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My Nerfed Minnie BSs - Let Me Show You Them or Seriously, wtf CCP

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Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 - [31] Originally by: whisk so, you kIlled some noob in huggin and suddenly sniper tempest is good?;) This is pretty much my reaction. It's a recon ship - one hardly known for EITHER firepower or durability. In fact, there is almost no scenario imaginable where the pest could lose to the Huggin - other than termal stupidity on the Pest pilots part (ZOMG! I forgot to load ammo before leaving station and all my mods are offlined!)
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:56:00 - [32] Edited by: NightmareX on 13/10/2008 22:00:41 Originally by: whisk so, you kIlled some noob in huggin and suddenly tempest is good?;) I was waiting for the omg he must be a noob comment. No he's not a newb doh. He was doing like every other Huginn pilots would do. Keep the transversal high by not flying right to my Tempest, and then get close to me and orbit at max speed while webbing me. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:57:00 - [33] And here I thought I could speed tank my Tempest against those pesky buffer torp ravens; guess that's out the window.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:58:00 - [34] Originally by: NightmareX No i told that the Sniper Tempest was still able to hit a Huginn that was orbiting me at 32km with a speed of 2.2k m/s. My point is that the Huginn pilot ***ed up by the numbers and you killed him for it. There's nothing surprising at all about this... and it doesn't mean that the arty pest is a great ship. And at any rate, another implication of this is that the Huginn is now thoroughly ***ed. -Liang --
whisk Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:58:00 - [35] Edited by: whisk on 13/10/2008 21:59:37 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: whisk so, you kIlled some noob in huggin and suddenly tempest is good?;) I was waiting for the omg he must be a noob comment. No he's not a newb doh. He was doing like every other Huginn pilots would do. Keep the transversal high by not flying right to my Tempest, and then get close to me and orbit at max speed while getting webbed. ill fix my comment so, you kIlled huggin on test server and suddenly tempest is good ? omgZ! im not saying its bad, its great ship vs support and 1on1, but in gang id rather have abaddon or raven with me Adapt or Die
Triest Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:59:00 - [36] Oh, hey, it's NightmareXxxXX posting about how the Tempest is awesome because he can kill people on SISI with it. Everyone, get your numbers and other logic out of this thread, NightmareSephirothXX has killed dozens, nay, hundreds of other battleships in 1 on 1 combat, relying on his slave set, 5% combat implants, and his multispectral ECM to prevail!
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:00:00 - [37] Originally by: NightmareX I was waiting for the omg he must be a noob comment. No he's not a newb doh. He was doing like every other Huginn pilots would do. Keep the transversal high by not flying right to my Tempest, and then get close to me and orbit at max speed while getting webbed. Our point is that this is the WRONG THING TO DO in that situation. He ****ed up, you killed him, there's nothing confusing or surprising. It doesn't mean that the ship is "fine". -Liang --
whisk Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Triest Oh, hey, it's NightmareXxxXX posting about how the Tempest is awesome because he can kill people on SISI with it. Everyone, get your numbers and other logic out of this thread, NightmareSephirothXX has killed dozens, nay, hundreds of other battleships in 1 on 1 combat, relying on his slave set, 5% combat implants, and his multispectral ECM to prevail! and ECM drones and you have my setup:) it works nice, but damage is pityfull Adapt or Die
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 - [39] Edited by: NightmareX on 13/10/2008 22:04:50 LOL, for me the Sniper Tempest have always been good and a fun ship to use in fleet fights. There is a reason i choose to use a Sniper Tempest over a Sniper Mega when i'm 50/50 specializated on both races. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:05:00 - [40] Tempest (maybe other ships) with 1400mm arties II (maybe other guns) on Sisi is bugged. It always deals damage, regardless hit or miss. Log says the gun should miss (be it either high transversal, beyond optimal range or resolution), but target still takes damage. It pretty much surprise-butt-seks anything bellow battleship. Yes, I filed a bug-report. Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.

