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Why not end the pretence and make highsec a safezone?

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Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:12:00 - [331] Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Kelli Flay So in order to haul anything in high sec, noobs are expected to drop what they are training to train up Transports? {which are like a 2 month train} edit: i meant high sec, not low....corrected. Who on earth wants to suicide gank a noob? " "noob" was wording it badly. Another way to put it is in order to move things around in high sec, everyone should have Transports trained? I don't think that was the dev's intentions. If you want to move low amounts of very high value goods, I think you'll find that's exactly what transports are for. Well people can still use them. Nothing has changed there. You can still try to gank them as well. You can still gank lazy afk haulers as well. You just won't have an unlimited amount of ganks anymore. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:12:00 - [332] Originally by: Kelli Flay BTW: You guys sound just like the nano whiners. It is funny how you are so willing to give "easy," "common sense" solutions to the problem after you are in danger of being nerfed. In this case, the nerf is a done deal...but still funny. The way to safely transport good has been discussed only around 200 times in multiple threads. Every suicide gank thread has detailed it. Your jaw dropping ignorance shows you lacked the intelligence to read any of them. In your case.. the prior assessment of your as a noob was accurate. In fact "stinking nubbit" would be more accurate. SKUNK
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:14:00 - [333] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Roy Batty68 Pretty much all of it. But whatever. You are the new face of Eve. The "I Know It Alls Cause teh FOREMS told me so" crowd. The "I Knows Just what needs to be Nerfed!" Thanky CCP! Thanky for lookin out for my FAIR. Cause teh bad old gankers on the forums needed a spankin any old way. I'm just curious, have you ever ganked someone? Because if you can't gank a hauler as it aligns to warp, you fail at eve. Thank you, good bye. Yes, I've ganked haulers, in highsec no less. A couple of caracals or a handful of Kessies will do it nicely. Upgrade as needed against harder targets. The fact of the matter is, I don't see a need for changes. If you want to protect a high value load of cargo, there are PLENTY of ways to do that. Logistics is an important part of eve, and breaking the ability to go after logistics targets (even in high sec) is contrary to EVE IMO. However, I don't think they've done that yet. Just made it harder, which is ok with me. Dude, you're preachin to the choir. Turn around. She's over that way. Yes, I've suicide ganked plenty. I've also hauled billions around hisec and right by known suicide gankers. And I've never been popped once. In fact the only times I've ever been popped by another player in Eve is when I went looking for it. I enjoy the challenges other players provide me. I'm downright silly about them. And I hate to see them slowly nerfed away by dimwitted can't be arsed to think or play types. Especially the ones that come to these forums screaming for nerfs when they don't have a clue what they're talking about, they're just all worked up because someone else complained about it... yep... on the forums. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:14:00 - [334] Originally by: Cody Quinn EVE Isn't re-doing combat and really isn't changing anything except keeping the game on-track with what they wanted originally. High-sec was never meant for mass PVP, sorry, just wasn't designed that way. For you, the change may seem like nothing. For many players, it effects their game immensely. We each have our biases and pass judgement on others, and some of us may decide that that players 'enjoyment' doesn't count. As far as it never being meant for mass PvP, I'm sorry, but I disagree. EvE was originally designed WITHOUT hisec at all. It was added after the fact. And then CONCORD was buffed until it was invulnerable. And then you couldn't escape. Over time, they have steadily made hisec FAR safer. It wasn't an original design concept at all. It was added after the fact. And yes, they can definitely take it too far. Ruze Ashkor'Murkon Security File
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:14:00 - [335] Choose juicier targets now. ....adapt. "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:15:00 - [336] Originally by: Kelli Flay BTW: You guys sound just like the nano whiners. It is funny how you are so willing to give "easy," "common sense" solutions to the problem after you are in danger of being nerfed. In this case, the nerf is a done deal...but still funny. Whilst I don't fly nano, I think they have a point. And with regard to being invulnerable in hi-sec, I believe I have a point. All of the recent changes to the game have removed the scope for options. There's a steadying decrease in value to 0.0 space, low sec is even more worthless than ever. For pvp you're down to one serious option - blob. Basically, they're gradually making the game completely shit.
RagnhildR tu	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:16:00 - [337] Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 02/09/2008 20:16:57 Attacking players in Kessies, Merlins or other Frigates is not going after logistic targets, it's just players being bloody minded, to do the same thing to the same player 3 times on the bounce is definateley greifing. Being in Cruisers and double teaming whilst doing so is what will drive players away to other games where ********s aren't so common.
