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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Waseem
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.13 04:23:00 -
[61]
After seeing some of the responses, I was also some what confused by the IPO/Bond issue. Looking at it a little longer and comparing what I thought to other notes, I am going withdraw my reservation.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.13 05:56:00 -
[62]
I have voted "no" on the expansion, for the reason it's to much, to fast. I don't know if my 25 shares will have much impact, but it sends a clear message that people are concerned regarding a possible expansion effectively trippling the initial investment before the first sheduled dividend payment has been issued.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.13 05:59:00 -
[63]
Edited by: cosmoray on 13/01/2009 05:59:45 The more I look at the original IPO the more I think you are getting a free ride.
You state that for the first 3 months there will be minimum returns due to reinvestment. OK 4% payout, rest reinvested, NAV increases.
After 3 months you ask people to vote on whether they want reinvestment (with continued minimum returns) which further increases NAV or do they want to increase dividends.
You also state if you close the bond/IPO at anytime you have the right to repurchase it all for 105% of purchase price (105% NAV).
So you get all the benefit of reinvestment and DON'T have to share dividends with shareholders AND you have option of buying everyone out at 105% of purchase price.
You will now be running a 60B IPO/Bond (which has tripled in size in 2 weeks), you pay the lowest divs on the market , except BMBE and EBANK, and you get to pocket the REINVESTMENT when you buy everyone out at 105% of purchase price.
IMO this IPO has been very sneaky!!
You are getting a ride beyond your risk profile!
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Ambo
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:02:00 -
[64]
I agree with you on the sneakyness. However, I believe that was due to genuine misunderstanding rather than maliciousness on Atima's part.
Lets be honest, no offence to Atima, but if Kazuo was not securing 80% of NAV then I find it very, very unlikley that this expansion would have gotten much investment at all.
However, with Xabier involved as well (again, no offence to Atima, he's just better known around here), I think it is very likley that much higher returns will be forthcoming after the first 3 months is out the way. Over the term of the business, I believe this combo will make it one of the safest and best ROI investments out there.
That's why I'm still voting yes and will be letting my reservation stand. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:14:00 -
[65]
I will raise the share buy back to 115% to cover the first 3 months low dividends, i placed the 4% in place to allow myself time to purchase all the BPOs required. It is not possible to buy that ammount of capital BPOs and put them into production within one month which would result in a fall in NAV due to dividend payout over the first two months.
Also take into consideration that this IPO is being secured, it is a safer investment and hence lower returns. Your ISK will be transfered tonight Cosmo.
As for you doubting my ability, Kazuo can confirm i am able to do this via my API keys and i beleive he already has several times.
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Miyuki Suzumiya
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:17:00 -
[66]
I will take 10 shares.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:48:00 -
[67]
Originally by: cosmoray Edited by: cosmoray on 13/01/2009 03:58:48
I don't agree. IPO's that payout low initially to reinvest for growth is good if divs are long term, but this IPO has a term limit so I consider it a bond. In this case the OP gets to reinvest at first with a promise of MAYBE paying more later.
Also i have never stated that there is a limit on the length of this offering cosmo, my intentions are to run this for over one year.
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Ricdics
Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:50:00 -
[68]
It is secured against scam, not failure |
Scion Lex
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:53:00 -
[69]
So, it would seem to me, personally, that I am simply betting my investment against the combined reputations of Atima, Xabier and Kazuo. Thats really what it comes down too. Seriously doubt any of these people are trying pull anything on hawk-eyed investors such as yourselves. The respones have been adaquate too me (not that my opinion carries any wieght), and it appears to be miscommunication. Of course, im only in for 10 shares, but I plan to see how this plays out. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:53:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ricdics It is secured against scam, not failure
Ive talked the profits over with xabier and with a CONSERVATIVE estimate i can easily turn 15% returns on this 40bn, the previous 16bn is only doing around 6% and the 4bn about 20%.
The market has been providing these profit margins for 3months+.
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Quinn Morann
State Protectorate Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:09:00 -
[71]
I'd like to reserve 25 shares |
Merhandus Grandus
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:43:00 -
[72]
I would like to reserve 200 shares. |
Estan Drake
Carrion Crows
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:21:00 -
[73]
I would like to reserve 25 shares (250 mil). |
TheScienceMonkey
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Posted - 2009.01.13 10:18:00 -
[74]
Edited by: TheScienceMonkey on 13/01/2009 10:18:26 Put me down for 10 shares (100 Mil isk). Eve mail me when you want the monies transfering.
Thank you |
Mike'P
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Posted - 2009.01.13 10:46:00 -
[75]
I would like to reserve 50 shares in this expansion (500m isk).
I missed a convo from Atima last night, which suggests to me that he was talking to people to get their opinions, as he stated earlier on in this thread. I think the wording in this thread could have been a little different, and pitched it as an expansion vote thread, rather than a 'reservation' thread, as this makes it sound like the expansion is a foregone conclusion.
However, other things check out, so I'm in and voting yes.
