Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kenji Kikuta
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 12:05:00 -
[61]
HARD EVIDENCE!
With relevant skills at level 5 in combination with ships yielding a 10% flight velocity bonus per level, missile flight velocities for the fastest missiles per class are:
_______________T1/T2precision____________T2Fury______ Light missiles____8473_m/s________________4500_m/s____ Heavy missiles___8473_m/s________________6750_m/s____ Cruise missiles___8473_m/s________________3937_m/s____
Regardless of any other missile parameters, enemy ships belonging to the same class as the targeting ship cannot go faster. If they do, missile damage is equal to zero.
This is why either missiles, ship speeds, or both, have to be reviewed completely.
Not to mention other weapon systems not being able to track/hit fast ships of the same class.
WTF ppl, how hard is it to understand that the current situation is totally ****ed up.
|
roq deelim
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 15:24:00 -
[62]
Quote: Not to mention other weapon systems not being able to track/hit fast ships of the same class.
with turrets its even harder to hit fast ships - in most cases the naonships are zapping trough your falloff range withing few seconds..EVEN IF you manage to place few hits, your enemy will leave your optimals in a blink of an eye..
|
Gmoorick
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 19:44:00 -
[63]
Don't forget to nerf turrets tracking, to burst frig and inties surviveability. Its impossible to tacke pulse zealot in intie flying 9km/s
|
Captain Narmio
Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.09.12 15:25:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kenji Kikuta
_______________T1/T2precision____________T2Fury______ Light missiles____8473_m/s________________4500_m/s____ Heavy missiles___8473_m/s________________6750_m/s____ Cruise missiles___8473_m/s________________3937_m/s____
Regardless of any other missile parameters, enemy ships belonging to the same class as the targeting ship cannot go faster. If they do, missile damage is equal to zero.
As much as I agree with you that something needs to be done, this statement is utterly false. It only applies in cases where the target ship never stops MWDing at full speed. And if you believe that happens all the time in every fight, I would call into question your level of skirmish combat expertise.
The truth of the matter is that, for any ship that needs to slow down to do damage or cannot sustain its MWD due to capacitor issues, that huge stream of missiles behind you supposedly doing "no damage" are a suspended death sentence. The second you slow down or cap out, you take ALL those volleys at once. That's enough to alpha a lot of small ships.
It may look to the drake/raven pilot like they're being ineffective, but having missiles in the air chasing someone is an immense battlefield control tool. The target's options are incredibly limited.
|
Satch Boogie
STK Scientific N.A.S.A
|
Posted - 2008.09.12 17:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Gmoorick Don't forget to nerf turrets tracking, to burst frig and inties surviveability. Its impossible to tacke pulse zealot in intie flying 9km/s
Ignore this person. He seems to think that an interceptor should be able to tackle a bigger ship with zero danger of taking any damage himself. Turret tracking is slow enough as it is. Also his intie shouldn't be capable of 9km/s. That needs nerfing. |
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 12:08:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kenji Kikuta fastest missiles per class are:
_______________T1/T2precision____________T2Fury______ Light missiles____8473_m/s________________4500_m/s____ Heavy missiles___8473_m/s________________6750_m/s____ Cruise missiles___8473_m/s________________3937_m/s____
Who cares about missile speed or tracking when you should be tackling a ship to kill it anyway, and if its tackled/webbed its slowed and it dies. Screwed up would be being able to hit and speed fitted ships without them being tackled not the other way around.
PVP is not ratting and should require tackle to kill not just alpha dmg or dps.
|
Gmoorick
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 08:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Satch Boogie
Ignore this person. He seems to think that an interceptor should be able to tackle a bigger ship with zero danger of taking any damage himself. Turret tracking is slow enough as it is. Also his intie shouldn't be capable of 9km/s. That needs nerfing.
