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Disabling ghost training - the blog edition

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Shoopinou Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1351] You did lock the previous topic You warn us 2 days before the change goes in effect ? Usually we have dev blogs for monthes before something (good or bad) goes live. Not this time...
Piter deVriend	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1352] Guys and girls. Do not waste your energy. CCP will never listen to its player base. Iceland is Landsbankrupti and this is their way to make more money hoping that they don't have to eat Fish the entire winter. Whining about it will not help. Petitioning will not help. The only thing that helps is to not pay for alt accounts. We all know (and CCP does too) that you guys will eventually enable your alt accounts again. CCP here are some more ideas: - Walking in stations so you can buy clothes and shit like in the sims. - Disable GTC's - Make the euro standard currency - Make a absurd link between the euro and ingame ISK (not real icelandic krona because our banks don't even accept them anymore) God, let's hope Jumpgate will be a decent game..
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1353] Originally by: Hurint Originally by: Jinx Barker ... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit. qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more _ "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."
Ichinomiya Chiaki	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:06:00 - [1354] 2008/10/15 ghost train to be removed 2009/xx/xx skill point increase when you on-line 2009/xx/xx sorry ccp's traffic is too heavy. so your skill point increase when you OFFLINE 2010/xx/xx new expansion released. but you pay 30$ if you play that contents. and.. addition pay 30$ when you install that. LOL
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1355] Maybe CCP dont want to give an answer? Please CCP Devs, just tell these people to STFU and that you will run the game how YOU want too and dont care if a third of eve EMORAGEQUITS (p.s. I support the removal of ghost training)
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1356] Hmm ok. I only have two accounts, both in the main paid for with Visa although on odd occasions (four times I think in 5 years) I have purchased a GTC. In all that time I have "ghost trained" once, because right there and then I could not afford to play and simply stopped my sub and not my skills. This period lasted for roughly 5 months and my skill had something like 2 weeks left... not exactly ripping anyone off then... As for this new bullshit, well its plain crap. We all know it and that includes you CCP people. I shall be retaining use of my main, this guy, but my industrial alt account will be left to die now so thats another -1 for you. He was never ghost trained, purchased on the first power of 2 and kept active in all that time, go nosy at the details if ya want CCP. I lose him now because you don't deserve the money from him, if you quit with the bull I'll bring him back (not that I expect you to give a **** about what I do anyway).
clone 1 Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1357] Originally by: Nex Abyssus and still no response from ccp? They cannot respond. You are not gona get "Aw, shucks guys, We didnt know it would hurt you so, we changed our minds" Or "This is the way it is, like it or lump it" -: which is a redundant statement They have said what they wanted to say, in two different untruthful ways You want a third lie? (see what I did there Wrangler, a smiley makes things ok) -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Suze'Rain Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1358] Edited by: Suze''Rain on 14/10/2008 10:12:31 well, I would like to add my dissatisfaction with this to the masses. after more than 4 1/2 years as a subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announcement Claiming this is a bug is, frankly absurd. if it is a bug, then claiming it's taken 5 years to fix it is absolute nonsense. will we also get to see all inactive account sales, buy orders, and other market actions suspended? How about multi-race corporations whose CEO goes inactive, do they revert to 10 members from only one race? how about POSes set up by inactive characters, and so on? there's been several occasions where my account has lapsed, from when my 3-day trial (yes, 3 days) completed, and I trained caldari frigate 5 while I decided the game was good enough, to completing the last 2-3 days of a skill after a credit card cancellation, secure in the knowledge that the game was'nt going to miss anything out for those last few days. Now, with this "bugfix", another element of what made CCP stand head an shoulders above the rest of the MMO industry is lost. Another nail in the coffin of showing care and interest for your customers.
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1359] This is just so much bullshit I don't know where to start. You want to talk about unfair ? You think it's fair I can't use my sub on RL Holiday or business trip ? Your still getting paid sub for time I can't play. You think it's fair some people can spend 10 hours a day online while others can only manage 10hours a week online ? You want to start screwing us over like this then it's about time you start billing actual in game time and ditch the subscription for good. Pay to play. Not got the balls tho, have you. Well, I admit I ghost train long skills, I've always re-subscribed. Maybe I won't next time.
Black Prince STK Industrial N.A.S.A	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1360] I don't think "hot topic" accurately describes this issue. 100 pages of posts in a few hours? I think you struck an unpopular nerve this time. I have only ghost trained a few times and that's mainly because I've had to go away to RL for a few months on business or study and it's been nice to come back to a new skill without paying for game time I'm not really using. I understand that CCP is a business and it's all about making money, but eve is more popular now than it's ever been so it strikes me as odd that you'd need to try and get more money out of the player base. I'm pretty sure that there is more money to be made by adding value than taking value away. I fear you will lose a lot of casual gamers and end up losing more money than you gain by doing this. Perhaps this reply will never be read by a CCP person but I hope so and I hope you choose to reverse this decision.
