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Sandy Minge	Posted - 2008.10.18 19:39:00 - [4501] Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking Well perhaps CCP doesn't do anything against the ISK-Farmers because they pay their account subscriptions on regular basis - Unlike the ebil Ghost-Skillers! Who knows, when everything is about the money, then perhaps the ISK-Farmers even got a decent deal with CCP! :) For the very least the ISK farmers annoy the community and distract from the real issues which would then be addressed to CCP
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 19:44:00 - [4502] Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on. also haha 150th page Really? So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3? I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training. First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer. It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs. A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed. Tiv
ShadowDraqon Awesome Industries Group	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:04:00 - [4503] Originally by: Tivookz Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on. also haha 150th page Really? So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3? I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training. First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer. It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs. A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed. Tiv 1) i think your logic fails. Who said anything about leaving? Your answer makes no sense. 2) Don't talk about icelandic economy, I live there. Stop rubbing it in ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly
Tobin Shalim Vulcan Foundry A.X.I.S	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:10:00 - [4504] Originally by: Zanquis they are basically trying to hide this thread and hope it goes away, kinda like they quickly shoved this change out the door with a half baked poorly thought out announcement which offended our intelligence. I believe I read somewhere that ccp is not going to reverse this decision and they fully expect the backlash to subside and be forgotten, then business as usual. aren't they still getting backlash and bad PR over the whole t20 incident? if that's really their plan, they need to reevaluate it, because from what i've seen, the Eve playerbase doesn't forget things like this.
NereSky Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:19:00 - [4505] Originally by: Tobin Shalim Originally by: Zanquis they are basically trying to hide this thread and hope it goes away, kinda like they quickly shoved this change out the door with a half baked poorly thought out announcement which offended our intelligence. I believe I read somewhere that ccp is not going to reverse this decision and they fully expect the backlash to subside and be forgotten, then business as usual. aren't they still getting backlash and bad PR over the whole t20 incident? if that's really their plan, they need to reevaluate it, because from what i've seen, the Eve playerbase doesn't forget things like this. They dont care m8 T20 still works for them - they have created a 'inetrnal affairs' dept where they dont divulge complaints nor do they even tell you a complaint is even looked at, its all lip service tbh This issue will be washed away but not forgotten, wouldnt suprise me if they are running bets as to how long this thread go's on for
Hansen Ranvleir	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:27:00 - [4506] It's pretty funny reading all of the complaints. OH NO, I HAVE TO PLAY MY ACCOUNT! OH NO! I can't just set a character aside for months to skip large chunks of the game. Sure, long skills are long, but what makes you think that you have any right to get CCP's services on an inactive account?
Velda Chulai	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:31:00 - [4507] Edited by: Velda Chulai on 18/10/2008 20:32:25 Originally by: ShadowDraqon Originally by: Tivookz Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on. also haha 150th page Really? So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3? I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training. First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer. It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs. A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed. Tiv 1) i think your logic fails. Who said anything about leaving? Your answer makes no sense. 2) Don't talk about icelandic economy, I live there. Stop rubbing it in Many of us speculate since it's nearly everything CCP has stated has been simply unbelievable. The economic effects are just one thing that we speculate about. Looks like CCP managed to nerf Ghost Posting :)
Parasite S Death Monkey's With Knives	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:56:00 - [4508] Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. also haha 150th page ccp employee: well of course we could.... but i ever wanted to have this fancy aquarium next one: yeah and of course we could..... --------------- DON'T troll me
Detritus Thermopyle Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:00:00 - [4509] If *schadenfreude* is a sin, then I know where my final destination lies. (But I am SO enjoying some of the waypoints on the way there!) A lie can travel halfway around the universe while the truth is un-docking. ~ Mark Twain (paraphrased)
