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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:02:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Carebears from what i gather, are those who try and avoid confrontation as much as possible.
Which is interesting, as to 99% of people that is damned good advice. Sane = carebear.
OKAY!
Re: sanity & confrontation - Yes, but you're missing the point. Carebears are the type of guys who mouth off to some huge dude in the bar and then expect someone else to get them out of trouble. It's never their fault that they get the **** kicked out of them. It's never their repsonsibility to ensure their own safety or watch what they say and to whom. It's never their ass that should be on the line because it can't cash the cheque their mouth just wrote.
EvE has plenty of such people - just ask TRAPS.
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bowk
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: joxter
I am a carebear and am proud! Sign up below if you are a carebear and want CCP to stop trying to force us into losec or 0.0! We are the miners and producers and traders that make PvP possible, give us a good living in Empire with Decent protection from Concord and let the Pirates and anti-pirates play outside empire.
United we stand, divided we fall. Lets hear from all the carebears out there! Flamers will be ignored and ridiculed as the piratical losers they are (unless they have a fat wallet and want to buy lots of gear!)
Nope. Plenty of pvp'rs out there have alts who do the mining/trading/producing stuff, how do you think they make their isk ?
Moving lvl4 missions to lowsec, and as a consequence loosing the lvl4 carebears over this move, would probably only have a neglible effect on eve's economy, but probably would distribute more evenly the userload over the different servers were eve runs on...
So all good for me.
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Xeronn
Amarr
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:22:00 -
[63]
bashing the activity such as missioning/mining/trading is wrong, all these have a part in eve just as much as PvP...however! Concord and NPC corps need to go away!
everyone loves a strong industry on there side, but hell wasnt eve about player interaction, players shaping the galaxy and not some ****ed up wow-style NPC hand-holding?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:26:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Xeronn
bashing the activity such as missioning/mining/trading is wrong, all these have a part in eve just as much as PvP...however! Concord and NPC corps need to go away!
everyone loves a strong industry on there side, but hell wasnt eve about player interaction, players shaping the galaxy and not some ****ed up wow-style NPC hand-holding?
Alot of people fail to see how industry and PvP couldn't exist without eachother. Quite amusing to see one side bash the other without realising they're barking at the hand that feed them. 
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Xeronn
Amarr
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:34:00 -
[65]
heh ...right
The high-sec missioner who wants to run missions ALL ALONE never interupted finds any attempt at geting him to play with other players unfair so he, argues with the PvP`er who wants to gank all day long ALL ALONE and finds it unfair to be blobed , expecting ofcourse ships that can gank AND run away from any fight
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Shintai
Gallente
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: joxter
I am a carebear and am proud! Sign up below if you are a carebear and want CCP to stop trying to force us into losec or 0.0! We are the miners and producers and traders that make PvP possible, give us a good living in Empire with Decent protection from Concord and let the Pirates and anti-pirates play outside empire.
United we stand, divided we fall. Lets hear from all the carebears out there! Flamers will be ignored and ridiculed as the piratical losers they are (unless they have a fat wallet and want to buy lots of gear!)
When did CCP try and force you?
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Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:39:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Mostly Amazing
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Mostly Amazing
Just because you pay your subscription, doesn't mean you are a real EVE player.
Definition of a carebear:
"A person who's activities in EVE can be completely substituted by a macro since they require no player interaction or creative thinking in any way"
So, a gatecamper by your definition is a carebear?
0.0 ratter/miner?
While a market fiddler etc can't be a carebear.
You can say all you want, my definition still stands.
I would rather have a world filled with chinese ISK farmers, because at least they put themselves into risky situation ratting in 0.0 and no matter how bad their english is, at least they attempt to make conversation with you in local.
good that ccp developed the game and not you, seriously.
players play the game the way ccp desinged it and want it, not like you want it :)
if u dont like it, play another game :)
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Cincannatus
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:40:00 -
[68]
Personally i think
'carebears' should just stop supplying
'real eve players'.
As soon as the latter stop getting ships made for them, and selling overpriced faction tat in empire by former....eg faction LARs for 2bill plus (wtf?)
then eve will be a much saner place.
But it does puzzle me how a game dominated by free market economics has so many players who have little to no idea of the interaction within the playerbase to make the game as it is.