Yoinx Caldari Gemini Sun	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1361] An exploit is an exploit. A bug is a bug. A feature is a feature. A bug can be classified as a exploit. An exploit can be classified as a bug. A feature can never be classified as an exploit or a bug. - I figured I'd put this out there... Since CCP seems confused on this. Once you sell something as a feature you cant turn around and call it a bug. That would be like me selling a car, as is. Then taking the wheels before you leave the lot. Now personally, I'm only using one account. I think I had a second I was gonna start at one point in time, but decided not to. So I dont use ghost training... But seriously. This flip flop you're doing really seems to screw a lot of people. Besides I have to ask. You mention the slight load on the databases... One character is what, like 1 row in like 8 databases? Seriously, unless you have a couple million accounts doing it, since that row is most likely only accessed when that account is actually active, and when you're doing backups/optimizations. I find it really hard to believe that there's that much more load on the servers. ESPECIALLY when you've already got the servers down an hour a day (minimum) for maintenance which gives you an uptime of at best 95.84% per year. Seriously... This isnt even counting the days when the servers are unavailable for patches fixes etc outside that hour a day. So given that amount of time for database management, there's no reason that you should see any impact from these inactive accounts. - I wish I had something witty to put in a signature. -
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1362] Originally by: Suze'Rain after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here
Tharukan Desm'ar Gallente The Ninth Circle Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1363] Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:19:02 Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:17:41 I fully support ccp's doing this. Get what you pay for. Edit: Less alts are good! Might go some length to individual characters/ players being held accountable for their in game actions for once. Its far too easy for corp thieves and pirates to escape the negative aspects of their lives.
Vergil 577 Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1364] Edited by: Vergil 577 on 14/10/2008 10:13:06 I'm posting with my main because this may have a large effect on whether or not I continue to play EVE because the other people I play this game with oppose this idea with so much fervour that IÆll have no reason to play the game anymore. Also before I make a huge wall of text IÆll sum it up. 1) I donÆt disagree with the change 2) I donÆt what they call it 3) The only thing that matters is how itÆs implemented, what happens and why. The reason I donÆt disagree with the change is because if I train a long skill letÆs say Titan 5 but have paid sub before I thought of training that but someone else paid in small enough chunks we both take the same base time to train the skill even when the other guyÆs account has gone inactive, now I must say every should think thatÆs even a little unfair. Also if this causes an increase in profit that means (if the company is in debt) they can pay it off and not get ****ed by the economic crisis or they have more money to upgrade the server otherwise or buy someone like CONCORD some more donuts. The reason I donÆt care what they call it is because I donÆt need someone else to stick a label and denounce it good or evil for me to make up my own mind. LetÆs for example take a war. People die, period, it doesnÆt matter what we say about it people still die. You can call it a bug being fixed or a feature being removed it still doesnÆt make it different. The only thing that happens is why they did it, what it does and how they did it. If itÆs because they want to make more money, all power to them, remember CCP is not some special entity that makes the game for the good of the people, they make it for cold hard cash. ItÆs a business, a firm or whatever you want to call it. How itÆs implemented matters to, for instance I personally disagree with the lack of warning and the race to implement this without prior discussion, which does hint at possible financial difficulties inside the company. Also finally the why of it matters, now if you think before to the 2nd point I make I said I donÆt care what they call it, this is a bit different (just in case). If you letÆs say change the functionality of a module, like the disputed energized regenerative membrane, just because the name suggest different functionality youÆre an idiot. If CCP is doing this to earn money for the game and company ok theyÆre a business if theyÆre doing this to recover or protect themselves from an economic crisis ok, if theyÆre doing this because they truly do believe itÆs unfair and disadvantages other players good, but if theyÆre doing this just to screw with you or because they felt like then itÆs bad. Finally I do think however this is financially a bad idea in the long run. Now IÆm not going to give a run-down in numbers but from the looks of things the amount gained from the activation of account due to skill training may not cover the costs of the drop of subscriptions in the first place. P.S. No you canÆt have all my stuff if I leave itÆs all dying in PvP including my PvE ships, including mining ships, well maybe not that far in case I want to come back but still NO! 602 words
Geanos	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:13:00 - [1365] Edited by: Geanos on 14/10/2008 10:14:48 Well, nice one CCP. A feature that kept me in for a long time and made me return to the game when I was taking a break, has now transformed into a bug. Quoting from your own player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).". Here is the page Account status: suspended. I don't like companies that trick the costumers.
