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Hi Lo Faulty Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.31 04:01:00 - [151] All i have to say about the new skill additions for the Orca: Bad CCP, very very bad. go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. This will make it much less of the general use ship i thought it was intended to be. Karl Kopalnia > omg Hi Lo is the name I use for all my gaming characters for 15 years--you're the one that took it :*(
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.10.31 04:08:00 - [152] Originally by: Hi Lo All i have to say about the new skill additions for the Orca: Bad CCP, very very bad. go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. This will make it much less of the general use ship i thought it was intended to be. Mining Director? It doesn't take that long to train for, it is almost a capital ship.
Philip Stark	Posted - 2008.10.31 04:16:00 - [153] Edited by: Philip Stark on 31/10/2008 04:15:54 You had to have Mining Forman 5 in the first place, having mining director 1 isnt that big of a leap
Artassaut Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.11.01 16:05:00 - [154] Originally by: Philip Stark Edited by: Philip Stark on 31/10/2008 04:15:54 You had to have Mining Forman 5 in the first place, having mining director 1 isnt that big of a leap Nah, the first player-flyable version only needed Foreman 3. Maybe it's to stop the Achura alts? I'm all for that. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U.
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.01 20:24:00 - [155] Edited by: Max Essen on 01/11/2008 20:24:28 Hi All, I was messing about on the test server and, because I was not paying particular attention to what I was doing, fitted two MFL - Laser Optimization gang mods on the Orca. I was able to undock and activate both. Not sure if they would stack on the bonus' however I received no warning and both seemd to function properly. I will try to get a miner on with me soon to see what effect activating both has on his cycle time. Real Men Structure-Tank
ByFstugan Caldari Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.01 23:22:00 - [156] I have a new suggestion for a bonus to the ship, in order to make it cargo ore better than other stuff. This would be an addition to the other bonuses (or replace the other cargo-bonus). 'Industrial Command Ship' Skill bonus: 15% more effective ore storage This would make ORE take 75% less space at max level. _______________________________ The wise knows what he knows not.
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.02 00:59:00 - [157] Originally by: Philip Stark Edited by: Philip Stark on 31/10/2008 04:15:54 You had to have Mining Forman 5 in the first place, having mining director 1 isnt that big of a leap Actually, initially, it was mining formean 3 which made more sense. As it is now, you are required to have the skills to fly it using all of it's major capabilities. That woul be like reuireing Astrometrics to fly a Minmatar Probe instead of just Min Fig 2. (Full disclosure, I'm a bit tipsy right now) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Sarah Drax Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.02 10:37:00 - [158] Edited by: Sarah Drax on 02/11/2008 10:40:19 some basic grouped ideas from this thread is to A. Make the 7/8? corp hangers into 1 corp deposit on the orca thus increasing the space of the corp hanger from 30,000m3 each on the orca to a single 400,000m3+ depository... this as stated is actually reflected to the maintenance bay space depending which side you use. (BTW as an end note to this, the corp hangers are able to have people drop things into it. So in all you actually have 30,000m3 x7/8 or so to use as cargo space.) B. increase the number of high slots alone to 4-5 (3 links 1 track / 2 track 2 links) C. destroy the drone bay for more (shield/armour/hull) HP like the charon has (or at least 1/2). D. Allow charons to load up from the orca since the orca would be the collective can grabber but load it into a massive 2 loads total for 1 charon. The fact that you can actually equip modules in space should also allow the charon as such to load and offload. E. Please Dev's give this 1 new idea a look over, instead of the ore compression can you at least make the cargo bay of the orca able to compress %50 of a total ships space needs for loading into the maintenance bay without repackaging, like a special bonus? that doesn't kill rigs in the end. The orca is a giant jetcan, you'd just need to haul from it to at least delay the trip needed to the station to dump the huge load or else go with option D please dev's. I know that most of these have been stated, i am putting them into 1 post as simplified ideas that would somewhat balance the uses and issues of the orca, its security of corp hanger deposits and other peoples ideas. Otherwise why would we use an orca when we could just add a command ship to the mining ops like we do already? it'd still be more effective to use multiple haulers as well without changes to this ship. Maybe CCP should of come up with a bigger battleship that borders the cap ship in high sec instead? it would of at least introduced the possibility of going 10-15 slots, giving more diverse setups and stronger ideals to battle since you'd have more to defend or fight with!
