language in an ironic fashion? I'm not saying I agree with the author (although belonging to no minority that's ever been oppressed I'm not sure I'd be qualified to agree or disagree) but I do think it's a peculiar double standard. I use alot of racial slurs tbh, i also use the "thats so gay" etc. I'm not racist, and I'm certainly not homophobic. Yes these words are offensive still but i think it is steadily changing. For instance, black people started using the word **** themselves to take the power of it away from people that were really using it maliciously, that was an awesome idea! Let's not beat around the bush okay, what black people used to have to go through (and still do in some places) is horrific. I mean utterly disgusting. There is no excuse for it at all. None. Ever. The world now is fortunately quite a bit more tolerant now, it isn't perfect by any means, but it's getting there, it isn't going to happen over night either. But with the rise in popularity of black culture (and as funny as it is all the wannabe white boys running around pretending to be black) the use of the word n*gger and other such slurs have been totaly taken out of context. Yes, technically they are still horrible words, but think about it. If it carries on like this then in 20-50 years then such words will be pretty much meaningless. Thats my way of looking at things like that anyway. No i'm not exactly going to walk in to a room full of black people and start spouting words like that but thats only beacuse i don't want to offend people. Afterall not everyone is of the same mind, and ofcourse the people that have had to suffer such slurs really being directed towards them, are not going to like them in most cases. As for on the internet, you need to 'man-up' some people as we all know, are just out to hit buttons. Deal with it, ignore them, whatever. But remember the more you whine, the worse they will be.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.28 11:13:00 - [130] I LOL'd so hard on the term snown*gger. I'm from finland myself so thats okay, right? _______ ◕◡◕

Xtreem Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers	Posted - 2008.08.28 11:28:00 - [131] i think its funny, surly to someone that is gay being called gay is not an insult more of a truth, live and let live and never take anything to heart in a game, its all giggles :)
Arilanus Doshenko Ascendant Strategies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 11:47:00 - [132] Dear people-who-want-to-do-people-with-same-genitals, I'm officially recinding your rights to the usage of the word 'gay' and 'lesbian', so they can be used for other purposes. Us "breeders" have to stick with "heterosexual" and "straight". We don't get fancy gender-specific terms. This is unfair, and tantamount to discrimination. You'll have to decide between you on the moniker of the future. So, as a counterpoint to 'straight', I offer the following alternatives: Circular, Fractal, Rhomboid or Narrow. "Wiggly" can be made available upon request. Bisexuals will henceforth be known as 'parallelograms'.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:06:00 - [133] Originally by: Great Artista I LOL'd so hard on the term snowngger. I'm from finland myself so thats okay, right? not ok, this is offensive towards snow and with global warming snow is a pretty endangered species now Originally by:* George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:02:00 - [134] The belief that calling someone or something in this game 'gay' is actually a homophobic statement is either ignorance or intentional misunderstanding. Half my expletives/exclamations reference god; yet I do not even believe in god (as such). This is similar to a situation where someone references girls in chat, makes a generalisation, and some genius pipes up "Well I'm a girl and we don't like...". Not only is this asking to be trolled by showing that you are offended by what is being said, it is also hypocritical both in that it itself is making a generalisation about females and in that by implicitly asking for special treatment ("I am a girl/gay/handicapped so please don't say X") it is essentially asking for discrimination. Thus it both asks to be and deserves to be trolled. No wonder it, you know, gets trolled. Most (though not all) of the article writer's issues are from the victim mentality one would expect from someone writing on a website aimed at a minority. - DesuSigs
Voltain BEER Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:10:00 - [135] Gay used to mean happy, nothing more. Arse Bandits and Fur Munchers stole my happy wordz! DesuSig