Admrl Cain Caldari CaldaCorp Quantum Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:14:00 - [1366] Edited by: Admrl Cain on 14/10/2008 10:15:42 CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one: F'ing OWND! What really **es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP. You people make me sick, so here's what I'm gonna say, and I think I say it on behalf of the entire or majority of the player base that's been in this game since beta and even the newer guys (ESPECIALLY THE NEWER GUYS!): SCREW YOU CCP, GO TO SCHOOL AND LEARN ABOUT CUSTOMER RELATIONS - PERHAPS EVEN TAKE A COURSE IN "COVERING YOUR ASS". Stupid sons of bi*es. Now let me clarify: If you guys simply said it was a feature that needed to be disabled for so and so reason, I probably would have backed you guys up but instead you decided to be idiots. Now if this was a mistake on Wrangler and the blog post writer calling it a bug or whatever, or the writer of the post (Assuming it was pre-made) then have them BOTH fired before the do more harm to your already FAILING Corporate Standards on PR/CR Public Relations/Consumor Relations... and hire me because at least I know that with my 2 year college degree I could do your job substantially better than you can. AND I'm a CG artist, woooo. Grow up ccp, this is immature BS you're attempting to pull. Btw, False advertising is illegal in many countries. ---------------------------------------- Admiral Cain. Yep, that's right.. mmhmmm
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1367] Personally I'll not be hit by this since I have just one account which I'm keeping active at all times. This however decides whether getting an alt would be worth it - and that's a solid "no" for me as things have developed. It is disappointing though to see such a move from CCP, especially since, as I learned, the question has been brought up before in connection with removing ghost training from the Chinese server, and CCP have stated numerous reasons why they wouldn't do it on TQ. In light of this, the blog seems like a weak attempt at justification with little factual information in it. The statement ghost training has been a bug is simply a lie since it has been acknowledged and actively supported, turning it into a de facto feature, and the innuendo that ghost training characters impose a load on the database servers in any significant way can be perceived as false as well by anyone who knows what a database is. At the end of the day, it's CCP's game and they have the power to do with it as it fits them best. They've not broken any agreement by doing this, and it's even hard to argue it's unethical to try to maximize their profits. However taking away what they've been giving out for years is certainly not a gesture of good will on their part. What it will achieve in reality is that it will hamper players much more than it will generate revenue and CCP cannot be unaware of this. This step speaks volumes about their changing priorities.
DerArt1st Texanican Research and Trade Society	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1368] CCP, you are turning into a pie filled with bullshit.
Falkrich Swifthand Caldari eNinjas Incorporated	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1369] I support this change. The people who benefited the most from "ghost" training were character farmers, alternating between a paid month of short skills and a "ghost" month of long, level 5 skills. Forcing them to pay for the entire time the character is training (money or ISK for gtcs, doesn't matter) should double the price of farmed characters and put a lot of them to the point where they are not profitable. While CCP may see some accounts permenantly lapse, I'd like to think that the majority of accounts actually PLAY the game and don't just switch skills and watch their account expire. I let my account lapse at one point in the past, and set a level 5 skill training like most people. However that skill being trained isn't what caused me to renew my account, because I didn't renew until WELL after it finished, and I don't even remember what it was nullnull My sig is not my sig.
Suze'Rain Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1370] Originally by: Lothris Andastar Originally by: Suze'Rain after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here Really. I'd never guessed that, given I'm not a CCP dev. What I was trying to say is that in the last 5 years, it's increasingly a case that the changes like this are being slipped in under the carpet, so to speak, as last-moment additions with a "oh, by the way" note. and that's what I consider unacceptable, the slide in public relations.
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1371] Originally by: Skogen Gump If people could be less inflammatory and more constructive, we've a better chance of CCP listening to us. Just
Seviere Caldari XBeyond	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:16:00 - [1372] Blog fails so hard it's not even funny. Watch out the direction you're taking CCP. Most of us don't leave game because we are too hooked to it. But most people with multiple accounts will dump them. GTC's are at a criminal price and you guys end ghost training right after a new power of 2 promotion. Also lying and plain assuming everyone is stupid is very bad mkay??? This one will cost you big time.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9 Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:17:00 - [1373] Originally by: Lothris Andastar Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here Actualy mr troll its the customers that PAY ccp to run the game, no customers, no ccp. BTW nobody is forcing you to post, please stop (hey that really works wrangler! makes ya feel all good about being insulting to people)
Shmekla Gallente Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1374] "I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended" Don't you think this is weird?
Piter deVriend	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1375] Originally by: Admrl Cain I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP. He's an idiot. Period. Let's see how CCP people will react at FanFest with all the stunts they pulled the past year. Who brings the tomatoes?
AntonioBanderas The Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1376] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 14/10/2008 10:18:27 jesus fuc.king christ, people, why are you even fuc.king trying? THEY DON'T GIVE A __F_U_C_K__ !!! __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
Vivinc Laloo	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:19:00 - [1377] Edited by: Vivinc Laloo on 14/10/2008 10:19:54 This change and, even more so, this 'explaining' blog is an insult to the players.
MissileBella	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1378] Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me. It's like you really don't like money.
Kyle Broflovski Caldari Imperium Galactica	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1379] Originally by: Shmekla "I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended" Don't you think this is weird? That's how MMOs are made.
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1380] Originally by: MissileBella Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me. It's like you really don't like money. Bye. Noone will miss you Thanks for not making lag!

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... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.