Col Miyo	Posted - 2008.11.02 10:47:00 - [159] 400,000m3 ship maintenance!!! U must be kidding!! BS need at least 468,000m3!!! Can u make it at least 550,000m3 so we can put (1 BS and 1 Destroyer) please. Thanks
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.11.02 11:21:00 - [160] Better idea - leave it as is. This way, everyone who flies it is able to perform in its intended role - as a MINING SUPPORT VESSEL. It is not a transport ship for hauling fully-fitted and rigged battleships from one side of the universe to the other slower than the battleships themselves could be flown there. It is not a one-stop shop for all your cargo, tanking and corp hangar needs. It is there for one purpose alone - to sit in a belt alongside a fleet of barges and help them help you help you all. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Immersive Immersive Technology Solutions	Posted - 2008.11.02 13:17:00 - [161] Edited by: Immersive on 02/11/2008 13:19:17 I have to admit, I had hoped for more space in the corp hangar array (and less in the cargo). I also believe the Leadership skill requirements need not be so harsh. (I appreciate it's a command ship, but it's still only T1) That said, I still like what I see. I will be getting one ASAP. It definitely *should not* allow freighters to access it. The macro miners would never leave a belt again! --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML It's coming...
Caiman Graystock Comrades in Construction Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.02 13:47:00 - [162] Originally by: Col Miyo 400,000m3 ship maintenance!!! U must be kidding!! BS need at least 468,000m3!!! Can u make it at least 550,000m3 so we can put (1 BS and 1 Destroyer) please. Thanks It's a mining support ship. What do you need a BS for?
Brigitte Helm Minmatar Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2008.11.02 14:05:00 - [163] After reading and playing around with the Orca. I have to agree that one more high slot is required. It would give the option to fiddle with either 3 links or 2 tractor or even something else. I think the cargo bay/hanger bay is perfect as it is. Any larger and it runs the risk of becoming a hauler which is not what it is meant to be. Compression, well I did want to see it, but that is the difference between it and its larger brother. I would buy it without. The only addition to this is if as has been suggested by other, the ships able to be transported are limited to haulers and mining barges and slightly enlarged. It would be nice to have some sort of defence mechanism, but hey you could always pack logistic drones I suppose ;-). Cap isnt an issue for perma running a large shield as you only need enough to escape not to fight. As to the skills, lower then I was expecting making it easy reach of normal miner gangs and corp. Ideal for what is required. All in all very nice and balanced. Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2008.11.02 15:35:00 - [164] Originally by: Sarah Drax A. Make the 7/8? corp hangers into 1 corp deposit on the orca thus increasing the space of the corp hanger from 30,000m3 each on the orca to a single 400,000m3+ depository... this as stated is actually reflected to the maintenance bay space depending which side you use. (BTW as an end note to this, the corp hangers are able to have people drop things into it. So in all you actually have 30,000m3 x7/8 or so to use as cargo space.) Huh? I think you're confused. The orca only has one corp hangar, with divisions as all corp hangars have. The hangar is 30,000m3 in total, not per division. I'm in agreement that the orca should really have 4 hi-slots, so it can run all 3 links and a tractor, but I'm not gonna whine if we have to make a choice because I think people should have to make decisions, rather than get everything laid out for them. I don't think armor/shield should be boosted in exchange for it's drone bay tbh. I think drones are more sensible and more worthwhile than boosting the HP. It's not a freighter and shouldn't have hitpoints as such. The fact it has slots which you can use to tank it is good enough. DO NOT ALLOW FREIGHTERS TO DOCK WITH IT! Seriously Make group mining easier yes, taking it too far...no. It is supposed to act as a central point in a mining gang, you shouldn't be able to store practically a whole belt in the hauler before it needs to warp off. As other's have suggested, if you really want, use two orcas. As for skill requirements, I think they're fine. You can argue that a skill is suitable/not suitable blah blah blah. But for the ship you're getting I don't think the time investment is that long tbh. And I think the skills are suitable tbh, rorqual requires barge 5 too, if you're that fussed call them 'ORE ships' as there isn't a more suitable skill out there
