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Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 - [61] Originally by: NightmareX Yes i have a clue on how to fly my ships, but if a newer player also have a clue on how to fly the ships he want to use, he can get LOTS of kill with that. No matter what ship your in, if you have a clue and are smart enough, you can do some really nice things in PVP. I think you are still missing a critical point. Yes, in the right hands and the right situation any ship can be dangerous. But the problem is that some ships have a limited set of scenarios in which that may be true. In the worst cases, the right scenario might not even exist. Some ships take little effort to make work in a particular role. The Rokh excells as a fleet sniper - all it needs is railguns, long ranged ammo and a sensor booster. Others (like the maelstrom) require several additional modifications to do the same job as the Rokh. Some ships are simply an uphill battle, and the worst of them present a hill so steep that it might as well be unclimbable. The minmitar lineup is hardly the worst ship for the job most of the time, but you can be certain that it's almost NEVER going to be the best.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:32:00 - [62] Originally by: NightmareX Yes i have a clue on how to fly my ships<---unneeded variable, but if a newer player<---unneeded variable also have a clue on how to fly the ships he want to use, he can get LOTS of kill with that. No matter what ship your in, if you have a clue and are smart enough <--- unneeded variable, you can do some really nice things in PVPno shit. You keep preaching about "if you're smart" or "if you have a clue". Guess what, none of it matters. AT ALL. Anyone with a clue can do anything with any ship. The fact is, if BOTH players have a clue, minmatar ships are often a BAD choice. Nobody's arguing that someone smart with a minnie ship will kill an idiot with a gallente ship. Your argument is based out of pure theoretic. Well what if the minnie player has poor eyesight. What if the gallente player has a heart attack. What if the minnie player doesn't like microwarpdrives. What if the gallente player has a supercomputer. What if the minnie player is really a dev. NONE of it helps compare ships. So spare us all the shit about this one time where you fought this really good blasterthron pilot on sisi. Nobody cares.
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:36:00 - [63] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 14/10/2008 01:37:40 Originally by: AstroPhobic NONE of it helps compare ships. So spare us all the shit about this one time where you fought this really good blasterthron pilot on sisi. Nobody cares. Ooo, I care, I care! Wait, no I don't ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:42:00 - [64] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 01:44:11 Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: NightmareX Yes i have a clue on how to fly my ships<---unneeded variable, but if a newer player<---unneeded variable also have a clue on how to fly the ships he want to use, he can get LOTS of kill with that. No matter what ship your in, if you have a clue and are smart enough <--- unneeded variable, you can do some really nice things in PVPno shit. You keep preaching about "if you're smart" or "if you have a clue". Guess what, none of it matters. AT ALL. Anyone with a clue can do anything with any ship. The fact is, if BOTH players have a clue, minmatar ships are often a BAD choice. Nobody's arguing that someone smart with a minnie ship will kill an idiot with a gallente ship. Your argument is based out of pure theoretic. Well what if the minnie player has poor eyesight. What if the gallente player has a heart attack. What if the minnie player doesn't like microwarpdrives. What if the gallente player has a supercomputer. What if the minnie player is really a dev. NONE of it helps compare ships. So spare us all the shit about this one time where you fought this really good blasterthron pilot on sisi. Nobody cares. LOL yeah, you just don't want to hear the real truth that a Tempest is really good on sisi. You just try everything to proove me wrong when you really can't, because i have the facts on how the Tempest works from sisi WHERE the changes are now. And for **** sake stop with that oh booohoo it's on sisi so who cares. Now tell me, do you find the speed and web nerf + the mass changes other places than only on sisi?. LOL, keep trying to get a hardcore Minmatar player to think that other Battleship races are better. Dream on dude. Just go away EFT warrior. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:45:00 - [65] The main point it: Why is the race with the 'lightest' and 'fastest' ships, including battleships, suddenly changed to have quite a bit more mass than pretty much every other races BS now? Abaddon lighter than a Tempest? WTF? Megathron 5m kg lighter? WAT? Maybe if having a 90m or 95m kg Tempest would break the game I can see, but if a Raven can be sub-100m KG and lighter than every Minnie BS out there, I can't really swallow that. Also, stop talking about PvPing on Sisi... --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:46:00 - [66] Ok, now I'm starting to see. Nightmare is clearly stuck in his/her own little world(sisi). And refuses to see how his/her examples are absolutley meaningless in real life(TQ). Heh, Nightmare, I've seen a kill board where a rifter killed a Temptest. So rifter > tempest right??