Rektide	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:16:00 - [4510] "Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things?" YES IT DOES The cap train is hundreds of dollars even with unsub training. Combined with your doubly effective screw over of the GTC market (firstly raising the $/day rate massively and secondly reducing market choice competition thereby increasing GTC isk cost thereby reducing affordability of GTC) its pretty clear what your intents are. You jackals just jacked your rates into the stratosphere. You're systematically doing your best to scrooge the most money possible from the veteran players who love this game, and your backhanded denial that this is anything but a greedy and unnecessary attempt at increasing revenue only ads further insult to you inreasingly malicious pricing policies. Your damnable excuse that, "in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions" rings false in so many ways it is revolting: you should be able to run the skill training for 100,000 inactive characters on a 486, and you shouldnt have to dedicate one man hour to maintaining that. The cost is nil, zero, zilch. The only thing at stake here is opportunity cost: your greed has lead you to decide that there is more to gain by not giving the most dedicated players something for free. You've seen more people doing inactive skill training as more players add more accounts, and you've seen dollar signs in your eyes. It is exploitation, pure and simple. I write about eve a lot. Search for me online. For the most part I love eve; its the only mmpog with persistence that matters. You ignore your players in this forums which I can understand (over 150 pages of complaints and growing), but thinking you can leverage these bastardly changes and not suffer any consequence at all is a hubris I will not let you live down. Your potential customers will be hearing a very different tone from me online as I continue write about this game I love. This change is not acceptable, and CCP has shown an ever increasing greed and drive towards increased monitization at the cost of the people who love this game the most, and based on the recent trends its clear CCP will always do everything in its powers to leverage the most money possible from its players, no matter how it affects them, on the basis that they will be forced to go along with the changes. The line is drawn here. This change is not acceptable, it penalizes the people who love your game the most in unacceptable ways. I will do everything in my powers to make the world know the level of CCPs greed and how it injures this game I love. Revert it immediately and humbly ask your players forgivnence. This post has been screenshotted.
Rektide	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:27:00 - [4511] Also it is massively unjust that there are thousands of players who have developed armies of Cap-Ship alts using this avenue, and that anyone who joins your game now will not have that option. You are giving the early players a massive and unfair advantage versus any one who is playing now.
ShadowDraqon Awesome Industries Group	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:11:00 - [4512] No, you are just cheap and liked it when you could play technically for free half the time. ______________________ I got killed for my kindness no, rly
Janus Duo Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:21:00 - [4513] Originally by: ShadowDraqon No, you are just cheap and liked it when you could play technically for free half the time. What, do you never do anything ingame but train skills?
Rektide	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:21:00 - [4514] Cheap? I've played casually for three years. My main has 32m SP. Recently I've decided to invest more in EVE, in large part to achieve parity with the people who've been playing for six years and have a host of accounts. I aimed to go from zero to three capship capable pilots. No one used inactive skill trains cause they were cheap. They used them because they were dedicated end game players and it was the only sane way to do capital ship training where theres many many 30 day skill trains required. Even with unsub accounts a cap ship pilot costs many hundreds of dollars. As stated, this change unfairly entrenches the players who were able to at a reasonable cost build Capital Ship pilots, by making the cost of entry for capital ship warfare astronomical. Its not people who were cheap that used this, its people with multiple accounts who used this because they loved Eve but couldnt afford the rediculous costs now required for medium & late game play. Given the inordinately long skill trains required, I dont see why up and coming dedicated players should be penalized so unfairly versus the thousands of players who've already taken this logical and fair route.
SZ Rota Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:37:00 - [4515] Edited by: SZ Rota on 18/10/2008 22:38:14 No ShadowDragon, these customers arenÆt cheap, they were, and ARE, already paying far MORE in Eve for LESS content and flexibility. Other mmos allow for development of more than one fully functional character on an account at a time. Most players on most mmos develop more than one character at a time, but they do NOT pay for multiple subscriptions because itÆs just not necessary in other games. Ghost training helped a little with character advancement, liked rested xp in other games, but not anymore. Other mmos have more character slots and have rested xp. ONLY in Eve do you have this strange culture of denial where players love the game so much that they fool themselves into believing itÆs normal and acceptable to be bled of money for multiple accounts just to achieve a baseline of whatÆs standard in other games for ONE subscription, not two or three or four.