ragewind Caldari Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.02 17:11:00 - [165] Originally by: Stitcher Better idea - leave it as is. This way, everyone who flies it is able to perform in its intended role - as a MINING SUPPORT VESSEL. It is not a transport ship for hauling fully-fitted and rigged battleships from one side of the universe to the other slower than the battleships themselves could be flown there. It is not a one-stop shop for all your cargo, tanking and corp hangar needs. It is there for one purpose alone - to sit in a belt alongside a fleet of barges and help them help you help you all. you do realise it can take haulers in there 2 mk5 ity or a hulk and a mk5 wont fit it dosnt have the space so mining support it may be but dont think you can actually fly spare mining ships to location for your gang mates lol
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.11.02 19:28:00 - [166] Edited by: Stitcher on 02/11/2008 19:29:37 Originally by: ragewind you do realise it can take haulers in there 2 mk5 ity or a hulk and a mk5 wont fit it dosnt have the space so mining support it may be but dont think you can actually fly spare mining ships to location for your gang mates lol * facepalm.jpg If there's one thing I really, really wish for, it's that I could dismiss somebody's argument as invalid on the grounds of their seeming to think that "lol" is an appropriate substitute for a full stop...* Here's a hint - you don't carry assembled haulers in other ships. You carry other ships in assembled haulers. A rigged Iteron V is designed for one purpose alone - to carry as much stuff as possible. Why the hell would you want something like that inside your Orca when it could be tailing behind you carrying more mining barges? - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Goti Evans	Posted - 2008.11.02 20:44:00 - [167] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 02/11/2008 19:29:37 Originally by: ragewind you do realise it can take haulers in there 2 mk5 ity or a hulk and a mk5 wont fit it dosnt have the space so mining support it may be but dont think you can actually fly spare mining ships to location for your gang mates lol * facepalm.jpg If there's one thing I really, really wish for, it's that I could dismiss somebody's argument as invalid on the grounds of their seeming to think that "lol" is an appropriate substitute for a full stop...* Here's a hint - you don't carry assembled haulers in other ships. You carry other ships in assembled haulers. A rigged Iteron V is designed for one purpose alone - to carry as much stuff as possible. Why the hell would you want something like that inside your Orca when it could be tailing behind you carrying more mining barges? What do you surgest that the 400K of Ship bay is used for in it role as mineing support?
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.11.02 23:41:00 - [168] Edited by: Stitcher on 02/11/2008 23:43:53 okay, well, my alt's small corp is in the fortunate scenario of not only being competent miners, but most of us also qualify for assault frigates - and because most are Gallente, that means Ishkurs. so what happens when senor can-flipping griefer comes a-knockin'? He finds himself faced by a swarm of ANGRY BEES instead of the soft carebear pie he was expecting. alternatively, there's the option of storing a couple of spare barges in case somebody shows up without theirs, or loses one somehow, the option of carrying different classes of mining barge - say, some mackinaws in case we decide we need to mine some ice instead... Seriously, it's not like there's only one valid solution, here. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Sarah Drax Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.03 08:23:00 - [169] Originally by: Caelum Mortuos Huh? I think you're confused. The orca only has one corp hangar, with divisions as all corp hangars have. The hangar is 30,000m3 in total, not per division. from what i've looked at on the test server and from the reports from ccp the corp hanger and maintenance bay are shared space, if you use 30,000m3 of space dropping in all divisions you would certianly be able to reach 210,000m3 capacity. then adding the 30,000 from its cargo bay and the extra 90,000m3 in there somewhere you certianly have enough space. it does not say you can only fill one division does it? does it say you cannot drop items in all divisions? and for last re-quote of CCP the corp hanger (not divisions) are shared with the whole maintenance bay thus meaning you would be able to use the space in all corp hanger divisions seperately.
