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Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
47
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Posted - 2012.04.01 19:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.
If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.
I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.
No. You can still kill them yourself via killrights, suicide gank them, hire mercs to suicide gank them and will soon have crimewatch.
The burn jita campaign is a month away and people are already panicking.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
442
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Posted - 2012.04.01 19:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:gfldex wrote:That would not help you with a legal decshield. The dec shield that I think you are talking about is going bye bye with Inferno. But the removal of the dec shield has zero impact on NPC gankers. It gives them no advantage nor disadvantage. Now, IF they had to be in a PC corp, coupled with the Inferno changes, there is a potential that a industrialist corp could hire mercs to dec the corp the ganker is in. Given that gankers are such elite PvP'ers, I would think they would welcome these war decs.
With open arms.
rembourcer ou vous ne pourez plus miner en paix !!-ánous n'aimons pas les pirate !!-áno rembource mi declare war for you |
Alxea
The Army of The Ori
64
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
[quote=Vince Snetterton]But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp
If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours
I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.[/quote
Nothing can protect you from a suicide ganker who has staged a neutral orca in the system to drop ships anyplace in safe spots they desire. Or a neutral alt who can fly the same ship used to gank with can just eject out of it in a safe for the ganker to board. Gankers have friends. Wardecing a corp a suicide ganker is in is useless. There is no point specially if they are outlaws. They are immune to face to face fights because they are not practical because of concord and NPC cops on their tail as soon as they undock. They can pick who to kill if somebody thinks they are safe to mine tho or haul. You have the help of the cops and concord until you wardec then gankers can just take more time on killing what can be killed in a limited time window. The faction cops are not as bad as concord and give a little more time to the ganker. Mission runners and freighters get hit pretty hard all the time with suicide ganker fleets
The point is to do damage, and possibly to make a lot of money from it. They could care less what they lose as long as they get a kill out of it. Most likely they will just ignore everybody unless there is a weak link. Otherwise they will go to others to kill and not much you can do to stop them besides attempting to smartbomb their pod as they undock but then you die horribly to concord because smartbombing in highsec is not a good idea. Could try to probe them down and its always a game of cat and mouse. Otherwise they are like honey badgers, they don't give a shirt, they do their thing regardless! Any counter to gankers is just unpractical. Also tornado's can snipe out past +150 so with a cloaked ship moving around as their alt, they can simply land anyplace on the grid away from your rooks or DPS ships to counter them. Besides by the time they are even noticed and locked on to, they have already shot off their guns and killed something the sec they land while dieing to concord. So the so called protection doesn't help much since 99% of ganks end in the first shot fired as soon as they land on the grid. If you wardec a ganker corp and mine at the same time, it only makes your miners easier pray because then they become fair game without concord stepping in, though the faction cops are still annoying. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
642
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
just ban npc corps like I've always said
idiots seem to think they help the lone or rookie player
but that just betrays a lack of scope in their application |
Shogun Archer
85
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.
It's beautiful.
If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
397
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Posted - 2012.04.01 20:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shogun Archer wrote:You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.
It's beautiful.
It happens. Sometimes the 1400mm shells are just too much.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jas Dor wrote:What is being requested here is that if you are going to suicide gank my hauler, I should be able to dec you / hire mercenaries to kill you. Seems consistent. Not really. If he suicides your hauler, you are able to suicide him. Actually, with the current mechanics, you are able to just kill him without the suicide part. If you were able to dec him just because he blew your hauler up, he should be able to dec you just because you -0.01:ed him. That would be consistentGǪ
Actually he can deck my hauler character for any reason at all, the character is not in an NPC corp. If somebody is going to go shooting people, they should suffer the consequences, all of the consequences. Once of those consequences is the myself and my corpmates can seeking revenge disproportionate to the harm claimed. A kill right only lets me kill you once, not hunt you down like a dog and kill your and your friends ships repeatedly.
In fact I would say that trying to hide from your victims seeking revenge makes you a carebear. You victims want to PvP as CCP designed it to be implemented, with the option to escalate to all out warfare. You are blocking that.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:
The burn jita campaign is a month away and people are already panicking.
How does this have anything to do with Burn Jita. The goons are not using NPC corp alts. If you want to to dec the goons nothing is stopping you (other than the cost from everyone else that has decced them, though CCP is going to get rid of that shortly). Hell if you just want to shoot them Goons are quite open about where in 0.0 they are.
I don't really see the connection here.
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Wolf Kruol
Capsuleer Legions Of New Eden
GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
6
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Posted - 2012.04.01 21:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Never ending rawr on whiners miners. You have rights to shoot them.. so do it. Or hire guys to kill them.. or you know pay the fee's whatever.. 
