But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

That would not help you with a legal decshield.

The dec shield that I think you are talking about is going bye bye with Inferno.

Now, IF they had to be in a PC corp, coupled with the Inferno changes, there is a potential that a industrialist corp could hire mercs to dec the corp the ganker is in. Given that gankers are such elite PvP'ers, I would think they would welcome these war decs.

Actually, no. With the current implementation, it becomes the default state.

GǪor you could just shoot him. Or hire people to shoot him regardless of his corp status.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

I have seen and replied to your past posts, and KNOW that discussing anything with you goes NOWHERE fast.

You are being intentionally obtuse

we all know that it is significantly different hiring people to suicide their own ship to kill a ganker in an NPC corp, as opposed to dec'ing a group and legally shooting them.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

Just shoot him. Problem solved.

here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat

here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you.

Well, that's the problem isn't it? You're not preparing him properly for the full range of industry activitiesGǪ

The sandbox lets you do that, and it also provides you with plenty of other solutions, such as having more competent haulers do the job (possibly including kicking the guy's ass if he becomes a problem).

Had one for years, whats your point?

That's...not a bad idea.

Mr Epeen

b.) pure indy and you do fine in combat? That WAS my point thank you for sidestepping it

is it or isnt it a sandbox then is the question.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

a.) ah youre a tippia alt then?
b.) pure indy and you do fine in combat? That WAS my point thank you for sidestepping it

That's...not a bad idea.

Mr Epeen

Indeed. If only if the miners weren't use the same mechanic to avoid wardecs while sucking on ice and roids with dozens of exhumers at once. Somehow the status quo seems balanced to me.

A. No, but I seem to get that a lot

B. Yes it does fine in combat.

ah I get it trolling. gj there

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

The dec shield that I think you are talking about is going bye bye with Inferno.
But the removal of the dec shield has zero impact on NPC gankers.
It gives them no advantage nor disadvantage.

Now, IF they had to be in a PC corp, coupled with the Inferno changes, there is a potential that a industrialist corp could hire mercs to dec the corp the ganker is in. Given that gankers are such elite PvP'ers, I would think they would welcome these war decs.

You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.

It's beautiful.

Not really. If he suicides your hauler, you are able to suicide him. Actually, with the current mechanics, you are able to just kill him without the suicide part. If you were able to dec him just because he blew your hauler up, he should be able to dec you just because you -0.01:ed him. That would be consistentGǪ

The burn jita campaign is a month away and people are already panicking.

You know what I love about Eve Online? Darwinism eventually sorts everything out. The perpetual victims end up either hardening up or quitting.

It's beautiful.

Who really cares what the victims think? They exist for us to victimize.

here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you train an Industrialist without any combat skills (Be that defensive oriented) in a place like New Eden you deserve to be food for the predators. Just because it is a sandbox does not mean you have to be an idiot. New Eden is not a friendly place.

So let me ask you a question instead. You are a new capsuleer entering New Eden, a known hive of scum, villainy, piracy where the Empire is barely keeping its borders secure. Would you be trying to defend yourself or would you just skip merrily along the rainbows?

Yeah.

I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves.

Yeah, how about making it so no one can other than less than a month old newbies. Not sure why you would limit it to just suicide gankers, NPC corp abuse goes well beyond that...including the targets of suicide gankers... mostly they're only suicide ganking in the first place as the haulers and miners or whatever are themselves hiding in an NPC corp and it's the only option to attack them.

Actually I've suggested before that NPC corps automatically drag you into Faction War with other rival NPC corps, but failing that I'd be happy to see them go.

"It's going to be awesome."

"It's absolutley on the list of things to do."

"We have a spaceships game, but you can't be han solo or boba fett, that's not clever."

I think theyd rather wait for CCP to change it so that it fits their vision
which they seem more than happy to do if it increases their subs more than those they lose when the other side leaves.

What are they going to do once there are no combat pilots left in EVE? Mine and build industrial ships for ... what?

is it or isnt it a sandbox then is the question. Or is it ONLY a combat sandbox? Cause if its a TRUE sandbox, I should be allowed MY activitess TOO not JUST YOURS

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp

......