piratezxp Caldari Cerulean Sky Fire Industries AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2008.11.03 10:37:00 - [170] Orca seems fine to me atm, from what i have tested and from what i have read. Only 1 thing is the drone bandwidth and bay, i feel that the orca being a cap ship should be able to control 5 medium drones at once, increase bandwidth and cargo capacity of drone bay, it should be able to protect itself in high sec aginst npc's rather than scratch their paintwork. Everything else is fine. Signature ---------------------
shoot me House Harkonnen	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:34:00 - [171] Edited by: shoot me on 03/11/2008 14:37:11 Originally by: Sarah Drax Edited by: Sarah Drax on 03/11/2008 08:55:35 Originally by: Caelum Mortuos Huh? I think you're confused. The orca only has one corp hangar, with divisions as all corp hangars have. The hangar is 30,000m3 in total, not per division. from what i've looked at on the test server and from the reports from ccp the corp hanger and maintenance bay are shared space, if you use 30,000m3 of space dropping in all divisions you would certianly be able to reach 210,000m3 capacity. then adding the 30,000 from its cargo bay and the extra 90,000m3 in there somewhere you certianly have enough space. it does not say you can only fill one division does it? does it say you cannot drop items in all divisions? and for last re-quote of CCP the corp hanger (not divisions) are shared with the whole maintenance bay thus meaning you would be able to use the space in all corp hanger divisions seperately. ----------TEST THIS PLEASE----------- can you assemble ships in the hold of the orca? if so then we may be able to deploy multiple hulks or other small ships from the orca one at a time. then fit em from the corp hanger/ Corp hanger is now 40k in total accoss all divisions. If you put 40k worth of ore into one division nothing can be put into any of the others. Ship maintenance bay is unaffected by how much ore is put in the corp hanger. Ships have to be assembled before they can be put in the SMB however they can be stored in the cargo hold and jettisoned into space which also assembles them. They can then be boarded then fitted in space using the corp hanger. So using 2 tech 2 cargo expanders and 3 tech 1 cargo expander rigs would allow the ship to carry around 21 packaged hulks which could then be fitted on site in space. Alternatively a mix of Haulers and Hulks. Don't know of anyway to repackage the ships in space so they would have to fly back to station to do that. People can fly to an op in a shuttle and store them in the Orca. So I guess it could be used to simplify huge mining ops although ejecting ships from cargo hold will prob be made an exploit and stopped.
Arthur Pewty Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:02:00 - [172] Can CCP please lock down the skills to fly this ship sooner than later (Or at least come out with the comment 'While nothing is final until it is on the live server, the skills for the Orca will now remain the same on the test server') Hopefully the plan is for the Orca BPO to be used as the basis for a T2 varient, which will allow for the transportation of Rigged Battleships. Given the ability of acceleration gates to discriminate between Battleships and non-Battleships there is hopefully a game mechanic which will allow for the size of the Orca's ship bay to be increased, without it allowing Battleships to be stored (they still need the ability to use the fitting option). Finally, can the Orca BPO get some love, so that I can see realistic Copy times and updated buil requirements, given the changes already made to cargohold sizes? Arthur Pewty
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.03 21:08:00 - [173] Wow, looking pretty good so far. Drone bay increased to 75 m3 - check Drone bandwidth increased to 50 MBit - check Cargohold increased to 30k m3 - check Corp Hanger size increased to 30k m3 - check 4th Mid slot added - check Realistically, what is left? Update the BPO Add a 4th Hi Slot (maybe) Increase Ship Maint Bay size to 675k m3 (but put batttleship restriction on it) In reality, just fix up the BPO and call it done as there is no way to make EVERYONE happy. Plus, this gives the possibility for "follow on" variations and T2 versions down the road ... Overall, I am very happy with how this has progressed. My thanks Real Men Structure-Tank
Riley Masterson	Posted - 2008.11.03 22:44:00 - [174] Make the ship maintenance bay larger, and restrict it to industrial and mining ships just the the Rorqual. This is not a highsec carrier, it is an industrial ship. Remove the drone bay and provide another high slot. Allow the use of capital tractor beams as well. Now, I have two more ideas, either one of which I think would be feasible. 1) Increase the cargohold of the Orca considerably, to maybe 500,000m3. Restrict the cargohold to ONLY ore and ice. Freighters have container restrictions so this should be pretty easy too. 2) Create a Mobile Refinery module that only the Orca can equip. The module can hold 10,000m3 (or just refine directly from the corp hangar) and functions as a station refinery(35%, +10 standing), all refined output going directly to the cargohold. This would allow also for refining of modules which I don't think would detract from its industry purpose.