Hilfreich Minmatar Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:50:00 - [4516] it all boils down to one question: Do CCP know their Customers, or not? If they do, then they will live. If they dont, then they just did a SoE. Were I a stakeholder in that company, I'd worry about them just removing a key selling point without necessity, and against public opinion. This thread has grown faster than the speed issue one, despite beeing ghosted for a week. I wonder why... Originally by: CCP Oveur If you don't like it there, there are about 5000 other solar systems which you can go for.
Orwell Lok'errt	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:53:00 - [4517] Edited by: Orwell Lok''errt on 18/10/2008 22:53:04 Originally by: SZ Rota Edited by: SZ Rota on 18/10/2008 22:38:14 Other mmos have more character slots and have rested xp. ONLY in Eve do you have this strange culture of denial where players love the game so much that they fool themselves into believing it’s normal and acceptable to be bled of money for multiple accounts just to achieve a baseline of what’s standard in other games for ONE subscription, not two or three or four. i'm sure it is just a bug and all those mmos will fix it as soon as they find out about it.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:57:00 - [4518] Originally by: Rektide Also it is massively unjust that there are thousands of players who have developed armies of Cap-Ship alts using this avenue, and that anyone who joins your game now will not have that option. You are giving the early players a massive and unfair advantage versus any one who is playing now. But why should new people be allowed the same priveleges the older chars had? Shame on them for taking ages to join the game. I guess. The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread
Fyrr Deerdan Caldari Envoy Corps	Posted - 2008.10.18 22:58:00 - [4519] Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking If they failed to fix something, does it mean they have to stop trying fixing the rest ? That's a dangerous way of looking globally at a system that you're trying to improve.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:11:00 - [4520] Originally by: Ramblin Man Hurray, the thread returns! + respect for making it so and stickifying it Personally, I still think, Cold training > No cold training If you look at it on a macro level... people cold train and sell their characters ('most disruptive' case). Result? Characters are much cheaper for people looking to buy them (primarily people who spend a lot of time playing [good] or people who are new to the game [also good, since they can buy ISK via GTCs]). No cold training? Increased ISK-per-SP rate (consequence of increased SP-per-$ rate), meaning more expensive characters, meaning slower advancement for people who spend a lot of time playing and less of an opportunity for new players to 'catch up' via character buying). Farmers? Really? It doesn't exactly take a ton of SPs to effectively drive a Raven. PvP desire for SP (specifically capital-stage) >> PvE desire for SP. So all this really does is... Effectively "stretch" existing content (specifically end-game skills), or alternately charge more for existing content (as would cost more to reach it) Effectively "grandfather" in older players superiority over newer players (as they bought-the-skills more cheaply) One of the things I liked about EVE was that it trended towards being more about tactics and player skill than "ingame skill." Unfortunately, by making ingame skill harder to come by you're pushing that balance back the wrong way. No further comments required. Well said. The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread
Christine Cormorante Gallente Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:17:00 - [4521] Originally by: Fyrr Deerdan Originally by: rofflesausage They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking If they failed to fix something, does it mean they have to stop trying fixing the rest ? That's a dangerous way of looking globally at a system that you're trying to improve. Strange concept I know, but its customary to fix things that are actually broken. Like windows snapping across the screen from where you locked them last time you logged in. Or warping to 0 to a gate in lowsec, landing at 2750, and hoping to Christ that you coast in the last few meters to jump before that pirate gatecamp turns you into shitstain on the stargate. Did I mention that lag during fleet battles is still a huge problem? Even after Useles....err, Stackless IO? Fix what NEEDS to be fixed FIRST. THEN players might be a bit more receptive to changes like this.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:22:00 - [4522] Originally by: Hong Lihua PLEAZE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF OR ALL YOUR ISK?!!!! This line wasn't funny the first 7 centillion times it was written, either. :/ The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:35:00 - [4523] Originally by: Gunnanmon Originally by: Hong Lihua PLEAZE CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF OR ALL YOUR ISK?!!!! This line wasn't funny the first 7 centillion times it was written, either. :/ Plus it's kinda ironic that some of those who are in favour and high-horsing it over those voicing concerns regarding the change; seem to want free stuff...
