If the DD was AoE AND the EHP for supers were reduced a lot AND the damage was scaled to ship signature radius so that ships took about the same percentage of damage to their shield and armor, then and only then the tactic of nose poking for DD firing would prove difficult for the Titans because they would be hitting each other as well as the opposing fleet AND if they stayed inside the shields then they could not be RR'd unlike the opposing fleet.

How to counter 30 titans.... I dunno, 40 titans? I don't know and I don't really care. There is an answer for anything, and just because I don't know it, and more importantly, you don't know it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that there's a problem. If 40 titans is the answer and you can't field 40 titans, that's your problem, not the game's.

You're still missing my point. There are ways to balance the game without nerfing things like AoE DDs and the titans that wield them. I've already suggested a way to do this that would work quite well, if CCP had the nerve and will to do it. It would allow AoE DDs back in the game and still let swarms of little ships survive them, at least long enough to limp away, if they shouldn't be there in the first place. You don't like AoE DDs or titans, I get that. It doesn't make them wrong. I am firmly on the side of CCP keeping some integrity in the game, that's all.

And yet again, I have to emphasise I'm not talking about any specific experience in the game, just the concept that the game should be nerfed to suit people who have a specific gripe about something. In a way, the idea that I am "unqualified to talk about nullsec in any context" is a benefit to me, because I can see this for what it is without the problem of being too close to it.

wow your answer to my question, "how do you counter 30 titans sitting inside a cynojammer POS" is "drop 40 titans"

in a cynojammed system

you should literally stop posting and go back to mining or whatever it is you do in providence

nerfing titans is nerfing the game now

lol

Not by itself, no. It's the principle of leaving the game fundamentally alone except for incremental evolutionary changes I'm on about.

If the DD was AoE AND the EHP for supers were reduced a lot AND the damage was scaled to ship signature radius so that ships took about the same percentage of damage to their shield and armor, then and only then the tactic of nose poking for DD firing would prove difficult for the Titans because they would be hitting each other as well as the opposing fleet AND if they stayed inside the shields then they could not be RR'd unlike the opposing fleet.

Now that they are not AoE, Titans can just poke and instapop, rinse and repeat. And all that insta-alpha power with practically zero risk to their ships. Since when does an I-win button combined with a zero risk ship agree with the "Eve sandbox?"

arbitrary artificial limits to the abilities of certain weapons

the devs giveth and the devs taketh away

deal with it

Nope. I'm trying to get the Devs to stop doing that. It's a negative thing. It doesn't make any sort of sense in a logical world. Of course, one could say that the world of EVE isn't a logical world, and that's fine if people like that. I don't have to deal with it, I can vote with my feet. Or they can stop nerfing the game. Their choice.

oh no they might lose your subscription if they keep nerfing titans

(nerf titans)

Yes, exactly. One real-dollar subscription won't make any difference. Even the four I currently have won't make much difference either. But they had better hope that there aren't a lot more players like me out there that are hitherto silently putting up with the vandalism happening to the game at the hands of CCP at the behest of the vocal minorities. In any case, you will eventually have the game the way you like it, I'm sure.

the vocal minority that wants titans nerfed at the expense of the majority of players

"the majority of eve players own titans" - you, 2012

Yeah, you're right, let's boost the other 200 ships instead of nerfing these 4. That's not gonna take a ton more dev time or cause 50 new imbalances.

again, this is power creep, allow me to illustrate with a little reductio ad absurdum:

If someone fat fingers a stat in a balance change and accidentally enters a 56% increase per level instead of a 5% increase per level, under your system, you couldnt "nerf" that ship back to the level it should be, you just have to increase all the other ships to compensate . . . you see how ridiculous that is?

youre saying that devs should never have the ability to look at something they did and say "woah, we made that ship way too powerful" Im saying that the devs should use all of the tools available to them to balance the game.

They wouldn't hit each other through the POS shields. The idea is to nose out one, two or three at a time, instapop w/e subcaps were assembled and scurry back inside. Incidentally, this would also clear any bubbles placed around the POS, so if they somehow were truly hurt, they could simply cap up and jump out.

I really must voice my support for making the Titan primarily an anti-super ship, and an anti-structure ship. Let the MOM be the anti-cap ship. The Dread also to some degree.

sorry but if you think AoE DDs that barely dent other capitals are a good idea you're out of your mind

targeted doomsdays that take triage carriers and dreads off the field are fine as they are

Sad to see but the new titans ingame are called Dreadnoughts:

- They have superior damage
- They have superior flexibility since they can dock
- They have superior tracking since they dont have the double Malus from the guns
- They are in every way superior in cost since they cost only 400 mio if insured
- Nearly every average player in eve can buy one
- They have no counter since they can blap support as did the titans before
- They are much easier to skill and train for
- Ewar immunity is given by siege module
- No movement in Siege module is compensated by the fact that transversal should anyway be as small as possible, no movement means no own movement in oposite direction


I am curious if that was really the intended destiny for titans? Now only role reduced to bridge support, which is not very effective since the dreads have higher range and therefore usage of gate travelling is advised anyway.

sorry but if you think AoE DDs that barely dent other capitals are a good idea you're out of your mind

targeted doomsdays that take triage carriers and dreads off the field are fine as they are

How about the DD is 1/100 of the damage, 1/100 of the cycle time, and AOE? That would mostly complete the fix to Titans as far as I can see it.

have you done the math on this or are you just throwing numbers out

aoe doomsdays are dumb and you should feel bad for bringing them up

From 2 mil dmg every 600s to 20k dmg every 6s, scaled by ship signature.

If AOE is bad, should we not also phase smartbombs and regular bombs out of the game? Or do you see a difference that could not be fixed with some thought?

Uhmm.

While in siege:

-Can't Receive RR
-Can't Warp
-Can't Move
-Can't Jump
-Still Vulnerable to Neuts
-Heavily Penalized Scan Resolution it takes over 40 seconds to lock a Battleship
-Reliant on Active Tanking which scales poorly in fleet warfare
-Missiles get huge exp velocity penalty
-Requires Strontium to run siege mod, no Stront no Siege

Not to mention:

-Has only a 1/10 of ehp of a Supercap
-Has smaller capacitor
-Very inflexible compared to Titan
-Useless out of siege - same dps as a battleship with bad tracking
-Stuck in siege and must commit for 5 Minutes
-Will mostly likely die in one hit to Doomsday


Dreadnoughts have big disadvantages and weaknesses to compensate for what they do. Any nullsec fleet can easily alpha strike a Dreadnought when its in siege. It can't receive RR for 5 minutes, its stuck with active tanking which will only protect it from a single dread or a squadron of battleships. Any group bigger is pretty much game over.

Titans give:
-Big leadership bonus to fleet
-Jump Bridge to hotdrop fleets
-Doomsday Device that Instakills Capital Ships
-Packs massive tank
-Ewar immunity - requires bubbles or hictor to point


Titans are far from useless.