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Idara Also, stop talking about PvPing on Sisi... So you mean because it's sisi we can't check out the new changes on sisi and then tell others on how the Tempest for example are working in PVP then?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:47:00 - [68] Edited by: Idara on 14/10/2008 01:48:23 Edited by: Idara on 14/10/2008 01:48:06 Originally by: SickSeven Ok, now I'm starting to see. Nightmare is clearly stuck in his/her own little world(sisi). And refuses to see how his/her examples are absolutley meaningless in real life(TQ). Heh, Nightmare, I've seen a kill board where a rifter killed a Temptest. So rifter > tempest right?? SSSSH they'll nerf the Rifter. While lowering the masses of all the other frigates. Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Idara Also, stop talking about PvPing on Sisi... So you mean because it's sisi we can't check out the new changes on sisi and then tell others on how the Tempest for example are working in PVP then?. You can't discuss pvp-ability based on your average Sisi 1vs1 encounter. Mainly because how it happens on Sisi isn't what will happen on TQ. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:48:00 - [69] Originally by: SickSeven Ok, now I'm starting to see. Nightmare is clearly stuck in his/her own little world(sisi). And refuses to see how his/her examples are absolutley meaningless in real life(TQ). Heh, Nightmare, I've seen a kill board where a rifter killed a Temptest. So rifter > tempest right?? Do you find the speed and web nerf + the mass changes on TQ?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:54:00 - [70] Originally by: NightmareX LOL yeah, you just don't want to hear the real truth that a Tempest is really good on sisi. This means nothing. It's absolute horse shit and has NOTHING to do with real combat on TQ. You're either fighting pre-setup 1 on 1s, or you're warping into a beacon to fight everyone else. None of this reflects actual combat situations. Quote: You just try everything to proove me wrong when you really can't, because i have the facts on how the Tempest works from sisi WHERE the changes are now. Bullshit. I've given you plenty of numbers, but all you can say is "that's not how it really is, this one time on sisi I killed a megathron and I talked to him after and he had a slave set too". That's not counter evidence, it's absolutely nothing. You want some real evidence, pull some god damn numbers. That's all this game is. It's not your gut feelings or your encounters, every single battle can be broken down into little bitty numbers. You choose to ignore these numbers and therefore choose to ignore every aspect of a fight. Quote: And for ** sake stop with that oh booohoo it's on sisi so who cares. Now tell me, do you find the speed and web nerf + the mass changes other places than only on sisi?. Sisi is not ing TQ. It doesn't model any combat situations that occur in TQ. Minnie BS are shit before the patch and they'll be shit after the patch. They're getting nerfed FFS. Quote: LOL, keep trying to get a hardcore Minmatar player to think that other Battleship races are better. I've given up on you, I seriously think you have mental issues or a huge goddamn ego to hold onto. You're far from a lost cause. The point here is to make sure that nobody else takes you seriously, because all your points are derived from your "feelings" and battles on a test server. Quote:** Dream on dude. Just go away EFT warrior. Kiss my ass. I don't have to take shit from you just because you have longer in-game time. Guess what, I've been around for 4 years too. Guess how many of those years I've flown minmatar. It's all 4. I know where minmatar was compared to the other races. I know where it stands now. If you refuse to accept numerical proof as evidence, you're too dense for this game.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:58:00 - [71] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:01:53 Yadda yadda yadda, your uber fail EFT numbers vs my facts and real experience. Who wins?. And if you say a Tempest is getting crappier on sisi only because it get a little lower speed and a bigger mass just proves that your stupid and ******ed. Because the changes that are on sisi MAKES THE TEMPEST BETTER FFS. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:02:00 - [72] Originally by: NightmareX Yadda yadda yadda, your ~~EFT~~ numbers and 4 years TQ experience vs my ~~facts~~ and ~~real~~TQ experience. Who wins?. I don't know, who does win?