And let's not beat about the bush, it is obvious to one and all that Empire subsidises 0.0, not the other way around. If 0.0 'real' eve players had to survive without empire, they'd be a lot less prone to gratituous pvp and actually partake in meaningful encounters, and husband their resources more.
As it is, they can just pvp, lose a billion eventually, and find some faction tat to sell back to empire, keeping their own economy going.
But hey what do i know.
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baltec1
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:13:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mostly Amazing
Originally by: Heptameron
Originally by: Mostly Amazing
Just because you pay your subscription, doesn't mean you are a real EVE player.
Definition of a carebear:
"A person who's activities in EVE can be completely substituted by a macro since they require no player interaction or creative thinking in any way"
That's the biggest pile of pooh quote i've seen in a while... did you make that up yourself? My quote is from the site header so it's official rather than some ******ed individual view as is yours.
You can keep "quoting official quotes", but my definition of a carebear still stands.
I invite any carebear to prove me wrong by telling me how they are not following my definition.
Industrialist with teeth.
Angry carebear
hauler blob...
Just because we dont pvp all the time doesnt mean we dont have balls of steel.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:26:00 -
[70]
Maybe you should first agree on a definition for "Carebear" before you discuss about them. This would avoid pointless arguing. Then again, pointless arguing might be the point of this thread.
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:32:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Maybe you should first agree on a definition for "Carebear" before you discuss about them. This would avoid pointless arguing. Then again, pointless arguing might be the point of this thread.
Internet forum! duh! :P hehe
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:50:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Xeronn
bashing the activity such as missioning/mining/trading is wrong, all these have a part in eve just as much as PvP...however! Concord and NPC corps need to go away!
everyone loves a strong industry on there side, but hell wasnt eve about player interaction, players shaping the galaxy and not some ****ed up wow-style NPC hand-holding?
Alot of people fail to see how industry and PvP couldn't exist without eachother. Quite amusing to see one side bash the other without realising they're barking at the hand that feed them.
Actually there are a lot of pvp'ers that do industry "on the side", and industry players that understand the concept of risk. The problem is the pure pve players that thinks they should be able to play in perfect safety(provided by ccp) while still having an economic impact on the game.
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:50:00 -
[73]
i'm a carebear most the time i guess, in asmuch as i live in 0.0 and try not to get shot unless i can win, *shrug*
--
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Waah
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Esmenet
Sure just ask ccp to make a PVE server.
I wish they would. Consensual PvP should have been the way this game was based from the beginning and given how much support for that Eve has in the game already I don't see why it isn't done now. I say do away with lowsec and make it pure faction/corp war/flagged PvP.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:01:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Esmenet on 29/10/2008 15:02:08
Originally by: Waah
Originally by: Esmenet
Sure just ask ccp to make a PVE server.
I wish they would. Consensual PvP should have been the way this game was based from the beginning and given how much support for that Eve has in the game already I don't see why it isn't done now. I say do away with lowsec and make it pure faction/corp war/flagged PvP.
Yes sadly the way the game is going i think this is the only solution. Make a PVE server and allow carebears to transfer over to it before they ruin the game.
The single server used to be one of the selling points of the game, but its approaching a point where you have to choose between two "evils". I think a lot of people will regret moving though once they see how EVE is on a pve server.
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Angel Lightbringer
Dark Evolution Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:03:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Mostly Amazing
3. Whines on the forum.
ORLY?
Reading he forum extensively in the past couple months, carebears ain't the most vocal really.. re-read your data...
/fail...
-Angel |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Esmenet
Yes sadly the way the game is going i think this is the only solution. Make a PVE server and allow carebears to transfer over to it before they ruin the game.
Moving the carebears over to a separate server would indeed ruin the game, on both servers.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:12:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Esmenet on 29/10/2008 15:16:26
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Esmenet
Yes sadly the way the game is going i think this is the only solution. Make a PVE server and allow carebears to transfer over to it before they ruin the game.
Moving the carebears over to a separate server would indeed ruin the game, on both servers.
No, only the PVE server. Most pvp'ers also do some form of industry.
There are also quite a few PVE players that understand the concept of risk that probably would stay in the PVP server. The pvp server would probably be a lot better as i have a feeling we would get more movement and life in 0.0.
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Lerand Gaunt
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:27:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Xeronn
bashing the activity such as missioning/mining/trading is wrong, all these have a part in eve just as much as PvP...however! Concord and NPC corps need to go away!
