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Zarest
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.23 21:43:00 -
[1]
The Orca was developed as a joint venture between Outer Ring Excavations and Deep Core Mining Inc as a vessel to help meet the demands of New Eden's industry and provide a flexible platform from which mining operations can be more easily managed.
The Orca uses much of the technology developed by ORE for the Rorqual and integrated with the latest advancements from Deep Core Mining research division has developed a vessel which offers a diverse role to all sizes of operations and needs.
Role Bonus: 250% bonus to tractor beam range 100% bonus to tractor beam velocity 500% bonus to survey scanner range 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to cargo capacity per level 3% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level
30,000 m3 cargo
50 m3 Drone Capacity
46000 Structure.
6900 Armor, 50% EM, 10% Explosive, 35% Kinetic and 35% Thermal Resistances.
9750 Shields, 0% EM, 50% Explosive, 40% Kinetic, 20% Thermal Resistances.
Fittings,
CPU 430
Powergrid 940
2 low slots, 3 med slots, 3 high slots and 3 upgrade hardpoints.
Overall I think the ship looks good the cargo is the same as it's big brother the Rorqual with one less low slot.
The main problems I see is that it has very little means to defend it self I know it's a mining command but 4 mid slots and 5 high slots with 50 more m3 of drone space for a total of 100 m3 would make it perfect.
Any ways I want to know what every one thinks of it we have all been waiting a long time for this ship and I want to know is it what you all expected from it.
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caldari char010
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Posted - 2008.10.23 22:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: caldari char010 on 23/10/2008 22:10:24 Watch out Makro-Carebears, this is all you' ve ever dreamed of. A mobile hig-sec-Veldspar-put-in-your-Freighter-Device.
Where is the sense in a ship being unable to Haul large amouths of ore without warping to stations?
Seriously CCP, this is one more useless ship for uber-carebears!
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Eve Tourman
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Posted - 2008.10.23 22:11:00 -
[3]
Where my Veldspar killing Mining lasers all i want too know.
for the longest time 0.0 in the whole risk vs award did not award mining Veldspar out there.
Too that end i wanted the Orca too be that Ship that did the ore types found in 0.5 and higher with great success.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:24:00 -
[4]
I want more high slots for tbeams and salvagers, and I want 600km3 of ship bay space for a single rigged BS. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jason Edwards on 23/10/2008 23:50:47 Sad Panda on no capital tractors.
mining barge 5 for industrial ship seems odd. But it's good. The industrial command skill is rank 8. Which means 30 days for rank 5.
30,000 cargo + 2 expanders = ~50,000 cargo + 3x t1 rigs =75,000 OR ~50,000 cargo + 2x t2 rigs + 1 t1 rig= 80,000m3
30,000 corp hangar 400,000 ship maintenance(not enough to carry a bs)
Honestly there seems to be no reason to use t2 rigs necessarily.
There's enough to grab 4 jetcans at a time. *if not using giant cans*
The tractor beams are pretty crap in my opinion. range is 50km i believe. I was expecting the ability to have 2 capital tractors. Ranging 200km. I can live with that.
The only thing I'm noticing is the ship maintenance. By the inclusion of this... it's meant to be able to move your rigged ships around high sec. the thing is... if it cant move a bs... whats the point? Rigs are expensive. Because of this... we put them on ships which arent going to necessarily die easily. That being a battleship. Even then... Lets say I'm moving my home... I'm going from Pashanai-Genesis to Amarr-Domain.
I'm moving my hulk, 200,000m3, my iteron 5, 275,000m3. Both expensively rigged. So I cant move them both at the same time. Or how about my Dominix or CNR. Neither of which can be moved at all. Meaning I need completely separate trips. Which kind of destroys the value of the orca in that role.
Next thing that seems odd... It's not even advanced starship let alone capital ship as per skills... yet it takes capital components to constuct and takes a week to build. Seems odd.
Quote: The main problems I see is that it has very little means to defend it self
It can run a t2 xl shield booster permanently; without any cap rechargers or anything. That's some pretty nice defense. |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:57:00 -
[6]
Does anyone know how much it would cost (Approximately) to build -BPO obviously because we can't tell the price? |
Drunken Fury
Minmatar It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.10.24 00:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Koyama Ise Edited by: Koyama Ise on 23/10/2008 23:58:36 Does anyone know how much it would cost (Approximately) to build -BPO obviously because we can't tell the price? Also, more highs and mids for gang mods?
