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My Nerfed Minnie BSs - Let Me Show You Them or Seriously, wtf CCP

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Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:43:00 - [91] Not sure how too look at this, astro you might have a better angle on this. Looking at the negatives vs positives of this is a bit confusing till i try it myself. 1. Increased mass on a BS will make it harder to slow down with a web once it's reached full speed. I can see this as an advantage, HOWEVER. 2. Rarely do you have time to increase your speed after you jump thru a gate or come out of warp, does the increased base speed help negate this? 3. If the increased base speed does in fact help you get up to speed quicker OR if it makes the minny line of ships keep pace with the other classes, this will make them harder to slow down over all. All this is moot if point 2 is not true. I can see this being a good change IF and ONLY IF the relative acceleration stays in the favor of the minny boats. (Mainly the phoon since it's the only one worth a crap.)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 02:31:00 - [92] Originally by: Megan Maynard Not sure how too look at this, astro you might have a better angle on this. I liked you better when you disagreed with what I said. Quote: Looking at the negatives vs positives of this is a bit confusing till i try it myself. 1. Increased mass on a BS will make it harder to slow down with a web once it's reached full speed. I can see this as an advantage, HOWEVER. 2. Rarely do you have time to increase your speed after you jump thru a gate or come out of warp, does the increased base speed help negate this? 3. If the increased base speed does in fact help you get up to speed quicker OR if it makes the minny line of ships keep pace with the other classes, this will make them harder to slow down over all. All this is moot if point 2 is not true. I can see this being a good change IF and ONLY IF the relative acceleration stays in the favor of the minny boats. (Mainly the phoon since it's the only one worth a crap.) Basically I see it like this, assuming two ships for ease. There's two types of combat. Webbed or not webbed. Even at 60% speed reduction, one of the ships is geared towards short range combat (we'll call this blasters or torps for ease), and will have the tools or mods necessary to keep opponents there. Increased mass only insures that the short range ship has time to react to the opponent's attempts to flee. We all know minnie boats don't have the tools necessary to compete at this range. Two ships geared for ranged combat (say autocannons, because they cant compete at short range, and pulse). Increased mass means less agility and acceleration for minnie BS, giving them less of a chance to "catch" any ships that would be beneficial to close distance on (though I have extremely conflicted opinions on what range minnie is "good" at). They're outclassed at range. However this is all 1 on 1 nonsense. In say a gang fight, it's important to have damage at every range or the tools necessary to close range to do the appropriate damage. The current webs allow blaster ships (and to some extent the hurricane - what the tempest SHOULD be as a BS) to trap down opponents and unleash hell. Autocannons are supposed to have versatility in that falloff allows them to fight at all ranges. HOWEVER, slower (accelerating) ships mean long range ships keep their range and short range ships keep their range. Whatever little range control minnie possesed before (kiting megathrons? please) is now effectively null, post patch.