whisk Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:06:00 - [41] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 13/10/2008 22:04:50 LOL, for me the Sniper Tempest have always been good and a fun ship to use in fleet fights. There is a reason i choose to use a Sniper Tempest over a Sniper Mega when i'm 50/50 specializated on both races. because fitting rails in thron is gay? Adapt or Die
Vireti	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:09:00 - [42] From mass ans speed to "what i did with my guns today" in two easy steps, well done! for those that don't know the raven is one of the more agile bs out there already, fit a mwd and it'll outrun a mega therefore i can only assume it's being reduced so it won't feel left out being unable to tank and fit an ab/mwd like other bs. Unfortunately it's been dropped on it's head. He is correct though, if you're in a cruiser now you need to be literally ontop of your target or you're so slow you can't avoid bs guns, or fit a tracking disruptor with is funny really because they're reworking missiles, but unlike turrets there's absolutely no defence against them. Atm we sit and ask "why bother using an afterburner not a mwd" but on sis it's why bother using a mwd instead of an after burner", then they added the bs where we've gone from not needing them at all if we didn't want to fitting a speed mod always, it's just not possible to not use them which is great if you fly the abbadon because anyone who does will know that the current speed with mwd is less than 900ms, well go reprocess that an buy a geddon, it's about 40ms faster! What people (still) haven't got into their heads is this is not about removing the perma mwds from eve, it's about slowing EVERYTHING down. Hacs going to fast? got to make the bs slower then! + inties cannot avoid light weapons now and last time i checked, those didn't tank well while tackling. In any case i could rant about all the "improvement" but simply it's takes you longer to do anything now so instead of taking you 30 min to make that trip from A to B* it now takes 45, personally i play for fun and don't enjoy eves little chores and i'm quite sure not a single other (paying) player is going to enjoy wasting an extra few hours a week from their lives just to move from system to system. They put this off first time round because of the lash-back they got, once people begin to realise what is going on there's going to be another 50 page thread in the gd section of the forum just like the carriers [someone please feel free to start one, it's inevitable] and, i suppose amusingly, if they ignore it they're going to watch their player base decline after deployment. Travelling is not fun, increasing it because we could fly hacs at 5km/s is borderline idiocy. *the net side effect of this is actually a reduction in the combat areas, since travelling distances is pretty much impossible at speed, even for inties. Since eve is advertised on its emesne size, and since most combat takes place at artificial bottlenecks (gates, belts, stations) already, reducing it, well. Thumbs up for making my game more enjoyable, two accounts arnt being renewed in January .
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Lumy Edited by: Lumy on 13/10/2008 22:14:01 Tempest (maybe other ships) with 1400mm arties II (maybe other guns) on Sisi is bugged. It always deals damage, regardless hit or miss. Log says the gun should miss (be it either high transversal, beyond optimal range or resolution), but target still takes damage. It pretty much surprise-butt-seks anything bellow battleship (ninja edit:and probably battleships too, haven't tried). Yes, I filed a bug-report. It's lots of bugs on sisi now, so i can't deny that then. I have to test that more out to see if it is like that. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Sirokko Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Lumy Edited by: Lumy on 13/10/2008 22:14:01 Tempest (maybe other ships) with 1400mm arties II (maybe other guns) on Sisi is bugged. It always deals damage, regardless hit or miss. Log says the gun should miss (be it either high transversal, beyond optimal range or resolution), but target still takes damage. It pretty much surprise-butt-seks anything bellow battleship (ninja edit:and probably battleships too, haven't tried). Yes, I filed a bug-report. Lol, well that would explain that.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:25:00 - [45] So many noobs here... Mass alone doesnt matter ,it is mass/inertia for agility and velocity/mass+mwd mass for max speed that matters. So if you check these stats then matar ships are much better,than the other ones , both at speed and agility. So those are saying matar bs will be worst compared to other races bses than before changen are stupids morons.