The Devblog said that the actual components to build it would cost about 400 Million isk. The BPO would cost about a Billion ISK.
Most likely the markup will stabalize at about 10-20 % as a guesstimate. So say about 500-600 mil. Though we could see them for as low as 450 Mil if folks start undercutting each other.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 00:09:00 -
[8]
so lvl 1 skill. 3 t1 rigs + 2 t2 expanded cargoholds gives 77,000m3 space. + 30,000 corp hangar.
Which is tons. The thing can align in 10-15 seconds my guess. So better than jump freighter.
As for tank. 2 medium slots as you see fit... + xl shield booster; which permanently runs. Add on top of that perhaps 2x large shield extenders t2 ofcoarse. Gives you 17000 shields and perm running xl booster. You have a pretty nasty buffer tank. Meaning I suspect you would need a good number of ships to suicide gank. On top of that ship maintenance and corp hangar isnt scannable afaik. So they'd be taking quite a risk.
I must say... Pretty nice ship.
ALSO. I want to correct my error. Tractor beams give 70km range at 1km/s speed. So very nice. Cant complain. |
Malen Nenokal
Eden Federal Recon
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Posted - 2008.10.24 00:23:00 -
[9]
What are all the skill reqs for the Orca?
Eden Federal Recon
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Jal Rifkin
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Posted - 2008.10.24 00:55:00 -
[10]
It suits me perfectly, tbh if you are moving a lot of ships to a new home you would be more likely to sell T1 BS off even rigged as they are a hassle to move even with a carrier, I would be more inclined to sell them on and buy new at your new home. To be frank, most folk I know sell off all T1 ships if moving any distance, its only really T2 thats worth shifting. 400k m3 is enough to move a few cruiser sized ships or a couple of hulks, which is pretty much ideally sized for my purposes.
TBH I am not going to be using it as a mining support, more as a superhauler. I dont deal in the massive bulk amounts of haulage to really require a freighter, but need something bigger than an Itty 5. Orca fits the bill nicely. And means I can get those T2 cruisers to market, 80 - 90 k m3 cargo hold will fit 8 - 9 packed down cruisers which is a handy amount. Add the corp hanger for modules and drones or anything else I need to transport and its looking a tidy little package from my perspective.
Guess there will be people who will whine about it... but its not supposed to be a freighter or a Rorq... but a small cross between the two. Might need a little bit of tweaking but on the whole it looks fine.
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.10.24 01:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Constance Harme on 24/10/2008 01:01:01
Originally by: Malen Nenokal What are all the skill reqs for the Orca?
Skill requirements are as follows: Industrial Command Ships 1 (new skill) Spaceship Command 5 Mining Barge 5 Mining Foreman 3
Plus the pre-req's for those skills of course.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 01:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drunken Fury
Originally by: Koyama Ise Edited by: Koyama Ise on 23/10/2008 23:58:36 Does anyone know how much it would cost (Approximately) to build -BPO obviously because we can't tell the price? Also, more highs and mids for gang mods?
The Devblog said that the actual components to build it would cost about 400 Million isk. The BPO would cost about a Billion ISK.
Most likely the markup will stabalize at about 10-20 % as a guesstimate. So say about 500-600 mil. Though we could see them for as low as 450 Mil if folks start undercutting each other.
1 week to build... 8 weeks base to research; doable in 1 month I suspect. Cap components and other associated costs not to mention straining the cap component bpos even more.
It will be a couple months before true competition happens. Not to mention they will all have pretty big overhead because they cant crank out big numbers of them and they want to pay off the cost of all those bpos. Which are a few billion.
February probably the closest time it will be when the price balances good. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.10.24 01:27:00 -
[13]
I bet that people are already stockpiling materials now that they know the basic requirements to build one, and it'll probably be exactly one week from release that the first one hits the market.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 01:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Constance Harme I bet that people are already stockpiling materials now that they know the basic requirements to build one, and it'll probably be exactly one week from release that the first one hits the market.
absolutely no doubt. But they are paying
Base materials + Loss + Bpo + profit margin + time/fuel(if built in pos) + High demand low volume = Very high price.