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:08:00 - [93] On Tranquility, I am one of those that love the Tempest, and think of it as one of the dirtiest battleships in EVE. I totally disagree with the people saying that it sucks. Well it sucks in direct comparisons, but then again you don¦t take an armor tanked Vagabond loaded with Hail in web range of a Deimos, do you? The other day I easily beat a max-skilled and one of the best Megathron pilots I know. Various other Amarr battleships flown by competent pilots suffered the same fate, and I¦m confident I can take on any other BS, except maybe some Ravens and a few certain fits. And my skills are, at best, suspicious. But the way I fly the Tempest is never a balls to the wall slugfest. This is what Amarr and Gallente battleships are for. Agility and intense cap warfare win the fight every time for me (and this is one of the cases that its capless weapons play a VERY important role on the outcome). I never play on SiSi, but if what is there gets implemented, then the Tempest will REALLY SUCK. The only thing it has going for it on Tranquility is its superior speed and agility, and the fact that it can be fit in some very dirty ways. It can¦t tank and can¦t gank well enough to justify a mass increase.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.15 10:44:00 - [94] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 13/10/2008 21:36:19 Originally by: Liang Nuren Nightmare I think we've all established that you have a really poor sense of judgment. You think things are "fine" if there's a 0.1% chance of you having parity with another ship/race.... You're dead wrong there, and you're dead wrong here. I will admit that the Pest makes out better than blaster ships... but they're just getting nerfed so hard they'll never see the light of day again. -Liang This is the ships i have been fighting in my Tempest on sisi with the speed and web nerf + the mass changes. 14 x Megathron. Won over 10. 7 x Raven. Won over 5. 5 x Armageddon. Won over 3. 2 x Apocalypse. Won over both. 1 x Rokh. Won over it. That ship was tanked like a bad mofo, he had 4x Heavy Nos'es on me. So i took like 160k damage on him before he died. Capless weapons and mostly passive tank 4tw on the Tempest. 4 x Maelstrom. Won over all 4. 2 x Dominix. Won over 1. 2 x Hyperion. Won over 1. And 65-70% of all those players i have been fighting on sisi have had Crystals or Slaves or other weapon implants on. And that's the reason i always use Slaves and other damage implants etc on sisi. Now tell me, is that a bad result to be done in a Tempest?. I would say NO. And don't come with that oooohhh most of them are probably newbs. No, most of them have been really experienced and old players. So yeah Liang, i think you have a point by the Blasters on sisi now. I had the Megathron Federate Issue on sisi when the same changes was on sisi earlier. And i know what your talking about. hwo much you kill or not on SISI is worthless on that regard. Minamtar BS are beign nerfed period. Jsut look at numbers. Nothing can spin taht out. Numbers of kills may change doe to a trillion othe r reasons, like a large influx of noob into test server to see the changes. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 11:31:00 - [95] You can't just look at the mass alone. (Sorted from most to least agile for Sisi values) New base agility figures: Tier 1 Scorpion TQ: 15.525 Sisi: 15.022 Dominix TQ: 16.275 Sisi: 15.536 Typhoon TQ: 15.5 Sisi: 15.54 Armageddon TQ: 17.05 Sisi: 16.306 Tier 2 Megathron TQ: 15.8875 Sisi: 15.252 Raven TQ: 15.95 Sisi: 15.3915 Tempest TQ: 15.8875 Sisi: 15.495 Apocalypse TQ: 16.6625 Sisi: 16.0215 Tier 3 Hyperion TQ: 15.8875 Sisi: 15.531 Rokh TQ: 18 Sisi: 16.848 Abaddon TQ: 18.2125 Sisi: 17.028 Maelstrom TQ: 17.825 Sisi: 17.094 Typhoon: only bs that loses agility?! Maelstrom: wtf, Minmatar more brick than Amarr?!
Stork DK Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.15 11:42:00 - [96] We didnt want those BS anyway. Srsly wtf ccp? -----
Elena Morin'staal Minmatar Tau Online Explorator Corp	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:14:00 - [97] For sale, one maelstrom. Kind and loving owner, in top notch condition.
Toolivus Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:26:00 - [98] Edited by: Toolivus on 15/10/2008 13:26:17 Part of me still believes that these stats are like they are because of an as yet unmentioned change to projectiles that will make them balanced again. The other part of me has already poured the bourbon out onto the street corner and is still fighting with the hangover from finishing the rest of the bottle.
Jukhta Mein Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.15 14:21:00 - [99] Aside from the forums, is there a way of getting CCP to notice this before they actually implement this ingame?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:04:00 - [100] NightmareX, you do realise that gun tracking/range is fubared on sisi, right? Your tests are invalid as all turret weapons hit for good damage at any range. Its a bug. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces

Lumy Minmatar eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:42:00 - [101] I'm just wondering, how did NightmareX manage to lose to a raven. Day or so ago, missiles were doing zero damage. Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS.