Gragnor Groove Inc	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 - [46] Dear CCP Please specify at what range and in what circumstances can a Tempest, Maelstrom or Typhoon defeat ANY Amarr battleship one on one? Please explain why the guerilla warfare race now no longer has the capacity to hit like a sledgehammer and run away? How does the ducttape race end up with battleships that are generally faster, less agile and have more mass than any other race? Just what logic steps where you thinking about making an active tanking race less able to run away from a fight? Taking your world view to the next level; just how is a battleship to survive being bubbled in null sec. Dictor warps into fleet drops bubble, dies and laughs as the enemy fleet warps in, dictates range and slaughters you? The reason MWD's were needed on battleships was to escape large bubbles and dictor bubbles and close with the enemy from a distance. Thus, making dictor bubbles smaller and large bubbles smaller was a big part of the solution. How hard was that to understand? Now, the cloaked dictor on a gate is uber. Jump in, get bubbled and die as you have NO chance of escaping. Simply put, you don't know what you are doing. As for inty's; just plain stupid gentlemen. The only tank they had was speed and you have nerfed it so bad that they cannot survive in Eve any more. Great, the assault frigate revisited. Yet another ship class with no real use.
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 22:40:00 - [47] Little update: Sniping at 100km range with Hail L is just AWESOME. Have to try Maelstrom. Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Lumy Little update: Sniping at 100km range with Hail L is just AWESOME. Have to try Maelstrom. You mean with Tremor L?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Gragnor Dear CCP Please specify at what range and in what circumstances can a Tempest, Maelstrom or Typhoon defeat ANY Amarr battleship one on one? Please explain why the guerilla warfare race now no longer has the capacity to hit like a sledgehammer and run away? How does the ducttape race end up with battleships that are generally faster, less agile and have more mass than any other race? Just what logic steps where you thinking about making an active tanking race less able to run away from a fight? Taking your world view to the next level; just how is a battleship to survive being bubbled in null sec. Dictor warps into fleet drops bubble, dies and laughs as the enemy fleet warps in, dictates range and slaughters you? The reason MWD's were needed on battleships was to escape large bubbles and dictor bubbles and close with the enemy from a distance. Thus, making dictor bubbles smaller and large bubbles smaller was a big part of the solution. How hard was that to understand? Now, the cloaked dictor on a gate is uber. Jump in, get bubbled and die as you have NO chance of escaping. Simply put, you don't know what you are doing. As for inty's; just plain stupid gentlemen. The only tank they had was speed and you have nerfed it so bad that they cannot survive in Eve any more. Great, the assault frigate revisited. Yet another ship class with no real use. You dont know what you are talking about ,first you want to compare bses dps/tank wise which wont give a full view what a ship is capable off. Second less the inertia is the better so matar bses will be the most agile and fastest bses. 3rd fleet fight is all about bubble enemy ships try to kill them before they warp out then repeat and try to awoid doing the same to you. Every bs will still need an mwd but this topic is matar bs vs other bs after the change. So matar bs can warp out faster when bubbled compared to other snipers. Cloaked dictor well cloaks should be looked at. Inties hmm currenty sabres/rapiers/vagas/zealots >>>own inties no much reason to fly inties if you can bring one of these.
Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:19:00 - [50] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Lumy Little update: Sniping at 100km range with Hail L is just AWESOME. Have to try Maelstrom. You mean with Tremor L?. I mean Hail L. Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.

NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:32:00 - [51] Originally by: Lumy Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Lumy Little update: Sniping at 100km range with Hail L is just AWESOME. Have to try Maelstrom. You mean with Tremor L?. I mean Hail L. Now wtf. So your saying that you can hit targets at 100 km with Dual 650mm's / 800mm's with Hail L?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Naomi Knight So many noobs here... Mass alone doesnt matter ,it is mass/inertia for agility and velocity/mass+mwd mass for max speed that matters. So if you check these stats then matar ships are much better,than the other ones , both at speed and agility. So those are saying matar bs will be worst compared to other races bses than before changen are stupids morons. Mass/inertia? If the numbers linked in the OP are correct, then you are wrong on Min agi superiority. It's pretty obvious to see by just looking at it, but I'll do the math. phoon: 690.66 temp: 688.67 rokh: 658.12 raven: 640.65 mega: 634.84 mael: 627.88 domi: 606.875 arma: 588.49 apoc: 588.48 What this also shows is that besides screwing phoon/temp on agility, they are quietly making amarr better. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 - [53] I wish I could log on Sisi and discern who is talking out of their arse and who is not in this thread.....
