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Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
146
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Posted - 2012.03.28 18:53:00 -
[91] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:
I guess I don't see many lazor/hybrid boats or boats with active tanks sporting a few nuets in thier highslots. Nor do I see many fleet/ med. gang boats that operate outside of 12/24km using them. Maybe you do though.
What I see is a lot of solo/small gang buffered capless weapon toting boats being forced to use them as frig defense. I also see a fair number of frig 1v1 types in buffered capless weapon platforms (again) using them.
I see hybrid/laser boats sporting neuts all the time, and look no further than the ishtar, vaga, or cynabal if you want examples of neuts on ships that operate outside of neut range. Yes, you do eventually get to the point where there isn't really much use in fielding neuts, but then once you get into the really big fleets ewar of any kind tends to be lackluster (especially against caps, where neuts are still useful compared to other forms of ewar).
So yes, there are plenty of situations where neuts still get fielded outside of their ideal use bubble, especially since nearly all tackle has to operate in neut range.
Zircon Dasher wrote: Ah so even IF nuets are OP you agree that reflection is a better mechanic than what is currently available. Since nuets could not be OP if the counters were effective.
Yes. The idea itself is incredibly stupid, but since its usefulness would be limited to breaking something that is itself broken (cap battery changes would have no effect on any other area of gameplay) then it IS the lesser of 2 evils. There are certainly better ways to go about fixing neuts (and cap batteries) but as it stands there should be SOMETHING done to neuts to limit their use as the go-to module for spare highslots.
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Dirk Culliford
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.28 18:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
I actually like the idea of cap resistance, or protected cap or otherwise. Currently if you're neuted you generally go from having the ability to do everything to being dead in the water. This would pull in a tactical decision, do i leave my reps on to outlast him? Guns to out dps him? Prop mod to try escape? You can't do everything but it doesn't leave you powerless, and your skill/decisions then direct the outcome |
Torothin
Wrecking Shots Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
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Posted - 2012.03.28 19:03:00 -
[93] - Quote
Are you kidding me? Before he NOSF nerf the Curse was awesome. The nosf nerf hit and peopel adapted to neutralizers and now this change? What is the point? The curse is a neut boat. Hate to break it to CCP but the Curse is not a ship everyone and their mother flies. This ship takes a lot of skill to fly and is also very skill intensive.
This nerf makes 0 sense what so ever. You hurt the Curse when you did the Nosf nerf. You will kill the Curse if this change is actually true. Such horse **** right here people. it's not like the Curse is a pwn mobile. It doesn't dish out insane DPS. What gives CCP. This is crap! |
Lili Lu
191
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Posted - 2012.03.28 19:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
Guys Guys! This had to be done because of all the Curse and Pilgrim alts ruining one-on-one and small gang pvp. I mean come on. People are always running out of cap in an instant once one of these assholes decides to bring a neut boat and his neuts are applied.
And why should any frig be fitting a small nos in one of its high slots, or a cap booster in a mid. Nobody does that nor should they. Everyone has a spare mid though to fit eccm on their tackling frigs which pretty much give them immunity to ecm boats. One eccm and your frig can laugh at ecm, but how long will one cap booster or one small nos keep you powered once a medium or heavy neut cycles on you.
There is no design problem with ecm, but there is rampant alt use with neut boats that have no meaningful counters. How many times has your small gang gf been ruined because one neut boat comes in and instantly neuts out 4 of your gang mates from 50 or more km away? How many times has a great one-on-one been ruined when the other guy starts dying and he decloaks his Pilgrim alt within 10km of your fast moving engagement? It happens all the time and this is just unacceptible and why CCP has to nerf neuts and nuet boats.
Nuets have no downsides for your ship either. I've seen it too many times to number where some fellow has unlimited cap to run his neuts. Great now everyone loses cap but that ****** can keep neuting all day. It's totally ruining small scale pvp.
So STFU this was a much needed change to nerf into the stone age a class of ships that are ruining the game. And about time for cap batteries. What the hell did you want to make them relevant a small buff to the cap amount provided and a small reduction in fitting costs? How the hell is that going to fix them? No, CCP will now wisely fix these two enormous problems with one simple change to game mechanics that will require very little new coding.
STFU you ******* neut alts GTFO |
Torothin
Wrecking Shots Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
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Posted - 2012.03.28 21:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Guys Guys! This had to be done because of all the Curse and Pilgrim alts ruining one-on-one and small gang pvp. I mean come on. People are always running out of cap in an instant once one of these assholes decides to bring a neut boat and his neuts are applied.
And why should any frig be fitting a small nos in one of its high slots, or a cap booster in a mid. Nobody does that nor should they. Everyone has a spare mid though to fit eccm on their tackling frigs which pretty much give them immunity to ecm boats. One eccm and your frig can laugh at ecm, but how long will one cap booster or one small nos keep you powered once a medium or heavy neut cycles on you.