If i'm not mistaken, this nanonerf was intended to boost frig-class ships useability, by nerfing speed of bigger ships. But as they nerfed speed of inties, they are now thinking about nerfing missiles. And no, turret tracking on some hacs is not slow enough. Inties flying 5km/s go boom almost right after locking.
|
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 09:10:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gmoorick
If i'm not mistaken, this nanonerf was intended to boost frig-class ships useability, by nerfing speed of bigger ships. But as they nerfed speed of inties, they are now thinking about nerfing missiles. And no, turret tracking on some hacs is not slow enough. Inties flying 5km/s go boom almost right after locking.
It was all about ccp being lazy gits, instead of just adding counters like BS sized webs and other things they just swung the nerf bat at speed without understanding how much it would **** over every smaller ship in the game and in some cases larger ones.
|
Shanna Hephestus
|
Posted - 2008.09.14 17:31:00 -
[69]
thing is missiles CAN be shot down, you use defender missiles.... they need a buff honestly but it is possible to take them out
|
Meina Lamia
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 04:44:00 -
[70]
I think a big issue is that ships really don't have the HPs they really need at all.
Small ships have such low hit points, it leaves very little room for CCP to play with Tracking, Damage, etc.
So you have ended in a situation where you NEED speed just to AVOID alpha strikes, etc. You could have much lower speeds if ships had a much higher survivablility do to a much larger base HPs.
Even scale wise, I think Cruiser down to Intys are scaled way off in compaired to BCs, and BS. Instead of each ship being 1 size smaller, its like they are actually 2 sizes smaller compaired to each other so it just compounds the speed/tracking issues.
At least imo that is.
|
|
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 11:23:00 -
[71]
Edited by: lecrotta on 15/09/2008 11:33:15
Originally by: Meina Lamia I think a big issue is that ships really don't have the HPs they really need at all.
Small ships have such low hit points, it leaves very little room for CCP to play with Tracking, Damage, etc.
So you have ended in a situation where you NEED speed just to AVOID alpha strikes, etc. You could have much lower speeds if ships had a much higher survivability do to a much larger base HPs.
So you want to now give small ships enough hp to be survivable when they tackle in gang fights because speed cannot help them if the stupid nerf goes through?.
How many hp cos in a say 20 man gang (quite small by today's standards) the alpha strike is gonna be in the thousands.....
So this silly nerf so far has made every ship upto cruiser sized a waste of time to fly in combat, its made a lot of BS useless in close range combat, its forced ccp to rethink tracking and missiles, it is making ppl think tacklers need more hp just to survive....ect ect ect.
Perhaps soon you will finally come to terms with how necessary nano is in today's eve and use youR SELF PROCLAIMED TACTICAL GENIUS to combat it like the real pvpers in eve do in stead of crying for a nerf and then needing to change every thing else breaks cos of it.....
PS: POST WITH YOUR MAIN I WANNA SEE YOUR UBER PVP STATS.
|
Murina
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 12:45:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Murina on 15/09/2008 12:53:19
Originally by: Meina Lamia I think a big issue is that ships really don't have the HPs they really need at all.
Small ships have such low hit points, it leaves very little room for CCP to play with Tracking, Damage, etc.
So you have ended in a situation where you NEED speed just to AVOID alpha strikes, etc. You could have much lower speeds if ships had a much higher survivability do to a much larger base HPs.
You go on about skill and tactics and yet your answer to the fact that nerfing nano will make small ships pointless death traps is to increase its hit points (to what bc or bs ammount?) so it can sit still and get shot at for longer???.
Ok mr war gamer, super tactician i think you have taken up and wasted enough space and time on this forum with your silly ideas and your idiotic solutions to the problems that they would cause.
Im sure in your mind Sun Tzu himself would kiss your feet but that Is the only place your moronic ideas are of any use..in your own head.
|
Beltantis Torrence
|
Posted - 2008.09.15 20:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vaal Erit We told you the nano-whiners were by caldari missile pilots with no clue to how eve mechanics worked and we told you that your anti-missile ewar is laughably broken.
