EVE Search - When will GTC sales for isk be banned?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

When will GTC sales for isk be banned?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Supay Caldari The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:54:00 - [1] According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? .
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:56:00 - [2] Posting in a ghost training thread. Also, GET OUT! Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature?
Zephyr Rengate Caldari Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:57:00 - [3]
VmeeX	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? It's your problem that you can't buy GTCs or maybe you are a troll?
Tae'Lin Hynd Simply Planned	Posted - 2008.10.17 20:58:00 - [5] got this one going already in ideas and blobbity bla http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897633 SUPPORT THE BAN OF IN GAME GAINS VIA OUT OF GAME WALLET!!!!!
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:04:00 - [6] Life is unfair
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Khraunus Posting in a ghost training thread. Also, GET OUT! Also also, give me your stuff __________ Originally by: Tortun Nahme nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:28:00 - [8] /hugs OP -- Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
sasha baby	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:35:00 - [9] Edited by: sasha baby on 17/10/2008 21:36:00 the op does have a valid point after those comments by ccp. but it wont ever get changed as ccp makes money with these practices
VmeeX	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:40:00 - [10] The thing about selling GTCs it's obvious that CCP won't ban it, beacause EVE players get fast iskies by selling GTCs and they are happy. And CCP can make money by selling GTCs and they are happy.

Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:42:00 - [11] Originally by: VmeeX The thing about selling GTCs it's obvious that CCP won't ban it, beacause EVE players get fast iskies by selling GTCs and they are happy. And CCP can make money by selling GTCs and they are happy. ...and RMTers sell less ISK and are unhappy. -------- Ideas for: Mining
VmeeX	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: VmeeX The thing about selling GTCs it's obvious that CCP won't ban it, beacause EVE players get fast iskies by selling GTCs and they are happy. And CCP can make money by selling GTCs and they are happy. ...and RMTers sell less ISK and are unhappy. what does RMT stand for?
Gut Punch The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:53:00 - [13] Besides the fact that life isn't fair... Think logically here Supay. Why would CCP kill a source of its income? GTC sales are now all driven directly by CCP and they get a portion of the pie. It exists on top of their monthly income done by subscriptions. Do you really think CCP would shut of a source of income?
VmeeX	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:56:00 - [14] OP is a troll. period.
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.10.17 21:59:00 - [15] SoonÖ?? .. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.17 22:05:00 - [16] I really should stop replying to obvious trolls. In any for-pay service you get... MOAR SERVICE (read: an advantage) if you pay more. 2 accounts > 1 account. 100 accounts > 1 account. He who pays more, gets more. Think about it. The GTC purchase money goes to the company making the game, ostensibly to improve it or buy fishtanks or whatnot. Instead of selling GTCs people with less RL time than RL money would turn to ISK spamers, and that's something none of us want. Contrasting this to 'ghost training' is left as an exercise to the interested reader. Think 'paying less to get an advantage' here to get on the right track.
FluterEx Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2008.10.17 23:09:00 - [17] Ok now let me tell you why CCP supports GTC -> ISK trading. CCP supports this because there are ppl in this World who have the time to play this game a lot but not the money to pay for their accounts (someone who doesnt have a job for whatever reason maybe). Since they can buy GTCs for ISK these ppl are able to play EVE without having to invest RL-currency. Now tell me where is that unfair ? --------------------------------------- CCP Teara, we will all miss you.
Preator Phenix	Posted - 2008.10.17 23:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? FAIL! Now go away we not have use of your kind -Phenix
wdwjhdw	Posted - 2008.10.17 23:58:00 - [19] While CCP might be concerned with unfairness, it doesnt even rate against the importance of their profit. Not that ghost training was removed for reasons of unfairness anyway. Its pretty obvious its to make you subscribe more. When has CCP been concerned about unfairness before anyway?
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.10.18 00:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Faife /hugs OP skank

Pasha Cracken Caldari Thanos and Killjoy Productions	Posted - 2008.10.18 00:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Preator Phenix Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? FAIL! Now go away we not have use of your kind -Phenix We have a use for them, but I cant disclose that information.... -----
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Doc Fury SoonÖ?? .. We can only hope so. Abusive \| Deadspace \| Deadspace2
Ed Gein The Empire Nation	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:13:00 - [23] Edited by: Ed Gein on 18/10/2008 01:16:30 the difference is ghost training makes ccp zero dollars and GTC's make ccp many dollars ccp likes to make many dollars ccp, the original pirates to be completely fair, ghost training is just as much BS as GTC's though, and I am glad its fixed --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight? The Winner.
Dr Caligo	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:22:00 - [24] CCP could not stop GTC for isk sales even if they wanted to. Be happy they now make it so you cannot be scammed with it.
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:47:00 - [25] You are correct. It is illogical that some people can pay for isk with RL currency. But I like to pay for my account with isk Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Obylix	Posted - 2008.10.18 01:58:00 - [26] Hmm, why do most people always reply with TROLL this and TROLL that? The guy has a valid point. Ok so we all know it makes CCP money, and we SHOULD all know that this "video game world" we all play in is actually a BUSINESS not some alternate world where everything is fair. However, it does break certain aspects of the game when a person's character can easily "spawn" 500 million ISK. When I started EVE I worked for my isk, tons of missions, looting, etc. etc. It built skill and experience and created a true sense of loss when I screwed up ( a unique aspect of EVE that other MMOs lack ie WoW ) Now when people can simply sell GTCs because they lost a BS and disregard their failure, it does break the game. I'm not saying it hasn't crossed my mind, I've lost a BS or two and thought "man I'd love to just buy some ISK" but I think all you guys criticizing this guy for making a valid point are lame.
Market Garden Operation Market Garden	Posted - 2008.10.18 02:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Obylix However, it does break certain aspects of the game when a person's character can easily "spawn" 500 million ISK. The person doesn't "spawn" the isk. The trade of gtc simply moves isk from one person to another person. No isk is created or lost from the game, just transfered. In a sense it is in the end just someone else spending the isk which came from someone wealthy wanting to pay for the gametime with isk.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.18 02:09:00 - [28] They're not going to remove GTC for isk sales as long as there's a cash market. Thats the whole point of its existence, if they don't put in a system and take profit, then they're going to simply forgo that profit to farmers. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT?
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.10.18 02:10:00 - [29] One was being taken advantage of by hundreds of players to get skills for free while the other gets CCP money and helps to curb ISK sellers.... hmm, I predict that they will ban this on dec 15 2012. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.18 02:24:00 - [30] GTC to isk is fine for the moast part. As hard as it is to believe there are quite a few eve players who really don't have the rl cash to fund their playtime and can't sacrifice their scant school budget that supplies them with drugs, alchohol and hookers for the satisfiying yet esoteric enjoyment of an MMO like Eve. However they have time aplenty to grind as much isk as they want as who cares about things like studying and trying to excel at thier school work so they can easily afford to spend isk to fund their addiction. Don't you want to be a part of the next generation of adults who will take over forging the future of your country so they can pew pew to their hearts delight and idle their way to graduation and a burger flipper career? Saying that get a **ing job ya scouse **s. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan

Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.10.18 03:24:00 - [31] Originally by: VmeeX what does RMT stand for? real money... trade? transfeR? - putting the gist back into logistics
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.10.18 06:28:00 - [32] again, CCP is too polite to say it, but the bottom line is very simple: As long as CCP gets the money for things is fine. Skill training is easy to fix on accounts, buy/sellorders other things are hard to fudge in the database.. and lets face it... SKILL TRAINING IS MORE VALUABLE THAN BUY/SELL ORDERS OR CONTRACTS. hence why CCP fixed it... If you are WHINING about ghost training.. please.. find yourself a Free to play game... Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Alanna Kereshkova	Posted - 2008.10.18 09:35:00 - [33] Buying and selling GTC is obviously unfair to the folks who cannot afford either hence someone would like it banned. Obviously, as it makes CCP real world money and curbs the illegal sale if ISK therefore it won't be stopped. What is also unfair, if I extend the thought train of the OP, is folks running more than one account at the same time. It effectively is the same arguement, "I only have money for one account and my PC cannot handle running more than one at a time so it should be banned." Now running, say 8 or more play positions by one person is a major feat in itself but has the potential to generate huge amounts of ISK which can be exchanged for more GTC and so pay for itself. Nifty eh? All those folks who run multiple accounts... imagine what Eve would be like if you could only run one toon at a time! Would the Eve population fall by much, a third maybe?
Hellspawn666 Minmatar Master Miners	Posted - 2008.10.18 09:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Shard Merchant They're not going to remove GTC for isk sales as long as there's a cash market. Thats the whole point of its existence, if they don't put in a system and take profit, then they're going to simply forgo that profit to farmers. By that logic why dont most governments around the world make class A drugs legal? I mean they cant stop the market and by trying to stop it they are simply forgoing that profit they can be making. The reason they dont is because when you make such detrimental things legal it opens it up to a new market, sure theres people that dont care if somthings illegal but theres alot who do by making it legal you increase that market. Yes CCP dont lose isk this way but it seems to me more like defeat then anything else, RL money should not determin how much isk you can have. Yes you can buy multiple accounts but there is a limit to that boost (only so many accounts any one person can use at once). As the system stands a rich person can join eve and at day one. Sell bunches of GTCs to make many billions, Buy a high skillpoint character with that isk, sell more GTCS and be in a supercap by day 3. Im sure nothing that extream happens but just the idea that its possible to have that kind of win buttons seems an unbalance to me. Most play this game to get away from life and the financial crisis not just to remodel it. (and before you smack me i could afford to sell plenty of GTC's i dont because ive played this game many years without ever doing so because i find it unethical.)
Mad Mackem E X O D U S	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:01:00 - [35] Ok I'll bite, I have billions of isk so I buy my gametime with it, in effect CCP still get real money for my subscription. If I personally had to pay real cash for this game I would quit, so would many others, CCP loses money=epic fail. So in answer to op, never. Regards
Hellspawn666 Minmatar Master Miners	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Mad Mackem Ok I'll bite, I have billions of isk so I buy my gametime with it, in effect CCP still get real money for my subscription. If I personally had to pay real cash for this game I would quit, so would many others, CCP loses money=epic fail. So in answer to op, never. Regards CCP would defo not loose that much money. 90% of the people saying they would emo quit are always full of dung when it comes to THE CRUNCH they wont. Heck remember all those people saying they were gonna emo quit because CCP wouldnt reinburse them for the server downtime. CCP isnt lead by the marketing department thank christ. Eve isnt an expensive MMO, i managed to afford it when i started at like 15 im pretty sure the average eve player who is around 20 i think can afford that much. If they cant wow they really need to get a job. If you cant afford to keep so many accounts running then everyone should be Skilpoint *****s and just activate the ones you need when you need them.
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:16:00 - [37] Well, obvoiusly CCP is on the right path, since removing ghost training will obviously lose them a lot of $ , still they are willing to make the sacrifice for a fair gameplay So i say we`ll soon see GTC`s go out, just keep an eye on blogs, as CCP is soo busy bringing us news about err...umm..yea...new expansions and all that giz , you may just miss the news . And as we all know those darn forums have a mind of there own and the thread about it may be lost aswell oh and http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=147
Frenchie Spy	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:31:00 - [38] Can someone explain to me how I can get the ISK that the OP is talking about. This seems like the way to go. No running missions or other boring crap. Just spend some money and go PvPing. I have a job and a girlfriend that both take up some of my time, and it seems that using the "GTC" way of funding my Eve life will allow me to compete with the guy that lives in his mommies basement and spends all day ratting in 0.0.
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:46:00 - [39] Edited by: Rawthorm on 18/10/2008 10:46:48 The second CCP bans GTC trading, is the second that a great many of us cancel over half our accounts. No way in hell im paying over $200 a month for a dammed game.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 11:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Rawthorm Edited by: Rawthorm on 18/10/2008 10:46:48 The second CCP bans GTC trading, is the second that a great many of us cancel over half our accounts. No way in hell im paying over $200 a month for a dammed game. Thats what? 14 accounts???

Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 11:09:00 - [41] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Originally by: Shard Merchant As the system stands a rich person can join eve and at day one. Sell bunches of GTCs to make many billions, Buy a high skillpoint character with that isk, sell more GTCS and be in a supercap by day 3. Im sure nothing that extream happens but just the idea that its possible to have that kind of win buttons seems an unbalance to me. Most play this game to get away from life and the financial crisis not just to remodel it. Actually it does happen every so often but you forget to finish the sequence: "...and be in a supercap by day 3, and the star of a comedy killmail thread by day 5". You can buy ISK. You can buy SP. You can't buy brains or experience or knowledge...
Ralara Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.18 12:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Zeba GTC to isk is fine for the moast part. As hard as it is to believe there are quite a few eve players who really don't have the rl cash to fund their playtime and can't sacrifice their scant school budget that supplies them with drugs, alchohol and hookers for the satisfiying yet esoteric enjoyment of an MMO like Eve. However they have time aplenty to grind as much isk as they want as who cares about things like studying and trying to excel at thier school work so they can easily afford to spend isk to fund their addiction. Well then maybe they should get a job to pay for it? If they are unable to do that, maybe they should not play Eve.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.18 12:06:00 - [43] Yes. It's unfair that out-of-game factors can change your in-game situation. Therefore, CCP need to remove the following: Multiple accounts (I can't be arsed with alts, so why should they be allowed for anyone else?) Being online more than 20h/week (I have a life… well, kind of… and it's unfair that others can play more) Being online less than 20h/week (…because, by the same token, it would be unfair if I was to play more than others) Real-time activities (It's unfair that some have better computers and connections and reflexes — everything should be turn-based with no time-limit) On the other hand, as far as I can see, the argument should actually be the exact opposite to the one the OP makes: ghost training was removed because it gave people who didn't pay up the same advantage as people who did pay, so by that token, GTCs should be the only way to gain ISK in-game…
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.18 12:53:00 - [44] GTCs make CCP money. Ghost training doesn't.
Newsflash Gallente NorthUnited	Posted - 2008.10.18 13:03:00 - [45] **, , Motha motha Motha motha Motha , motha ** nyoonch, nyoonch, nyoonch 1,2 1,2,3,4 nyoonch, nyoonch, nyoonch Smoking weed, smoking wiz Doing coke, drinking beers Drinking beers, beers, beers Rolling fatties, smoking blunts Who smokes the blunts? We smoke the blunts Rolling blunts and smoking 'emà Uh, let me get a nickel bag 15 bucks, little man Put that shit, in my hand If that money, doesnÆt show Then you owe me, owe me, owe. Ma jungle love yeah, owe, owe, oh, I think I wanna no ya, no ya, yeah what?!
Pur3Bl00D Minmatar Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.18 13:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: VmeeX The thing about selling GTCs it's obvious that CCP won't ban it, beacause EVE players get fast iskies by selling GTCs and they are happy. And CCP can make money by selling GTCs and they are happy. ...and RMTers sell less ISK and are unhappy. CCP doesnt sell so much more like ppl thing. That happens because the guy who buys the GTC with his isk plays essentially for free... so many ppl tend to forget that, i wonder why . Also if GTC-for-ISK practice is banned, RMT and farmers will go up BIG TIME. Be sure about it.
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.18 13:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Pur3Bl00D Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: VmeeX The thing about selling GTCs it's obvious that CCP won't ban it, beacause EVE players get fast iskies by selling GTCs and they are happy. And CCP can make money by selling GTCs and they are happy. ...and RMTers sell less ISK and are unhappy. CCP doesnt sell so much more like ppl thing. That happens because the guy who buys the GTC with his isk plays essentially for free... so many ppl tend to forget that, i wonder why . Also if GTC-for-ISK practice is banned, RMT and farmers will go up BIG TIME. Be sure about it. Sorry if i`m wrong but you don`t seem to get it CCP DOESNT sell GTC`s for isk. CCP sells GTC`s for real $ . Someone (player x) buys the GTC with real $ then sells it to player y for isk End result : for what CCP cares, the account is payed , someone spent real $ for that gametime, who is the end user of that gametime is largely irrelevant to CCP
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.18 14:47:00 - [48] 1. ccp makes money off of the gtc for isk and isk for gtc trade. Directly in that more accounts are maintained then would be without it (people pay for extra ones with isk, and some people wouldnt play if they couldnt buy isk to get ahead). Indirectly in that people reactivate alot easier when ft doesnt cost em real money. 2. It's good publicity "Icelandic game co tackles RMT problem, is this the first working solution widely accepted by the players ?" 3. CCP set themselves up for additonal avenues of generating extra income out of the RMT-demand that they exists wether they like it or not. Consider buying those neat ship models with isk, directly, because CCP simply charges someone else for the $ and gives him that isk ? Not yet the right time for that, but in a few years we'll be there allright. Bottom line is that gaining skillpoints is part of the package you pay for. CCP may nto have played things smartly when they more or less actively mentioned this as a feature, but that doesn't change that ghost training gets you stuff for free. And no company gives stuff for free unless it ends up with them being better off. This doesn't I guess. [center] Old blog
Korizan	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:02:00 - [49] As much I don't like the whole buying ISK thing. Well GTC sales for ISK provide a legal way to purchase ISK. So by removing it that means those people would resort to purchasing ISK illegally. And as a spin off it allows others to play the game. So your whole thread is in support of ISK farmers. Are you sure you want to go down that path ?
Sarciss Black Legion Command	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:08:00 - [50] Originally by: Supay As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. LOL, not putting anything in? They're out there working their arses off to earn cold hard cash. Either your a slum basement dweller, who lives off of his benefits and parents, or a tennager who could easily do a paper round and earn enough cash for a GTC each week. Don't try and blame people who have suceeded in life as an excuse for your own failure. ------------- Descend, bold traveller, and attain the centre of the Earth.