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:19:00 - [136] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf When you can't make comments, positive, negative, or downright derogatory about a group of people then that is discrimination. Hardly anyone ever complains about anything offensive to ginger people, or those with freckles, the overweight, the spotty, the nerdy, etc. "Hardly anyone ever complains" is not exactly the point though, is it? Try firing an employee because they have freckles and see how "OK" that turns out to be. Of course, nobody does that, but because you're gay, or black, etc... Yeah, that is still an everyday situation. Works the opposite way round here. Acts have been passed, repealed, and passed again that force companies to hire a certain percentage of disabled people or people of non-caucasian ethnicities. Most companies are reluctant to fire minority employees due to fear of being taken to court. Even in criminal law if it's assault your likely to get a much harsher sentace against non-whites since it is automatically perceived as racially motivated and you almost daren't be so much as rude to them for fear of being accused of a hate-crime. It's officially sanctioned discrimination. Originally by: Catherine Frasier Asking not to be insulted and abused simply because of some random group you happen to fall into is not about "superiority". Asking isn't, expecting is. People insult each other, humor is based on difference, and in general humanity isn't very nice. Yet a great many people seem to think the world revolves around them and that they should be immune to such things. If someone called me a Honky I wouldn't take them to court over it and I certainly wouldn't win if I did. I'm a believer in equal rights for all, yet when it comes to minorities this is often not the case and while in some countries this door swings both ways, or they are oppressed, in others they are given a distinct legal advantage and special treatment based on their "grouping". If putting people in little boxes and giving them differing treatment and rights is blatant discrimination. In short: Freedom of speech includes the freedom to be mean unless the speaker is trying to motivate a crime of some kind. It shouldn't have clauses. Now excuse me while I successfully take someone to court for non-offensively getting my ethnicity wrong.
Rana Ash Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.08.28 14:57:00 - [137] Originally by: Arilanus Doshenko Dear people-who-want-to-do-people-with-same-genitals, I'm officially recinding your rights to the usage of the word 'gay' and 'lesbian', so they can be used for other purposes. Us "breeders" have to stick with "heterosexual" and "straight". We don't get fancy gender-specific terms. This is unfair, and tantamount to discrimination. You'll have to decide between you on the moniker of the future. So, as a counterpoint to 'straight', I offer the following alternatives: Circular, Fractal, Rhomboid or Narrow. "Wiggly" can be made available upon request. Bisexuals will henceforth be known as 'parallelograms'. Umm /signd, i concur, i agree whole heartedly lyret dedreen
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.28 15:52:00 - [138] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide ROFL the world is sooooo evil cry they say words cry ROFL down with political correctness! everyone has to live his life and has to accept other people's views about it the same way they want to have their way of life accepted. dixit QFT, sadly. I was going to say something similar along these lines, but quoted poster said it much much better than I could ever think up. -
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.08.28 20:43:00 - [139] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 28/08/2008 20:46:00 From the Web Whine; Quote: Other times, IÆve been welcomed in with open arms and never had a single uncomfortable experience as a lesbian gamer. My current corporation has several gay members and we all joke and laugh about our lives, our various girlfriends, boyfriends, wives and husbands and how nasty it is to get *our ships nuked by a redneck, hormonal teenagerùwithout any drama over anyoneÆs sexual orientation.* This author is upset someone might say something is "gay," "ghey," or "ghay," but somehow this author knows that another player is a "redneck", and calls them a redneck, and knows what the ages are of other players, and what their physiology is. Just as long as no conversation brings up sexual orientation - this woman feels free to use terms like "redneck" and "hormonal teenager." The author is not a dyke. She is a bi tch, and that is why no one likes her - because she is a whiny bi tch. There, I said it. She is a flaming bi tch. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Darrien Hayes Caldari Gay Liberation Society	Posted - 2008.08.28 21:47:00 - [140] dear oh dear, its worse than i thought

Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.29 00:39:00 - [141] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Quote: Other times, IÆve been welcomed in with open arms and never had a single uncomfortable experience as a lesbian gamer. My current corporation has several gay members and we all joke and laugh about our lives, our various girlfriends, boyfriends, wives and husbands and how nasty it is to get *our ships nuked by a redneck, hormonal teenagerùwithout any drama over anyoneÆs sexual orientation.* This author is upset someone might say something is "gay," "ghey," or "ghay," but somehow this author knows that another player is a "redneck", and calls them a redneck, and knows what the ages are of other players, and what their physiology is. Just as long as no conversation brings up sexual orientation - this woman feels free to use terms like "redneck" and "hormonal teenager." The author is not a dyke. She is a bi tch, and that is why no one likes her - because she is a whiny bi tch. There, I said it. She is a flaming hypocrit bi tch. I believe the correct non-wordfilter-avoiding term would be hypocrite. But it's okay to be ageist or racist so long as your not homophobic, after-all her minority group is special, she's in it.