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Dagda Morr
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.01.13 10:55:00 -
[76]
I shall be voting yes and stand by my purchase for additional shares - especially now the buy-out has been raised to 15%. This is a better return than having the ISK sit in the bank - it would be nice to have a commitment not to buy back the shares for a fixed period after re-investment stops. That way we know we will be getting some payback for re-investing our dividends. |
SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.13 12:58:00 -
[77]
A buy-back being offered doesn't necessarily equate to it being mandatory.
I would suggest a restatment of the offer price on the buy-back after the low fixed rate re-investment period based on NAV at that time. As well as clarification of whether the 3 month counter is for all shares and the change in return vs reinvestment will be from IPO or the secondary issue date. -----
Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
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Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.01.13 13:32:00 -
[78]
While I'm a little hesitant as to the size of this offering, I like the fact that 80% of it is locked down. Without that, I would have never read past the first 2 posts.
I still think this is in the form of a true IPO in that dividends can fluctuate. I do see Atima's contention that he needs the isk now to buy the BPO's and that production will take a while to begin. I'm all for keeping isk in the corp to keep working capital high. I'm investing with the intention to hold it for at least 6 months, if not longer. As Atima said, there is no end-date and even if he burnt out, this could turn into another case of AATP where someone else steps in to take over.
I don't mind risking a loss of 20% of my investment, it's way better than 100% as has been the case in some recent IPO's. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 15:21:00 -
[79]
Ok, i will clarify a few issues, sorry if they have not been clear.
- Buyback is NOT manditory, it is optional for those investors who need their ISK back.
- The three month period will last untill the end of march for all shares. The reason for the three month period is to allow start up time. All the BPOs purchased will not be at the correct levels for research nor will i be able to buy all these BPOs at a reasonable price within the same few days.
-This is not a BOND. It is an IPO which is paying 4-10% dividends depending upon profits. There is a set up period untill the end of march and untill this time 4% dividends will be paid.
-I have raised the buy back that will be available for your shares to 115% to cover the first few reduced dividends. This buy back will not be an option untill the end of march.
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PIZZA LASER
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Posted - 2009.01.13 17:43:00 -
[80]
I'd like to go for 150 shares ( 1.5bil). Please contact me when you need the money to be transfered. |
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HawkBunny
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:18:00 -
[81]
I would like to buy 2 shares. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:25:00 -
[82]
Updated Reservations. aproximately 48 hours left to vote on the expansion.
Total shares: 4000 Shares Remaining: 772
Murixo 500 shares ( ingame ) Damien Jax 30 shares Kazen 10 shares Prisoner 42 1 share Roarke grasby 50 shares Scion Lex 10 shares Null Lifter 30 shares Kw1jybo 5 shares MyHonIa 100 shares Vync 200 shares Eisstar 20 shares Hillesumos 20 shares Cinta Verick 30 shares Tasko Pal 50 shares Ambo 500 shares Kazuo Ishiguro 100 shares Dawts 2 shares John Hedon 10 shares Elektra Cute 10 shares Alaki Kant 20 shares Jonny Suede 50 shares Javelin6 100 shares aussie vengeance 10 shares alduarne 10 shares Breaker77 10 shares Vor'an 5 shares The Schwa 35 shares J Carreg 10 shares HammerBlow 30 shares Brock Nelson 10 Shares Skade Bax 2 Shares Togen Lei 1 Share Miyuki Suzumiya 10 Shares Quinn Moran 25 Shares Merhandus Grandus 200 shares Estan Drake 25 shares TheScienceMonkey 10 shares Mike'P 50 Shares Pizza Laser 150 shares SonO***host 485 shares (ingame) HawkBunny 2 Shares |
Helmut 314
Amarr Unladen Swallow Research Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:41:00 -
[83]
25 shares plz
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Little Niamh
Domination. G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:50:00 -
[84]
Reserve me 25 please
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John Hedon
Caldari New Dominion
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:53:00 -
[85]
When should I send the money?
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:12:00 -
[86]
Send it to kaz whenever you wish, it is not required to be sent untill the vote has been completed which is in 48 hours.
Please send it within 5 days after the 48hours has been completed. |
Atoshnia Lex
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:19:00 -
[87]
25 shares reserved (250 million) isk will be sent soon. |
CanI HazMineralz
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:21:00 -
[88]
reserve 2 shares for me as well pls (my first investment :D) |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Atima
-This is not a BOND. It is an IPO which is paying 4-10% dividends depending upon profits. There is a set up period untill the end of march and untill this time 4% dividends will be paid.
If after 3 months you changed your business plan and started getting 50% returns, would you still only pay out 4-10%? |
Sen Gyounen
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Posted - 2009.01.13 19:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
If after 3 months you changed your business plan and started getting 50% returns, would you still only pay out 4-10%?
Good question. I had a lot of questions upon first reading the topic. Most of them have been answered throughout the thread. However, one thing that isn't clear, is the original investment going to be treated the same as the new issue, in terms of dividends?
I would personally have voted against expansion, but it sounds like my 20 measly shares won't match up to all the 'yes' votes, so what the heck, I'll go along with it and invest some more.
Please put me down for 20 shares/200M isk.
Sen Gyounen "For all your days, prepare, and meet them ever alike; When you are the anvil, bear - when the hammer, strike." |
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