Heh. You clearly havn't been here from the start. CCP has tried that allready and it failed misarabely (read: griever gangs forced people to stay docked in 1.0 space => massive subscription loss). To enliten you, there were no Concord retaliation in any form at the launch. CCP dreamed that the players would "keep the space safe".
Originally by: Esmenet
Actually there are a lot of pvp'ers that do industry "on the side", and industry players that understand the concept of risk. The problem is the pure pve players that thinks they should be able to play in perfect safety(provided by ccp) while still having an economic impact on the game.
Far, far away from the truth. Majority of carebears, pvpers and other playinstylists understand that there is or should be some risk in every aspect you do in eve. marketing, construction, transportation, missioning. You name it. Some have more risk and some less.
Some aspects unfortunately fail to fullfill these expectations. Hisec ganking was one of these at some point, not sure if it is anymore as there hasn't been much talk about it for some time.
It's the people who detest every other aspect except what they are doing that infest the forums. And these people can be found both in carebear and in pvp sides of the conversation. Usually trying to convince other with false of sometime even plain stupid excuses. For example: True, it is less risky to mine veld in 1.0 than it is to farm 10/10 complex. What (some) people seem to forget that it also yields only a tiny fraction of the money complex farming does.
Oh, btw, you do realise that you statement can be turned another way around:
"The problem is the pure pvp players that think they should be able to freely kill and grief any player they choose without any retaliation (by CCP or NPC Corp) and still have economic and playerbase impact on this game." |
Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:45:00 -
[80]
This is the worst thread I've seen in quite some time.
How can two groups of people not see that they need each other? This game would be a pile of crap without carebears, and just as bad without fighters.
Not only that, but there's probably less than 1% of pvp'ers who don't regularly grind missions, rat, plex, or mine to make money to buy stuff.
to the OP: if you want to demonstrate to the pirates and griefers how important you are to this game, the best thing the carebears can do is not log on for a month. Once a drake reaches a billion isk to buy they would be begging for you to return.
The same applies in reverse.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:50:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tiirae
to the OP: if you want to demonstrate to the pirates and griefers how important you are to this game, the best thing the carebears can do is not log on for a month. Once a drake reaches a billion isk to buy they would be begging for you to return.
The same applies in reverse.
As a pvp'er i would love this. Then i could get more use out of my industry skills.
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Dmian
Gallente
Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tiirae
This is the worst thread I've seen in quite some time.
Ditto.
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Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
Noriko Rei
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:56:00 -
[83]
As long as PvP pilots control the entrance and exit to every useful lowsec or nullsec system, maintain vast economic empires, and are in no lack for targets as long as they're willing to park at a high-traffic gate, I see no reason why they should object to those of us who don't care for that aspect of the game. I play for my own entertainment, and I'm thankful that CCP recognizes a great many of us are not entertained by being bullied by corporations with far more resources, putting them in a category where we couldn't legitimately compete with them even if we were so inclined.
What difference does it make if I play the game for the content rather than interacting with people whose playstyle I find unsavory, at best? It hurts no one if I want to run missions, watch the market, or simply sit in station and chat all day, without being bothered by every gatecamper with a web and scram who fancies himself a notorious pirate.
There's really nothing CCP could possibly do to encourage me to spend any significant amount of time in lowsec, as I have no desire to join someone else's corp for protection, where I'll be subjected to their wars and the sh*t they step in, paying taxes for their goals in EVE rather than my own. All I really want is a relaxing time sink for my $15 per month, and being ganked is a far cry from relaxing.
I don't begrudge anyone their right to beat the crap out of each other, if that's your thing. I do take issue with people who insist that I have to participate in that activity as a whipping boy because you want the easy merchant target rather than a combat pilot who came out to lowsec ready to deal with your bullsh*t. The fact is, for every PvP pilot complaining that carebears don't hand ourselves over to be freely ganked, I can show you a "l33t PvP'er" who beats a hasty retreat whenever someone with the guns to defend himself arrives on the scene.
EVE is a game. If PvP isn't fun, don't do it. If carebearing isn't fun, don't do it. Don't b*tch and moan about how the other guy isn't in it for your fun, though. Every man is playing for himself here.
...and yes, this post was made with an alt in an NPC corp just to annoy some of you who look down upon that.