Void Khan	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:00:00 - [51] Just think of buying GTC with in-game ISK as really expensive prostitution. It will make you feel better about yourself (I know it makes me feel better about myself) and you can look down your nose at anyone who does it. All problems solved.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Zeba GTC to isk is fine for the moast part. As hard as it is to believe there are quite a few eve players who really don't have the rl cash to fund their playtime and can't sacrifice their scant school budget that supplies them with drugs, alchohol and hookers for the satisfiying yet esoteric enjoyment of an MMO like Eve. However they have time aplenty to grind as much isk as they want as who cares about things like studying and trying to excel at thier school work so they can easily afford to spend isk to fund their addiction. Well then maybe they should get a job to pay for it? If they are unable to do that, maybe they should not play Eve. Oh. I covered that in the last part of my poast that you didn't quote. Originally by: Zeba Saying that get a **ing job ya scouse **s. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.10.18 23:18:00 - [53] GTC --> ISK helps both types of players "Only plays few hours a week" sells GTC for ISK "Hardcore, plays non-stop" gets to play for free by buying a GTC for ISK so get over it,this practice is here to stay
Sacul Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Rawthorm Edited by: Rawthorm on 18/10/2008 10:46:48 The second CCP bans GTC trading, is the second that a great many of us cancel over half our accounts. No way in hell im paying over $200 a month for a dammed game. u have 13/14 accounts? lmao i thought i was a freak with 5 and the most i knew of by 1 person was 11....grats you win eve geek of the year p.s. So glad im not in the top 5
Azuraito Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.20 09:32:00 - [55] Bumping a fail thread!
Mal'ol Soddo	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:11:00 - [56] For most things just run through this very simple and non functional program. #define Topic GTC_Sales_Removal if (Topic==More_Cash_For_CCP) { ignore_fanbase(); implement(Topic); } else if (Topic==No_Change_In_Cash_For_CCP) { ignore_fanbase(); ignore(Topic); } else if (Topic==Less_Cash_For_CCP) { ignore_fanbase(); ignore(Topic); } else { ignore_general(); }
Khaeldon	Posted - 2008.10.20 11:48:00 - [57] With the economy going down the shitter, it's actually good for ccp to have richer players give the ones who suffer from economical trouble the option to keep playing with ingame assets.
Serpensis Gallente Value Added Traders	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:05:00 - [58] Edited by: Serpensis on 20/10/2008 12:05:00 It will never be banned. GTC for ISK was introduced as a way for CCP to fight ISK-sellers, and to combat macroers. If you werent such a forum troll, you would know that. Nothing new here, please move on. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Tuttomenui I	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:16:00 - [59] I have only paid $15 so far to play this game, I use isk to pay for my acount because I dont have the money to spend on this game. This is the purpose of the isk for gametime program. So I say take your whinning else where and stop trying to nerf my game.
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:17:00 - [60] Welcome to a fight that was lost over 2 years ago. When the gtc<->ISK trades were considered at least "grey" area and gm's advised against them I was still whining regularly on the forums to get it fixed. I still remember seeing rod blaine in those threads saying the same stuff. Then one day it became ok to trade them and within a few months the secure method came in. And that was it. I came back lately from an extended break and I was told that a specific person actually paid $6.000 in gtc's to buy his own titan (said person also admitted it to me). The wrongfulness of this thing goes in so many ways (apart from the obvious stupid part) that makes me really sad. Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.

Sutraa	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:43:00 - [61] I laughed so hard when I read most of the replies to this. Where is the common sense? "He has more money then me, he can buy a GTC an get isk for it" cries the poor. I spent 350 dollars US last month alone for GTC's to get isk. Don't like it, too bad, suck it up an drive on. How much will I spend in the near future, a whole lot more, why? I have a good job an can afford to, are you crying because you don't? I thank you for the laugh, it was great ... Now go farm me my isk, I will have some more GTC's soon! Bwahahahahahaha
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Feta Solamnia Welcome to a fight that was lost over 2 years ago. When the gtc<->ISK trades were considered at least "grey" area and gm's advised against them I was still whining regularly on the forums to get it fixed. I still remember seeing rod blaine in those threads saying the same stuff. Then one day it became ok to trade them and within a few months the secure method came in. And that was it. I came back lately from an extended break and I was told that a specific person actually paid $6.000 in gtc's to buy his own titan (said person also admitted it to me). The wrongfulness of this thing goes in so many ways (apart from the obvious stupid part) that makes me really sad. Lord2Evil lost his titan fairly quickly. Where's the problem?
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.20 12:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? You have a valid point, but you also have to see that ghost training didn't benefit anyone except the person who was ghosttraining. GTC sale gets CCP more money. Money that is used for the maintinance and develepment of the game, everyone of us profits from that. Also there are more players around with the GTC trade system, more potential targets to shoot at or play with, and we all like to see Eve flourish and grow. The removal of GTC would drop the ammount of players and the money that CCP has available for game development, which is worse than giving people the opportunity to buy their ingame success with rl currency. _________________________________________ Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.60 // Angel Cartel +7.31 // Minmatar Republic -8.56 // Gallente Federation -9.71
Abrynn Minmatar CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.10.20 13:50:00 - [64] Welllllllll....Ghost training didnt make them money plain and simple. GTC's are bought origanly with money and sold securly through CCP for isk soooooo they are making money either way and with the jacked up GTC prices and only 60 days available they are making more money, Besides you know how hard it is to play thins game on GTC's if they removed them they would lose toooooooo much of the player base as a matter of fact when they made only the 60 days they lost thousands of players so getting rid of them completely would be really bad for them
Skaz Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.20 13:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? It's an unfair advantage in an unfair world...ethically it should be banned but practically? I haven't been posting for a year or more, I tried to kick the habit but but.... - - PINK PINK PINK PINK
Midnight Firestarter	Posted - 2008.10.20 15:27:00 - [66] Edited by: Midnight Firestarter on 20/10/2008 15:27:55 Option 1 Work hard, earn Money and can afford to buy GTC so I can relax with my family and friends and still have the goods things in Eve. Option 2 Give up work, grind 18 hours a day, have no friends, get divorced, and lose the right to see the kids. I choose option 1
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:01:00 - [67] As much as I love EVE, there is no way in hell I'd be able to play it without GTCs, being a college student is not cheap.
Tramp Oline	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:17:00 - [68] Here is the big difference: 1) GTC buying - CCP makes money 2) Ghost training - CCP doesn't make money Gaining an unfair advantage is fine. Gaining an unfair advantage without CCP making money is not.
Evileene Evil Conservative Industries	Posted - 2008.10.20 16:29:00 - [69] CCP is only against "unfair" stuff that doesn't result in revenue. The OP is right, if it were about fairness, then GTC sales would be banned, since they do clearly give players with the cash to spend on them an advantage over those who can't. But CCP after the recent changes makes more money off GTC's than they do a regular subscription so this isn't going to go away. --- Support the economy, cut down a tree and set it on fire.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC.	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:20:00 - [70] Originally by: Supay So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? I can sum this up VERY easily on why it will remain as it is. CCP makes a lot of money off it. Period. Nothing else need be said.

Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.20 20:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: Zeba GTC to isk is fine for the moast part. As hard as it is to believe there are quite a few eve players who really don't have the rl cash to fund their playtime and can't sacrifice their scant school budget that supplies them with drugs, alchohol and hookers for the satisfiying yet esoteric enjoyment of an MMO like Eve. However they have time aplenty to grind as much isk as they want as who cares about things like studying and trying to excel at thier school work so they can easily afford to spend isk to fund their addiction. Well then maybe they should get a job to pay for it? If they are unable to do that, maybe they should not play Eve. Been doing it this way for a good four years, I don't think you have any right to tell me or anyone else who's been around that long that "we shouldn't be playing EVE". Get over yourself, you are pathetic. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P	Posted - 2008.10.20 21:11:00 - [72] Originally by: sasha baby Edited by: sasha baby on 17/10/2008 21:36:00 the op does have a valid point after those comments by ccp. but it wont ever get changed as ccp makes money with these practices Exactly. And exactly. The Ghost-training vote thread
ponieus the united	Posted - 2008.10.20 21:54:00 - [73] Edited by: ponieus on 20/10/2008 21:55:19 im not reading this whole thread so if its been said already please forgive me. Look at it this way. Ghost training = CCP not making any money and the player is getting something for free = NO MORE SAYS CCP GTC for isk = CCP getting paid = will always be allowed. no company in their right mind will stop a influx of cash if the players are getting what they want. Meaning a legal way to get ahead in the game via isk with RL currency. Its pretty simple if you sit back and look at it. edit: yeah its been said already I refreshes me to know not everyone doesnt see the big picture here. Just another example of a company taking FULL advantage of its customers.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.20 22:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? Of course it's unfair and unbalancing. Much like having multiple accounts. It comes down though, to being the lesser of two evils - Iskfarmers macroing and selling online are worse. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Supay Or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? This I can do. The difference between selling ISK for real money and selling ISK for ETC is that ETC has a natural limit on the demand side. Unlimited demand for real money ISK has all sorts of really bad effects on the game, and the kind of people that it attracts to service that demand have all kinds of negative effects on the players of the game. If we could wave a magic wand and get rid of everyone who engages in trading ISK for real money, we'd do it, but we'd still keep Secure Trading of ISK for ETC. The natural limit on ETC is playtime. Once a person has accumulated enough ISK to purchase ETC, they no longer need to accumulate ISK for secure trading. Whereas people who are accumulating ISK for real money never reach a limit, and they become 23x7x365 macro runners, and scammers, and all the other vile abusive things that RMT attracts. Once everyone who wants ETCs to play for free has them, the RMT secure trading window closes. And it closes at a fraction of a percent of the volume of ISK for real money. CCP likes the idea that you can play EVE for free via secure trading. We encourage it. Earning enough extra ISK to trade for ETC is a completely viable way to make EVE a free to play game. Getting ISK for trading ETCs allows people to convert real money to ISK in a limited, controlled fashion that doesn't unbalance EVE and turn it into a game where only people who have a lot of disposable income can be important and successful. If a lot of people tomorrow decided to buy ETC and use secure trading, the amount of ISK transferred would not likely change - but the price in ISK for each ETC would go down, a lot. The system has reached a stable point of market equilibrium. And the thing that goes into the EVE economy in secure trading is people playing more EVE. That's good for the whole game - the more players, the better the game experience is for everyone - especially now that StacklessIO and EVE64 have been deployed. Secure trading promotes our #1 goal for EVE: Growth. People who care enough to do the things necessary to accumulate enough ISK to trade for ETC are exactly the kinds of people who make EVE such a fantastic game to play. From our perspective, this is win-win-win. Some people win because they play EVE for free. Some people win because they can convert a limited amount of real money to ISK. And CCP wins because more game time is being sold. Again, the crucial difference is the limit. Unlimited RMT is corrosively bad. Limited RMT for game time is a good thing. The supply & demand in the ETC market is currently transferring ISK for real money at a level we think is harmless. We will continue to monitor it, and if it ever did become a problem we would have to act, but that is unlikely - the system has been running for a long time now and it has shown no signs of degenerating. RyanD

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:18:00 - [76] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 20/10/2008 23:20:58 Originally by: CCP RyanD CCP likes the idea that you can play EVE for free via secure trading. We encourage it. Earning enough extra ISK to trade for ETC is a completely viable way to make EVE a free to play game. Getting ISK for trading ETCs allows people to convert real money to ISK in a limited, controlled fashion that doesn't unbalance EVE and turn it into a game where only people who have a lot of disposable income can be important and successful. The bottom line though for you is a slightly higher amount of RL $ for an ETC than a credit card. If you have 10 accounts, and 5 pay for EVE via credit card @ $15 amonth and 5 pay $36 for two months (or $18 per month) you are going to like the people who wind up paying $18 per month better. It's a win for you, and a lose for the players in EVE who can't be your game time salesmen, basically. You are rewarding players who have money with ISK, turning them into the game time vendor and not leaving you as the sole vendor as the way to let them play. Also, you say limited RMT is "okay" for everyone. Man, if I want to go out and buy $360 worth of ETCs you are not going to stop me from selling them, making nearly 5,000,000,000 ISK (yes, 5 BILLION) for a few hundred "spare dollars". www.siigarikitawa.com
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:28:00 - [77] Quote: If a lot of people tomorrow decided to buy ETC and use secure trading, the amount of ISK transferred would not likely change - but the price in ISK for each ETC would go down, a lot. The system has reached a stable point of market equilibrium. This is false. Since your changes of the gtc market, demand vastly, vastly outstrips supply. I could very confidently go out today and buy enough gtc's to build a titan, without much worry of causing a bottoming out of prices, were I so inclined. Your theory about limited isk only works when supply meets, or is very close to demand. Unfortunately, the global credit crisis, combined with your choosing to eliminate 30 and 90 day gtc's have thrown this out of whack. Your killing ghost training may remove a fair chunk of demand, but that remains to be seen
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:33:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Supay Or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? This I can do. Then please do answer the OP's question rather than deflect it with your RMT vs Secure ETC sales. Reposted for you. Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE?
w0rmy Black Reign The Five	Posted - 2008.10.20 23:58:00 - [79] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Supay Or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? Because we make more money from it. Long forgotten are the days when CCP was more than just a money sucking company, out to line the pockets of its investers. Long forgotten are the days when we actually cared more about providing a quality product than we did about owning Lamborghini's. We've dropped our Open Source approach to bussiness and taken apon ourselves a Microsoft approach. Your opinions mean less to us than your money. RyanD Fixed it for you. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:08:00 - [80] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 21/10/2008 00:10:02 The last four posts are a case in point as to why CCP don't and shouldn't ever consider posting about contentious issues, as this thread should have died an ignoble death ages ago CCP Whoever > This is a reasoned argument as to why CCP hold this position Player 1 > WHAT?! lolol CCP don't know their own game Player 2 > YOU'RE A BUNCH OF STUPID BASTARDS Player 3 > SCREW YOU I WANT MY FREE STUFF Player 4 > WHY ARE YOU POSTING IF YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT OMFG!!!1 Me > Emorage quit already and send me your stuff _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online

Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:09:00 - [81] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa The bottom line though for you is a slightly higher amount of RL $ for an ETC than a credit card. I see someone was never taught what a markup is. Game time retails at 15$ a month. The cards cost more not because CCP is making extra money, but because retailers actually need to made money off it. If CCP would lower the price of a card to even it out at the 30$ line when sold in stores, they would in fact be losing money because it takes money to print and distribute those cards to retailers, plus they get a price markup for profit. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:11:00 - [82] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 00:11:17 Originally by: CCP RyanD Unlimited RMT is corrosively bad. Limited RMT for game time is a good thing. The supply & demand in the ETC market is currently transferring ISK for real money at a level we think is harmless. We will continue to monitor it, and if it ever did become a problem we would have to act, but that is unlikely - the system has been running for a long time now and it has shown no signs of degenerating. RyanD Well not so long ago (april) we had CCP Grimni post in his dev blog warning us of the evils of buying Isk from farmers that Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. This I immediately proved wrong by spending 5 mins researching the days GTC transactions which topped 90 billion. Over 9 times his "very difficult" maximum limit, and, I think we will all agree, 90 billion a day would make it very easy to "upset" the game balance. Further running those figures we came to an estimate of CCP earning 3.5 million dollars a year from GTC --> Isk. This is the real reason you want to keep it going, and drum roll THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!! Just come out with it and say you can afford not to have GTC to Isk.(looking at your recent accounts this is doubly true) SKUNK FIGURES: Figures
Demtalin le'Mercennaire The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:19:00 - [83] Because more people would probably move to isk sellers. I feel better knowing the money for GTC sales goes to CCP to support the game, rather than some isk seller who isn't putting it back into the game. -------- Billy Jean is not my lover
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:20:00 - [84] Originally by: Aloriana Jacques Originally by: Siigari Kitawa The bottom line though for you is a slightly higher amount of RL $ for an ETC than a credit card. I see someone was never taught what a markup is. Game time retails at 15$ a month. The cards cost more not because CCP is making extra money, but because retailers actually need to made money off it. If CCP would lower the price of a card to even it out at the 30$ line when sold in stores, they would in fact be losing money because it takes money to print and distribute those cards to retailers, plus they get a price markup for profit. You're not telling me you aren't thinking of credit card processing fees, are you? www.siigarikitawa.com
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:24:00 - [85] Originally by: Demtalin le'Mercennaire Because more people would probably move to isk sellers. I feel better knowing the money for GTC sales goes to CCP to support the game, rather than some isk seller who isn't putting it back into the game. No. Hes putting it into the mouths of his children SKUNK
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:36:00 - [86] Originally by: Le Skunk No. Hes putting it into the mouths of his children SKUNK Which is nice and all, but there are plenty of legal activities one could do to support one's children _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Ulasim Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:39:00 - [87] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP Gimmins Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. bolded the important part
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:55:00 - [88] Sorry, I'm totally lost here. Are players trying to tell CCP how to run its business? Is this something like going to a McDonald's an telling them "Hey! you said you'd make your food healthier, so the salads are OK but you just need to stop selling hamburgers, you know?" Am I getting this right? ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:57:00 - [89] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 00:59:23 Originally by: Ulasim Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP Gimmins Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. bolded the important part Incorrect. Go look at the 15 pages worth of GTC transactions today. It would be very easy to get 10s of billions as an individual player. its only 20 cards for 10 billion. SKUNK
Kitchie Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp	Posted - 2008.10.21 00:58:00 - [90] Hmmm.... No secure GTC selling system. Then I could buy GTCs for ISK on the grey market without the time being automatically added to my account and so could then sell them for Real Money! A relatively easy way to turn my ISKies into real cash! Somehow I don't think CCP are going to see that option quite so positively so I'm guessing that secure ISK/GTC is here to stay (thank god!).

