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Tech II rigs. Why that expensive?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Manos Soban	Posted - 2008.11.24 08:18:00 - [1] Headlines say it all. Tech II rigs are too expensive even for those who have hundrend of millions on their wallets. Make them cheaper, please...
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:29:00 - [2] some of them are actually very cheap. There is no price set on rigs, its totally player controlled. /Riv
Xindi Kraid Cerulean Sky Fire Industries	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:56:00 - [3] Rigs are expensive because salvage is expensive and the mission rats where most of the salvage comes from don't give out the high quality stuff needed for T2 rigs. -Xindi Kraid CSFI lead engineer and shipwright Improve POS cargo access
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:58:00 - [4] t2 rigs require blue salvage, and in a whole 18 months of salvaging, i have found two pieces of blue salvage. maybe im doing it wrong, but blue salvage is bloody rare. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:05:00 - [5] T2 rigs are made from T2 salvage and T2 salvage comes from T2 ships and that makes it very expensive. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Rivqua There is no price set on rigs, its totally player controlled. Strictly it's CCP controlled. They control what drops, where, and that in turn determines rarity; supply & demand does the rest. The OP clearly would like drops to increase or be more available. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:14:00 - [7] T2 rigs come from T2 salvage. T2 salvage is a PITA to get. . . T1 salvage can come from any wreck, and requires Salvaging I to get. T2 salvage requires the wreck of a commander (faction) rat, or a T2 player ship, and requires Salvaging III to get (IV if you want it done anytime soon). Needless to say, these are not common things compared to the T1 ships and common rats that die in their thousands every day and are salvaged by mission runners (or their alts). -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Saraah Leeown	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:37:00 - [8] Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days. It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. Hopefully T3 will fix that, and not become standard like T2 is now
Sigras	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:41:00 - [9] Edited by: Sigras on 24/11/2008 10:42:12 define too expensive . . . too expensive for you or me maybe, but ask James Kirk if its "too expensive"
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.24 11:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days. See, this is why perspective, and failure to see other people's, causes so many problems on the forums. Do enlighten us as to what is suddenly 'too easy' compared to ye olde days of yore, whilst taking into account a population explosion and a large number of new ship designs, oh and a change from T2 BPO lottery to invention. Originally by: Saraah Leeown It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. It still does. The distinction is that you've probably been in-game long enough to have made a bundle, or your large alliance makes a bundle, etc. Try making a new char without alt support and tell me how cheap T2 is. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
ramification	Posted - 2008.11.24 11:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days. It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. Hopefully T3 will fix that, and not become standard like T2 is now T2 Rigs<>T2 modules. Stupid post is stupid.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.25 09:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 25/11/2008 09:13:21 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: Saraah Leeown Couldn't disagree more. T2 rigs aren't too expensive, if anything everything else is too cheap. T2 stuff costs next to nothing, and it's far too easy to make isk these days. See, this is why perspective, and failure to see other people's, causes so many problems on the forums. Do enlighten us as to what is suddenly 'too easy' compared to ye olde days of yore, whilst taking into account a population explosion and a large number of new ship designs, oh and a change from T2 BPO lottery to invention. Perspective eh, here's mine. A T2 fit Cruiser can be had for under 20 million, that's one hour of L4 grinding in a good setup. After insurance, it's even cheaper. When invention hit TQ, that might get you two Cap Recharger IIs. Back then, the vast majority of the ISK in a T2 fit ship was in the mods, now it's in the ship itself, which is insurable. Why is isk so easy to get these days? There are plenty of reasons, pathways to money that didn't exist years ago. Salvaging, Invention, Exploration. Salvaging in particular can be done by anyone, and a single ATB will net you a quarter of a million, which will double the reward of an L1 mission right there. The rigs that salvage makes in turn make ships stronger, and give more room for error in tougher missions (which I should add, have been made easier in the past 2 years). The LP store has made implants easily available and faction gear is the new T2. I've seen two month old characters flying Navythrons, and I'm sure he wasn't an alt. His DPS output was lacking, but that was a 350 million ISK ship back then (a few months ago). Any newbie can start making ISK immediately, everyone starts with 800k SP, that was put in about 6 months before you started, before that most players started with about 30,000 SP. T2 rigs are not like other T2 gear, T1 rigs are the closest equivalent (though I think of them as being closer to faction-level). T2 rigs are more appropriately compared to faction gear, if not low-end Deadspace gear. People will T2 fit a ship before they rig it, and usually use faction before they even consider T2 rigs. Remember, there is nothing beyond T2 rigs for those slots. They should be rare and special. If you want them cheaper, increase the supply of the component parts or go into the business yourself. Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: Saraah Leeown It used to mean something when you lost a T2 fit ship, but these days you have to lose a crap load of ships for it to really have an effect. It still does. The distinction is that you've probably been in-game long enough to have made a bundle, or your large alliance makes a bundle, etc. Try making a new char without alt support and tell me how cheap T2 is. You're old enough to have made a bundle too. You've been in game a year, if you can't make ISK now, you're doing it wrong. /rant off -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Ackuula	Posted - 2008.11.25 11:40:00 - [13] It would be nice if they had some BPO's that let you create the components yourself out of basic minerals and/or advanced materials, or be able to create the T2 salvage items from the T1 varients. I mean after all, where did those salvaged items come from in the first place? A large portion of Eve's industrial too so I'm not holdingg my breath on this one.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:15:00 - [14] faction rats drop em. Perhaps they could be dropped more often in 0.0 the other source could be increased is radar and mag sites where u have to hack
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:32:00 - [15] True. T2 salvage is extremely rare and I have only found three since the salvaging was introduced. It would be nice to be able to repair T1 salvage using minerals and a new set of skills. Still make it expensive to repair them but at least it would mean that some people could build up a few over time. They could either sell them for a respectable profit or use them to build their own T2 rigs. Paying out millions in one hit is hard paying smaller amounts to repair T1 salvage is possible, even if it costs just as much when you total it all up. Build cost ratio would remain the same but T2 rigs would actually be seen on the market. I think I've seen maybe 20 on the market in total over the last year in Tash-Murkon. Even if you had the isk to buy one, it's rare that you'll find the one you want anyway. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Daevonar on 25/11/2008 13:49:38 To the majority of folk... I remember when I was young.... the grass was greener, twas all just fields as far as the eye can see... you young folks don't know how hard it was back then, back then you had to work 25 hours a day, live off a husk of bread a day, maybe a scrap of prok rind as a treat on a sunday. Yes, the hard life really made you appreciate things back then, which brings me to another point, back then we respected our elders, not like you young 'uns today....... ... .. . For heavens sake, worlds change, economies change, life goes on, things are never the same, perspective alters, learn to live for the unexpected, dont dwell on how it used to be. ... and to the OP, you might like to explain why you think greater availability is beneficial... otherwise it just sounds ike envy that you can't afford them right now... like me :( Dae.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 25/11/2008 14:07:03 Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Some ranting... You're old enough to have made a bundle too. You've been in game a year, if you can't make ISK now, you're doing it wrong. /rant off I'm glad you put the rant bit, because otherwise I might have mistaken you for actually taking what I said as personally applying to me and being serious about it, rather than the correct approach for Features and Ideas, which is to ask the question 'what does this do for the entire game, including new players?'. Whether I personally have money or not is irrelevant; that I can appreciate the point of view of a new player and the previous poster apparently could not is the aspect I was chastising about. As to the figures, sure, things are cheaper now. Your entire rant was about how things are cheaper, which I already knew. The question I asked was why is it too easy. Why is this proliferation a bad thing? You failed to answer that. As to T2 rigs, as I already said at the start, it depends where CCP want to take rigs. Do they want a flexible system available to the majority, or a really serious loss and therefore available only to the very rich. The answer to that determines whether the OP's idea is a good one. /rant Next time read what I damn well wrote before flaming me personally. /rant off ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
chaotic pandemonium	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:11:00 - [18] I will agree that t2 can be expensive for those of us who may not have the time to grind but have chosen the path of mission running or mining. There are ways to make money but I havent really found a good way to make a large amount of profit. The reason that they are priced as they are is that its not unreachable for those of us who maybe havent found a way to make large sums of money or have time to grind but rewards those who have worked hard for it. In the case of rigs yes tech two is helpful but you can still have a fighting chance even if you only have tech 1. Strategy or groups can also make the difference. Just remember there is always several ways of doing one thing.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:19:00 - [19] There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time.

Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:20:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. argg... So now you want to boost high sec missions and hurt 0.0? Or is this some sort of buff to high sec missions in high sec to bring actual value to them as you plan to utterly destroy missions? I honestly cant think of any other reasons... false dichotomy aside... that's pretty epic gay. Here is how you use the "broken salvage" YOU MAKE DRONE RIGS AND MINING RIGS USING THEM. So easy my dumbass self can see it. Tons of people want real drone rigs and mining rigs. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.11.26 00:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 26/11/2008 00:02:07 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth <stuff> Is proliferation a bad thing? No, cheap, available T2 levels the playing field nicely. Anyone can afford T2 and cheap, insurable T1 ships. However, I don't want to see proliferation like that beyond current levels. T1 rigs are usually used on larger ships these days, though sized rigs may change that. That I would not consider a bad thing, as it doesn't make sense to put 15m rigs on a 200k frigate. However, I would consider T2 rigs becoming cost effective for most ships a bad thing. T2 rigs being fit like T1 rigs are now would make them pretty much required for high-end PvP fits, which is just another set of skills you suddenly really want to be competitive, like Heat is now. In the current market, a T2 rigged ship is probably sporting some Deadspace or Officer mods, which I think most people can agree should not be commonplace. Before patch, it was cheaper to use a Gistii B MWD on an interceptor than it was to put a Polycarbon rig on it, an extreme example to be sure, but this kind of pricing is why I consider T1 rigs to be comparable to mild faction fits. T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them. Originally by: Astria Tiphareth in another thread Harsh? Yes, but I'm sick and tired of reading this same suggestion dressed up in different ways over and over again, so apologies if I am more cutting than usual. Reasons similar to that are why I went off on you. It wasn't even aimed at you, you just had the meatiest post in the thread and it got morphed to fit the available target. Should have hit Close Tab instead of Post Reply, but I didn't. Respect for not escalating that further. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.11.26 00:46:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly I'm just sitting here in my corner, drooling quietly. I so want reasonably-priced small rigs so that I can pimp my frigates. -- Salpad
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.26 01:04:00 - [23] To all those complaining about impending price drops etc. It would be reasonable to presume that repairing T1 salvage and creating the rigs with them would work out almost as expensive as making the rigs out of salvaged T2 components currently is. One of the biggest problems with T2 rigs is the rarity rather than the price. Considering the bonuses you get from them, they're on a par with the top end hardwire implants. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.11.26 01:16:00 - [24] Quote: T1 rigs are usually used on larger ships these days, though sized rigs may change that. That I would not consider a bad thing, as it doesn't make sense to put 15m rigs on a 200k frigate. However, I would consider T2 rigs becoming cost effective for most ships a bad thing. different rig sizes... aka changing the # of salvage parts required to build is a great thing. destroying the value of t2 salvage hurts very much so. Quote: T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them. Except this will lead to an overall increase of t1 salvage. With fairly minimal drop in price of the t2 salvage. Currently it's fairly hard and rare to get t2 salvage. Pretty much with lowsec-0.0 risk. t1 salvage on the otherhand is pretty damn common and you get lots of it from high sec missions. Even if it's 100:1 for t2... it'll still be more cost effective. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.11.26 01:36:00 - [25] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. Are there any plans on reviewing all the rigs with regard to materials used (cost), bonuses/penalties and popularity? I would really like to see them a bit more balanced. Having some salvage parts that go for ~200 ISK and others that go for ~200k ISK speaks volumes. There's definitely a lot of room for improvement, and since rigs were meant to increase variety and (hopefully) not stacked bonuses, that room should be used. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.11.26 19:17:00 - [26] In my humble opinion salvaging and rigs should be reworked when T1 components come out. Then salvaging will yield T1 or T2 construction components instead of the current salvage pieces and rigs are built out of those components. Granted, it'd nerf the salvaging mini-profession but it make much more sense in regards to what rigs are and what they are made out of. I mean, why not just build a ship and disassemble it for the 'salvage' parts needed for rigs? With T1 components it becomes even more unreasonable that you can't do this. Salvaging would still be a profitable profession, just no longer so separated from all other production types. Existing Salvage can be transformed into appropriate amounts of fitting components with a script running over the database during the patch. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.28 06:39:00 - [27] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 28/11/2008 06:41:44 Originally by: Jurgen Cartis T2 rigs are uncommon and therefore special, and I believe some things in Eve should be uncommon. Some things were never meant to be cost effective. T2 rigs are one of them. I believe T2 rigs could still achieve this at 2.5-3x the T1 price. That would put a T2 trimark at around 45-54 mil a pop, which would be an 80-110 mil increase in cost for what amounts to a 10% increase in EHP on my triple trimark blasterthron. AKA I'm pretty sure T2 rigs would still be quite rare and special. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:16:00 - [28] Moved to GD channel. Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:21:00 - [29] Rare? Bah! Just sit outside Jita 4-4 with a hot salvager… No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:24:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Applebabe Moved to GD channel. Sorry but shouldnt this be in Ships & Modules?