Nynaeve Ares Animus Incarnate	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:10:00 - [142] Welcome to the internet, if you are not offended at some point you are not human.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:15:00 - [143] Originally by: Hegotu Alecto "Breeders" is a Slur used by the gays, the terminology is quite simple, it means that Heterosexuals are like rabbits, constantly breeding, supply and demand etc and all that tripe Would they be offended by the term "half-breeder" then ? _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:14:00 - [144] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Hegotu Alecto "Breeders" is a Slur used by the gays, the terminology is quite simple, it means that Heterosexuals are like rabbits, constantly breeding, supply and demand etc and all that tripe Would they be offended by the term "half-breeder" then ? lol nice one ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Xap Starfire	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:57:00 - [145] I was in a corporation where every third word on ventrillo was "gay". Although the gay-sayers (middle aged men for the most part) were always using it in the "gay=uncool" context rather than in the literal, "gay=homosexual" context, I eventually came to the conclusion that the gay-sayers were actually a bunch of repressed bisexual married men. Their repeated use of the word "gay" in a variety of contexts only suggested their own repressed and unfulfilled homosexual tendencies.
Lord Makk Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.29 06:32:00 - [146] It's okay to be gay. But tbh, gay folks can blame themselves for getting the heat from the homophobic ones and/or random ******s. Stop flashing with parades and shouting to everyone what u are :) Then you might be left alone :) At least by us somewhat decent folks. Also, the media must take it's blame for what it's turning into. Also Mk II.... Lesbians... weee! ;)
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.29 09:11:00 - [147] Originally by: Rana Ash Originally by: Arilanus Doshenko Dear people-who-want-to-do-people-with-same-genitals, I'm officially recinding your rights to the usage of the word 'gay' and 'lesbian', so they can be used for other purposes. Us "breeders" have to stick with "heterosexual" and "straight". We don't get fancy gender-specific terms. This is unfair, and tantamount to discrimination. You'll have to decide between you on the moniker of the future. So, as a counterpoint to 'straight', I offer the following alternatives: Circular, Fractal, Rhomboid or Narrow. "Wiggly" can be made available upon request. Bisexuals will henceforth be known as 'parallelograms'. Umm /signd, i concur, i agree whole heartedly
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.29 09:14:00 - [148] gay str8 it's all the same I'm not one for taking a shot in the mouth or a jab in the ass I enjoy my heteroness/ breeder yes that me I said breeder. I for one don't really give a crap about all this gay/***** shit people r people to me just because u like people with the same parts makes no differance in my life. We all bleed red
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.29 09:15:00 - [149] Originally by: Taradis gay str8 it's all the same I'm not one for taking a shot in the mouth or a jab in the ass I enjoy my heteroness/ breeder yes that me I said breeder. I for one don't really give a crap about all this gay/***** shit people r people to me just because u like people with the same parts makes no differance in my life. We all bleed red Wow i can say Gay but not Les BO oi this filter is the most pointless one ever
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:00:00 - [150] I myself have nothing agsint homos/bis as I said earlier in this thread, however put it like this. some people might not like me for my attitude and some others may love me for it. same here, everyones got an opionion so quit whining, it's how the world works. if everyone had a "good" opionion about everything there would be no trouble about anything because everyone would think the same. ________________________ I'M POOR

Phaige Minmatar Reaver Construction Services	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:32:00 - [151] Originally by: Arilanus Doshenko Dear people-who-want-to-do-people-with-same-genitals, I'm officially recinding your rights to the usage of the word 'gay' and 'lesbian', so they can be used for other purposes. Us "breeders" have to stick with "heterosexual" and "straight". We don't get fancy gender-specific terms. This is unfair, and tantamount to discrimination. You'll have to decide between you on the moniker of the future. So, as a counterpoint to 'straight', I offer the following alternatives: Circular, Fractal, Rhomboid or Narrow. "Wiggly" can be made available upon request. Bisexuals will henceforth be known as 'parallelograms'. This wins for the day. ----------------------------------------------- You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper!