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 - [73] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: NightmareX Yadda yadda yadda, your ~~EFT~~ numbers and 4 years TQ experience vs my ~~facts~~ and ~~real~~TQ experience. Who wins?. I don't know, who does win? And from those 4 years you have 7 days with experience from Minmatar right?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 - [74] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:00:49 Yadda yadda yadda, your EFT numbers vs my facts and real experience. Who wins?. And if you say a Tempest is getting crappier on sisi only because it get a little lower speed and a bigger mass just proves that your stupid and ******ed. Because the changes that are on sisi MAKES THE TEMPEST BETTER FFS. Numbers are. Because you have done nothing to establish your ethos with me. Numbers are verifiable - your story is only that to me. It's a fairtale. Nothing against you or anything; if you want to argue based on ethos you have to make me understand WHY you're a credible source, and the best way to do that? Give me proof and numbers. Otherwise it's just heresay.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:08:00 - [75] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:08:14 Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:00:49 Yadda yadda yadda, your EFT numbers vs my facts and real experience. Who wins?. And if you say a Tempest is getting crappier on sisi only because it get a little lower speed and a bigger mass just proves that your stupid and ******ed. Because the changes that are on sisi MAKES THE TEMPEST BETTER FFS. Numbers are. Because you have done nothing to establish your ethos with me. Numbers are verifiable - your story is only that to me. It's a fairtale. Nothing against you or anything; if you want to argue based on ethos you have to make me understand WHY you're a credible source, and the best way to do that? Give me proof and numbers. Otherwise it's just heresay. To say it short. I have never been able to kill that much on sisi in 1 vs 1 fights or in other types of PVP there. After the speed and web nerf + mass changes did hit sisi, i saw an improovment of the Tempest in PVP. And remember, i have been a user of sisi for 4 years soon. So i have tested out more then you can dream of there. Is that enough to say that the Tempest is better in PVP now then it have been before?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:15:00 - [76] Originally by: NightmareX Is that enough to say that the Tempest is better in PVP now then it have been before?. No. Extraneous variables such as more players or newer players trying out sisi for the first time because of the new changes. Players testing new setups. Trying something different. Even ignoring all of these (which is idiocy at best), all it would mean is the tempest is now better suited for sisi combat. Which for the billionth time, does not reflect actual TQ engagements at all.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:16:00 - [77] So we're still ignoring the possible bugs? Well, go right ahead and flame each other then...
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:19:00 - [78] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:18:51 Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: NightmareX Is that enough to say that the Tempest is better in PVP now then it have been before?. No. Extraneous variables such as more players or newer players trying out sisi for the first time because of the new changes. Players testing new setups. Trying something different. Even ignoring all of these (which is idiocy at best), all it would mean is the tempest is now better suited for sisi combat. Which for the billionth time, does not reflect actual TQ engagements at all. Please tell me exactly why you can't really compare Sisi combat with TQ combat?. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 - [79] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:20:58 Originally by: P'uck So we're still ignoring the possible bugs? Well, go right ahead and flame each other then... Remember that those results i have against all of the other battleships i was fighting was the first time the speed and web nerf + the mass changes was on sisi some months ago. So the hit bugs was not there then if that was you was thinking about. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
P'uck	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:23:00 - [80] And what makes you so sure about it? Could as well be they are stemming from the speed changes and we got the same patch on sisi now. They just took it off for some months as it seems.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:24:00 - [81] Originally by: NightmareX Please tell me exactly why you can't really compare Sisi combat with TQ combat?. All fights are pre-arranged or centered around a beacon.