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:28:00 - [31] Thanks. Re-moved to " Ships & Modules" channel. Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Abrazzar In my humble opinion salvaging and rigs should be reworked when T1 components come out. Then salvaging will yield T1 or T2 construction components instead of the current salvage pieces and rigs are built out of those components. Granted, it'd nerf the salvaging mini-profession but it make much more sense in regards to what rigs are and what they are made out of. I mean, why not just build a ship and disassemble it for the 'salvage' parts needed for rigs? With T1 components it becomes even more unreasonable that you can't do this. Salvaging would still be a profitable profession, just no longer so separated from all other production types. Existing Salvage can be transformed into appropriate amounts of fitting components with a script running over the database during the patch. awww ffs did CCP take that t1 component idea seriously.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:43:00 - [33] simple boost to 0.0 would be rigged ships drop more slavage based on how many rigs they have. simple, effective. what do you think.
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 11:01:00 - [34] Jason Edwards - morons like you should just stop posting and go play Warcraft. The dev posts a very logical and sane post about resolving some issues with salvage (and hence rig prices) by adding differnet rig sizes, and you post a completely moronic rant about mining rigs with an incredibly arrogant tone as if you know better than them. Please think before you post, then think again, again, and again until you don't sound so *****ed. Ta. Now that the unpleasantness is over I'll get on with my post: Since inception the real issue with rigs has been one size fits all hulls, making rigs ridiculously expensive to fit on frigates relative to bigger ships such as battleships etc. Rigs themselves have never been brilliantly balanced cough* polycarbons cough, given the across the board "pre-nerfed" penalties/bonuses on certain rigs compared to others such as Energy Rigs. This badly needs addressing when they revisit rigs (Spring 2009? I'll believe it when I see it. Too optimistic if you ask me considering T3 and all the other stuff for them to do) The salvage itself has been tweaked over time to make some salvage more useful than the rest - this is good, it creates good markets although it definately needs tweaking further since there are a lot of relatively useless salvage components that sell for less than 1 ISK. One question I have is if salvage itself be split into size categories or just rigs? For example S, M, L Capacitor Consoles and the like - If this is the case - What will happen to the existing salvage? I'm looking forward to the changes, but please CCP, more importantly than rushing it out - make it balanced. I hate having well researched rig BPOs for things that just will NEVER be usefull thanks to the over the top penalty, weak bonus compared to other more useful rigs you can build with the same salvage. Thanks.
Eve Spair Caldari Black Mesa	Posted - 2008.11.28 11:02:00 - [35] I'll just continue to run my high sec lvl 3 missions with T2 salvage in them. But im not gonna tell which agent im using as i dont want more competition for my valuable parts :)
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2008.11.28 11:16:00 - [36] Why not make the low-sec npcs drop small quantities of T2 salvage ? make low-sec more attractive !
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 11:33:00 - [37] Isnt the main source of T2 salvage blown up T2 ships as in the kind players fly?