I always suffer the concequences... More whining...  |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2012.04.01 22:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
Shogun Archer wrote:You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.
It's beautiful.
Darwinism goes ythe other way too when ccp makes it harder to gank. Gankers either htfu or gtfo
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1052586#post1052586-á thats why "EVE is dying" and you only have yourself to blame -á |
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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
206
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:
I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.
Who really cares what the victims think? They exist for us to victimize.
Ahahahahahaha! Sorry,I was thinking of someone else. Carry on thread.
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Ai Shun
560
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you.
If you train an Industrialist without any combat skills (Be that defensive oriented) in a place like New Eden you deserve to be food for the predators. Just because it is a sandbox does not mean you have to be an idiot. New Eden is not a friendly place.
So let me ask you a question instead. You are a new capsuleer entering New Eden, a known hive of scum, villainy, piracy where the Empire is barely keeping its borders secure. Would you be trying to defend yourself or would you just skip merrily along the rainbows?
Yeah. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
219
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.
Yeah, how about making it so no one can other than less than a month old newbies. Not sure why you would limit it to just suicide gankers, NPC corp abuse goes well beyond that...including the targets of suicide gankers... mostly they're only suicide ganking in the first place as the haulers and miners or whatever are themselves hiding in an NPC corp and it's the only option to attack them.
Actually I've suggested before that NPC corps automatically drag you into Faction War with other rival NPC corps, but failing that I'd be happy to see them go.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Richard Hammond II wrote:here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you. If you train an Industrialist without any combat skills (Be that defensive oriented) in a place like New Eden you deserve to be food for the predators. Just because it is a sandbox does not mean you have to be an idiot. New Eden is not a friendly place. So let me ask you a question instead. You are a new capsuleer entering New Eden, a known hive of scum, villainy, piracy where the Empire is barely keeping its borders secure. Would you be trying to defend yourself or would you just skip merrily along the rainbows? Yeah.
I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1052586#post1052586-á thats why "EVE is dying" and you only have yourself to blame -á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
397
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote:I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves.
Yep.
Money is good.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
397
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.
Yeah, how about making it so no one can other than less than a month old newbies. Not sure why you would limit it to just suicide gankers, NPC corp abuse goes well beyond that...including the targets of suicide gankers... mostly they're only suicide ganking in the first place as the haulers and miners or whatever are themselves hiding in an NPC corp and it's the only option to attack them. Actually I've suggested before that NPC corps automatically drag you into Faction War with other rival NPC corps, but failing that I'd be happy to see them go.
Yeah, but it isn't too long to train up a tornado (14 days?) or a catalyst ganker (that one is pretty fast).
That said, people still gank with -10sec status, not sure if players are expected to respond faster than Concord.
Take all the tech
Build all the titans
Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Grumpy Owly
557
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
For PvP and like to encourage more of it?
Want to validate a potential Career path in EvE with new income potential that is ideally designed as simply a transferance of ISK from one pilot to another?
Actually like situations where ships shoot back and "really" improve your KB resume?
You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in EvE where acceptance of risk is an everyday seperator of those getting ahead on the curve?
Or simply want to make EvE less boring?
Support: Bounty Hunting for CSM7.
CCP Design panel wrote:
"It's going to be awesome."
"It's absolutley on the list of things to do."
"We have a spaceships game, but you can't be han solo or boba fett, that's not clever."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_pLi1J9YrkM#t=1199s
Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |
Ai Shun
560
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Posted - 2012.04.01 23:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote:I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves.
What are they going to do once there are no combat pilots left in EVE? Mine and build industrial ships for ... what? |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2012.04.02 02:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Richard Aiel wrote:I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves. What are they going to do once there are no combat pilots left in EVE? Mine and build industrial ships for ... what?
Yeah cause youre the only and most important ppl in the game.... right
Cause ONLY suicide ganking in High sec
ONLY THAT
Is what allows the indies to make money.
not 0.0 or lowsec
Yeah... gl with that argument lol
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1052586#post1052586-á thats why "EVE is dying" and you only have yourself to blame -á |
Ch3244
Azule Dragoons
Sspectre
6
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Posted - 2012.04.02 03:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
everything has a risk. stop being an untanked noob |
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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
146
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Posted - 2012.04.02 04:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Tippia wrote:Richard Hammond II wrote:here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat Well, that's the problem isn't it? You're not preparing him properly for the full range of industry activitiesGǪ The sandbox lets you do that, and it also provides you with plenty of other solutions, such as having more competent haulers do the job (possibly including kicking the guy's ass if he becomes a problem). is it or isnt it a sandbox then is the question. Or is it ONLY a combat sandbox? Cause if its a TRUE sandbox, I should be allowed MY activitess TOO not JUST YOURS
If you don't want to shoot people, then you really don't have much room to get mad when people shoot at you. If you're such a great industrialist, then maybe you could afford some half-decent security.
