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Orca, what do you guys think?

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Research Rachel	Posted - 2008.10.24 10:23:00 - [31] i don't care if it can't tank, it's designed for empire mining op's. but it should be able to compress ore otherwise it's just a mobile GSC
Jal Rifkin	Posted - 2008.10.24 10:52:00 - [32] They are not going to build an Empire version of the Rorqual, conditions in 0.0/low sec and high sec are utterly different. To be utterly frank, compression is not required in high sec with the plethora of nearby stations for refining. Maybe the Orca could benefit from a few extra slots, an extra mid and high would be top of my wish list, but for the most part it is fine. Its not only going to be miners using this thing. Personally, I dont mine, I am a T2 producer. I need a ship larger than an extended Itty 5, but I dont haul large enough loads often enough to warrant a freighter. For my purposes, the Orca appears to be perfect, maybe it is little more than a glorified GSC in some peoples eyes, but I personally will get a great deal of use out of a ship able to haul 12 cruiser size hulls (9 in cargo, 3 in ship hanger), as well as 30k m3 of modules/drones in the corp hanger.
Brego Tralowski Gallente Forever Night	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:54:00 - [33] I am a miner and manufacturer/courier, as the previous posts says i'll be using it instead of my freighter as it is larger than my rigged itty 5, and sometimes i just dont need to use the freighter. But i will also use it in mining ops, I for one will be looking forward to this ships arrival and will be building them as soon as i get the BPO, at a reasonable price of course lol.
Zakru Anul GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Brego Tralowski I am a miner and manufacturer/courier, as the previous posts says i'll be using it instead of my freighter as it is larger than my rigged itty 5, and sometimes i just dont need to use the freighter. But i will also use it in mining ops, I for one will be looking forward to this ships arrival and will be building them as soon as i get the BPO, at a reasonable price of course lol. which is why i thought CCP was making a ship for that job. the Orca from what i recall from the Blogs was too be the 0.0 people begging for a Risk vs award too mine low end supply in Null space that would make it a better choice then cargo running it in from empire. As one of them people in 0.0 space that needed a choice like this seeing what the Orca is now feels like getting beamed in the Gems with a Baseball. For a Ship made by the 2 largest mining corps in eve it seems too not do anything with mining. the Whole mind link thing is Void by the fact the bonus does not apply when your docked. It all falls back too Risk vs award. why risk a Hulk in 0.0 space mining Veldspar when i can simply cargo run it from empire for less risk and effort. it's easy too see people want a Mid point from hauler too Freighter, but why does it have too be the long await savor of 0.0 mining.
Tador Freiberg	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:52:00 - [35] hmm i need 450K of shipmainenaince cargo. so i can place 1 Hulk, 1 MAck and 1 skiff in it. a 4th high slot for all 3 mining moduls and 1 tractor beam where top. and eventuelly tanking ability for 0.0 rats then i have my ship of dreams ^^
shoot me House Harkonnen	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:52:00 - [36] Orca and industrial command skill are showing on the test server now but not seeded. Is this intended or are we not allowed to test a ship before its released on tq?
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:38:00 - [37] so... if you ever want to give bonuses or use tractor beams, you need to be in the same fleet 500 mill capital ship in the carebear fleet, what can be a more attractive target for a war dec? the Rorqual is plagued by its high cost. In every alliance there are spies, once a spy reports a Rorqual 'sieged' in a belt, a reinforcement group of 15 pirates gets there from 2 regions away. Rorqual is never ever used outside POS shield, although it can jump through gates, many people prefer to use a freighter or a carrier, which is much cheaper still. Orca is meant to be 400 mill alternative, to facilitate mining in a fleet of 15 hulks. there is absolutely no reason to use the 70 km tractor beams, since you need as many haulers as you needed before... give the Orca 400 000 m3 bay and it will rely more on itself, pull the container, dock unload the ore... give orca compression ability and you need 10 times less haulers to maintain it. Orca has no role as of now, which needs to be changed
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:08:00 - [38] Originally by: shoot me Orca and industrial command skill are showing on the test server now but not seeded. Is this intended or are we not allowed to test a ship before its released on tq? As always, on introduction they are seeded in FD- but not sisi-wide.