Dikanal	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Le Skunk Further running those figures we came to an estimate of CCP earning 3.5 million dollars a year from GTC --> Isk. Yes its completely wrong and out of order for a a developer with a huge technical challenge (single server) that's no doubt astoundingly expensive to need money to maintain and further improve the technology. Where do you think the money for consultation from IBM and Microsoft to develop the hardware and software comes from? half of EVE screams "fix the lag!" but it probably needs massive amounts of investment. Why do you think no other MMO even attempts the whole single shard concept?
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:21:00 - [92] Originally by: Dmian Sorry, I'm totally lost here. Are players trying to tell CCP how to run its business? Is this something like going to a McDonald's an telling them "Hey! you said you'd make your food healthier, so the salads are OK but you just need to stop selling hamburgers, you know?" Am I getting this right? No, people are not 'telling CCP how to run its business', but oddly enough the customer base who have an interest in making sure the game works correctly are critically assessing the product. Many people have been loyal members of the EVE community for up to half a decade, so your apparent incredulity at the idea that they should more than passive spectators to CCP policy seems quite absurd. An EVE online divorced from the interests of the players, would not be a place I would like to be. Infact I think it is specifically important for a company such as CCP to listen to the players, because EVE is a niche game, which relies more on customer loyalty than something more mass market like WoW, for example. Please, never ever compare CCP to McDonalds. CCP, despite some of their failings have not (yet) become some large faceless corporation, they have often listened to and engaged with the wants of the customer base and made relevant changes to the benefit of the game. I hope that most of us can agree, that CCP turning into the MMO equivelant of McDonalds would be bad thing indeed. Discouraging people (the people who actually pay for and use the product) from discussing CCP policy is not good for the game. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:24:00 - [93] Originally by: Dikanal Why do you think no other MMO even attempts the whole single shard concept? They would need to have a world that can actually accommodate all of the players, for starters... But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:39:00 - [94] People want isk People is lazy People buy isk If CCP doesn't sell it, people will get their isk some other way. This is why we got GTC, invention, lvl 4 missions and 0.0 belt farming... to make isk so easy to get RMT becomes irrelevant. --- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.21 01:41:00 - [95] Originally by: AleRiperKilt People want isk People is lazy People buy isk If CCP doesn't sell it, people will get their isk some other way. This is why we got GTC, invention, lvl 4 missions and 0.0 belt farming... to make isk so easy to get RMT becomes irrelevant. There is a fallacy in your thinking. EVE is small enough almost EVERY instance of isk buying is caught. Because of that, there is no true need for isk buying from CCP anyway. www.siigarikitawa.com

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.10.21 02:04:00 - [96] Originally by: Le Skunk Well not so long ago (april) we had CCP Grimni post in his dev blog warning us of the evils of buying Isk from farmers that Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. Well I'll apologize in advance to my friend Grimni, but you can pretty much take it as a given that when we want to talk about quantified numbers in relationship to the economy (in or out of game) we defer to Dr. EyjoG. We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, and how that relates to the size of the whole EVE economy. So far, we have not seen anything in the ETC market that concerns us that too much ISK is being exchanged for ETCs in comparison with overall market trends over time. RyanD

Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.10.21 02:18:00 - [97] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, Wat? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Jethro Jechonias Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 02:58:00 - [98] Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 21/10/2008 03:00:35 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, Wat? Translation: CCP doesn't care about 1 person trading 10 billion ISK in GTC's. CCP does care about 50,000 people trading 5 trillion ISK in GTC's. If the latter starts to happen we can expect changes, but according to what RyanD has said, CCP does not see the market trending in that direction. Note: reference numbers choosen for convience, they may be orders of magnatude off of what CCP actually conciders to be safe or harmful.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:00:00 - [99] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 21/10/2008 03:04:15 Are you sure? Cause even that makes my head hurt. Couldn't it be the other way around? RyanD, halp _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:02:00 - [100] well the idea is that they don't want EVE to center around the GTC trade. They don't want the server basically segregated between ISK earners (GTC buyers) and GTC sellers. As long as the GTC trade remains relatively small (small relative to the whole population of EVE), it should be fine., amirite? Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.

Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:05:00 - [101] GTC trade for isk will be banned the exact same moment irritating repeat threads are I promise Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:12:00 - [102] Originally by: Tortun Nahme GTC trade for isk will be banned the exact same moment irritating repeat threads are I promise Why do we have to link good things with terrible things in such a way? Can't we have our cake without someone mockingly eating it in front of us while we hunger for delicious cake? _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:42:00 - [103] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa EVE is small enough almost EVERY instance of isk buying is caught. Because of that, there is no true need for isk buying from CCP anyway. There is no need because it is pretty easy to get isk by grinding missions or farming and that is what people asking to nerf lvl4 don't get. The whole idea is to make isk farming so easy buying isk is not worth the risk. --- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy	Posted - 2008.10.21 03:59:00 - [104] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Tortun Nahme GTC trade for isk will be banned the exact same moment irritating repeat threads are I promise Why do we have to link good things with terrible things in such a way? Can't we have our cake without someone mockingly eating it in front of us while we hunger for delicious cake? because the imp of the perverse obeys moi of course I like griefing humanity, hence I convinced him to make the "cake and eat it too" conundrum Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:13:00 - [105] Quote: If you have 10 accounts, and 5 pay for EVE via credit card @ $15 amonth and 5 pay $36 for two months (or $18 per month) you are going to like the people who wind up paying $18 per month better. Dont forget that company's, ie shatteredcrystal etc get a small percentage of that $35. So CCP would probs make around the same as someone paying via credit card. ----------------------------
Volarius D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:19:00 - [106] They should ban GTC's. I remember in a devblog not too long ago, they said they want everyone that plays eve to have the same chances ingame, regardless of real life circumstances. Yet at the moment the richer you are in real life, the more ISK you can buy legally through this GTC system. I know of several people who are loaded with ISK and even one that was able to fund his own titan using GTC's.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:24:00 - [107] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 00:59:23 Originally by: Ulasim Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP Gimmins Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. bolded the important part Incorrect. Go look at the 15 pages worth of GTC transactions today. It would be very easy to get 10s of billions as an individual player. its only 20 cards for 10 billion. SKUNK And I say if some nut-bar wants to sell, what now? call it 140-150 cards to buy himself a Titan, then what difference will it really make? There are close to 100 titans in the game now, so he's not going to turn the tide of any major war with it. If he uses it in a minor one then he'll attract the attention of alliances like PL or Tri or Outbreak who will cheerfully go 30 jumps to kill a titan. So he'll get to use his $5500 e-peen maybe 5 or 10 or 12 times then lose it. The only real issue I have with GTC sales is that there's no consequence of selling to ISK farmers. And I'm not sure how that could be fixed anyway.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:24:00 - [108] Originally by: Plim You are correct. It is illogical that some people can pay for isk with RL currency. But I like to pay for my account with isk There are so many parts of human nature that are illogical and yet completely unavoidable. During the dry spell in the United States they tryed to ban alchohol because they thought it was the root of all voilence, however, they were wrong, violence only increased as gangs grew inspite of the new regulations. Drugs are another such example. Restrict the ability to do something, and it will be done in more vigor than ever. Same concept goes with EVE. You ban ISK / Money trading via an indirect method, you get larger more resilient alliances dedicated to ISK / Money generation. At least this way they can keep track of people who are doing it for fun / game purposes and those who are not. Semper Fi
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:29:00 - [109] Originally by: CCP RyanD The supply & demand in the ETC market is currently transferring ISK for real money at a level we think is harmless. How much would that be? Something like 5000 60d GTCs for about 2.5 trillion ISK per month?
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:32:00 - [110] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, Wat? In other words, they look at the total ISK value of ETC over time, not the total ISK value for this day or that week. I infer from his post that the total value of ETC trades is not high enough to be considered a significant economic factor. Pulling numbers out of the air: eg there are 90 bill worth of ETC card sales active at this moment, with those sales taking an average of eg 2 days to complete. Thus ETC is worth 45B/day. But the total size of the eve economy is several orders of magnitude larger than 45B/day (I think I recall reading that something like 975 billion ISK is created* every day, never mind what is exchanged.) By way of comparison, you may recall my back-of-an-envelope calculation that a single level 4 hi-sec agent was potentially worth more than 100B/day. *45B for the sake of argument. No idea what the true figure is, but even if it's 5x that much, the argument holds.

Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:13:00 - [111] Edited by: Dmian on 21/10/2008 08:14:00 Originally by: Plim ...so your apparent incredulity at the idea that they should more than passive spectators to CCP policy seems quite absurd. An EVE online divorced from the interests of the players, would not be a place I would like to be. Infact I think it is specifically important for a company such as CCP to listen to the players, because EVE is a niche game, which relies more on customer loyalty than something more mass market like WoW, for example... ...Discouraging people (the people who actually pay for and use the product) from discussing CCP policy is not good for the game. So, you are telling me that CCP, the company who created the CSM to have a body of player representatives to discuss players interests, is not listening to the player? Interesting... Are you a CSM candidate? ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:18:00 - [112] Edited by: Sokratesz on 21/10/2008 08:19:04 Edited by: Sokratesz on 21/10/2008 08:18:23 Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: Le Skunk Well not so long ago (april) we had CCP Grimni post in his dev blog warning us of the evils of buying Isk from farmers that Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. Well I'll apologize in advance to my friend Grimni, but you can pretty much take it as a given that when we want to talk about quantified numbers in relationship to the economy (in or out of game) we defer to Dr. EyjoG. We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, and how that relates to the size of the whole EVE economy. So far, we have not seen anything in the ETC market that concerns us that too much ISK is being exchanged for ETCs in comparison with overall market trends over time. RyanD Some information on the subject would be nice because as it stands now the situation and your 'threshold' are unknown to us so ccp can pretty much do what they want and not care. For something that affects the entire economy in such a (supposedly) enormous manner, I'd say that is unacceptable. You try and gain legitimacy for certain actions by employing a RL economist but on the other hand have your virtual economy poisoned by something silly as gtc -> isk. You claim to have built a very lifelike and harsh virtual world. GTC->ISK does not fit in there.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:49:00 - [113] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/10/2008 08:50:29 Neither would unemployed v employed now would it ? Factors influencing player success ingame are mostly external to the game itself. Time, intelligence, social skills, and yes, wealth. To arbitrarily exclude wealth from that list because of a feeling that including it would be ¦unfair¦ is not a valid argument at all. I feel the same about it as you do, however I recognize that the GTC for isk system is a grandiose improvement over the situation in just about every single other MMO. We should be glad to have it, even if we despise the influence of wealth on gameplay on an emotional basis. Reality > * [center] Old blog
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:57:00 - [114] Originally by: Sokratesz ... have your virtual economy poisoned by something silly as gtc -> isk. You claim to have built a very lifelike and harsh virtual world. GTC->ISK does not fit in there. OMG is my isk poisoned? Oh noes, where can I get the antidote? Should I go see an isk doctor? Other than online poker/gambling I can't think or many other games where I can reach out and blow up my enemies wallet and pick up some of the pieces and put it in my own. Sounds pretty harsh and lifelike to me. I think if people told the truth, when they lose a ship that they payed real life $$$ for, it hurts. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:27:00 - [115] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 09:27:04 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 00:59:23 Originally by: Ulasim Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP Gimmins Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. bolded the important part Incorrect. Go look at the 15 pages worth of GTC transactions today. It would be very easy to get 10s of billions as an individual player. its only 20 cards for 10 billion. SKUNK And I say if some nut-bar wants to sell, what now? call it 140-150 cards to buy himself a Titan, then what difference will it really make? There are close to 100 titans in the game now, so he's not going to turn the tide of any major war with it. If he uses it in a minor one then he'll attract the attention of alliances like PL or Tri or Outbreak who will cheerfully go 30 jumps to kill a titan. So he'll get to use his $5500 e-peen maybe 5 or 10 or 12 times then lose it. The only real issue I have with GTC sales is that there's no consequence of selling to ISK farmers. And I'm not sure how that could be fixed anyway. Indeed - if he buys one ship. But what if the nut bar uses the isk to pay others to effect the balance of power in the game? You could easily get whole alliances booted out of 0.0 space for the sorts of isk easily accessible via GTC to isk. Or have individual players perma griefed. Or cover the losses from your trade venture which undercut the little guy who spent 3 months working his way up. Or keep buying battleships for your corp at war untill you out resource your enemy corp and they have to leave the area. If the idea is CCP need the revenue it brings in, you may have a point But the idea that GTC->ISK its not affecting anyone in game is a massive lie. Its effecting everyone every day. Oh my rooks been taken in chess, heres my mastercard - ill buy another. Damn, my football team is losing, Ill buy a couple of goals SKUNK
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:41:00 - [116] I checked the Skunk's figures, they look correct. About 116 billion traded per day. I am confused on Titan-prices, but is it half a Titan a day or a Titan a day, roughly? About 42 Trillions per year. That's something like 1000 Motherships, if I get the Nyx prices right. Originally by: Le Skunk stuff You are wrong. You can't kill your enemy if you keep suiciding dozens of BSes to kill his 1 BS, just because you have more resources. Suiciding dozens and dozens of BSes will just get your opponents morale high enough to recruit buttload of PVPers and kick YOU out of space. You win by breaking the opponent's will to strugle. By killing him, while denying him kills (through blob, lag or tactics) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:47:00 - [117] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 09:27:04 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 00:59:23 Originally by: Ulasim Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP Gimmins Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. bolded the important part Incorrect. Go look at the 15 pages worth of GTC transactions today. It would be very easy to get 10s of billions as an individual player. its only 20 cards for 10 billion. SKUNK And I say if some nut-bar wants to sell, what now? call it 140-150 cards to buy himself a Titan, then what difference will it really make? There are close to 100 titans in the game now, so he's not going to turn the tide of any major war with it. If he uses it in a minor one then he'll attract the attention of alliances like PL or Tri or Outbreak who will cheerfully go 30 jumps to kill a titan. So he'll get to use his $5500 e-peen maybe 5 or 10 or 12 times then lose it. The only real issue I have with GTC sales is that there's no consequence of selling to ISK farmers. And I'm not sure how that could be fixed anyway. Indeed - if he buys one ship. But what if the nut bar uses the isk to pay others to effect the balance of power in the game? You could easily get whole alliances booted out of 0.0 space for the sorts of isk easily accessible via GTC to isk. Nah, I don't think you could tbh. People buy ISK for themselves not for others, for one thing. For another, 20 or 30 or 40 bill just doesn't last very long in inter-alliance warfare. That'll buy you out of losing maybe 2-3 biggish fights, or just 1 if it's cap-heavy. But it won't stop you losing any subsequent fights. A large alliance like Razor or BoB will generate that much ISK in a day without thinking. Your GTC magnate can match that kind of ISK generation for a while... till his dollars run out. A decent 0.0 alliance will just keep the ISK rolling in with no particular effort, especially since they're picking up all that nice T2 loot and salvage from the battles you don't care about losing.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.21 09:52:00 - [118] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 21/10/2008 09:53:23 A gtc seller has no hope at all of competing with large 0.0 alliances in terms of isk supply. You¦d need to generate dozens of billions of isk each and every day for that. That¦s alot of dollah ! And anyway, in 0.0 alliance warfare isk is next to meaningless. Very heavy sustained cap losses might bleed a good alliance dry eventually, but way before that those loses will have cost him enough in participation to make the isk cost a moot point. [center] Old blog
Max Teranous Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.21 10:05:00 - [119] Originally by: Delichon I checked the Skunk's figures, they look correct. About 116 billion traded per day. I am confused on Titan-prices, but is it half a Titan a day or a Titan a day, roughly? About 42 Trillions per year. That's something like 1000 Motherships, if I get the Nyx prices right. To put that figure further into perspective, according to the recent QEN the total trade on the market in eve for the month of December 07 was 80 trillion, or about 2.66 trillion per day. That will have gone up in the past 10 months, but even assuming it hasn't then the GTC trade is under 5%. Once you add contracts, direct trades and taking into account 10 months of growth the percentage is probably ~3%. Not a large percentage, and hence not a big deal IMO. Certainly the advantages that the GTC trade brings is worth it. Max
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:48:00 - [120] Originally by: Max Teranous To put that figure further into perspective, according to the recent QEN the total trade on the market in eve for the month of December 07 was 80 trillion, or about 2.66 trillion per day. That will have gone up in the past 10 months, but even assuming it hasn't then the GTC trade is under 5%. Once you add contracts, direct trades and taking into account 10 months of growth the percentage is probably ~3%. Not a large percentage, and hence not a big deal IMO. Certainly the advantages that the GTC trade brings is worth it. Max Ok, that's sounds logical, thanks. I was too lazy to read the most recent economic blog ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun

Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:12:00 - [121] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2008 16:14:04 Originally by: Delichon I checked the Skunk's figures, they look correct. About 116 billion traded per day. Thanks for checking the figures, I made it around 90 billion isk a day. 116 bill wouldnt suprise me. Originally by: Max Teranous To put that figure further into perspective, according to the recent QEN ...not a big deal IMO. Certainly the advantages that the GTC trade brings is worth it. Ahh the QEN. I took a look at the most recent QEN and it indeed showed some more interesting stats THE BIG PICTURE Did you know for example, the 4 most popular ships per race are the Raven, Domi, Geddon, and Tempest. Far and away the most popular being the raven (big suprise). An Attempt at a Little Table SHIP----SOLD PER MONTH----COST-----TOTAL Raven--------14000------90,000,000-----1,260,000,000,000 Domi---------6000-------50,000,000------300,000,000,000 Geddon-------2500-------50,000,000------125,000,000,000 Pest---------2000-------50,000,000------100,000,000,000 Now my maths is poor, but ill put this up there for someone with a calculator to rip down if its wrong. For ease of calculation using the 100billion isk a day GTC trade (as I worked out 90 billion during one days trading in april, and Delichon has since worked it out more recently at 116 billion) thats three trillion isk a month in gtc trade. As you can see, if this is true, GTC trade could comfortable buy all of the above BS sold last month. Now DrEyeog says these are the most popular of each race, which means we can make a rough guess at the amount of other BS sold. I would go as far to posit GTC TRADE TO ISK EACH MONTH IS EQUIVALENT TO EVERY SINGLE BATTLESHIP SOLD ON THE MARKET THAT MONTH Further information he gives us is that an avergae of 955 billion units of minerals were sold that month. 75% of which was tritanium. So 710 billion Trit sold. At 3 isk per unit of trit we again see: GTC TRADE TO ISK EACH MONTH IS EQUIVALENT TO EVERY SINGLE UNIT OF TRIT SOLD ON THE MARKET THAT MONTH Actually its well over. How ANYONE can sit there and tel me that being able to buy every single BS traded in the game each month with GTC isk is "not a big deal" I dont know.This is immense, game changing amounts of isk flooding into the game. THE LITTLE PICTURE: Looking at the little picture, Dr Eyeog also says "Miners compete in the mining sector investing significant effort to increase their efficiency by just 1% at a time.. but that 1% is often what makes or breaks a mining mogul" So we have all these players spending time grinding their skills up in cutthroat busines where 1% make or breaks people success and ultimate enjoyment. And some pleb comes along and buys a GTC with his dads credit card and BANG all that hard work down the shitter SKUNK Disclaimer i) My maths is shit - i invite corrections. ii) Dont say "CCP NEED THE MONEY" i wouldnt disagree with that. My point is aimed at those who think its "not a big deal" or "not game changing" iii) Using US billions and trillions
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:30:00 - [122] They should increase the supply of GTCs, the prices have risen 50m in a week since last I bought. Prices are growing out of control.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:35:00 - [123] Originally by: Gamer4liff They should increase the supply of GTCs, the prices have risen 50m in a week since last I bought. Prices are growing out of control. I think you missed the entire point of the devpost. Supply and demand keep it in check. What you're seeing right now is one of those checks and no CCP is -not- going to remove this check. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:49:00 - [124] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Originally by: Gamer4liff They should increase the supply of GTCs, the prices have risen 50m in a week since last I bought. Prices are growing out of control. I think you missed the entire point of the devpost. Supply and demand keep it in check. What you're seeing right now is one of those checks and no CCP is -not- going to remove this check. No. Demand is high and supply is low, so individual GTC sellers can make massive amounts of isk from just a few GTC sales. That's not 'keeping it in check'. The current current ratio of supply to demand is part of the problem. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:53:00 - [125] Edited by: Malcanis on 21/10/2008 16:54:29 Originally by: Gamer4liff They should increase the supply of GTCs, the prices have risen 50m in a week since last I bought. Prices are growing out of control. Who is "they"? CCP? They should start selling their own GTCs for their own ISK? Players? Times are tough, mi amigo, and not so many people are willing to drop extra cash on buying extra-shiny internet pixels now just so you can play for free. Dollars have risen vs the ISK: suck it up.
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:03:00 - [126] This is in response to skunks gtcs can buy all the bs in the game post. Who buys t1 gear with gtcs? I have sold lots of gtcs, I won't lie, so I will use myself as an example. I don't use gtcs to buy another t1 bs with t2 gear. I use gtcs to buy officer gear for my mission ship, which i don't like flying cause lvl 4s are too easy with a 6 bil ship (setup and implants. Go figure that buying isk makes the game boring. Also, i use the isk to buy officer fitted dreadnoughts, which i have very promptly lost. Now, i lost my dreads in faction warfare, and it was a ton of fun, for myself, my friends, and the people that killed us. I gained nothing other than fun from it, and all those involved in my "unfair" gameplay enjoyed it as well. Now, my argument is not that gtc -> isk is harmless because I'm not using it for some grand advantage. My argument is that most people buying isk, are not throwing it into cheap stuff. They are buying those 2 bill officer mods, or officer fit cap ships. Which are being used for missions, or die just as easy in pvp. I have yet to see the amount of isk that makes you immune to lag or the blob. And the argument that people are buying moms and titans and such, it has already been pointed out that no one buys enough of these to change in game dynamics for more than a few battles. And besides, if you knew that ship you just killed, cost that guy $5000, would you feel more or less satisfied??? Personally, i feel there is no unfair advantage to allowing people to buy isk, in its current form. You are essentially paying for someone else's time. Since some people have more time and others have more dollars. It could be argued that if we have to keep the game fair, everyone can only be allowed to play as many hours as whoever has the least access to eve. I spend my time grinding real dollars, so i can buy my fake dollars, cause it takes me less time to make real money, than fake money. Just my thoughts.
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:08:00 - [127] Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 21/10/2008 16:54:29 Originally by: Gamer4liff They should increase the supply of GTCs, the prices have risen 50m in a week since last I bought. Prices are growing out of control. Who is "they"? CCP? They should start selling their own GTCs for their own ISK? Players? Times are tough, mi amigo, and not so many people are willing to drop extra cash on buying extra-shiny internet pixels now just so you can play for free. Dollars have risen vs the ISK: suck it up. I must agree with this man, CCP already sells unlimited gtcs. You can buy a billion gtcs right now. They are not holding back on customers, people simply aren't buying them. The reasons are 2 fold though. People get more isk per gtc, but at the same time, if you can afford X amount of gtcs, why buy less simply cause you got he isk you need. Most people would give in to greed and buy what they can afford, not what they need. And then of course real economy causing people to buy less gtc's to sell, and causing more players to try and switch to gtcs. This causes a double sway in the supply demand, as sellers are becoming buyers.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:34:00 - [128] Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, and how that relates to the size of the whole EVE economy. Well that was pretty brain-twisting, wasn't it? :) What I am trying to say here is that we're not looking at what happens on one day, or even several days in a row. We're looking at what the trend is over time, and how that trend compares to other aspects of the EVE economy. There's no magic formula that says "when ETC secure trading exceeds X% of Y Market Indicator, we have a problem". Instead, what we do is look at how the whole market is reacting and responding to various stimuli, and making notes. When odd things happen, people start asking questions to see if we can untangle the root causes. If (not when, if) we decide that something unstabalizing has happened due to secure trading, then we'll have to take some action. Currently we're not seeing any kind of significant market distortion, or metagaming, that appears to be driven by Secure Trading. Just remember we're not looking at specific days, we're looking at long term trends. RyanD