Bitchslap Body of Crime CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:52:00 - [4524] Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on. also haha 150th page Okey, let¦s elaborate abit on that shall we, First of all (i dont really care or do i?) just wanted to trow out some toughts 2nd, No one can say they havent used it, when ur account runs out and till you get it activated due to you forgot to renew it or your visa card was renewed and sub. wasint renewed since old visa numbers didnt work or whatever reason we have al used it 1 sec+ or more 3rd, why take it away now after 5 years++++?, means its unfair to newer players v.s older that could use it 4a, How can you say CCP was losing $ on it, do you have any facts to back that up? 4b, Lets say a average established player have say 3 acconts, now the question is why do they have about 3 accounts, reason is mainly becouse EvE have evolved alot since beta, and insted of having to train 300+++ skils on 1 main they prefer to train up a second and prolly a 3rd or more accounts for say freighter pilot, cyno alt/s, stationed traders, rd collectors, spys, cap pilots, etc etc etc...... What will happen now, Some will prolly continue as if it was raining: no change some might move main 2,3 etc to main 1 account : CCP loses income some maybe sell account 2,3 etc keeps main: no change some will quit the game becouse of frustation etc etc etc list is to long : CCP lose income Few will trash all they have including character/account: CCP lose income 4c, Lets say you have a guy/girl that gets 5 accounts and character grinds, and after say 6 Months, 1,2 years etc. sells them, what happence then well he/she will prolly make some isk out of them but not as mutch as if he would be grinding them ingame: end result = market have more options to either start EvE from scratch or buy a skilled character = CCP gets more income regardless 5, The so called ghost training never was, will never be a "bug" or a "wormhole" and/or anyone with some IT background knows its not a "DBM=Data Base Monster" as i see it the offline skill training was a genious move by CCP in the first place 6, So here is my question to CCP or Wrangler directly, what is the main reason you took it away And im not asking about the "2 day notice" or the user guide "we didnt know"/"send in the ninjas" thing or "smokscreen thread"................................ just give the gamer comunity a official good "non coverup" reason for taking it away. thats all we /they ask. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Also on a side note since i see your reading this Wrangler, can you please address this matter asap with a ETA with say 5 months give or take
ninjaholic Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.19 01:44:00 - [4525] STFU you spoiled btards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l btards stop complaining about lag. Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system. Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked. SUPPORT EVE-O's OWN IN-GAME FIGHT RECORD TOOL !!
Staberind	Posted - 2008.10.19 02:01:00 - [4526] Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled btards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l btards stop complaining about lag. Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system. Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked. no, as a matter of fact, i have not actually had the chance to really train while my account is down, maybe a few days here and there, when r/l has taken over a few times, but, i re sub, despite having a couple of months of training missed, why? because i like the game, damn, we all like the game, and its community, thats probably why i'm posting here, as far as being "spoiled for five years" is concerned, i dont agree or disagree, i do however note that, because its been available for five years, many characters older than my two accounts will have been able to use this feature to their advantage, an advantage they keep, despite the fact that new chars start with more sp than they did. so, will they block the selling of ghost trained accounts? and other "advantages" gained through this ? what other measure's will they try to make the game "fairer" ? i dread to think.
Rektide	Posted - 2008.10.19 02:07:00 - [4527] Originally by: ninjaholic STFU you spoiled btards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l btards stop complaining about lag. Get over it. Pay for your f-king time like a normal customer. You've been spoiled for FIVE YEARS so far, and clearly they feel you milked the system. Again I say STFU and pay for your subscriptions. If this were the WoW forums (not that I ever play that trash) you'd probably be time-banned from the forums and every discussion thread about it locked. Unsub training has been a de-facto and official part of this game for 5 years now. I dont understand why you're expressing outrage, why you feel so hurt about something anyone could have taken advantage of if they wanted. I dont understand why you feel injured by this practice, and why you think it shouldnt be permitted? Why have you never brought your apparent out rage to bear against this "injustice" before? You should be outraged they're taking away the means of training the dastardly long skills and you should be using unsub training after we get this feature back in to the game where it belongs. I dont see why you would deny new players who just began using this-- such as myself-- the advantages that longer term players have enjoyed for years. Your bias is clear and direct, CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. This just isnt so. Skill points cost CCP nothing to hand out. There was an opportunity cost CCP did not leverage that allowed players to get towards the end game without spending nearly three quarters of a thousand dollars, and many times CCP made quite a bit of money off these players because unsub training permitted them to rotate through a cast of characters. That you feel personally injured because players weened themselves toward the end game for mere hundreds of dollars instead is delusional and paranoid. If you were in the shoes of someone trying to keep up with joneses and fight 0.0 versus BoB'ites who've been using this en masse for years, maybe you'd feel a little differently.
Rektide	Posted - 2008.10.19 02:15:00 - [4528] Originally by: Staberind so, will they block the selling of ghost trained accounts? and other "advantages" gained through this ? what other measure's will they try to make the game "fairer" ? i dread to think. This has nothing to do with "fairness". CCP will certainly not try and rectify the past actions of what they have only just begun claiming is a "bug". This has been an official part of the game since its inception and they'd have no right to retroactively penalize people who've used a legitimate aspect. The only people this affects are new people trying to join the game old players have played for years. This feature did not descriminate against players; it was available to anyone, there was no injutice. The only thing at stake here is CCP thinking they can make more money. Given the plans of my corp mates, I suspect this will backfire badly. Most players I know are shedding and consolidating accounts. Given that they used to have many more accounts, subbed 50-80% of the time, I think CCP is going to be highly disappointed and massively off target from the number of active accounts they've deluded themselves into thinking they'll have.
Ryuu Katsu Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.10.19 02:29:00 - [4529] To be honest I don't care what your reasons are for this change, it is a bad one. You need to get your head out of the clouds and get real about how people are going to react to your recent business decisions. Good business is not always the bottom line with your current customer base, in contrary to what many on these forums will bible-thump forth and back, for if you don't also consider you customers willingness to pay and their spirit towards your company you may end up losing more than you had hoped to gain in the form of losses to your long-term customer base. Be it in main accounts or alteriour ones. Your quote of: "Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database." Is a weak excuse, you have what 300k subscribers, a few characters on each account, with only 1 training each time, if that is your reason then you are in serious need to upgrade your databases and their code. I really don't know anymore, my frustration with how you have been conducting your business lately is reaching a breaking point for me I fear. For us low on time for playing and casual players you are starting to offer low value for money as it is, with only one character trainable per account, and with high end skills taking weeks up to months to train I find it very hard to justify paying for a clock ticking for such a long period. That is something I would have shadow trained in the past and then come back with new-found interest in the game with the access of a new skill or ship and after a bit of time away. I have been running two accounts for about a year now, but your recent decision to increase the cost of the game by about 20% per day by discontinuing 90D GTCs, and your now publicly untruthfully reasoned end of shadow training, for let's face it the reason is you are hoping to increase your bottom line by this nothing more nothing less, is really starting to push this players willingness to pay away from the utility he feels he would receives in return for such expenditure. I am no doubt alone in feeling in this way, and don't forget that in the light of the world economic downturn, contrary to Keynes suggestion of increased aggregate demand spending in response to such events, most people will start to hold back on luxury expenditures if pushed to far and lets face it, online gaming is one such luxury many may chose is not worth spending money on anymore. ======================== Real men structure tank.
Demonos Silentium	Posted - 2008.10.19 03:04:00 - [4530] Originally by: Ryuu Katsu Your quote of: "Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database." i myself aint that much against this cancelling of a ghost training but this metaphore brought up interesting "countermetaphore" . sure. that 1 snowflake wont feel when the avalanche hits you. BUT that 1 snowflake does make the difference if there will be an avalanche

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