Jack Snack Caldari Polish Task Forces	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:47:00 - [39] Orca's model is way too small... it's smaller than a BS ;/ Never outnumbered, never outgunned
Aluura Sky	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Jason Edwards Edited by: Jason Edwards on 23/10/2008 23:50:47 Sad Panda on no capital tractors. The only thing I'm noticing is the ship maintenance. By the inclusion of this... it's meant to be able to move your rigged ships around high sec. the thing is... if it cant move a bs... whats the point? Rigs are expensive. Because of this... we put them on ships which arent going to necessarily die easily. That being a battleship. Even then... Lets say I'm moving my home... I'm going from Pashanai-Genesis to Amarr-Domain. I'm moving my hulk, 200,000m3, my iteron 5, 275,000m3. Both expensively rigged. So I cant move them both at the same time. Or how about my Dominix or CNR. Neither of which can be moved at all. Meaning I need completely separate trips. Which kind of destroys the value of the orca in that role. I must disagree with some of your stating - Orca is Industrial ship, so I don't think is intended to help you move all your BS's around the universe. ship maintenance bay is more than enough to move your barge and hauler or something in this range. Q1: Why do you need Domi if you have CNR? (just wondering). P.S. be happy with what you get, stop winning
ian666 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN	Posted - 2008.10.24 14:56:00 - [41] Orca is a gift for macrominers, now one person with 20 accounts mining 23/7 will earn more isks, which he sell as usual on ebay = more $$$ Great job ccp
Daniel limb Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.24 15:32:00 - [42] its quite simple tbh, ccp have released the ship pre-nerfed as they have done with the black-ops, we can test on the sisi server all we like but no-one really know how a ship will be until its used by hundreds/thousands of people on TQ, i would expect the orca to receive a boast 3/4 months after its release onto the TQ server.
Marconius Caldari Astroglide X	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:06:00 - [43] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/10/2008 06:19:14 Remove drone bay altogether. Otherwise after half a year empire belts will look like this: - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones Can one really out perform a macro Hulk?
Silver Sarena Caldari Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:06:00 - [44] Personally, I love the look of the Orca, and I plan to get one ASAP. Whether I build it or not, just depends. The only thing I would say it needs is a bigger cargo bay. If you raised it from the 30k m3 it is now, to 50-60k m3 I think it would be perfect. You don't want ore compression on it because low grade ores aren't worth the added expense of compressing them. Bottom line, thanks CCP for a gift to the high sec industiralists! Now, if you weren't uber-nerfing my Raven at the same time, I might re-up all of my accounts, instead of just one!
Amy Wang	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:26:00 - [45] I think it needs a 550k m¦ ship bay
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:42:00 - [46] I used as orca for a few hours last night. I actually liked it quite a bit. I took it to a hi-sec belt and mined Veld, Scord, and Plag since that is what it is designed for. This character was in a Hulk getting boosted. My command ship / hauler alt was flying the orca. Fittings on my orca: 2x small tractor beams 1x mining foreman link (reduced cycle time) --- Survey scanner II XL shield booster II Shield boost Amp II --- 2x Expanded cargohold II --- 3x cargohold rigs I 1) Mining in an average hi-sec belt it took about an hour for 1 hulk to fill the orca's cargohold and corp hanger. It would probably go a little faster if I was trying to be maximally efficient with my mining cycles. 2) The orca can put 25 GSC's in its cargohold at level 1 skill. This gave a cargohold just shy of 100K m3. So that's almost 130K m3 if you add the corp hanger. 3) It tanked hi-sec rats fine without even turning on the booster. With 3 frig rats (serpentis) shooting it there was just a slight bit of red in the shield readout. With my skills, I could just about perma-run the booster. I'm sure I could with a bit more training and/or tweaking the fit. If I was using it an Amarr space againt EM damage dealing rats, I might put something on there to plug its EM hole, but that's probably not really needed for hi-sec. 4) The maintenance array has just enough space to hold 2 hulks. I would like it to be a little bigger. 5) The orca aligns and warps MUCH faster than a freighter. It feels just slightly slower than a BS in that department. 6) The survey scanner has a lot of range, but I'm not really sure how useful that would be for the type of mining I generally do. I normally have a survey scanner on my hulks anyway and that usually does the job fine. Removing that would open up a mid slot to something more useful like a shield tanking module or command processor. 7) The tractor beams are a nice improvement over a normal hauler. 8) I wish it could mount more than 1 mining foreman link. Guess I'll finally have to train my command alt up to Warfare Link Specialist V so I can mount a command processor. All in all, I liked the new ship. I'll probably be buying a couple when the go live on TQ.
Scimon Tinker	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:52:00 - [47] your command ship/hauller alt has barge V ? why isnt he/she your second hulk pilot
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.10.24 16:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/10/2008 06:19:14 Remove drone bay altogether. Otherwise after half a year empire belts will look like this: - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones Personally, I don't see it happening. How long would you have to mine to make back your 400-600M isk investment mining hi-sec ores with just 5 mining drones? Quite a long time I would imagine. An Iteron V with a miner II is probably much more efficient if you want to AFK mine.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.10.24 17:04:00 - [49] My general take is it tries to fill too many roles at once and does none of them all that well. The Orca could probably have been at least 3 different ships. CCP seems fine with creating piles of fine-grained-task combat ships.. why a all-in-one industrialist ship?