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.28 11:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Hyveres Isnt the main source of T2 salvage blown up T2 ships as in the kind players fly? Not realy in my opinion, most common T2 Ships(Ceptors, HACs, Recons) only drop very low quantitys, often not even worth salvaging(because of the time needet to do so) in return of the 300-800k you will get out of it in most cases. Dooing explorations or plexes instead yielding a more constant amount of T2 Rig Parts, even ratting for Faction spawns does give out some(but only realy worth cruiser+, frigs atm do drop them not that often). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:01:00 - [39] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. I really, REALLY like the sound of this. I don't want to set the world on fire
God's Secret	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:06:00 - [40] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. <3 a sexy man is.. well.. a sexy man..
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:18:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. Thats some mighty fine foreforth from CCP on an issue thats been braught up a few times over the months. Glad its been looked at. Now when you mean size variants, I assume you mean that there will be Frigate+Destroyer, Cruiser+Battlecruiser, Battleship, Capital sized rigs? Will these have the same stats as they have now but vary in the amount of salvage materials required for their production? At this point in time, although T1 frigates have 3 rig slots, because they are cheaper and expendable ships, to throw 5-30m in rigs onto it would be lunacy. If you were to drop the a rig to something more appropriate in regards to materials E.g. Cargohold Optimization I Current: Alloyed Tritanium Bar- 110, Fried Interface Circuit- 130, Tripped Power Circuit 75 Frigate T1&T2, Destroyer T1: ATB 11, FIC 13, TPC 7 Cruiser T1&T2, Destroyer T2, Industrial T1&T2, Mining Barges T1, Battlecruiser T1: ATB 55, FIC 65, TPC 38 Battlecruiser T2, Battleship T1, Mining Barges T2: Same as Current. Battleship T2, Capitals: ATB 220, FIC 260, TPC 150 If you mean something like this then I am all for it, that would be a reasonable way to put it. As for T2 salvage, sure having a way to make T2 salvage would be sweet, something tho that I hopy you don't water down too much so as to make the T2 rigs like T2 modules are now, mandatory.
Chaos Hellbreth	Posted - 2008.12.03 19:27:00 - [42] You should give drone region rats a higher drop ratio of T2 salvage. Thats the best option :whistles:
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.03 20:16:00 - [43] Originally by: MotherMoon simple boost to 0.0 would be rigged ships drop more slavage based on how many rigs they have. simple, effective. what do you think. Hmm. I'd like to see a meaningful difference in loot drop from rigged ships and unrigged ones. On the other hand any extra amount of materials you re-introduce into the market is going to accelerate price degradation, so that might be rather dangerous territory.
sandamar Gallente Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:59:00 - [44] Ofc tII rig are very expansive but I don't see the problem. Take a tech I module take it tech II variation do : price of tech I/ price of tech II you get a ratio, Then do the same for tI rig and tII rigs and you got close to the same ratio. Going from tI rig to tII you're looking for multiplying the price by 10-20 isn't it the same for tII module or tII ship, An omen cost something like 4 millions and a zealot cost 70-80 which is 20 times the tI price. The CCC cost maybe 20 mils and the CCCII cost like 400-500 which is still arround 20 times the price. So I don't see the problem here. To me if you want to reduce the price for tII you have to reduce the price for tI aswell.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.12.04 02:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Chaos Hellbreth You should give drone region rats a higher drop ratio of T2 salvage. Thats the best option :whistles: This would be pure win! ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Walker Bulldog VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2008.12.04 05:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Chaos Hellbreth You should give drone region rats a higher drop ratio of T2 salvage. Thats the best option :whistles: My name is Walker Bulldog and I approve of this post.
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.12.04 06:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Chaos Hellbreth You should give drone region rats a higher drop ratio of T2 salvage. Thats the best option :whistles: Do want! ------------------------------------------ "Russian is an unusual language if you're not used to it. It is like speaking to angry aliens from the planet of Murder or something" Nick Breckon
Lauri Andromedae	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 24/11/2008 10:16:54 Originally by: Rivqua There is no price set on rigs, its totally player controlled. Strictly it's CCP controlled. They control what drops, where, how much, and that in turn determines rarity; supply & demand does the rest. The OP clearly would like drops to increase or be more available. If rigs are supposed to be a rich kids toy and ISK sink, then bad idea. If they're supposed to be a more available flexible system, available to those without billions, then might be a good idea. All depends where CCP see rigs going. Players control it by takind down ships in PVP. CCP controls the BPC drops, and they are cheap.