Feilamya Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.30 15:40:00 - [152] Don't know if it has been posted yet, but ... You should know the difference And anything else that had to be said was already said by Eris Discordia on one of the first pages.
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.30 17:31:00 - [153] i for 1 welcome our new lesbians in action !..has anyone got a dvd of them on the job destroy everything you touch
Davthalas Gallente North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2008.08.31 00:52:00 - [154] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Yeah, I don¦t see why people get offended if they are called gay, a lesbian or whatever. A better response in my opinion would be ¦so what of it?¦ That's not the issue. It's the use of the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid". Surely you understand why, to someone who is gay, that's pretty damned offensive. So call me gay and I will say 'What about it?". Say that because I am gay I am therefore stupid or inferior and that's a whole different issue. That's the issue that Laura Vess is discussing. Not name-calling, just good old fashioned gay bashing. I'll admit that sometimes gay people **** me off, they always whine about how bad they have it once someone that isn't gay says the word 'gay'. Fact is gay isn't your damn word. It was originally used as an alternative to the word happy, also meaning fancy-free. If you don't want people to say it invent your own word then try to stop it from entering into vernacular use. Thanks.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.31 03:24:00 - [155] Originally by: Davthalas Fact is gay isn't your damn word. It was originally used as an alternative to the word happy, also meaning fancy-free. If you don't want people to say it invent your own word then try to stop it from entering into vernacular use. Thanks. This.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2008.09.13 00:00:00 - [156] part 2 http://www.lesbianation.com/article.cfm?ArticlePage=1&Section=67&id=20298 Signature is inappropriate and has been removed. Navigator
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.13 00:11:00 - [157] Calling a Drake a ***drake isn't necessarily putting it down, it can take a good pounding. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Kalahari Wayrest Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.09.13 00:42:00 - [158] Quote: http://www.lesbianation.com/article.cfm?ArticlePage=1&Section=67&id=20298 hum, wonder what the backlash'll be to that one actually, that was a pretty interesting read. Particularly the bit about Valerie Massey requesting 'gay' to be a filtered word. That had always confused and annoyed me, and been the absolute worst thing they could have done in my opinion. It's not only assuming that the negative connotation is the only way the word could be used, but it's reinforcing it by implying it's unacceptable/needs to be filtered out (and yes it's their forums, they can filter what they like, etc) - it's over analysing, but it wouldn't have been a stretch to assume that was how CCP felt about gay people, which is presumably the exact opposite of the intention. so that explains that it was coming from the right place, just (in my opinion) handled in the wrong way. from recollection actually, one of the arguments for it being filtered was that it's a teen forum, and therefore isn't appropriate for discussions about sexuality. that's debateable, particularly as adolescence is when the major questions about identity seem to occur, but probably a better tack to take. ('lesbian' was also filtered iirc, which is less likely to be used as an insult/slang - that would be lezza or *** or something more derrogatory) I think it's positive that they listened to a player about that particular policy - and a subsequent reversal of that policy - though I'm curious how many years that took five if I read the article correctly (the word suggested for filtering in 2002, someone complaining a year ago) though maybe no one had approached them directly about it before - I spose complainin' on the forums doesn't really count my personal view is that absolutely concerns should be followed up and dealt with if people are feeling harassed on an individual basis, but preemptive things like filtering words to 'protect' a group of people who presumably weren't asked if they wanted that kind of babying seems like, with the best of intentions, it's jumping the gun a bit - but that might just be the anti-censor in me