In 2 months
Loss is eliminates. Bpo costs have been paid for because of giant profit margin. and the high demand has been satisfied.
Meaning stable prices will be roughly about february. |
spaceman7777
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Posted - 2008.10.24 02:13:00 -
[15]
needs a bit of work. As it is, it has a ridiculous Capacitor recharge rate, to the point of nearly being able to perma run dual XL-Shield boosters
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.24 02:31:00 -
[16]
No ore compression means you will have to add another person to use it at top efficiency in an already established mining op instead of replacing the existing hauler pilot. :( You will still get better yield if you replace the hauler with the orca to carry ore to the station but it kinda goes against the role of a ship that has a command link bonus as you lose the bonus for any unfinished cycle and the next if your still docked when it rolls over. |
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Base materials + Loss + Bpo + profit margin + time/fuel(if built in pos) + High demand low volume = Very high price.
Not really.
Buying the needed capital components prebuilt from Jita sellorders (prices from a couple of hours ago), a ML 0 Orca costs 403m ISK to build.
Additionally:
[*]building them isn't really that much effort, it's just T1 [*]you don't need a lot of skill to build it, it's just T1 [*]5 days somethin production time (probably with F60, didn't check my Imps on Sisi) [*]very cheap BPO [*]BPO seeded in highsec
I guess we'll see 500m sales in the first 10 days. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zeba No ore compression means you will have to add another person to use it at top efficiency in an already established mining op instead of replacing the existing hauler pilot. :( You will still get better yield if you replace the hauler with the orca to carry ore to the station but it kinda goes against the role of a ship that has a command link bonus as you lose the bonus for any unfinished cycle and the next if your still docked when it rolls over.
ya but since u have space for 4+ jetcans u are either apparently the only hauler for quite a number of miners or really you haul infrequently enough that it does play a role. I suppose there might be a middlegrounds... maybe around 8-10 miners where ur the only hauler still but effective at hauling but need to haul constantly. If that's the case... get yourself a myrmidon or something. Easy enough.
Quote: needs a bit of work. As it is, it has a ridiculous Capacitor recharge rate, to the point of nearly being able to perma run dual XL-Shield boosters
I do believe that is meant. As you cant really fit a tank to it if the cap recharge rate wasnt nuts.
You certainly cant run dual XL-shield booster. 1 alone run around 31-32% stable. So barely permaruns the 1 one. On top of that... it's hardly a tank anyway... 150-200dps tank. You are better off to throw on large extenders for buffer only. 1x Medium neut is enough to smoke the tank. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mioelnir
Originally by: Jason Edwards Base materials + Loss + Bpo + profit margin + time/fuel(if built in pos) + High demand low volume = Very high price.
Not really.
Buying the needed capital components prebuilt from Jita sellorders (prices from a couple of hours ago), a ML 0 Orca costs 403m ISK to build.
Additionally:
[*]building them isn't really that much effort, it's just T1 [*]you don't need a lot of skill to build it, it's just T1 [*]5 days somethin production time (probably with F60, didn't check my Imps on Sisi) [*]very cheap BPO [*]BPO seeded in highsec
I guess we'll see 500m sales in the first 10 days.
How many cap cargo bays available in jita atm? Couple hundred? Barely. 37 for each.
So how many are being built? 5-6? How many people want to buy one immediately? >>>>>>5-6
You dont really seem to say anything else. Supply vs demand + profit margin + bpo cost of 1 billion? These are all still to be added. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 04:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 24/10/2008 04:21:57 Very few people build capital components for market sale, they are usually either produced for one's own need or the bpo gets copied.
The orca uses very low amounts of non-exotic capital components many people already have.
We've seen the massive initial oversupply with Marauders, which are way more skill and production time intensive.
1bn is only tier 2 bs bpo price niveau which is not much. The component set isn't large for a capital ship either.
Many capital producers will switch to Orcas in the first weeks, we've seen this with jumpfreighters already. Normal freighter (ship and/or bpc) supply went down drastically.