Tristen Orde Friendly Neighbourhood Protection Racket	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:17:00 - [338] Edited by: Tristen Orde on 02/09/2008 20:18:23 Originally by: CCP Greyscale I don't remember whether I actually used the word "grief" or not during the discussions. Alberto Gonzales
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:17:00 - [339] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Roy Batty68 Pretty much all of it. But whatever. You are the new face of Eve. The "I Know It Alls Cause teh FOREMS told me so" crowd. The "I Knows Just what needs to be Nerfed!" Thanky CCP! Thanky for lookin out for my FAIR. Cause teh bad old gankers on the forums needed a spankin any old way. I'm just curious, have you ever ganked someone? Because if you can't gank a hauler as it aligns to warp, you fail at eve. Thank you, good bye. Yes, I've ganked haulers, in highsec no less. A couple of caracals or a handful of Kessies will do it nicely. Upgrade as needed against harder targets. The fact of the matter is, I don't see a need for changes. If you want to protect a high value load of cargo, there are PLENTY of ways to do that. Logistics is an important part of eve, and breaking the ability to go after logistics targets (even in high sec) is contrary to EVE IMO. However, I don't think they've done that yet. Just made it harder, which is ok with me. Dude, you're preachin to the choir. Turn around. She's over that way. Yes, I've suicide ganked plenty. I've also hauled billions around hisec and right by known suicide gankers. And I've never been popped once. In fact the only times I've ever been popped by another player in Eve is when I went looking for it. I enjoy the challenges other players provide me. I'm downright silly about them. And I hate to see them slowly nerfed away by dimwitted can't be arsed to think or play types. Especially the ones that come to these forums screaming for nerfs when they don't have a clue what they're talking about, they're just all worked up because someone else complained about it... yep... on the forums. Actually, you can probably thank Goons for this particular nerf. I bet you were on the sidelines cheering them on when they were ganking all those Hulks? Ever heard of karma? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:18:00 - [340] Originally by: Kelli Flay Choose juicier targets now. ....adapt. Ah its the good old "adapt" argument.
Jitabug Caldari Shaolin Legacy	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:21:00 - [341] The mechanic for legitimately avoiding war declarations exists. It's called an NPC corporation. Without them we'd see more high sec PVE alliances who pay PVPers to protect them from this kind of hassle. We'd see more interaction. We'd see more politics and intrigue. People would have external goals to devote their time towards beyond getting a pimp ship. If it were my sandbox I'd make NPC corps only available within "starter" constellations and wouldn't let players use the gates leading out of them until they'd either quit to play as a "sole trader" or joined a player run corp. That way you keep the newbies safe and enrich the world politically, whilst preventing people from abusing newbie corp mechanics to scout/pirate/gangk. Leave policing of behaviour to the players. Instead, by protecting small player corps, you're simply giving people other ways to abuse the mechanics for strategic purposes.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:21:00 - [342] This is such a non-issue. As they say, adapt or die. You can still suicide gank targets... for a price. So you had better make sure it's worthwhile. What is the problem here? If the complaint is that you can no longer solo gank someone... well, that was always messed up. You shouldn't be able to solo gank anyone in highsec unless they are in a tiny no tank ship. (frig or shuttle or such) That is/was/always will be the point of concord. To make "breaking the rules" hard. (the rules being the sec status of a system) ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:28:00 - [343] Originally by: RagnhildR tu Ki An what is your problem?, what makes you so pivotal in the world of Eve, without players coming into Eve there would be no Eve. Players need to mine, mission or whatever to pay for the skills and improve their ships. If butt wipes keep on trashing strating out players there will be No New PLayersa, no new players= less cash for CCP, less cash for CCP, an in the end they call it a day, an go on to a new project. What are you doing in my pod? GTFO! What's my problem? Well, that's easy enough to answer. You. You and your ilk who migrate here from other games, expecting everything to work the same way, and when it doesn't you hold your accounts for ransom until CCP fixes things for you. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:28:00 - [344] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 02/09/2008 20:29:07 Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Kelli Flay So in order to haul anything in high sec, noobs are expected to drop what they are training to train up Transports? {which are like a 2 month train} edit: i meant high sec, not low....corrected. Who on earth wants to suicide gank a noob? " "noob" was wording it badly. Another way to put it is in order to move things around in high sec, everyone should have Transports trained? I don't think that was the dev's intentions. If you want to move low amounts of very high value goods, I think you'll find that's exactly what transports are for. What about Jihadswarm? {or whatever that was called?