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Slide
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:58:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Slide on 29/10/2008 16:04:05
There are as many PvE carebears as there are PvP carebears. Lately i had been traveling through 0.0 space to do some bussenis, i whas in a shuttle and got shot + podded by a perfect stranger. When i asked why, he answered; because i could. The challange and or gains for him to shoot and pod me in a shuttle whas zero. Just because he played the PvP part of the game does not make him a smarter or better player. I didn't mind what he whas doing, it whas his fun as i have mine.
I play mainly PvE in this game with a industrial touch, i love it, i do not mind risk either and usualy keep my eyes open wherever i am. I love this game because the variety of "save and hostile" space and all the areas inbetween. I am happy its not only a "spaceshipshooter", as someone mentioned before.
Well said Noriko Rei 
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Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:01:00 -
[85]
As per most mmo's PvE is a means to an end... Maybe not your end but an end. Sure your a big alliance cap pilot. Half your ships were prolly produced by "carebears" at least partially. I know most Pos fuel is mined by "Carebears."
In any mmo where you can produce items of high quality, a carebear is to some extent clothing, equiping,or fitting. At least one pvp player whether its theirs or not.
FW was CCP's most recent attempt to open the doors of PvP to the PvE players, by incorperating PvE elements to it.
Carebears are a vital part of the Eve Cycle..... and they gimme someone to shoot when im real bored....
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:15:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Noriko Rei
What difference does it make if I play the game for the content rather than interacting with people whose playstyle I find unsavory, at best? It hurts no one if I want to run missions, watch the market, or simply sit in station and chat all day, without being bothered by every gatecamper with a web and scram who fancies himself a notorious pirate.
You are very wrong. The ability to play in perfect safety and still make competitive isk hurts the game a lot because it separates the pvp and the isk generating activities into two different worlds.
Tusko hopkins made an excellent thread in the assembly hall forum where he shows many of the same points from a different angle:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=907751
EVE pvp is turning from a war over resources into a wow-style battleground.
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Noriko Rei
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Noriko Rei
What difference does it make if I play the game for the content rather than interacting with people whose playstyle I find unsavory, at best? It hurts no one if I want to run missions, watch the market, or simply sit in station and chat all day, without being bothered by every gatecamper with a web and scram who fancies himself a notorious pirate.
You are very wrong. The ability to play in perfect safety and still make competitive isk hurts the game a lot because it separates the pvp and the isk generating activities into two different worlds.
Tusko hopkins made an excellent thread in the assembly hall forum where he shows many of the same points from a different angle:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=907751
EVE pvp is turning from a war over resources into a wow-style battleground.
Anyone can waltz into deadspace where some carebear is running missions, steal all the loot and salvage all the wrecks with impunity for all practical purposes. Many carebears aren't going to bother fighting back, even if the thieves are flagged, due to the fact that many are taking advantage of that game mechanic to draw carebears into PvP. Therefore, carebears are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and CCP has given you plenty of ways to ruin carebear fun; it's just never enough, is it?
You won't be satisfied until everyone is required to play your way, and that is exactly the sort of mentality that drives people to other games. While you may encourage people to leave for WoW, CCP would probably like to retain their playerbase, and if doing so only requires that they throw us a small bone in not allowing you to make slaves of the whole community, then I'm sure they'll continue to throw us that bone.
It's hard enough to enjoy the game with people like you trying to force everyone to compete with you on grossly uneven terms, so I doubt CCP is going to make it worse. No matter how much you can't stand it, there will always be casual solo carebears like me who aren't playing for PvP, and wouldn't stand a chance at winning if we were.
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THISISNT NAM
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:39:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
the guy who logs in to chat about football.
I hate that guy
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Norrin Ellis
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:44:00 -
[89]
Originally by: THISISNT NAM
I hate that guy
Is your name taken from The Big Lebowski?
"This isn't 'Nam, Walter! There are rules!"
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:56:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Mission runners, can't do with macro, too much variables, need to think or pop(especially in later levels).
Market "runner", can't do with macro, need to think MORE then a gatecamper. From a numeral, accounting, etc point of view.
actually, there are tons of guys using market macros, seriously, watch the clockwork efficiency that certain sell orders change, and well, as far as mission macros go, its not really that hard, i mean, the guy probably needs to be semi at the cpu, to jump the acceleration gates, but once in, a macro could probably easily deal with the rats therein.
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