talking. (another censoring issue that confused me was why '**' was filtered, but the less innocuous 'crap' is allowed but that's a completely separate issue was 'breasts' also censored at one point or am I making shit up now? A list would be handy ) __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.09.13 02:05:00 - [159] Originally by: Caedicus I can somewhat understand why people think it's offensive because I think if everyone said "That's American" or "Using alts to spy is such an American Tactic" to describe things that are sucky, it might get on my nerves as an American. Dude I'm sorry to break it to you. But the rest of the world refers to America in just those terms. That's the perception of Americans. We're fat, stupid, religious, rude, and crazed trigger happy gun owners. I'm sorry but someone had to break it to you. Quote: "Using alts to spy is such an American Tactic" and that's a korean and/or chinese move ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Markessa Hrethnor Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.13 04:08:00 - [160] people that get offended easily by words, normally have much larger problems. especially in an online game in TYPED chat, not even verbal chat. perhaps she wants an award for being a lesbian? or, perhaps he/she really does have much much larger problems than being offended by some folks saying "that's gay", to the point that he/she has to go "hey i'm gay"... i've seen lots of people say "hey i'm gay" in those instances JUST to bait the people say "that's gay", in order to see if they'd apologize or go crazy with it. either way, the folks doing the baiting/trolling would laugh quite heartily at the reactions of the "gay bashers". i agree with another poster (several actually), but the one that mentioned that not all minorities have such a superiority complex as to demand special treatment and/or attention. bleh. if i get offended by the word 'cracker', can it get added to the filter? and if ghosts get offended by the word 'spook', can it also be filtered? and 'phat' is actually pronounced "fat"... so if obese people are offended, can that word, and words like large, big, huge, plump, hefty, etc also be banned? the word blind is probably offensive to people that can't see and they'd preferred to be call "sight-challenged"... i kid i kid, they'd prefer to be treated NORMAL. crazy huh? that SHOULD BE the normal, non-crazy-person reaction -- that they simply be treated as a typical member of society, or their group. bleh, whatever.

Nibra Rei	Posted - 2008.09.13 05:14:00 - [161] Edited by: Nibra Rei on 13/09/2008 05:15:17 I couldn't even get through this entire thread its full of so much bullcrap. Let me say this: If I ever hear someone in my corp or alliance spew words like that at me, I will be off with every unit of isk and asset I can get my grubby little hands on. They will regret the day they turn their ignorance on me.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.09.13 08:36:00 - [162] Is Kaikka really gay? www.siigarikitawa.com
Emeline Cabernet Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.13 10:32:00 - [163] Originally by: N1fty I found this BBC article very interesting. interesting? its a riot lol
CynoCyno1	Posted - 2008.09.13 16:50:00 - [164] Originally by: Phaige Originally by: Arilanus Doshenko Dear people-who-want-to-do-people-with-same-genitals, I'm officially recinding your rights to the usage of the word 'gay' and 'lesbian', so they can be used for other purposes. Us "breeders" have to stick with "heterosexual" and "straight". We don't get fancy gender-specific terms. This is unfair, and tantamount to discrimination. You'll have to decide between you on the moniker of the future. So, as a counterpoint to 'straight', I offer the following alternatives: Circular, Fractal, Rhomboid or Narrow. "Wiggly" can be made available upon request. Bisexuals will henceforth be known as 'parallelograms'. This is so funny - thats the only good thing to come out of EVE - online is that it brings very clever people to the forums to write such witty comments :)
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.13 19:53:00 - [165] Upfront im part jewish, and ive heard the comment"stop being jewish"or"you joobeg"said to other people and myself many times with the intent to joke about it.... And this affects me a grand total of 0. Saying something is gay in a mean manner is just a playfull thing(most of the time)and people that take such acts seriously should really stop playing eve, because it can get sooo much worse.
Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.13 23:30:00 - [166] Originally by: Kage Getsu Totally not surprised that a company from a country with an official state church blows off something like that. How dare someone say ANYTHING negative about religion! Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2008.09.14 00:29:00 - [167] Originally by: Multras Originally by: Kage Getsu Totally not surprised that a company from a country with an official state church blows off something like that. How dare someone say ANYTHING negative about religion! obligatory
Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.14 09:39:00 - [168] Originally by: Keta Min Originally by: Multras Originally by: Kage Getsu Totally not surprised that a company from a country with an official state church blows off something like that. How dare someone say ANYTHING negative about religion! obligatory My comment was sarcasm making fun of you, that's ok if you didnt get it though; it's ok to hate a group as long as it isnt of your own right? You are so gay. Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
Orange Species Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.14 17:12:00 - [169] Interesting article, seems to me that she takes what people say far too seriously. -------------
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.14 22:31:00 - [170] Hello all i am a moron and a tard, and i would like everyone NOT to use these words because it hurts my epeen, i mean feelings... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"

rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.09.15 01:51:00 - [171] leave it to the gays to get all butt hurt over words. Its words. Are they really that low with their self esteem, or that ashamed that they have to behave like this? People need to grow a spine and realize that they can be whatever they want. **** anyone that tells them different.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.15 03:40:00 - [172] that website is sooooo gay ba dum chaa!
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.09.15 06:05:00 - [173] Originally by: rValdez5987 leave it to the gays to get all butt hurt over words. I see what you did there! But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
KingsGambit Caldari Knights	Posted - 2008.09.15 10:11:00 - [174] These things start when people ascribe negative conotations to an otherwise normal/neutral word. The problem isn't necessarily the language in itself but the fact that we bandy about using these terms and phrases to mean negative things is what causes offense. I can see why some might take offense with these sorts of phrases being used, inadvertantly, like 'that's so gay' or 'you drive like a woman', etc. Although I do think political correctness is getting a little much and all of us ultimately should realise that it's part of the nature of language, and not necessarily meant to offend. Someone coined the the term the 'Euphamism Treadmill' which I think is quite relevant, describing just this sort of process whereby words that begin life with one meaning, over time become pejoratives, only to be replaced and have the cycle continue. We just happen to be much more sensitive to these things now with laws on equal rights, discrimination and so on, and an emerging 'litigation' culture. -------------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.15 11:19:00 - [175] Second article pulls back even further towards the realms of sanity, but still leaves with the example of not wanting a relative to play the game and see "ur so gay" everywhere, because as soon as you associate gay=bad you will start beating up gay people or something. This illustrates that she still can't differentiate between the label as a homosexual and the random slang which coincides with it. All in all she, like so many people on the web, just needs to STFU. - DesuSigs
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.15 11:21:00 - [176] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Edited by: CCP Eris Discordia on 27/08/2008 16:56:17 People also get annoyed when they compare ship fights to raping, it¦s offense to people who actually went through it. At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. They are using the term **** in the correct sense. It is not necessarely of a sexual nature. Do we also ban the word 'kill' because it may upset someone who suffered a death recently? I know in my country they are banning the term 'blackboard' in schools... Where does all this idiocy end? Paratwa Recruitment