} Should those miners been mining in a transport instead of their Hulks? No but you can't argue that they're making money off doing it either, so all arguments against suicide ganking for profit are blown out the water. If I had more wealth in game than I do, following this patch I'd be bank rolling people to kill every non combat ship I saw in hi-sec, regardless.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:31:00 - [345] Originally by: Locke DieDrake This is such a non-issue. As they say, adapt or die. You can still suicide gank targets... for a price. So you had better make sure it's worthwhile. What is the problem here? If the complaint is that you can no longer solo gank someone... well, that was always messed up. You shouldn't be able to solo gank anyone in highsec unless they are in a tiny no tank ship. (frig or shuttle or such) That is/was/always will be the point of concord. To make "breaking the rules" hard. (the rules being the sec status of a system) No worries. I know I'll adapt. *****in about the suicide gank nerf wasn't really the momentum that carried this thread on. That was just Kelli and a few others being stupid that side tracked it. It was Greyscale basically saying that the soul of the game has changed a bit. It's subtle. But it's there. The quest for "Fair" is a far more drastic nerf to Eve than any suicide gank or nano nerf. The game being hard is what makes it good. Alot of people just don't seem to get that anymore. Things change. /shrug Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
RagnhildR tu	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:33:00 - [346] Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 02/09/2008 20:35:34 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: RagnhildR tu Ki An what is your problem?, what makes you so pivotal in the world of Eve, without players coming into Eve there would be no Eve. Players need to mine, mission or whatever to pay for the skills and improve their ships. If butt wipes keep on trashing strating out players there will be No New PLayersa, no new players= less cash for CCP, less cash for CCP, an in the end they call it a day, an go on to a new project. What's my problem? Well, that's easy enough to answer. You. You and your ilk who migrate here from other games, expecting everything to work the same way, and when it doesn't you hold your accounts for ransom until CCP fixes things for you. Ki An I played Eve 2 years ago the only reason why I was away for so long was I had some shit to sort out, I very rarely come to the forums, because you get ******s who like to be a pain in them. What are you doing in my pod? GTFO!**
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:34:00 - [347] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Kelli Flay So in order to haul anything in high sec, noobs are expected to drop what they are training to train up Transports? {which are like a 2 month train} edit: i meant high sec, not low....corrected. Who on earth wants to suicide gank a noob? " "noob" was wording it badly. Another way to put it is in order to move things around in high sec, everyone should have Transports trained? I don't think that was the dev's intentions. Nice strawman. No-one's going to gank you for the sake of a hauler-load of veldspar. But if you're moving a couple of bill worth of t2 mods about then hell yes you should be using a Blockade Runner. That's exactly what I did - right through some obvious suicide gank camps, I might add. Viator: T2 Improved Cloak Y-T8 MWD, whatever, whatever 2x nanofibre II 1x Inertial Stabiliser II 2x Low Friction Nozzle Joints Not especially hard to skill for, and completely uncatchable in hi- or lo-sec, barring lag or cat vs keyboard scenarios. Incidentally, even nasty laggy stations like Jita 4-4 can be exited perfectly safely. here's the trick: (1) have a corpmate, friend or alt in a shuttle form gang with you in the hauler (2) As soon as said accomplice sees you exit the station, he gang-warps you to a point a few hundred km in front of the station - you undock at full speed so you will instawarp before you're even lockable - then again to a safe spot. You'll be safely 5 AU from any gankers before your blackscreen clears. If that all seems like too much trouble to take for your cargo, then you didn't value it that much anyway, so why cry about losing it? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:34:00 - [348] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: RagnhildR tu Ki An what is your problem?, what makes you so pivotal in the world of Eve, without players coming into Eve there would be no Eve. Players need to mine, mission or whatever to pay for the skills and improve their ships. If butt wipes keep on trashing strating out players there will be No New PLayersa, no new players= less cash for CCP, less cash for CCP, an in the end they call it a day, an go on to a new project. What are you doing in my pod? GTFO! What's my problem? Well, that's easy enough to answer. You. You and your ilk who migrate here from other games, expecting everything to work the same way, and when it doesn't you hold your accounts for ransom until CCP fixes things for you. Are you saying if you haven't been around since day one of EvE or played a previous game before EvE, that you are not allowed to have an opinion? Can you link me to the "accounts for ransom" as well? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:35:00 - [349] Originally by: Roy Batty68 The quest for "Fair" is a far more drastic nerf to Eve than any suicide gank or nano nerf. The game being hard is what makes it good. Alot of people just don't seem to get that anymore. Things change. /shrug This.
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:37:00 - [350] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Ki An Originally by: RagnhildR tu Ki An what is your problem?, what makes you so pivotal in the world of Eve, without players coming into Eve there would be no Eve. Players need to mine, mission or whatever to pay for the skills and improve their ships. If butt wipes keep on trashing strating out players there will be No New PLayersa, no new players= less cash for CCP, less cash for CCP, an in the end they call it a day, an go on to a new project. What are you doing in my pod? GTFO! What's my problem? Well, that's easy enough to answer. You. You and your ilk who migrate here from other games, expecting everything to work the same way, and when it doesn't you hold your accounts for ransom until CCP fixes things for you. Are you saying if you haven't been around since day one of EvE or played a previous game before EvE, that you are not allowed to have an opinion? Can you link me to the "accounts for ransom" as well? No, he's saying don't expect the game to be like all the others: ridiculously easy.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:37:00 - [351] Originally by: Kelli Flay Are you saying if you haven't been around since day one of EvE or played a previous game before EvE, that you are not allowed to have an opinion? No, since I haven't been here since day 1 myself, I'm not saying that. However, it is clear that most of the whines about suicide ganks, nanos and other such things come from ex-whatever players. I bet you've got a level 70 Nightelf Rogue. Originally by: Kelli Flay Can you link me to the "accounts for ransom" as well? No need to link it. Just eve-search "ganking in empire" and you'll find hundreds of threads where the OP is threatening to quit if the game isn't changed. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:40:00 - [352] Originally by: Granmethedon III No, he's saying don't expect the game to be like all the others: ridiculously easy. I never once read a post on these boards of someone saying EvE should be just like any other game? Link? "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:41:00 - [353] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III No, he's saying don't expect the game to be like all the others: ridiculously easy. I never once read a post on these boards of someone saying EvE should be just like any other game? Link? Strawman. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:42:00 - [354] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kelli Flay Are you saying if you haven't been around since day one of EvE or played a previous game before EvE, that you are not allowed to have an opinion? No, since I haven't been here since day 1 myself, I'm not saying that. However, it is clear that most of the whines about suicide ganks, nanos and other such things come from ex-whatever players. I bet you've got a level 70 Nightelf Rogue. Originally by: Kelli Flay Can you link me to the "accounts for ransom" as well? No need to link it. Just eve-search "ganking in empire" and you'll find hundreds of threads where the OP is threatening to quit if the game isn't changed. And yet strangely these people who make such an issue of the very fragility of their loyalty are the ones we're supposed to bend over backwards for. I say call their bluff. Will they really quit? Some might, and good riddance. But I bet 90% or more will stay. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:44:00 - [355] Originally by: Malcanis And yet strangely these people who make such an issue of the very fragility of their loyalty are the ones we're supposed to bend over backwards for. I say call their bluff. Will they really quit? Some might, and good riddance. But I bet 90% or more will stay. Strange, I was thinking the same thing but from the other side. And I see Ki An hasn't contracted me his stuff since he is leaving, even after I asked so nicely ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:44:00 - [356] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kelli Flay I bet you've got a level 70 Nightelf Rogue. I bet you still live in mom and dad's basement? See, i can throw around unfounded stereotypes around as well.
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance SOLAR WING	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:44:00 - [357] High sec not total sec. Eve should never have a 100% safe area
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:45:00 - [358] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III No, he's saying don't expect the game to be like all the others: ridiculously easy. I never once read a post on these boards of someone saying EvE should be just like any other game? Link? Strawman. I get it now. Anything you cannot answer for = strawman "The National Weather Bureau is forecasting a thunderstorm of failure."
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:45:00 - [359] Originally by: Kelli Flay Originally by: Granmethedon III No, he's saying don't expect the game to be like all the others: ridiculously easy. I never once read a post on these boards of someone saying EvE should be just like any other game? Link? You're in one. You've said it yourself, implicitly. In case you're not sure what that word means, here's a handy link:- http://www.wordreference.com/definition/implicitly
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:45:00 - [360] Edited by: NeoTheo on 02/09/2008 20:46:32 Originally by: Deviana Sevidon EVE needs the PvPer/ Pirates /Gankers / Griefers but also the Producers /Traders / Miners / Bears and one style of playing this game, is not better then the other. no its not better being one style or another, but it is a VERY difficult balance and one that hangs on a knife edge. mess with it to much and sooner or later a house of cards falls down. at the moment some people get burned, that sux. but thats is also what rules. Every time you sell something on the market you PvP. i dont see people getting punished for playing smart there; thats because "the market works like that". the truth is when you go outside station it works like this, sooner or later, one way or another... boom. see what i did there? managed a paragraph and said nothing. Dark Materials Linkage

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