Makavelia	Posted - 2008.10.15 18:26:00 - [102] Bahh, another game where ive manedged to pick the side who gets but monkeyd by the developers I thought this nano fix was intended to bring bs's back into the game? im mainly pvp but this has gote hurt the mission runers on route to those 100k gates... rather u than me
Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 18:38:00 - [103] CCP hates abaddons
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2008.10.15 18:53:00 - [104] I was a supporter of the speed nerf initially. Mainly because I thought it was stupid that having trained Rapier/Huginn I was still watching nano*s burn back through gates even after fitting sensor boosters and multiple webs on my Matar recons. Hopeful I was that CCP might take many of the excellent suggestions generated on the forums for how to rebalance speed. Should have known. I fly Amarr and Minmatar mainly. The NOS nerf was not done right, killed the Pilgrim and made the Curse an eh. The ECM nerf was needed (i used to fit them and lol at their op'd effects), but was then followed with an over the top rebuff on Caldari ecm bonuses. The damp nerf was also needed, but no rebuff on the Gallente damp ships killed the Gallente recons. So now I am left worrying about my favorite Rapiers and Phoons. The web nerf that is paired with this speed nerf is too strong. And this stupid penalizing Matar BSs with added mass is so incomprehensibly stupid I don't know where the ** they get some of the stupid game designers. I had hoped that the first go round on the test server changes and the resulting missile and blaster problems would have convinced CCP that they should go back to the beginning and reevalute the whole method for rebalancing speed. If only they would. Unfotunately I expect we will see this STUPID MASS ADDITION TO MATAR BS as part of THIS STUPID ATTEMPT AT REBALANCING SPEED. CCP STOP. GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE AND TRY AGAIN. READ THE MANY SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE OFFERED. LOOK AT SMALL INCREMENTAL CHANGES. I shout because it's all that's left. I will not threaten to quit. This is still the greatest online game out there. However, it will become much less so in the near future I expect. Hopefully, someone in CCP will wake up and not let it fully become Caldari Online. Falcon alts and Ravens, Rokhs, Scorpions and Drakes for everyone who does not want to be poor and/or a wreck. (I sadly already have made mine) A plague of Achura on you all it seems.
Traderboz	Posted - 2008.10.15 19:47:00 - [105] Quote: CCP STOP. GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE AND TRY AGAIN. READ THE MANY SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE OFFERED. LOOK AT SMALL INCREMENTAL CHANGES. I said that when the changes first were announced. I said that a week after, and a week after that. I haven't seen any signs of CCP doing something intelligent to address the problem and scrapping their current plans. I doubt we're going to see that. At this point I don't really care that much, but that's mostly because I've discovered Warhammer. At least at this point, the Warhammer dev's understand their own game, which is more than you can say for the EVE devs and their HG snakes. I do have to say though, a Minmatar BS nerf is exactly what this patch needed to satisfy the lulzfactor. IMO they should also throw a nerf into large artillery, just for good measure.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.15 21:05:00 - [106] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2008 21:05:48 Originally by: Traderboz Quote: CCP STOP. GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE AND TRY AGAIN. READ THE MANY SUGGESTIONS THAT WERE OFFERED. LOOK AT SMALL INCREMENTAL CHANGES. I said that when the changes first were announced. I said that a week after, and a week after that. I haven't seen any signs of CCP doing something intelligent to address the problem and scrapping their current plans. I doubt we're going to see that. At this point I don't really care that much, but that's mostly because I've discovered Warhammer. At least at this point, the Warhammer dev's understand their own game, which is more than you can say for the EVE devs and their HG snakes. I do have to say though, a Minmatar BS nerf is exactly what this patch needed to satisfy the lulzfactor. IMO they should also throw a nerf into large artillery, just for good measure. Yeah I'm all but ready to drop 3 30-32M SP Eve characters on the floor between this ****ation Eve is calling a patch and the sheer amount of fun I have in Warhammer. Order > Dest, btw.. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Traderboz	Posted - 2008.10.15 21:44:00 - [107] Ew Order? Say it ain't so. The one upside order has is that there are fewer of them, and so their queue times are blazing fast. Oh, and they have those damn bright wizards, but if and when those get nerfed, as they need to be, lol, then destruction for the win. And simply put, we look cooler.