Speed was broken before. I think even Caldari pilots will be happier with a sig radius MWD change and still landing some damage rather than targets being entirely immune. Long story short, something has to change with speed and simultaneously something has to change with missiles such that missiles do some damage against targets of the size they're meant for and yet they aren't useless in small gang fights where everyone is immune to them and yet aren't the 'I Win' button against turret ships.
|
Meina Lamia
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 07:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 15/09/2008 14:05:49
Originally by: Meina Lamia I think a big issue is that ships really don't have the HPs they really need at all.
Small ships have such low hit points, it leaves very little room for CCP to play with Tracking, Damage, etc.
So you have ended in a situation where you NEED speed just to AVOID alpha strikes, etc. You could have much lower speeds if ships had a much higher survivability do to a much larger base HPs.
You go on about skill and tactics and yet your answer to the fact that nerfing nano will make small ships pointless death traps is to increase their hit points (to what bc or bs amount?).... so it can sit still and get shot at for longer???.
Ok mr war gamer, super tactician i think you have taken up and wasted enough space and time on this forum with your silly ideas and your idiotic solutions to the problems ppl point out to you that your idiotic ideas would cause.
Im sure in your mind Sun Tzu himself would kiss your feet and bow to your genius but that is the only place your moronic ideas are of any use.....in your own mind.
Were you just born a waste or was this just a goal?
It all goes hand in hand, if you change one thing, more then likely you have to change others to compensate for the new effects. This should not be rocket science. EVE is NOT the first game that has had to do that or hell real life for that matter.
I am not sure how you fail so much, maybe playing to much X-Box or something. Get beyond Joy Stick Syndrom, go play some other tactical games out there and see where they are balanced and what starts to break them. And when you come back you will see things in a new light.
Till then, all I see in you is a another snotty nosed kid who wants easy kills.
|
Murina
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 08:06:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Meina Lamia
Till then, all I see in you is a another snotty nosed kid who wants easy kills.
Right right your crying about nano and trying to get it nerfed to make the game harder......yea right of course you are:lol:]
|
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 10:09:00 -
[76]
Edited by: lebrata on 16/09/2008 10:13:50 Do you actually have the slightest idea what you actually are saying with this???????:-
Originally by: Meina Lamia I think a big issue is that ships really don't have the HPs they really need at all. Small ships have such low hit points, it leaves very little room for CCP to play with Tracking, Damage, etc. So you have ended in a situation where you NEED speed just to AVOID alpha strikes, etc.
So your saying that Hacs need to be speed nerfed because they are overpowered and can fly as fast to avoid most dmg but have lots more hp as a buffer.
And your solution is to nerf them to uselessness and then to increase the hp on inties (to what hac level????) along with the fact that small guns have better tracking.
So with your moronic idea we are losing fast nano hacs cos they can go fast and have big hp buffers, but you want to replace them with fast nano inties that your gonna boost to hac level hp to help them survive.
Congratulations you have just brought pointless and thoughtless stupidity to a all new level.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 16:00:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 16/09/2008 16:04:02
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
Speed was broken before. I think even Caldari pilots will be happier with a sig radius MWD change and still landing some damage rather than targets being entirely immune. Long story short, something has to change with speed and simultaneously something has to change with missiles such that missiles do some damage against targets of the size they're meant for and yet they aren't useless in small gang fights where everyone is immune to them and yet aren't the 'I Win' button against turret ships.
You see and you still dont get differences between weapon types.
NOW: 1. i can get immunity to missiles by getting hi speed 2. i can get immunity to guns by outtracking them, staying out of range, TDing them
after nano nerf: 1. - 2. i can get immunity to guns by staying out of range, TDing them
Thus missiles become superior weapon without any form of counter.
EDIT: o yea that was for weapons of same size so med guns - heavy missiles, large guns large missiles etc. And yes i know torps have reduced range so they can be outranged, BUT hams cannot (80+km with javelins), same for rockets (javelin rockets almost outrange small beams with aurora - and they are close range weapons).
|
Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 16:19:00 -
[78]
why try to fix something that isnt broken....