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.10.24 17:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Scimon Tinker your command ship/hauller alt has barge V ? why isnt he/she your second hulk pilot A lot of times she is, it depends on how involved I want to be when I'm mining. Sometimes it's nice to just stick her in a Claymore, turn on the links, forget about her, and just move ore from the hulk every few minutes. It's not the most efficient use for her, but sometimes you just want to semi-AFK.
Research Rachel	Posted - 2008.10.24 18:32:00 - [51] Originally by: Opertone Rorqual is never ever used outside POS shield, although it can jump through gates, many people prefer to use a freighter or a carrier, which is much cheaper still. Can i buy your rorqual cos we must've been ripped off, or your thinking of the jump freighter being able to use gates?
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 19:02:00 - [52] yes, my friend owns that rorqual, he repeatedly said that he was afraid of going through gates... as far as i know rorqual has capital jumpdrive. Orca doesn't have the jump drive, it can be cool as micro freighter with 150 000 m3 of standard cargo capacity, which can be expanded to 300 000 as a premium. Or it can serve the role of excavation logistics, by compressing the ore and making it easier to move both with haulers and the Orca itself. still, something needs to be done about it, since fielding a capital ship may be more hassle than benefit. Orca's compressing the ore will mean that less haulers are needed and more ore can be taken on board at once, before a hauler arrives, this improves logistics. Thinking of how to protect the Orca from space vandals is not helping the mining at all. Give it the 10x time ore compression, let it consume ice if you think this is unbalanced or has too much of advantage.
Antaiir Gallente Eat My Shorts Inc. Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.24 20:33:00 - [53] What i think about the Orca? Just and simple: USELESS
Katana Seiko Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:10:00 - [54] It definetely needs more bandwidth... It's a capital, so can't it get at least 50 mbit? --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:29:00 - [55] Originally by: spaceman7777 needs a bit of work. As it is, it has a ridiculous Capacitor recharge rate, to the point of nearly being able to perma run dual XL-Shield boosters SHHHHH.............
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.10.24 21:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Katana Seiko It definetely needs more bandwidth... It's a capital, so can't it get at least 50 mbit? That's what the two hulks are for in your cargo bay duh! This ship is an awesome stepping stone into capital ships. It's not complicated without the jump drive or room for capital mods, and it can go thru gates and work very well in high sec. AWESOME ship overall, I can see these making the market much nicer in the future.
Katana Seiko Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.24 22:27:00 - [57] The 25 mbit is okay for five mining drones... 50 mbit would be a reason to use five medium combat drones instead. I want to shoot down the enemy attacking me, not just tickle him... I mean, that capital should be able to shoot down a normal cruiser. With 5 small drones that's close to impossible... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.10.24 22:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Constance Harme on 24/10/2008 22:28:57 Originally by: Katana Seiko It definetely needs more bandwidth... It's a capital, so can't it get at least 50 mbit? Actually its subcapital one of the dev's called it something like Sub capital industrial command ship or SCICS for short. And they may be adding more drone space/bandwidth.
wollschoof Gallente Chaos Y Diversion	Posted - 2008.10.24 22:35:00 - [59] the ship need the ore compression ability
Fish Evans Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:49:00 - [60] The Orca as it stands on SISI now is very much pre nerfed. some points that dont seem to make much seance to me are as follows: 1) Its a Command ship but can only run one warfare link at a time (its also got very limited high and mid slots so using comand processors to incress this doesnt work well) its PvP Comrades (Fleet Command ships) can run three (not to be confused with field comand ships) 2) Its role as a Command ship is incompatibile with its potential role of reducing the logistics effort. It can only act as a secure buffer for ore if its to act as a bonus ship. - meaning the same number of regular haulers will be needed. It can try to get the best of both worlds but especily when deployed in a non-station system it will get overwhelmed. (of couse you can deploy more then one). Persoanaly I feel the solution here is to allow a Frighter to pick up from the orca, i think this would compliment the roquel in low sec - (roquel Compresses passes to Orca Orca Delivers to Frighter/Jump freighter) 3) Its mantinace bay seems inadiquet given the current assembled volumes of Industrial ships. Personaly I would see this as quick way to swap a miner or two to a hauler. However doing this is tight. - eithere the asssembled volumes of indy ships need tweaking or the mantinace bay does (given that we cant now use Carriers to transport ore inside haulers I cant see any reason not to reduce there volumes or indeed incressing the orcas bay to say 600,000). So in terms of raw effect to a mining operation as the orca stands i cant see it improving an Op by any margin that would pay back its price tag in a reasonable time frame, However it is a step in the right direction even as it stands. I would also expect that the ship should have a slightly better offenive ability - a few waves of medium drones.

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