In fact the new default is to be at war with everyone. When you create a corp you are at war with everybody in the known universe and you need to declare peace.

also declare peace functionality may be broken.

Actually it is a bad idea. You just aren't equipped with enough smarts to know the difference.

here, tippia, train a, industrialist. Purely indy. no combat (and if this was the sandbox ppl constantly say it is when they wanna get their way, you should be allowed to have characters like this and not get punished for making them) get ganked and then go after him and tell us how that works out for you.

The dec shield that I think you are talking about is going bye bye with Inferno.
But the removal of the dec shield has zero impact on NPC gankers.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

Yeah, how about making it so no one can other than less than a month old newbies. Not sure why you would limit it to just suicide gankers, NPC corp abuse goes well beyond that...including the targets of suicide gankers... mostly they're only suicide ganking in the first place as the haulers and miners or whatever are themselves hiding in an NPC corp and it's the only option to attack them.

Actually I've suggested before that NPC corps automatically drag you into Faction War with other rival NPC corps, but failing that I'd be happy to see them go.

you get ganked.

you pay concord to look the other way for a week. (only if you got ganked ) personal war dec/bounty system, being in an npc corp doesn't protect them.

no countdown to wait for dec to go live, no cool down toward the end.

cost to dec related to cost of how many ganked you, 10m isk per ganker.

Funny how the ganker community thinks that everyone should be forced into a PC corp . . . except themselves. Carebares pay for NPC corp protection with a 11% tax rate (this is also an isk sink). They also cannot anchor POSes. What is being requested here is that if you are going to suicide gank my hauler, I should be able to dec you / hire mercenaries to kill you. Seems consistent. Even if my hauler alts were in a PC corp you are unlikely to spend the isk to dec a one man corp. I get no extra protection from suicide ganks for being in an NPC corp, there should be no extra protection for suicide gankers from being in an NPC corp.

Of course nobody is addressing the metagame in EVE.

The Merc groups are the gankers.

everything has a risk. stop being an untanked noob

You can tank a Hulk all you want...wont take more than 2 catalysts to destroy you before concord arrives. Mining simply needs higher tier ships to train for...bigger tougher ships, still gankable of course but they need tougher ships.

Yeah cause youre the only and most important ppl in the game.... right
Cause ONLY suicide ganking in High sec
ONLY THAT
Is what allows the indies to make money.

not 0.0 or lowsec

Yeah... gl with that argument lol

Who really cares what the victims think? They exist for us to victimize.

so now its the ganker "community"

nice

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

That entirely depends on whether you choose to use actual arguments or if you just resort to nonsensical and unfounded assertions and personal attacksGǪ

GǪso, personal attacks it is, then?

Not really. The difference lies in how much you have to pay them and how much support you're willing to provide. The basic mechanism to get your revenge is already there GÇö you just choose not to make use of it. Could it be improved? Sure, but your idea is not the right way to go since it opens up so many obvious exploits. Limiting what other players can and cannot do is never a good idea, and CCP are actually quite actively moving away from that kind of design.

What you want is transferable kill rights, which is something completely different.

When I mined in nullsec with a hulk I had it fit so it could eat 8 overheated catalysts - assuming I was mining in a 0.5 sec station and they were all level 5 and using faction ammo. With enough room for an MLU II to boot. But that's just what it takes to survive the rats.

It's funny though that for all the threat that suicide ganking poses in highsec, I have yet to see two lossmails in succession where a highsec miner even bothered to use all his midslots, let alone use them for tanking.

When I mined in nullsec with a hulk I had it fit so it could eat 8 overheated catalysts - assuming I was mining in a 0.5 sec station and they were all level 5 and using faction ammo. With enough room for an MLU II to boot. But that's just what it takes to survive the rats.

It's funny though that for all the threat that suicide ganking poses in highsec, I have yet to see two lossmails in succession where a highsec miner even bothered to use all his midslots, let alone use them for tanking.

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

I've got a better idea.

Lose the NPC corp thing altogether. Leave them for training purposes, but after some amount of time, maybe 60 days, boot the player out of the corp. They can never be back in again.