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Mangetout Rodney
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 18:58:00 -
[79]
Why not fust limit the amount of "speed" mods per class.... ie..1 for frig size...2 for cruiser size and 3 for bs.... But let them rig as per current situation....
Flame away...rarely post but just fed up of peeps moanin nerf this n nerf that!
|
Dungheap
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 21:12:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Red Thunder why try to fix something that isnt broken....
because players that weren't around for first missile nerf (remember the one that doubled launcher grid, made speed tanking possible, and gave us some nifty skills to learn to get damage back where it was..) are faced with missiles again being an effective weapon. and they cry about it. loudly.
gm's stood idle while ever increasing speeds of even large ships made missiles ineffective. the speed changes are aimed at the few ships that can go 5k+ and have near immunity from missiles.
if you're going to make changes to missiles, fine. put them all on the table, and fix the many things that are unbalanced or don't make sense. we've been waiting. about three years now.
|
|
lebrata
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.09.16 22:04:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Dungheap
Originally by: Red Thunder why try to fix something that isnt broken....
because players that weren't around for first missile nerf (remember the one that doubled launcher grid, made speed tanking possible, and gave us some nifty skills to learn to get damage back where it was..) are faced with missiles again being an effective weapon. and they cry about it. loudly.
gm's stood idle while ever increasing speeds of even large ships made missiles ineffective. the speed changes are aimed at the few ships that can go 5k+ and have near immunity from missiles.
if you're going to make changes to missiles, fine. put them all on the table, and fix the many things that are unbalanced or don't make sense. we've been waiting. about three years now.
Why is it always ppl claiming missiles this and missiles that when gunships have just as much difficulty tracking speeding ships as missiles do.
But the fact is that if a missile ship has missiles in the air and the target gets webbed then all those pre fired missiles hit while the gunships fired shots are utterly wasted and gone.
This nerf is not about bringing balance its about removing the need to tackle and making pvp more like pve so the skilless and lazy do not need to learn and improve.
|
Qin Tzu
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 03:56:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sheamis Kast Character limit
Besides your stance on Amarr laser ships, I actually agree with you a whole lot. I think it would make for better gameplay if the Gallente had the highest top speed, but poor agility; much like a charging Rhino. The Minmatar should be the second fastest with the greatest agility, allowing them out maneuver the Gallente blaster boats for some time, and perform tighter orbits against the Amarr laser ships. The Caldari should be the bricks of space with their strong tanks and best range.
The Amarr Laser ships should be somewhere in the middle of everything, being not much slower or agile than the Minmatar. Once they are plated up (like Amarr ships have to be due to the laser cap use) they should still be somewhat more agile then the Gallente ships allowing them to dodge the initial charge and make use of their range benefits.
I just wanted to point out that I believe the Minmatar should have top speed and agility for the reason already stated. In order to be competitive they have to control range, they do not have the tank or the dmg for us to let another race control range.
gallente on the other hand should probably be third slowest just because of the massive dmg and good tanks they have. Also on many of their ships drones are their main weapon type. It would not be right to allow that drone ship to close before the minmatar can get away and determine the range the fight will take place at. They would be able to tear them up with neutrons as well as drones.
hope I make a valid point, but I'm tired and probably not thinking at my highest level lol
|
Laerise
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:46:00 -
[83]
Quin, topspeed does not matter if you can simply change direction and have the mega rush right past your tempest, which leaves him so nicely open for some more volleys of AC/arty fire with low trans (aproach + overshooting ends mostly in low trans, thus better and more hits).
I must say I like that split a lot.
Caldari are slowest and maybe a tad more agile than amarr (shield weighs nothing compared to armour), they don't need to control range (much), they just have range.
Amarr are slower and most likely least agile, lots of plates and huge capacitor banks, they do not need to control range that much, they still have good range (and better damage than caldari, torps being an exception).
Galente are the Rhinos, rush in, web/scram/blaster away, might even make web drones more apealing as they would also slow the enemies turning speed -> evasion speed.