There is no design problem with ecm, but there is rampant alt use with neut boats that have no meaningful counters. How many times has your small gang gf been ruined because one neut boat comes in and instantly neuts out 4 of your gang mates from 50 or more km away? How many times has a great one-on-one been ruined when the other guy starts dying and he decloaks his Pilgrim alt within 10km of your fast moving engagement? It happens all the time and this is just unacceptible and why CCP has to nerf neuts and nuet boats.
Nuets have no downsides for your ship either. I've seen it too many times to number where some fellow has unlimited cap to run his neuts. Great now everyone loses cap but that ****** can keep neuting all day. It's totally ruining small scale pvp.
So STFU this was a much needed change to nerf into the stone age a class of ships that are ruining the game. And about time for cap batteries. What the hell did you want to make them relevant a small buff to the cap amount provided and a small reduction in fitting costs? How the hell is that going to fix them? No, CCP will now wisely fix these two enormous problems with one simple change to game mechanics that will require very little new coding.
STFU you ******* neut alts GTFO
If this is serious. Learn 2 play!
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Lili Lu
192
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Posted - 2012.03.28 21:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
Torothin wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Guys Guys! This had to be done because of all the Curse and Pilgrim alts ruining one-on-one and small gang pvp. I mean come on. People are always running out of cap in an instant once one of these assholes decides to bring a neut boat and his neuts are applied.
And why should any frig be fitting a small nos in one of its high slots, or a cap booster in a mid. Nobody does that nor should they. Everyone has a spare mid though to fit eccm on their tackling frigs which pretty much give them immunity to ecm boats. One eccm and your frig can laugh at ecm, but how long will one cap booster or one small nos keep you powered once a medium or heavy neut cycles on you.
There is no design problem with ecm, but there is rampant alt use with neut boats that have no meaningful counters. How many times has your small gang gf been ruined because one neut boat comes in and instantly neuts out 4 of your gang mates from 50 or more km away? How many times has a great one-on-one been ruined when the other guy starts dying and he decloaks his Pilgrim alt within 10km of your fast moving engagement? It happens all the time and this is just unacceptible and why CCP has to nerf neuts and nuet boats.
Nuets have no downsides for your ship either. I've seen it too many times to number where some fellow has unlimited cap to run his neuts. Great now everyone loses cap but that ****** can keep neuting all day. It's totally ruining small scale pvp.
So STFU this was a much needed change to nerf into the stone age a class of ships that are ruining the game. And about time for cap batteries. What the hell did you want to make them relevant a small buff to the cap amount provided and a small reduction in fitting costs? How the hell is that going to fix them? No, CCP will now wisely fix these two enormous problems with one simple change to game mechanics that will require very little new coding.
STFU you ******* neut alts GTFO If this is serious. Learn 2 play! OMG, are you really in TEST? |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1227
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Posted - 2012.03.28 21:35:00 -
[97] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Torothin wrote:Quote:
STFU you ******* neut alts GTFO
If this is serious. Learn 2 play! OMG, are you really in TEST?
He's too dumb to catch the most blatant sarcasm, so probably yes :) morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
Jiliana Greenfist
United Mining And Distribution
0
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
I'm all for a neut nerf, anything to make active tanking a little more viable. Aren't the rest of you bored with buffer-tanked everything?
Of course, chance-based mechanics are horrible and reflecting back onto a neuting ship is going to be irrelevant when they've got an injector anyway.
But still, it was pretty funny reading about how Neut vs cap injector is totally balanced yet oh noes your neuting ship that's using a cap booster might get counter-neuted omg Amarr shafted again! If it really were balanced, the whiny outcry wouldn't be this extreme. After all, you've supposedly got exactly the thing it takes to counter neutralizers. Right? |
Daniel L'Siata
Echelon Conflict Resolution. Psychotic Tendencies.
92
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:19:00 -
[99] - Quote
Just saying, even if a Capacitor Battery caused this effect...you still have to fit one...and they're awful... |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:45:00 -
[100] - Quote
"Oh em gee! Everyone and their cousin uses NOS! Nerf!" "Oh noes! Everyone and their grandmother uses damps! Nerf!"
Sound familiar? How about you people go back to bitching about ECM. Neuts have counters that are effective at their job of countering AND useful outside of said counter. Neuts are effective, but they aren't op. Titans, tengus, drakes, hurricanes, ecm, supercarriers, afk cloaking, and now neuts? Jesus, go back to hello ******* kitty online you pansies. Jesus. |
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Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jiliana Greenfist wrote:I'm all for a neut nerf, anything to make active tanking a little more viable. Aren't the rest of you bored with buffer-tanked everything?