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:29:00 - [175] Originally by: Riley Masterson Make the ship maintenance bay larger, and restrict it to industrial and mining ships just the the Rorqual. This is not a highsec carrier, it is an industrial ship. Remove the drone bay and provide another high slot. Allow the use of capital tractor beams as well. Now, I have two more ideas, either one of which I think would be feasible. 1) Increase the cargohold of the Orca considerably, to maybe 500,000m3. Restrict the cargohold to ONLY ore and ice. Freighters have container restrictions so this should be pretty easy too. 2) Create a Mobile Refinery module that only the Orca can equip. The module can hold 10,000m3 (or just refine directly from the corp hangar) and functions as a station refinery(35%, +10 standing), all refined output going directly to the cargohold. This would allow also for refining of modules which I don't think would detract from its industry purpose. Big fat NO! 1) The intention was for this ship to be able to haul rigged ships of all types (barring Battleships) around empire space, its not just a big mining support ship but a mini freighter also. 2) No, it needs those light/medium drones to protect the AFK miners. 3) Why would it need a capital tractor beam? It has a bonus to range and speed of small tractor beams. 4) Part of the Orca's role is to be a mini freighter, so restricting cargospace to ore and ice would be a big nerf. And 5) Just no.
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.04 00:33:00 - [176] Looking at the image that they have up for the 'Affordable Flexible Orca' on the QR Features page shows that they probably intend one of the major uses of the ship is hauling. (Why have 5 Orcas along with 2 Rorquals(?) with a group of 9 Hulks?) The Rorqs give better bonuses and doesn't require Mining director, so maybe a director can't fly a Rorq yet and is out in an Orca. This still leaves 4 Orcas with nothing to do but haul. But according to the skill requirements, you need Mining Director to fly an Orca so this image shows that there are at least 5 people who can give decent bonuses to the miners but only possibly 2 people who can give great bonuses to the op. It just doesn't make sense. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
ragewind Caldari Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:16:00 - [177] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 02/11/2008 23:43:53 okay, well, my alt's small corp is in the fortunate scenario of not only being competent miners, but most of us also qualify for assault frigates - and because most are Gallente, that means Ishkurs. so what happens when senor can-flipping griefer comes a-knockin'? He finds himself faced by a swarm of ANGRY BEES instead of the soft carebear pie he was expecting. alternatively, there's the option of storing a couple of spare barges in case somebody shows up without theirs, or loses one somehow, the option of carrying different classes of mining barge - say, some mackinaws in case we decide we need to mine some ice instead... Seriously, it's not like there's only one valid solution, here. k so can flipper appears and say there 4 of you mining away, yay now he has 4 AF's hitting him hard sadly you now have 2 spare hulks you couldn't store which with no pilot or skills he killed ok cool you can have other mining barges a whole 2 of them. why would you store haulers coz your corp has a mining op so little timmy heads over to help from a mission system were he has no rigged out mk5 but hay you have one in the orca not like you would uses that as a hauler you loses all the mining bonuses when it docks and they just not efficient seems quite reasonable reasons to want a larger bay no real point in having a gang orientated ship set up for mining operations if it can at best support 2 barges or one hauler and some frigs its not very gang related now is it
Lyvanna Kitaen Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:39:00 - [178] Originally by: Max Essen Edited by: Max Essen on 03/11/2008 20:48:18 Edited by: Max Essen on 01/11/2008 20:24:28 Hi All, I was messing about on the test server and, because I was not paying particular attention to what I was doing, fitted two MFL - Laser Optimization gang mods on the Orca. I was able to undock and activate both. Not sure if they would stack on the bonus' however I received no warning and both seemd to function properly. I will try to get a miner on with me soon to see what effect activating both has on his cycle time. Tested: MFL bonus' do not stack. I tested this. You can activate both but only get bonus from one. They don't stack.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.11.04 02:11:00 - [179] Originally by: ragewind k so can flipper appears and say there 4 of you mining away, yay now he has 4 AF's hitting him hard sadly you now have 2 spare hulks you couldn't store which with no pilot or skills he killed Who said anything about swapping EVERYONE over to the AFs? two would do fine. oh, and well done to little timmy for NOT STOPPING AT THE STATION TO GRAB HIS HAULER. seriously, f* little timmy. That ahole can go get his own goddamn ship - I'm busy carrying ones that AREN'T an automatic prerequisite for a succesful mining op, but which could conceivably come in handy if something out of the ordinary crops up. This ship is a support vessel not "automated mining operation in a box" - we're still expecting the corp to bring their own ships to the op from wherever they happened to store them - the ship bay's there to help make life easier, not to cuddle the whole corp and make mining ops as simple as the orca showing up and letting the rest of the corporation dawdle along in shuttles to equip themselves in the belts. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.04 14:58:00 - [180] Any updates from the Devs lately. Real Men Structure-Tank

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