Minmatar are the fastest and most agile, they have less damage and tank though, having to make use of their agility and speed to evade damage or boost their own. ( kiting/keeping range/coasting or coasting with the goal to zero trans at your own optimum range while staying out of enemy optimal)
|
Spurty
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 21:59:00 -
[84]
weee emo rage discovered in thread!!
Many ships have missile slots.
They can just nano about dishing out DPS avoiding the ANTI-NANO-MISSILES by using their own missile systems on the slow tracking ships they are circling.
If this isn't true, explain the fact the CROW is so popular? Unhittable and max dps from 30km, win win.
Clearly nothing wrong with this picture;)
Then there are the Ishtars that can throw out 5 large weapons while they run to a safe distance. Again, max dps and full speed!
CCP should care when something they designed (ANTI-NANO-MISSILES for example) *does not* work as 'intended'.
Sooner see missiles doing 10x the speed than speed being nerfed mind you. Taking forever exiting a bubble is more painful than a missile or two up the tail pipe before I warp away and rethink. Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.09.20 09:44:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 20/09/2008 09:44:46 when first time on sisi come speed narf caldari was mosta agile and wtf powned smaller ships in 3 volleys ;] Forgot about draeks 1 volley poping afs too. Missiles seems to be balnaced this way?^^
|
Flawliss
Gallente Pilots of True Potential
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 05:46:00 -
[86]
With all the time we were promised to be able to test these changes i notice SIS is still on the TQ build, and i havent been able to connect to Multi a while.
So whats the diagnosis doc? Should we just wait till TQ patch day at this rate?
|
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 09:28:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Flawliss With all the time we were promised to be able to test these changes i notice SIS is still on the TQ build, and i havent been able to connect to Multi a while.
So whats the diagnosis doc? Should we just wait till TQ patch day at this rate?
Virtually every report from both servers after the nerf were full of problems that it created in other slower combat scenarios, along with the fact that in gang fights the smaller ships in eve like cruisers and down melted instantly when primaried.
|
DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 19:01:00 -
[88]
Originally by: lecrotta along with the fact that in gang fights the smaller ships in eve like cruisers and down melted instantly when primaried.
Well then we shouldn't have been in the same server
________________ God is my Wingman |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 19:14:00 -
[89]
Edited by: lecrotta on 22/09/2008 19:16:12
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: lecrotta Virtually every report from both servers after the nerf were full of problems that it created in other slower combat scenarios let alone fast ones, along with the fact that in gang fights the smaller ships in eve like cruisers and down melted instantly when primaried.
Well then we shouldn't have been in the same server
I think the whole of eve is waiting to hear your fit on a cruiser or smaller that can (without speed) tank 20 ships and not melt from the alpha let alone survive any sort of time enough to be useful.
|
DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 20:35:00 -
[90]
Originally by: lecrotta Edited by: lecrotta on 22/09/2008 19:56:49
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: lecrotta Virtually every report from both servers after the nerf were full of problems that it created in other slower combat scenarios let alone fast ones, along with the fact that in gang fights the smaller ships in eve like cruisers and down melted instantly when primaried.
Well then we shouldn't have been in the same server
Do you mean couldn't???, and if so i think the whole of eve is waiting to hear your fit on a cruiser or smaller that can (without speed) tank 20 ships and not melt from the alpha let alone survive any sort of time enough to be useful. Cos in every test we did even with ewar and logistic support small ships like cruisers and down were virtually worthless. Unless you count the time it took the hostile gang to lock target, fire, rinse and repeat.
When a ship is primaried by 20 other ships is dead. Nanoed or not Nanoed. Or do you think that every people not flying nanos can only use missile boats? Missile boats are not indicated for PVP in these nanoed times, actually people using missile boats/blaster ships/short range stuff, to fight nanos are asking for a big beating . But insta damage ships will do their job pretty fast specially against ships that only trust their speed to fight(run).
Speed is not the only counter to blobs. There are plenty of other anti blob tactics. But people tend to say that only speed can save them from the blob...
________________ God is my Wingman |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |