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Countesss
University of Caille Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote: stuff
You're taking far too much testosterone there buddy, take a chill pill, change your tampon, take a deep breath... it'll be ok.
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Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
131
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Posted - 2012.03.27 23:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
lol
a "trolld" and a "umad?" in a row. two people post without thinking, two people get called on it, two people revert to cheap logical fallacies instead of just admitting they posted without thinking
maybe you'll both think before you post next time
probably not though |

Countesss
University of Caille Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.03.27 23:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:gibberish
Angry man: "The world is crazy!" The world: "jesus, that guy's an idiot...."
There's no point in arguing with you, seeing how quickly you reverted to a brainless aggressive brute. I'm too old for that type of trash, I know when there is no point. Enjoy the rest of your day |

TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
69
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Posted - 2012.04.20 16:54:00 -
[64] - Quote
TornSoul wrote:Hmmm Tc about to go nuclear?
(From post #43)
Would appear to have come through (and ongoing)
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
|
Posted - 2012.04.20 22:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
there are no speculative stockpiles of tech left, it's just common sense. everyone's expected a nerf to be just around the corner for over a year
the reason the price is going through the roof is all stockpiles are gone, they're dead, they are ex-stockpiles: and so suddenly empire is making do with a lower supply than it's had (and tech wars cause interdictions in the supply as towers get reinforced and die, and i use goonswarm's market power to cause shocks that result in permanent price hikes)
as we discovered with p/d the market can sustain crazy moongoo prices, and there's simply nothing holding it back: since there's no stockpiles, you're left with a huge demand and a restricted supply that will keep spiking prices right up until the new supply actually comes in |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2012.04.22 22:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
i accidentally all the tech |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1047
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 23:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:there are no speculative stockpiles of tech left, it's just common sense You forget lazy people with way too much unused ISK. I am pretty sure there's still at least several million units (or several dozens of millions) sitting in random bored people's hangars. Granted, some of those piles might never actually see the market again, and the entire stockpiles that would see the market again might only last for a few weeks (or even less), but who knows. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2012.04.22 23:13:00 -
[68] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:there are no speculative stockpiles of tech left, it's just common sense You forget lazy people with way too much unused ISK. I am pretty sure there's still at least several million units sitting in random bored people's hangars. Granted, they might never actually see the market again, and the entire stockpiles might only last for a few weeks, but who knows. Several million units is nothing at this point. More importantly though, there's no actively traded stockpiles to be dumped into spikes and the like, that would counteract what I can do to the market. If someone's got a million units in a hangar it's because they forgot about it and I can ignore it. |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1047
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 23:43:00 -
[69] - Quote
Yeah, I generally agree, whatever leftover stockpiles exist don't matter much practically in the medium or long term, was mostly just nitpicking ;) http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
180
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 01:34:00 -
[70] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Akita T wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:there are no speculative stockpiles of tech left, it's just common sense You forget lazy people with way too much unused ISK. I am pretty sure there's still at least several million units sitting in random bored people's hangars. Granted, they might never actually see the market again, and the entire stockpiles might only last for a few weeks, but who knows. Several million units is nothing at this point. More importantly though, there's no actively traded stockpiles to be dumped into spikes and the like, that would counteract what I can do to the market. If someone's got a million units in a hangar it's because they forgot about it and I can ignore it.
you really should just ignore akita T's pathological need to be right even if it means resorting to semantics and "nitpicking"
just fyi |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1047
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Posted - 2012.04.23 01:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
corestwo wrote:you really should just ignore akita T's pathological need to be right even if it means resorting to semantics and "nitpicking" just fyi

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
69
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Posted - 2012.04.24 18:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
No one wants to stick out their neck with a brave guess at how it might go?
Akita?
I stuck mine out with the "going nuclear" one - Must be someone else at the bat now  |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
649
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 22:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
TornSoul wrote:No one wants to stick out their neck with a brave guess at how it might go? Akita? I stuck mine out with the "going nuclear" one - Must be someone else at the bat now 
It will hit a weekly trend line soon. If you want I can send you a link to the chart. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1061
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 03:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
TornSoul wrote:No one wants to stick out their neck with a brave guess at how it might go? Akita? Too many variables, and most of them are no longer economic in nature, but rather political.
A fairly large relevant one would be the likelihood of the newly-announced Technetium "cartel" to actually happen in reality, its extent, its effectiveness in keeping their members gruntled and respecting pricing values. The largest relevant variable (when will CCP announce that they are doing something about it at a precise future date) is a complete unknown to me (might still be unknown for everybody else, but maybe not so completely), and the "success" of the variable above might very well influence it.
Assuming CCP does nothing until, say, next year or later, and assuming the OTEC is a near-total adoption success, it would be quite likely for all producible technetium to be safely unloaded at 250k, and not be unreasonable to see it do so even at 300k. The OTEC will be experiencing a rather high initial natural opposition, as most leftover stockpiles on non-participating members that are no longer extracting (but have inventory left) will be the first ones to be sold off (since they won't be respecting imposed price levels), but if they can manage to push though this "stockpile reallocation" period (non-members unloading stockpiles, members ending up with increasing unsold inventory) which might take anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of months, the increased income levels (even in case not all stocks get sold off in a timely manner) for participants will solidify its cohesion and have a low chance of being dethroned by anything other than impending CCP gameplay changes. As the price of technetium remains semi-artificially-high, the backwards pressure from lowering T2 item trade volume will slowly but eventually push the rest of the moon minerals towards devaluation, with everything else lowering to "barely worth it" levels (think neodymium at well under 10k, dyspro at under 5k, prom under 3k, most others under 1k) in a matter of months, slowly trending even lower than that, also bringing the profitability of reaction towers down on average, which will have an effect of lowering fuel block usage, but that effect will be noticeably less pronounced.
Of course, it's fairly uncertain whether the cat-herding necessary for the proper establishment of the OTEC can even be pulled off, and in case it can, it's quite likely that CCP might swoop in with a knee-jerk reaction and change something a bit ahead of schedule. So, again, too many variables (and too many "political" in nature) for anything that can resemble a decent prediction to be possible. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
189
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 04:57:00 -
[75] - Quote
That's a lot of words to say "It will go as high as we can damn well get it to go before CCP finally steps in". |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
651
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
corestwo wrote:That's a lot of words to say "It will go as high as we can damn well get it to go before CCP finally steps in".
I thought I and my T.A. were the only ones criticized for walls of texts 
But yes, if your trading strategy is buy and hold you'll always have the problem of how long to hold.
As Strat's eye opening Dr. Joe says,
Q GÇ£How do you know when to stop buying?GÇ¥
A On the same fax was his handwritten reply, GÇ£When it stops going up.GÇ¥
Q So I wrote on it, GÇ£How do you know when it stops going up?GÇ¥
A His handwritten reply, GÇ£When it starts going down.GÇ¥
Q So I wrote on it, GÇ£How do you know when it stops going up and starts going down?GÇ¥
A His handwritten reply, GÇ£When people start selling.GÇ¥
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Largo Embargo is strong with the goons and friends..
All null mats will be going up up and away.. and then fall like a rock, not as ccp steps in, but as they will most likely be motivated to up prioritize some changes before others..
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
651
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Caleb Ayrania wrote:The Largo Embargo is strong with the goons and friends..
All null mats will be going up up and away.. and then fall like a rock, not as ccp steps in, but as they will most likely be motivated to up prioritize some changes before others..
I don't see it as a bad thing. The moons are there to be taken. If people don't feel pressed enough to go there and fight for them it's because they don't want or don't deserve them enough. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Liberty Eternal
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
58
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I don't see it as a bad thing. The moons are there to be taken. If people don't feel pressed enough to go there and fight for them it's because they don't want or don't deserve them enough.
Come on, you can't seriously expect the remaining 95% of EVE players to take the game as seriously as the goons do? We can't kill that which has no life  |

Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 07:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
The point is, when is game is going to be devaluated because of missing fun, CCP will do something about that. And when CCP's system isn't ready, they will do something stupid to solve the situation fast.
I don't see a reason why should there be a roof for tech ? It's CCP's fault to provide a limited ressource to a raising player amount. For reaction POS owners with a high liquidity it's good news, because their concurrents can't pay the next tech batch for the towers. I believe tech is going up to 300k in the mid term.
Don't complain about Goons. They do what everyone with a little bit capitalistic instinct had done. And yes, the military power of Goons will be superior, because they can afford it and others can't. Economical power translates into military power. And as everyone of you could read on EVENews,. they initiated a program for Tengus. They allready have programs for supercarrier and Titans. Well done Mittani. |
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Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
113
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 09:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
I dont think it's as unreasonable to form a cartel as one might think; sure you have to overcome the "establishment opposition" of non complaint members, but especially for the goons, they dont exactly need the Tech money, its just the icing on the cake. Also, while your average goon couldnt even conceive of something like this, there are certainly some brilliant minds at the head of the goon swarm who are undoubtedly playing the long game.
Cartels have been formed around harder to control things with less profit guarantee, just look at the Alloyed Tritanium Bar cartell of 2009 |

papamike
Precipice Industries
23
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 10:54:00 -
[82] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I don't see it as a bad thing. The moons are there to be taken. If people don't feel pressed enough to go there and fight for them it's because they don't want or don't deserve them enough.
Come on, you can't seriously expect the remaining 95% of EVE players to take the game as seriously as the goons do? We can't kill that which has no life 
I remember 2007-8 Goons saying much the same thing about BoB. We all thought it was impossible back then because of similar reasons why people think Goons are invincible now, right from "they're too big/powerful ingame" to "CCP bankrolls them". Perhaps out of the ashes of that intergalactic space-nerd empire rose an even more demented beast, but I doubt it is invincible.
Remember "If it bleeds, we can kill it" |

Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
247
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 12:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP attempted to fix dyspro and are intending to fix tech because it makes for ****** gameplay IN NULLSEC; it has nothing to do with the overall price of goods or some amorphous "breaking the economy" concern.
As to the "cartel", demand is basically fixed up to an unknown price point, after which it will decline slowly with price as certain ships become replaceable with t1 or t3 variants. I am supremely confident that we haven't yet reached that point. What the cartel does is allow them to search out the general area of that point by collectively testing new price points instead of flooding the market every time the market starts pushing to a new price point. Instead of having to clear the market three times for every 10k pu jump, you can just jump it 10s of ks at a time, somewhat confident that the other suppliers will coordinate with you to wait and see if the new price point sticks.
The result is just a faster rise to an inevitable equilibrium, skipping dozens of lengthy and tedious ups and downs that an undirected market-driven process would take. It is, in essence, speculation at its finest. Also, as someone who has recently ridden the mu8ltiple ups and downs to make 20% on every 10% rise: **** you, assholes. |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1061
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
corestwo wrote:That's a lot of words to say "It will go as high as we can damn well get it to go before CCP finally steps in". You can't have missed the "too complicated" bit in the post though :) It was basically "I can't tell you for sure, but if you INSIST on an answer, here is my best GUESS for now, and what can happen to make that guess end up being wrong" (easily verifiable possible events).
Well, yes, the gist of it might have been that "it will go as high as possible until CCP stops it". However, it contained some hints as to how high that max value might reasonably be so that internal OTEC "friendly" same-price time-of-placement competition would not make it self-destruct in the long run. And a warning that this will probably make CCP act sooner. Also it contained the reasoning behind what else might happen until that time that CCP decides to intervene (what else goes down and why plus a very rough estimate of about how much). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

Go2
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 20:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Akita T wrote:corestwo wrote:That's a lot of words to say "It will go as high as we can damn well get it to go before CCP finally steps in". You can't have missed the "too complicated" bit in the post though :) It was basically "I can't tell you for sure, but if you INSIST on an answer, here is my best GUESS for now, and what can happen to make that guess end up being wrong" (easily verifiable possible events). Well, yes, the gist of it might have been that "it will go as high as possible until CCP stops it". However, it contained some hints as to how high that max value might reasonably be so that internal OTEC "friendly" same-price time-of-placement competition would not make it self-destruct in the long run. And a warning that this will probably make CCP act sooner. Also it contained the reasoning behind what else might happen until that time that CCP decides to intervene (what else goes down and why plus a very rough estimate of about how much).
It sounds like you are saying that you think there is a point where in-game market manipulation will cause CCP to step in. Not just this specific instance, but in general.
Where do you think that line is ?
Assuming that OTEC is as successful as Goons want it to be and OTEC controls 80% of the Tech production in EVE, where do you think the breaking point is for CCP involvement ?
300k ? 400k ? 500k ?
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2945
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 20:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
I understand we've solidly broken the 200k barrier, with buys following.
:happysun: |

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1061
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 21:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
Go2 wrote:It sounds like you are saying that you think there is a point where in-game market manipulation will cause CCP to step in. Not just this specific instance, but in general. Where do you think that line is ? The last time this happened (dysp/prom), they had just barely broken past 200k, they were NOT heavily regionalized, and Dominion included heavy reshuffling of stuff to make them less valuable (in the process setting the stage for this current SNAFU). I'd say CCP is already well past the "we should really do something about it" threshold if the price level is succesfully maintained. The question is only whether they have learned enough from the last time to know better than knee-jerk too much in the opposite extreme, what they might have partially planned to address this already, and how soon they could implement it safely. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T
http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T |

cuoredipietra famedoro
The Cognitive Faction Permanent Transience
3
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Posted - 2012.04.25 21:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
since CCP hinted @ ring mining moon goo during FF, I wouldn't be suprised of seeing technetium price taking a dive at some point in the future.
And, like Akita said, it is likely that CCP is already aware of the problem and working of it.
Not that i don't like seeing cartels arise in New Eden (nice move goonies), but i like cartel's tears more.
Caeci caecos ducentes-á |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 22:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
Asking someone to predict CCP's actions based on the players is like asking someone to predict what God will do. In this context, God actually exists, but that doesn't make predicting Its actions any easier.
The only definitive statement I'd be willing to make is that technetium will drop in price in the future and this drop in price will coincide with, at the very earliest, the announcement of a firm date for the introduction of ring mining. |

cuoredipietra famedoro
The Cognitive Faction Permanent Transience
3
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Posted - 2012.04.25 22:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Asking someone to predict CCP's actions based on the players is like asking someone to predict what God will do. In this context, God actually exists, but that doesn't make predicting Its actions any easier.
The only definitive statement I'd be willing to make is that technetium will drop in price in the future and this drop in price will coincide with, at the very earliest, the announcement of a firm date for the introduction of ring mining.
Absolutely agree on this. The cartel was a nice move anyway. Caeci caecos ducentes-á |
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