With decently researched component bpos, the raw mineral value of an Orca (trit 3.28 / pyer 4.77 / mex 24.70 / iso 64.70 / nox 121.84 / zyd 2899.97 / mega 3646.95) at ME 0 is around 350m ISK and at ME 2 around 321m ISK. If you take profits from freighter production and compare the production times, around 110-120m ISK profit per Orca is about right. This would but the break even for the BPO set (+-7.7bn) at 64-70 built ships or 45-50 weeks of production, which is about right too. So, the "normal" market price at current mineral values for an Orca will settle around 430-460m ISK. If we see an initial oversupply as we've seen with the Trinity ship introduction and especially marauders, prices will sink to 500m ISK rather quickly.
So much for my weather forcast.
[Edit] Clarification: "capital ship" etc should be read as "production involves the skill capital ship construction"
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Brego Tralowski
Gallente Forever Night
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:15:00 -
[21]
I guess my cap component sales will go up then WOOT |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:19:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/10/2008 06:19:14 Remove drone bay altogether.
Otherwise after half a year empire belts will look like this: - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones - afk cargo expanded orca mining with 5 mining drones
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Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:36:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Opertone on 24/10/2008 07:42:59 Edited by: Opertone on 24/10/2008 07:37:07 Orca? pretty useless without ORE compression (for hauling) or ore storage (for servicing a fleet of hulks)
Orca goes to a belt, 5 hulks mine all across the belt, thanks to long range tractor beams there is no need to mine into the same can. Hulks eject cans, Orca locks and pull the cans into its bay.
a hulk can eject a can every 2:30 minutes, with 5 hulks working in a belt, Orca will be full within 5 minutes.
Now what? Haul 30 000 m3 of ORE back in Orca? Use a group of haulers to transport the Ore from Orca to station? No, thanks.
A rigged iteron V can hold over 37 000 m3 of ore, it also has two 20 km tractor beams. It costs around 100 mill to have. Now how can Orca handle the task of hauling ore better than the rigged iteron?
Give a good reason to use a capital ship in a belt, a ship which would require 24/7 protection from wardeccing corporations and still needs a fleet of haulers.
With 200 000 m3 of ore storage it may be reasonable, then orca becomes a glorified hauler. However x10 Ore compression better suits the role of mining logistics ship.
It simply needs to be more agile that Rorqual and not so well protected by all means, or else this ship will be a bait for its cost. |
Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Opertone on 24/10/2008 07:40:57 blank... oops |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Opertone
Now what? Haul 30 000 m3 of ORE back in Orca? Use a group of haulers to transport the Ore from Orca to station? No, thanks.
Ummm it should be able to dock exactly same way as rorqual does... |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Opertone
Now what? Haul 30 000 m3 of ORE back in Orca? Use a group of haulers to transport the Ore from Orca to station? No, thanks.
Ummm it should be able to dock exactly same way as rorqual does...
When you dock you lose bonus from mindlinks. Your hulks will lose it for a cycle or two.
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Zakru Anul
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:38:00 -
[27]
most the Miners i know wanted the Orca too be the King of the Low End Ore types. the Veldspar,omber mining King. leave the Hulk for the Shiney rocks. we also saw that power coming in the form of Low sec/0.0 only.
now has others have pointed out very well. it's a over priced cargo ship that Fails at being a Cargo ship.
Be nice of CCP too come along and at least tell us there Ideal for the Orca as atm. i now only look forward too blowing up Said over priced cargo ship. |
Snow Banshee
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:56:00 -
[28]
This thing tank worse than a cruiser ... could be ok since its meant for high-sec, but give them at least some more "buffer" else could be too worthy to "suicide gank" them.i think 2x shields, armour & hull should be ok.
Also agree that T.beam range its a bit crappy... belts are much longher and in mining ops, miners could be quite far each other ... room for another tractor beam would not hurt either.
i would say:
high: 4 ( no turret slots. So 2x links and 2x tractor beams) meds: 3 lows: 2
and more hit points
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Ass Eels
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:41:00 -
[29]
I think it would be great if it could tractor barges in its own fleet at 1km/sec.
Still its deffo going to be something new for high-sec ganking which has gotta be a good thing. the pilots of these will nearly always be alts that are afk.
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Draahk Chimera
Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:13:00 -
[30]
Stupid to ask on the forums. Nothing but a bunch of whiners who arent happy until they, and only they, can buy ships with 8-8-8 slots, 45km webs, no tracking, 9 million hp and 95% resist across the board. |
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