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:24:00 - [82] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:20:58 Originally by: P'uck So we're still ignoring the possible bugs? Well, go right ahead and flame each other then... Remember that those results i have against all of the other battleships i was fighting was the first time the speed and web nerf + the mass changes was on sisi some months ago. So the hit bugs was not there then if that was you was thinking about. Huh? Did you check the mass/speed/inertia changes back during the initial speed nerf release on Sisi? If you can't provide a link to the state of those numbers back then, you really can't compare those fights you had months ago to what's occurred now. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:25:00 - [83] Originally by: P'uck And what makes you so sure about it? Could as well be they are stemming from the speed changes and we got the same patch on sisi now. They just took it off for some months as it seems. I'm 100% sure about it, because like the 1400mm's and Autocannons are now on sisi, you just hit anyways when your log shows that you missed. It was not like that before. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:25:00 - [84] Originally by: NightmareX Please tell me exactly why you can't really compare Sisi combat with TQ combat?. It's the same reason a high school physics equation does not correctly model a real world scenario: the variables are different. In TQ, the fear of loss is the primary variable that leads to the fundamental differences between it and SiSi. Ships are rarely fit with top of the line gear - most opt for easily replaced T2 gear instead. Ships will often blob in TQ because the more friends you have the less likely you are to get personally waxed in a fight. Fear of an unproven design means you face mostly proven cookie-cutter style ships. There is more than that obviously, and while sisi provides an excellent forum for live fire testing of ships and concepts the only real test ground is on TQ. Until it's proven (or disproven) on TQ it's all just theory.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:26:00 - [85] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:29:42 Originally by: Idara Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:20:58 Originally by: P'uck So we're still ignoring the possible bugs? Well, go right ahead and flame each other then... Remember that those results i have against all of the other battleships i was fighting was the first time the speed and web nerf + the mass changes was on sisi some months ago. So the hit bugs was not there then if that was you was thinking about. Huh? Did you check the mass/speed/inertia changes back during the initial speed nerf release on Sisi? The Mass/Inertia and speed thing was on sisi some months back, they was 100% the same as they are now, except that the missiles might have been changed now this time on sisi i think. Check out my new flash web page 'Quantum Singularity'
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Idara Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:20:58 Originally by: P'uck So we're still ignoring the possible bugs? Well, go right ahead and flame each other then... Remember that those results i have against all of the other battleships i was fighting was the first time the speed and web nerf + the mass changes was on sisi some months ago. So the hit bugs was not there then if that was you was thinking about. Huh? Did you check the mass/speed/inertia changes back during the initial speed nerf release on Sisi? If you can't provide a link to the state of those numbers back then, you really can't compare those fights you had months ago to what's occurred now. Hard numbers please. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
Mira O'karr Minmatar eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:07:00 - [87] Edited by: Mira O''karr on 14/10/2008 12:08:43 whatever .. not worth it .. douche is douche
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.14 13:23:00 - [88] Faildara ♥ I don't fly Minnie, but this seems a little silly - Infectious -
Shinta Kobi Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:02:00 - [89] Edited by: Shinta Kobi on 14/10/2008 18:03:17 If I was looking for an easy ship to PvP with, I would not go with Minmatar at all. However, any easy ship to fly is just not fun. I fly a Maelstrom BECAUSE it is not easy to operate. It sucks as an AC boat, it's only good with arty in groups(sniper if trained up), and it is only as fast as you maneuver it. Torps or cruise missles are about pointless on it, due to no good bonus to enhance it. RoF and shield boosting are the only bonuses on it. It's signature makes it easy to hit at long range. Yes they are more expensive than they are worth, but for Minmatar BS's, they can take a beating, even if someone is skilled average for operation. For me, that's what make this ship fun.
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.14 20:57:00 - [90] Checking the base speed of a Nidhoggur and seeing it's faster than a few BSs (90m/s), I'm hoping that some...person...thought that it'd be fun to mess with the Minnie BS stats in the wrong direction. At least that's what I'm telling myself for now. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara

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