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.15 21:58:00 - [108] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2008 22:01:17 Originally by: Traderboz Ew Order? Say it ain't so. The one upside order has is that there are fewer of them, and so their queue times are blazing fast. Oh, and they have those damn bright wizards, but if and when those get nerfed, as they need to be, lol, then destruction for the win. And simply put, we look cooler. I dunno... the Destro classes are all pretty badass simply on the numbers - they didn't need the superior looks. I tried tank but it wasn't my bag... then I tried DPS. Muuuch better. Been running with 2x shadow warriors (me and another guy from Eve) and it's epically fun to primary people while "cloaked". The shadow warriors are almost outdamaging bright wizards. ;-) Was looking at it and between the two of us we've been taking down squishies in sub 6 seconds pretty regularly... -Liang Ed: And my favorite thing is the queue times being so darn fast. You should try it on Order... tons of fun, and if you've got a good team you can steamroll people over and over. ;-) -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:57:00 - [109] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2008 22:01:17 Originally by: Traderboz Ew Order? Say it ain't so. The one upside order has is that there are fewer of them, and so their queue times are blazing fast. Oh, and they have those damn bright wizards, but if and when those get nerfed, as they need to be, lol, then destruction for the win. And simply put, we look cooler. I dunno... the Destro classes are all pretty badass simply on the numbers - they didn't need the superior looks. I tried tank but it wasn't my bag... then I tried DPS. Muuuch better. Been running with 2x shadow warriors (me and another guy from Eve) and it's epically fun to primary people while "cloaked". The shadow warriors are almost outdamaging bright wizards. ;-) Was looking at it and between the two of us we've been taking down squishies in sub 6 seconds pretty regularly... -Liang Ed: And my favorite thing is the queue times being so darn fast. You should try it on Order... tons of fun, and if you've got a good team you can steamroll people over and over. ;-) I've pretty much tried every class in the game at this point and my favorites are (in order) Witch Hunter (shooting people in the face is great) Shadow Warrior (Skrimish + DPS is a hell of a lot better than stationary DPS) Chosen (The best tank in the game as far as I'm concerned)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:00:00 - [110] I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me.

Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:03:00 - [111] Originally by: AstroPhobic I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me. No not that I know of. I know I forked over the cash for mine based on some friends' recommendation. It's tons of fun and I really like the PVP... honestly, I can't see myself coming back to Eve ATM. I'll keep a skill training for now "just in case". -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:06:00 - [112] Originally by: AstroPhobic I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me. No demo for now; you have to pay for the game. It's worth the price of admission I think. The PVP is solid, the balance issues are tolerable and PVE is not nearly as soul crushing. In fact, you never need PVE if you don't want to - you can level just fine in PVP (and often you level faster in PVP than PVE).
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:09:00 - [113] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: AstroPhobic I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me. No demo for now; you have to pay for the game. It's worth the price of admission I think. The PVP is solid, the balance issues are tolerable and PVE is not nearly as soul crushing. In fact, you never need PVE if you don't want to - you can level just fine in PVP (and often you level faster in PVP than PVE). Especially if you're Order. ;-) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:09:00 - [114] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: AstroPhobic I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me. No demo for now; you have to pay for the game. It's worth the price of admission I think. The PVP is solid, the balance issues are tolerable and PVE is not nearly as soul crushing. In fact, you never need PVE if you don't want to - you can level just fine in PVP (and often you level faster in PVP than PVE). Excellent. I shall definitely give it a spin then. Perhaps meet you guys ingame.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:37:00 - [115] Might give it a spin. So, Iron rock? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:42:00 - [116] Originally by: Cpt Branko Might give it a spin. So, Iron rock? Yeah hit me up, we'll go rumble some T1s tonight. :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:57:00 - [117] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cpt Branko Might give it a spin. So, Iron rock? Yeah hit me up, we'll go rumble some T1s tonight. :) -Liang 3hrs left on the download. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:03:00 - [118] Originally by: Cpt Branko 3hrs left on the download. Cool, I'll try to be logging in then. send me a tell (/t Vanesca hi) and I'll hook you up with some vent details -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:05:00 - [119] Epic derail. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara
Idara Caldari Failure Corp	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:05:00 - [120] Epic derail. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first in EVE - Idara



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