Tesal Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:00:00 - [49] Power Circuits and Logic Circuits have been crashing for a couple of months and are down to a fraction of their former value. Capacitor consoles on the other hand have more than doubled to make up for it. Some T2 salvage sells for less than many T1 salvage because those rigs are simply not in demand. When it comes down to it, there are only a few rigs people want, and those are in extremely high demand, the rest of the rigs are rarely, if ever, used because the drawbacks are too large. Part of the problem with the current rigs are that the most popular ones don't have anything in the way of serious drawbacks, like fitting a shield rig on a BS that penalizes its signature radius (its a huge ship already, it doesn't really matter), so people buy a ton of them, and the price skyrockets. The rest of the rigs, I don't even think people train the skills to use them because they don't really serve a purpose, like drone rigs for example, which suck up CPU as a penalty affecting your ability to fit guns and is only useful on a Dominix or carrier in rare situations, or weapon rigs which hurt your power grid so badly that often you can get almost as much firepower without the rig by just fitting bigger guns. I think it is mostly capital ship pilots, and insanely rich mission runners that use the "nice" T2 rigs (like Capacitor Control Circuit II). People like the cap, armor, speed or shield rigs. A few other rigs are used for non-combat uses, but there the penalty is irrelevant because they don't have to max out their fittings. So in summary, the cost isn't just a function of salvage supply, its also a function of usefulness. If you doubled the capacitor console salvage supply, I doubt the price would drop too much, demand is simply too high. It would only suck up more logic circuit and power circuit, and the price gain from those would equalize with the price drop from the capacitor consoles, so you might only see a moderate drop in price. So you can get cheap T2 rigs, the only problem is that they are all completely useless to the point where its not worth training the skills to use them. And if you want nice rigs, you have to pay. In my mind, the simplest way to fix rigs, is to fix the rig skill. I would change it to a level 4 skill and improve the reduction in penalties so that if you trained it to V for each category, the corresponding rigs would be useful to fit on a ship, perhaps with near 0 penalty. Or perhaps introduce an advanced rigging skill that would do the same thing. If that happened you would find cheap rigs that are highly effective. This in turn may take some pressure off the shield, cap and armor rigs so they drop a bit in price. I think this would broaden the rig market, and give people a chance to make new stuff as well and I might be able to sell my vast pile of broken drone transcievers .
Tesal Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss ...One question I have is if salvage itself be split into size categories or just rigs? For example S, M, L Capacitor Consoles and the like - If this is the case - What will happen to the existing salvage? I'm looking forward to the changes, but please CCP, more importantly than rushing it out - make it balanced. I hate having well researched rig BPOs for things that just will NEVER be usefull thanks to the over the top penalty, weak bonus compared to other more useful rigs you can build with the same salvage. Thanks. If that is the case, they should just shrink the bonus of each rig, and add more rig slots to each ship, depending on size. That way, they don't have to mess with BPO, either that or allow rigs to be fitted like ammo, with more than one in a slot, maybe a cap ship would need 10 rigs to fill a slot, and a BS 5 rigs, cruiser 2, frig 1, something like that. I would like to see rigs be removable, like scripts, so you can actually swap them out in flight. I think the permanence of rigs prevents people from spending isk on a specialty setup.
Burn Mac Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:04:00 - [51] With the influx of AF:s fighting it out in lowsec i have noticed that i can yield alot of t2 salvage. Hence i fit my prober alt out with a salvager. WTS: Intact Armor Plates
Serra Csylleste	Posted - 2008.12.04 12:24:00 - [52] Although I personally am by far unable to afford the T2 rigs, I personally see nothing wrong with the prices of them. Though in many cases I do not think the T2 variant is significantly stronger than the T1 root to justify such a major difference in price. Given, if there was much more of a difference between the two, the players able to afford T2 rigs would be nearly untouchable...but a slightly greater margin would certainly peak my interest. Benefit vs. cost at present, I personally have no interest in T2 rigs, and they are just not worth it. Most T2 ships with full T2 fits can be replaced, uninsured, than you can by the 2 T2 rigs to go in it. Not really that appealing when you think about it...