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.09.15 11:43:00 - [177] Originally by: KingsGambit The problem isn't necessarily the language in itself but the fact that we bandy about using these terms and phrases to mean negative things is what causes offense. Although, I do think political correctness is getting a little much and all of us ultimately should realise that it's part of the nature of language, and not necessarily meant to offend. Someone coined the the term the 'Euphamism Treadmill' which I think is quite relevant, describing just this sort of process whereby words that begin life with one meaning, over time become pejoratives, only to be replaced and have the cycle continue. We just happen to be much more sensitive to these things now with laws on equal rights, discrimination and so on, and an emerging 'litigation' culture. Could not have said it better myself. This needed to be brought back to the top. Also, there are some real good laughs in this thread. Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. DesuSigs
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:06:00 - [178] Originally by: Lyvv Originally by: Angry Lesbian Then I start ranting and calling people æbreedersÆ and ædamned heterosexualsÆ until I wise up and log off for a while to cool down. LoL didnt know that "breeders" was an insult?! Wonder how she thought she came onto this earth. **ing tube-babies for the win. Anytime someone uses the term "breeders" like that, it makes me think of the Christopher Lambert movie: Fortress, where he and his wife get locked up for just that. Also, I wonder if anyone in this thread has ever read "The Forever War," interesting read given the subject matter. -- Originally by:** CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:21:00 - [179] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Lyvv Originally by: Angry Lesbian Then I start ranting and calling people æbreedersÆ and ædamned heterosexualsÆ until I wise up and log off for a while to cool down. LoL didnt know that "breeders" was an insult?! Wonder how she thought she came onto this earth. ****ing tube-babies for the win. Anytime someone uses the term "breeders" like that, it makes me think of the Christopher Lambert movie: Fortress, where he and his wife get locked up for just that. Also, I wonder if anyone in this thread has ever read "The Forever War," interesting read given the subject matter. Yes that was a intresting book. If I am thinking about the same book that is. Where same sex relationships became the norom and different sex reationships were viewed as peverse yes? ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Mara Devortex	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:16:00 - [180] Hmm reading the article gave me some food for thought..derogatory senseless ignorant remarks are rather normal in the world..but if someone where to directly attack you for being "gay" well thats different...but the appropriate response here is not play victim..beat the f++++ers down! its Eve so you CAN !!!

Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2008.09.18 04:28:00 - [181] I had a flamingly gay friend who would call things gay as negative. When other gay people would question her about it, she'd reply "It's prison gay. Not two girls in a hot-tub gay." ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Eran Mintor 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.09.18 09:25:00 - [182] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia At some time though you need to realise people don¦t mean it in the way you take offense to it and you are just being overly sensitive to it because they take it so personal. Not to put too fine a point on it but my having a thick skin has nothing to do with the acceptability of your sexist or homophobic comments. In fact, I'm quite sure that if we were talking about racism here the response would be much, much different. Or can we start calling nano pilots Nano N-----s now? Quoted and repeated for signifigance. die bigots die!
sugark Invicta.	Posted - 2008.09.18 12:51:00 - [183] On the flip side I could get all upset about the fact that there are around a dozen of ways to insult a guy by using various words for the female genitals. Does that mean that being female is insulting by default? I think one can both, take it too far with the insults but also take oneself too serious. _______________________________________________ Click pic to get a sig!
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2008.09.18 15:59:00 - [184] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 18/09/2008 16:00:21 I would never describe or even think of myself as a heterosexual gamer, any more than I would self-identify as a conservative or liberal gamer, a white or black gamer, a christian gamer or anything else. EU timezone is as much personal information as anyone gets in my CV. Hyphenating oneself, sticking in an adjective or attributive noun is a political act, it is usually telling, and inevitably one must question the motivation behind it. I would certainly wonder whether any individual asserting him or herself in that manner is a tourist or troll looking for conflict. Unfortunately given the anonymity of the internet, for every handful of people cool about themselves, there is someone nursing a persecution complex or trolling for controversy. Having moderated a forum or two, my impression is the writer of that article comes across as fitting the bill. EVE CCG Trinity Booster


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