Unemployed capsuleers are non-persons. In a universe of immortals governed by the quest for riches, they are the scum of the universe. Not even CONCORD cares what happens to them and won't lift a finger to stop anyone from doing whatever they want to them. Only the employed have rights in EvE. Agents won't talk to them...they can't sell their wares (except maybe in the most lawless of territories)...they are essentially locked out of participation in society until they find employment (or pay dues to create their own corporation).

I think this should make everyone happy. This would essentially get rid of the perma-dec-shield that is NPC corporations for both miners and gankers. It would also push players into a more active role in EvE society....and would provide ample gank targets for those who simply won't join a corp.

I'm sure players will come up with their own ways around it. Some Mr. Nice Guy will create a corp that anyone can be in, has no taxes...etc... That's fine...they'd still be targetable via war-dec.

How about after so many Total Skill Points you're booted out of the NPC Corp.

No alternate crop, just a lone wolf.



I seriously don't even understand why there's an NPC Corp to begin with. In my six years of playing not once have I used the NPC corp to group or serve any other purpose than another chat group.

Got the Rookie channel so it's not like NPC Corp is the only easy way to get advice.
Got Local (when is this going...) so (for now) that's really the only channel that gets used for grouping


...seriously, please, someone tell me why CCP thought it was necessary to force you into a NPC Corp.

[Probably some stupid code dependency....like a bunch of stuff that expects the character object to have a corp object or it blows the **** up or something.

These things often come down to a question of game balance.

If high-sec players want a "PVE" environment in which they never lose a ship, then the rewards they get from high-sec activities should be throttled severely.

If you don't want to participate in the money-spending aspect of the economy, you shouldn't participate in the money making aspects either.

Yeah its not like this is a sandbox or anything, their playstyle is wrong and they should be punished. This is a PVP ONLY sandbox

But how about modifying it so a ganker can't hide in an NPC corp.

If you want to gank someone in high sec, you have to be in a PC corp, and once you gank someone, you can't jump to an NPC corp for 48 hours.

I think this would eliminate some of the frustration miners / industrialists feel, while keeping the mechanic intact.

What in EVE, apart from ship spinning, does not put you in competition with other players?

I wouldn't be opposed to your suicide ganks incurring a loss of standing with your corp if it's a NPC corp, and if the standings go too low they kick you out.

Gankers are cowards. What can you do. If you suck, well, you suck.

How about abolish NPC corps when past the 1 month mark. That means for you NPC miners and haulers as well, chumps.

Yes. CCP have said so before. The game logic/DB deep down requires you to be in a corp.

It's also the same reason why biomassed characters show up as being in Doomheim [666] if you've still got links to them/contact details rather than just deleted.

Why did they design it that way. EVE Online is the only online game I've played (that would be about 30-some looking at Raptr) and EVE is the only one that puts you in a Guild/Corp/Clan.

It's possible to fit a hulk to survive your average ganker. I've survived attacks from multiple agressers. The game is fine as it is. Learn to survive and stop trying to change the game to make up for your lack of grey matter.

What EHP is required to do that?

I was looking at one of my hulks a couple days ago...11,000 (might have been 1100) ehp with 80% resists across the board. I assume this is vastly insufficient because I have a mining laser upgrade, a cargo expander, and cargo rigs....you know, so I can mine enough to make it somewhat efficient use of my time (this particular Hulk is fit for solo mining with no second account to haul).

To set a baseline for what is acceptable to survive ganks (LOL...no Hulk will survive a determined foe), what EHP should the common miner have on a Hulk?

When I mined in nullsec with a hulk I had it fit so it could eat 8 overheated catalysts - assuming I was mining in a 0.5 sec station and they were all level 5 and using faction ammo. With enough room for an MLU II to boot. But that's just what it takes to survive the rats.

It's funny though that for all the threat that suicide ganking poses in highsec, I have yet to see two lossmails in succession where a highsec miner even bothered to use all his midslots, let alone use them for tanking.

To set a baseline for what is acceptable to survive ganks (LOL...no Hulk will survive a determined foe), what EHP should the common miner have on a Hulk?