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.12.04 12:26:00 - [53] Alot of the T2 rigs are pure awesome, and only cost 35-50 mil, it's just that people can't really figure out how to use them, and focus on the standard Trimark/Nanobot/Aux Pump & Shield Variants / CCC. There are so many useful and perfectly accesible T2 rigs. /Riv
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.12.04 12:41:00 - [54] I have a possible option for increasing intact salvage in the game. How about the modules on a ship go into the salvage drop calculation? Obviously, still random, but this would mean that tech II modules would have a chance of putting intact salvage into a wreck, even off a tech 1 shipwreck. This would increase the general supply of Intact Salvage, and reduce the cost of tech ii rigs down from their insanely exclusive level. (exclusivity is fine, but currently, the price is SOOO much more than the added benefit the tech ii provides) POS Personal Storage
UniTwo	Posted - 2008.12.04 13:03:00 - [55] Recently i salvaged jerdola wreck, and what a surprise! 15 nice Intact plates. Well they worth a fortune, how can u say, with 2min of salvaging u gain almost 200M in salvage. Keep T2 salvage has it is.... i like to see Kill mails in aliance KB with dumb ass's putting T2 rigs in theire Sabre's. One other thing, it was nice to see a ''salvage agent'' ... like R&D. I dont know if it is stupid, but its just a thought. Cumpz :)
evs Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:51:00 - [56] bah if you really want t2 salvage parts go fly around 0.0, most ships that are popped at gates (in small fights) it seems arent salvaged, although only having salvage L3 sucks major balls, it took me more than 70 tries to salvage a inty wreck, i got a metal scrap and an intact armor plate over it i reallly need to train salvage L4
Kell Braugh Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:45:00 - [57] And yet again, you guys have it backwards. Its not that the t1 salvage is useless, its that the rigs that require some of the salvage are practically useless. If you look at the selection of rigs available now, there are about 10, maybe 15 rigs that are "popular", about 20 that are super niche, but still bought from time to time. Then a good 30 or so that no one ever buys in their right mind becuase they are utterly useless and a waste of a rig slot/calibration and the only sales come from people mistaking the item for something else (as MUST be the case for my ability to sell signal disruption amplifier I rigs in jita becuase if you got cap issues running ecm, you got bigger issues than rig selection). Yes, rig sizing will be cool. It will open up viable frig fits that today would costs 60+ mil in rigs alone. I would hope its like most other items and the required materials work in a ratio of: small2 = medium 2 = large, making the small varient of like a CCC rig in the 5 mil isk area. Lastly, the rig and salvage market is player controlled. Yes ccp, decide how much salvage drops, but we decide how much that salvage is worth, and its not based on frequency or gross amount dropped. Look at Alloyed trit bars. They were mad mad expensive becuase everyone wanted polys, yet dropped almost by the half dozen in most 0.0 belts. CCP didn't make allyed trit bars expensive, the player base did but wanting polys soo bad, but focusing over 70% of its ratting and mission running in Caldari space where they didn't drop as much. To the OP, T2 rigs are just fine. Compare any other mod with its variations and you will find the price is in line. Hell people in mission hubs will pay over 1500% more for a shield boost amplifier with like 2% more boost. T2 are 5% better than T1.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:00:00 - [58] sigh For a good while I was getting regular T2 salvage in high sec. The drone region should be swimming it it. Time for a clue by four: Sentient Drones. They all salvage to T2 Salvage. Reason I don't get as much now? Working on a different NPC corp. If I needed some more I'd go back to the T2 salvage source.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 21:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Letrange For a good while I was getting regular T2 salvage in high sec. The drone region should be swimming it it. Time for a clue by four: Sentient Drones. They all salvage to T2 Salvage. Reason I don't get as much now? Working on a different NPC corp. If I needed some more I'd go back to the T2 salvage source. IIRC all "Commander" class NPC spawns give Tech II (or "intact") Salvage materials. I hope that hasn't changed. Funnily enough, I flew past a Amarr Command Ship wreck yesterday and got thirty million ISK for the thirty seconds trouble of my salvaging it. Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. Nothing that I didn't already know by now, but two general sets of questions I've been meaning to ask about it all, 1) The introduction of size variant rigs: any idea how this could affect existing rigs sitting in hangars and how it would be addressed? Is everyone going to get a rude surprise when they login after the patch and find what are quite literally "smaller" rigs instead of something they could have fitted onto a Battleship the day before? That is, assuming concrete ship class restrictions and not scaling effects of rigs v.s. the rig "size". 2) Based on the mechanism you've presented of salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to the intact T2 salvage, is there going to be any mechanism to ultimately hinder the somewhat obvious possibility of identifying the currently high value/high demand T2 salvage with currently low value/abundant T1 salvage counterparts and building supply stores of it for eventual profiteering under the potential system? Or are we going to see something similar to "alchemy", in that it is simply much more expensive or more troublesome to manufacture intact salvage components from the T1 variants?