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.21 19:09:00 - [129] Originally by: CCP RyanD Originally by: CCP RyanD We're not so concerned with the amount of ETC sales in any given time period as we are with the amount of ETCs over a period of time, and how that relates to the size of the whole EVE economy. Well that was pretty brain-twisting, wasn't it? :) What I am trying to say here is that we're not looking at what happens on one day, or even several days in a row. We're looking at what the trend is over time, and how that trend compares to other aspects of the EVE economy. There's no magic formula that says "when ETC secure trading exceeds X% of Y Market Indicator, we have a problem". Instead, what we do is look at how the whole market is reacting and responding to various stimuli, and making notes. When odd things happen, people start asking questions to see if we can untangle the root causes. If (not when, if) we decide that something unstabalizing has happened due to secure trading, then we'll have to take some action. Currently we're not seeing any kind of significant market distortion, or metagaming, that appears to be driven by Secure Trading. Just remember we're not looking at specific days, we're looking at long term trends. RyanD Some of us, the players are saying SOMETHING IS WRONG in the long term. Ugh, if I could pay isk to solve some of real life's problems (rent, bills, food, etc), my life would be so much better. In the long term, I mean. www.siigarikitawa.com
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.21 20:20:00 - [130] Originally by: CCP RyanD What I am trying to say here is that we're not looking at what happens on one day, or even several days in a row. We're looking at what the trend is over time, and how that trend compares to other aspects of the EVE economy. Currently we're not seeing any kind of significant market distortion, or metagaming, that appears to be driven by Secure Trading. Just remember we're not looking at specific days, we're looking at long term trends. RyanD Ive checked several random days worth of gtc sales over a period of time, and 90 bill a day seems to stand up. You don't consider the GTC-to isk value being equivalent to EVERY BATTLESHIP sold on the market (from Dreyeog figures) to be significant? SKUNK

Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 20:32:00 - [131] As it is my day for minor trolling .... I predict the second coming of JC, Armageddon or some other apocalyptic event will happen before CCP shut off their cash income from the GTC <-> ISK trading system. Cheers, Ruf.
Scarlet Wintersun	Posted - 2008.10.21 20:57:00 - [132] Originally by: Rod Blaine ..... however I recognize that the GTC for isk system is a grandiose improvement over the situation in just about every single other MMO. We should be glad to have it, even if we despise the influence of wealth on gameplay on an emotional basis... Quoting this. I really like concept of secure ISK trading - if there were no such thing, we would probably see much more isk farmers and ilegal ways of obtaining ISK. I played a lot of MMOS, and this is really good solution. CCP, please don't listen to whiners, things are going well, why change it.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:01:00 - [133] Originally by: Le Skunk You don't consider the GTC-to isk value being equivalent to EVERY BATTLESHIP sold on the market (from Dreyeog figures) to be significant? I'm saying there's no significance in any "X% of Y metric". We look at the whole economy for abnormal behavior. RyanD

Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:06:00 - [134] Originally by: Le Skunk Ive checked several random days worth of gtc sales over a period of time, and 90 bill a day seems to stand up. You don't consider the GTC-to isk value being equivalent to EVERY BATTLESHIP sold on the market (from Dreyeog figures) to be significant? SKUNK 90 billion per day, as compared to the ~2 trillion traded per day on the market and the 80 trillion in the EVE economy (as isk, I'm assuming) as a whole I know I'm certainly losing it over 3% of the daily eve economy being based upon real life card sales _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:07:00 - [135] What's the current rate for GTC cards?
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:08:00 - [136] Originally by: Joshua Calvert What's the current rate for GTC cards? 400-600m for 60d, or 7-10mil per day for $35 _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:10:00 - [137] Originally by: Joshua Calvert What's the current rate for GTC cards? 450 to 550 mil, depending when in the day you buy.
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:10:00 - [138] Originally by: Reptzo Originally by: Joshua Calvert What's the current rate for GTC cards? 450 to 550 mil, depending when in the day you buy. How does the exchange work?
Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:16:00 - [139] Originally by: Joshua Calvert How does the exchange work? You go into your account page, enter buyers name, price, and code, they log in their account page and accept. It is explained in better detail on the timecode forum.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:19:00 - [140] Originally by: Reptzo You go into your account page, enter buyers name, price, and code, they log in their account page and accept. It is explained in better detail on the timecode forum. Link here, as the thread in question has become unstickied _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online

Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:21:00 - [141] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: CCP RyanD What I am trying to say here is that we're not looking at what happens on one day, or even several days in a row. We're looking at what the trend is over time, and how that trend compares to other aspects of the EVE economy. Currently we're not seeing any kind of significant market distortion, or metagaming, that appears to be driven by Secure Trading. Just remember we're not looking at specific days, we're looking at long term trends. RyanD Ive checked several random days worth of gtc sales over a period of time, and 90 bill a day seems to stand up. You don't consider the GTC-to isk value being equivalent to EVERY BATTLESHIP sold on the market (from Dreyeog figures) to be significant? SKUNK And I repeat: that's the value of one level 4 hi-sec agent. Yeah it's a lot of battleships. BS are one component of one sector of one region of the economy.
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:18:00 - [142] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 21/10/2008 22:18:14 Damn it, I reported a post instead of reply. Originally by: Reptzo Originally by: Joshua Calvert How does the exchange work? You go into your account page, enter buyers name, price, and code, they log in their account page and accept. It is explained in better detail on the timecode forum. Thanks for that - seems like a sweet way to do it.
Amarkon	Posted - 2008.10.23 00:49:00 - [143] <<...timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system...>> Hopefully it's several years, to make it fair/even for the number of years cheap skates have been taking advantage of the system. Hello, you got to pay to play. I can see how some people have probably played the system to just create alts to sell in the character forums. Now they are here to whine about fairness after they've been not very fair themselves. As a player I applaud this action by CCP.
Max Teranous Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.10.23 13:45:00 - [144] Originally by: Le Skunk You don't consider the GTC-to isk value being equivalent to EVERY BATTLESHIP sold on the market (from Dreyeog figures) to be significant? No, because you seem to think that Battleship sales makes up a massive part of the economy. It doesn't, it's just a few percent. Just like GTC. 90 bil a day is a small, small number in terms of the whole ecomony even if it looks like a big number to you. Max
Drykor Minmatar H A V O C Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.23 14:27:00 - [145] Obviously the real reason why CCP will allow GTC's and not real money trading is because in the case of GTC's, CCP gets the cash, there's no way around it, eventually it ends up at CCP. This is a perfectly valid reason and I don't see the reason why CCP would want to lie about it. Obviously it does upset game balance in a way that I never liked in an mmorpg, real life advantages give you an advantage in an online game.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:40:00 - [146] Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 23/10/2008 15:44:13 Originally by: Supay So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? Take a look at the current GTC market - demand is huge and supply is low, resulting in a significant price increase (~40%), so don't think every other player out there is selling GTC's. In fact, people (your fellow players) are begging more EVE players to buy more GTC's to bring prices back down. Heres the deal: 1)Not Everyone Can Pay2Play With Hard Currency, GTC's help this. 2)CCP Wants Hard Currency, GTC's help this. 3)Some Players Will Pay Hard Currency For ISK, GTC's help this. Then here comes #4, 4)Some players are whiners. Now lets take a look without GTC's: 1)Not Everyone Can Pay2Play With Hard Currency, CCP Loses Customers (AKA Money). 2)CCP Wants Hard Currency, CCP Makes Less Hard Currency. 3)Some Players Will Pay Hard Currency For ISK, They Use Chinese ISK Sellers & Get Banned And CCP Loses Customers (AKA Money). And.... 4)People still whine.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:52:00 - [147] Originally by: Drykor Obviously it does upset game balance in a way that I never liked in an mmorpg, real life advantages give you an advantage in an online game. People will pay RL cash for in-game items or ISK, with or without GTC's. Its just a fact of life in a MMO. CCP has just decided to give players a legal means of providing players with the ISK they desire and the cash CCP desires. For the people quoting the impact on the EVE economy, al least through GTC's we have a method of tracking that impact - unlike buying it from the Chinese.
The Yzzerman Filthy Scum	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:24:00 - [148] Originally by: Supay According to CCP, ghost training was removed as it provided an unfair advantage for some players over others who subscribe to login and actively develop their characters. I refer you to: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2428&tid=1 Quote: This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. As people flush in cash can afford to buy GTCs and then sell them for isk, this unfairly affects those who cannot. The people benefiting from this are not putting time and energy into working on their characters. So can CCP either please give us a timescale showing how and when they intend to remove this system, or explain in detail why selling GTCs for isk is not considered an unfair and unbalancing part of EVE? Just accept it bro!! Btw sellint GTC 610 (3/5) left


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.