Of course, chance-based mechanics are horrible and reflecting back onto a neuting ship is going to be irrelevant when they've got an injector anyway.
But still, it was pretty funny reading about how Neut vs cap injector is totally balanced yet oh noes your neuting ship that's using a cap booster might get counter-neuted omg Amarr shafted again! If it really were balanced, the whiny outcry wouldn't be this extreme. After all, you've supposedly got exactly the thing it takes to counter neutralizers. Right? Active tanks will still be ****. |
MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings DSM FOUNDATION
13
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Posted - 2012.03.29 02:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
I have heard rumblings about this change, I heard it was going to involve a boost to Nosferatu's as well. But that may have just been the grapevine... Not sure what to think about this. On the one hand it will be good for the solo pilot as being neuted in most of the ships I fly is horrendously painful, on the other my poor ashimmu!!! >.< On a one man mission against asshatery!-á |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.03.30 02:02:00 -
[103] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:I have heard rumblings about this change, I heard it was going to involve a boost to Nosferatu's as well. But that may have just been the grapevine... Not sure what to think about this. On the one hand it will be good for the solo pilot as being neuted in most of the ships I fly is horrendously painful, on the other my poor ashimmu!!! >.<
ANY ewar used against a solo pilot is horrendously painful. So, let's just remove it all from the game, eh? And titans. And drakes. And suicide ganking. We'll all just fly one ship, no pvp, and everyone starts with max SP. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
429
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Posted - 2012.03.30 04:05:00 -
[104] - Quote
i think its because its the only highslot EW. it seems any ship with a spare slot uses a neut. but i don't pvp much so idk |
Lyl'hyan
Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis
3
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Posted - 2012.03.30 06:54:00 -
[105] - Quote
What if they made neuts less efficient per se, but gave better bonuses to the Curse, Bhaal, etc.
This way it would be less obvious and useful to fit neuts on a cane, but the bonused neutboats would stay as they are (ie. balanced). |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
384
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Posted - 2012.03.30 07:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:i think its because its the only highslot EW. it seems any ship with a spare slot uses a neut. but i don't pvp much so idk
This has a lot of merit to it.
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
244
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Posted - 2012.03.30 07:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Got to admit I found this completely crazy.
It makes the pilgrim completely unflyable - it was difficult enough as it was with no range bonus.
The Lach gets a range bonus to point. The cloaky version Arazu also gets the range bonus. Same with the minmatar variants.
Why is it different to the curse/pilgrim? The pilgrim if anything has even less tank than the curse and it's obviously not going to be an up close and personal kind of ship (no tank no real speed or agility to it).. I find a lot of the t2 stuff currently just expensive targets. Would love to see this change.
Devs need to actually think about this **** before deciding to implement.. It would help if they played the game more themselves. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Zso Garro
8th Legion Investment Firm
0
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Posted - 2012.03.30 13:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
This just in, all pvpers who can fit guns in their highs, fit guns in their highs. Its a weapon, people use them against you to win fights. It falls under the same restrains as a regular weapon, if not more (no fall off, only optimal range). Use your MWD and get away before your cap is gone, use a boost to make them waste their time neuting you, web him and ab away or slow boat out of range (only like 12km for any ship but the curse)
So yeah, complaining about neuts in a ship that isnt a specialized drain ship is silly, If its viable enough that everybody wants one, but not op that people ignore their guns for them like in the old days, then its working as intended imo.
As for nerfing specailized drain ships, dunno seems kinda of silly. ECM is countered by ECCM, Tracking computers for disruptors, warp stabs for points, and cap boosters for neuts. Seems like its fine for me. ECM doesnt randomly jam themselves and lose all their locks?
p.s wishing or fitting neuts to highs isn't necessarily saying neuts are op so much that we don't want missiles in a gun boat.
Limvala Adur wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Limvala Adur wrote:This isn't good because? Neuts, for their impact on a fight, have NO drawbacks what so ever. You simply have the ability to neut down a ship, without giving it any though. Let's put it this way: what happens to Curse when its capacitor runs out of juice? You can't use any of modules that keep Curse alive. - You can't use neuts - You can't use tracking disruptors - You can't use MWD/AB And what happens to basically any ship in the game when a random curse warps at 30 or so and practically shuts down everything a ship can do? That fun for the non-curse players? What about active tanking? Why should people watch it on videos and enjoy it, but simply don't want to waste ISK on it, because Neuts are SO widespread? You must agree on this. ALL PVP SHIPS with free highs fit Neuts/wish they can fit neuts. That's saying something right there. |
Triiniity
0utbreak Outbreak.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.30 14:35:00 -
[109] - Quote
Im just glad that we wont see anymore of those OP pilgirm blops that you see all the time |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
299
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:13:00 -
[110] - Quote
This thread needs more whine. Nos is getting buffed. A smart pilot of any specialized ship will simply revisit his or her mix of nuets/nos. |
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Andrea Griffin
215
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
Chance-based effects are poo in general. CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
14
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Posted - 2012.03.31 04:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
% chance to reflect is stupid. % immunity is stupid.
the only thing i can see NOT being stupid is for the 150 cap (or whatever) that the battery gives being immune (cause its in the battery, see?) and that doesnt help much.