Valya Dire	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:34:00 - [60] Originally by: CCP Chronotis ...introduce size variant rigs... Veni
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.21 00:41:00 - [61] Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 21/01/2009 00:41:47 Different sized rigs, huh? Make some which only need 1 calibration point, let me pimp out my Reaper just a little bit more
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.21 02:25:00 - [62] I salvaged a golem last night, even had t2 rigs fit.... salvaged for one piece of tech 2 salvage, worth about 80,000isk.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.21 06:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I salvaged a golem last night, even had t2 rigs fit.... salvaged for one piece of tech 2 salvage, worth about 80,000isk. That does suck. It would be nice to see the quantities of salvage component recovered be tied to the size of the wreck.
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.21 07:12:00 - [64] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I salvaged a golem last night, even had t2 rigs fit.... salvaged for one piece of tech 2 salvage, worth about 80,000isk. No worries. After announced changes this t2 salvage should be worth around 20 000 isk. Or less.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:37:00 - [65] Edited by: Joss Sparq on 21/01/2009 08:37:10 Originally by: Deva Blackfire No worries. After announced changes this t2 salvage should be worth around 20 000 isk. Or less. Based on what, other than your idle speculation?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:42:00 - [66] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. Please make T2 salvage 0.0 rat exclusive (besides dropping from t2 wrecks everywhere obviously). High-sec doesn't need a boost.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.21 09:12:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. You and the rest of the world... but please please please don't make this use lab slots or even manufacturing slots... let it be a seperate station service or even a function of a new module taht requires scrapmetal V and advanced junk stacking V or something like that but please no more stuff in labs or manufacturing slots.
Dr Clay	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:10:00 - [68] Salvaging is all kinds of boring, for me at least. Are salvage drones in yet? That might get me doing it.
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:33:00 - [69] Edited by: Shadowsword on 21/01/2009 10:34:26 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: CCP Chronotis There are a few changes in the pipes which help in this regard. Firstly we want to introduce size variant rigs and secondly salvage conversion so some quantity of broken salvage can be converted to intact T2 salvage. Beyond that the spring expansion will have rather a lot of content in it so it would not be unimaginable that other changes will be made there as well but certainly salvage conversion is something we have wanted for a long time. Please make T2 salvage 0.0 rat exclusive (besides dropping from t2 wrecks everywhere obviously). High-sec doesn't need a boost. Bah, most high-sec mission grinders don't salvage anyway. And CCP clearly consider missionning and salvaging as two separate activities (see the whining thread about salvage thieves in GD). It's like arguing that boosting mining would boost high-sec missionning because you can fit 2 miners on your raven and there's asteroids in some missions... Instead, think about what it gives: - one more possibility for profit, in rig components manufacture - cheaper T2 rigs = more used in pvp = more possibilities to hurt and be hurt.
yrknat	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:50:00 - [70] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I salvaged a golem last night, even had t2 rigs fit.... salvaged for one piece of tech 2 salvage, worth about 80,000isk. caldari ships salvage just as badly as guristas ships do. amarr ships on the other hand.. pulled 60m of salvage out of an abso once, killed the same dude the next day for another 40m of salvage.
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.01.21 17:47:00 - [71] Originally by: Joss Sparq Edited by: Joss Sparq on 21/01/2009 08:37:10 Originally by: Deva Blackfire No worries. After announced changes this t2 salvage should be worth around 20 000 isk. Or less. Based on what, other than your idle speculation? Based on stupidity of empire dwellers. "i has it for free" crowd denies ALL logic

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