When someone comes kicking down your sandcastle, you have a friend or another interested party go kick down his sandcastle. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
688
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Posted - 2012.04.02 07:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:
If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp
Good idea
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1166
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Posted - 2012.04.02 07:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
We all know rule #1: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose.
The lesser understood rule #0 of EVE is, of course, "all PvP, all the time." This is sometimes expressed as, "by clicking 'undock' you consent to PvP."
Then there's rule #2 for hisec: CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.
Does it upset me when someone suicide ganks my Hulk? Of course. That doesn't mean I come to the forums and start bleating like a lost and lonely WoW player, wondering when the great gods of "fairness" are going to "Do Something".
Last night I lost an Oracle in a L4 mission because I wasn't paying attention. Did I whine and cry like a WoW player to get my stuff back? No, I went out and replaced that Oracle because I had the fitting saved and a mission to complete before downtime.
Welcome to EVE, a harsh, dark world of piracy and ruthless capitalism, where every decision you make has consequences. This is Objectivist utopia! |
Aristeia Cersei
SQUIDS.
6
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Posted - 2012.04.02 07:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
Perhaps gankers will stop using noob corps when their targets stop hiding in them as well?
http://www.squidswarm.com/index.php/kill_related/228/
It's not just Mining barges & Tengus that you can gank.. NPC booster alts are fair game too..  |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
230
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Posted - 2012.04.02 08:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
I prefer CCP Tuxford's ideas about war mechanics. ;)
CCP Tuxford wrote:
In fact the new default is to be at war with everyone. When you create a corp you are at war with everybody in the known universe and you need to declare peace.
also declare peace functionality may be broken.
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Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
573
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Posted - 2012.04.02 08:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.
If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.
I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact. That's...not a bad idea. Mr Epeen  Actually it is a bad idea. You just aren't equipped with enough smarts to know the difference.
As it stands people with negative rep are still accepted into NPC/empire corps? Wouldn't they be arrested? Doesn't seem to be a good mechanic to me.
-
[img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img]
[yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Francisco Bizzaro
13
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Posted - 2012.04.02 10:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you.
What qualifies as a combat skill in this context?
Does ship agility count as combat? The ability to fly a frigate and create undock bookmarks and safe spots? The dotlan map-reading skill?
Yeah, if you don't have those, I guess you're ****ed. This game is stacked against you. It must be CCP's problem to fix it. |
Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.04.02 10:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
It's possible to fit a hulk to survive your average ganker. I've survived attacks from multiple agressers. The game is fine as it is. Learn to survive and stop trying to change the game to make up for your lack of grey matter. |
gfldex
441
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Posted - 2012.04.02 10:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:
The dec shield that I think you are talking about is going bye bye with Inferno.
But the removal of the dec shield has zero impact on NPC gankers.
NPC corps got a legal decshield indeed. I never understood why CCP didn't remove the ability to commit a crime for NPC corp members already. Would shorten the petition queues quite a bit. (That's how you sell it to them.)
Inferno - your wallet will burn! |
tessrgoonssheep baaaaaaahhhh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.04.02 23:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Here's your solution CCP if you want everyone and their brother/sister to take part in PVP?
To hell with corporations and alliances and make EVE Online abide by FPS rules: in other words, everyone can be shot at with no holds barred rules. make it so anyone and everyone can kill any "joe blow" for the sheer hell of it.
Let's make EVE Online like "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield".
Talk about killmails and killboards. geesus, I don't see how anything could get done in eve if you're always getting your ass shot at.
And if you do that CCP, since you have an unlimited wallet, why don't you guys open your own isk store.
Why don't you sell like a billion isk for something like 20 dollars or something.
of course , all those naughty boys and girls who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar for RMTing would have been paying you instead of whomever they were buying their shiny coinage from.
I'm sure people would be buying all them shiny faction pirate ships so they can look all "joe Cool" like until they get their arse shot up.
C'mon CCP. do it. Convert EVE Online to a FPS and "no holds barred rules" shoot on sight any one and everyone.
I can imagine all the tears flowing.  
"Test Alliance is the Best Alliance". anyone have a kitty kitty for me? |
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