TBH, the only use ive ever found for the damn things was fitting a PVE myrm that could perma an AB and 3 MARs. Let me be the first to say how dumb that fit was (yes. it used frigate ACs. and had no fittings open.) |
Jerick Ludhowe
Purification of Eden XIN DOA'ED
59
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Posted - 2012.03.31 12:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
Silas Shaw wrote:% chance to reflect is stupid. % immunity is stupid.
the only thing i can see NOT being stupid is for the 150 cap (or whatever) that the battery gives being immune (cause its in the battery, see?) and that doesnt help much.
TBH, the only use ive ever found for the damn things was fitting a PVE myrm that could perma an AB and 3 MARs. Let me be the first to say how dumb that fit was (yes. it used frigate ACs. and had no fittings open.)
So an immune pool of cap enabling a tackler or whomever to perma tackle is a good idea but a % resistance to the effects of nuets is not?
It's official, we are not playing the same game at all.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
97
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Posted - 2012.03.31 13:20:00 -
[114] - Quote
I think the whole 'roll a dice' should be scrapped from this concept completely. It should be much better if cap batteries give a resistance to nos&neuts. Not some totally 'hey what would be cool' reflecting of the effects. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
0
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Posted - 2012.03.31 13:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:There's no issues with how neuts work currently. CCP, stop being silly mmk?
your brainfart stinks alot |
Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
339
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Chance-based effects are poo in general.
This.
On the note of chance based effects; why nerf neuts yet leave ECM exactly how it is? Are they intent on making Falcons the only recon worth even considering?
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zero9300
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 13:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
You are in the solo fight of your life. A dozen home defense nerds in pots and pans are trying to save the 3 ratting tengus, jump freighter, and wyvern you just tackled--strangely in the same asteroid belt. As you burn to split up the arriving gang, a tackle rifter lands a scram just as a falcon decloaks. By some divine providence, the falcon landed out of ECM range, leaving the rifter's bare, succulent rear naked to your neuts
Cycle by cycle goes by and the afterburning HAM feroxes and autocannon prophecies begin to approach long point range--the rifter is holding scram--your eyes begin to bug out as you overheat neuts to try to chase the little bugger off. The effort is in vain, of course, because the falcon has already warped in and out three times and is finally in range to shut you down. The gang gnaws your ship to death in long enough time for you to check patch notes. CCP 'fixed' capacitor batteries, alright
In frustration, you step away from the computer and go outside to meet new people. At a bar near your home, you find yourself crushing real hard on this sweet blond broad. A couple hours sipping beers and shooting the **** pass by, and you have hit the jackpot; you've got her digits. Years later you are living with her happily and expecting children. This whole EVE balance debacle just sort of drifts in the back of your mind, locked away in some distant memory
The forum hate was all just so silly, when you think about it now.
Buff capacitor batteries. |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
41
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Posted - 2012.04.12 14:12:00 -
[118] - Quote
So, you're saying that buffing cap batteries would make me quit Eve and go meet actual living people? WTF! |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
245
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Posted - 2012.04.12 16:59:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP makes me laugh with this stuff all the time.
Falcons have always been great, so they nerfed the range a bit, great.
Nos got changed
damps got made so ineffective on non bonus ships they dont even work that great on an arazu (and the 5% damp strength rigs are a ******* joke forever)
TDs got nerfed and buffed with the addition of fall off but addition of scripts
"whats wrong with recons, why arnt they used?" - "well the falcon is still clearly the best" - "okay great, lets nerf nuets then" lol
/me faceapalm http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
111
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
I have no idea why people are comparing the curse to a falcon. I have never seen a falcon go into null and dominate everything under a bc. even groups of t2 frigs die easily to a curse. I have NEVER seen a falcon nor a Rook do anything close to that.
This is, the curses' EWAR is more reliable (no chance of missing) than a falcon. A falcon misses once, its his ass. A curse just changes targets, neuts his cap, assigns drones and burns away. For a ship whose races' specialty is armor tanking, the curse goes really fast.
Curse locks u, suddenly, u cant warp, u cant fire (if you are using lasers/blasters/railguns), ur turrets are disrupted, ur hardeners shut down, ur DC is shut down, ur prop mod is shut down. AND the curse is burning away from you at 2400m/s.
yeah, **** the curse. |
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