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:49:00 - [54] Originally by: SickSeven I wish I could log on Sisi and discern who is talking out of their arse and who is not in this thread..... I forged all the data in that link, I'm sorry. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
Korovyov	Posted - 2008.10.14 00:57:00 - [55] Originally by: Idara New BS masses/inertias/base speeds from latest Sisi build Everyone else gets a huge reduction in masses. Abaddon and Ravens are now lighter than the Tempest (the lightest Minnie BS on Sisi). There are only three BS heavier than the Tempest, the Rokh, Scorp and Geddon, with the Typhoon and Maelstrom also being heavier. Yeah, they got more base speed than everyone else, but why in the hell did everyone else get a mass reduction while the minnies get a mass INCREASE?! Come. On. This is almost as bad as the time the Romans killed Jesus. Why does CCP always nerf anything bigger than a shuttle? Why am I being nerfed because someone found another win-button tactic in CCP's easy-as-1-2-3 exploit engine? I'm definitely not going to stick around for this next "miner buff." I did my time in the belts man, I ain't going back!
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Idara Originally by: SickSeven I wish I could log on Sisi and discern who is talking out of their arse and who is not in this thread..... I forged all the data in that link, I'm sorry. Paper numbers are nothig to me. I'm talking about how they are actually playing out in game. and people are saying completely opposite things in this thread.
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:08:00 - [57] You'll notice the only person saying much about the Tempest being 'good' is NightmareX. I'll let you figure out the rest on your own. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:14:00 - [58] Originally by: Idara You'll notice the only person saying much about the Tempest being 'good' is NightmareX. I'll let you figure out the rest on your own. If you still mean the Tempest is crap, then why do i get those results here: Link. The Tempest must be good on sisi where the changes are now when i can get results like that. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:21:00 - [59] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Idara You'll notice the only person saying much about the Tempest being 'good' is NightmareX. I'll let you figure out the rest on your own. If you still mean the Tempest is crap, then why do i get those results here: Link. The Tempest must be good on sisi where the changes are now when i can get results like that. The fundamental flaw in the argument is that Sisi is not TQ. It's like a physics argument that starts with "a sphere in a vacuum". Sisi fights are not representative of much of the PVP in Eve. It often takes place with implants you simply do not have (crystals, slaves, snakes as examples), or using mods you wouldn't risk on TQ (officer/deadspace and even faction). Frequently they revolve around a 1v1, and the results are hardly indictive "real world" performance. I will agree that there are scenarios where a pest is a good (qualification: better than many alternatives) ship. But those scenarios represent a rather small slice of the PVP pie. Why use a Pest when a Torp Raven will outshine the ship in most scenarios? Why use a Maelstrom to snipe when it's outdone (or at least matched) by the much cheaper apoc?
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:22:00 - [60] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 01:25:21 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Idara You'll notice the only person saying much about the Tempest being 'good' is NightmareX. I'll let you figure out the rest on your own. If you still mean the Tempest is crap, then why do i get those results here: Link. The Tempest must be good on sisi where the changes are now when i can get results like that. Because you've got 10x the skillpoints of the average player, are running a slave set + 5%/7% implants, and have a clue how to fly your ship. What's funny is that you still managed to lose despite all of that going for you (and your argument that eeeeveryone runs full HG slave sets on Sisi is complete bunk, btw). -Liang Read what i wrote in the link. I said that 65-70% of all i was fighting was using Crystals or Slaves or other implants. But yes, i use a Slave set + a damage implant on sisi. Yes i have a clue on how to fly my ships, but if a newer player also have a clue on how to fly the ships he want to use, he can get LOTS of kill with that. No matter what ship your in, if you have a clue and are smart enough, you can do some really nice things in PVP. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'



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