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Feronia
Gallente
Magma Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:19:00 -
[241]
 Originally by: Atima
I hope this answers the questions as to my incompetence. My maths was not wrong, there were no holes in the business plan and I knew I needed the extra isk to build. The only mistake I made was to rely upon Xabier.
Fair enough, it looks like you got dragged into the mess Xabier created. But I would take part of Cosmoray's advice and downscale the production rather then take external loans (and add additional costs) until things improve.
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Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:24:00 -
[242]
I cannot do that without effecting security sadly :( |
Forceflow
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:34:00 -
[243]
Perhaps you can put it to a vote then.
Send out a mass evemail and allow investors to vote on reducing security. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:22:00 -
[244]
I'm kind of surprised that we weren't informed regarding ricdic and the load talks, I thought we were going to have more input in things like this.
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Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:30:00 -
[245]
Nothing was agreed upon for the loan, the option is there for me to take it. I will let Shareholders know if I take it.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Atima
Originally by: cosmoray
Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size.
Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great.
I would love to do this, liquidating the BPOs that are in copying would be a great boost to the business as the profits from them are negligable in comparison to construction. However this lowers the security of the IPO, and at the end of the day it is my responsibility to stick to the business plan. I cannot lower the secured investment without it being 100% agreed upon by investors, which I see as unlikely as it was the unique selling point of my offering.
I would have no problem with this plan. If other people have no issues, why don't you put it to a vote? I'd rather not see you have Eve turn into a job and lose the fun factor. |
Vync
Caldari
Sex Education
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:15:00 -
[247]
my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:53:00 -
[248]
Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:54
Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:29
Technically, if you take a loan from Ebank, they are entitled to money first in case of failure and your shareholders second, so an Ebank loan should be a shareholder vote, IMO because it's shareholders who are actually taking on debt.
I own no shares though, so totally outside and unsolicited opinion.
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Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:53:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Vync
my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
Why don't you try putting up a sell order.
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Choke Hold
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Posted - 2009.02.06 23:29:00 -
[250]
So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business? |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.06 23:54:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Choke Hold
So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business?
Pure speculation; it's possible that demand for capital ships will pick up slightly as a result of people fighting over suddenly vulnerable former BoB space. |
Vync
Caldari
Sex Education
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Posted - 2009.02.07 00:13:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Dawts
Originally by: Vync
my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
Why don't you try putting up a sell order.
where? Sell Orders forum or stock exchanges? |
Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.07 11:07:00 -
[253]
Originally by: nether void
Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:54
Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:29
Technically, if you take a loan from Ebank, they are entitled to money first in case of failure and your shareholders second, so an Ebank loan should be a shareholder vote, IMO because it's shareholders who are actually taking on debt.
I own no shares though, so totally outside and unsolicited opinion.
In case of failure, NAV is significantly higher than initial investment.
Also the loan is secured against my name, and not the name of share holders, so technically it is me who is taking on the debt. However I will still put it to a vote, although if I do take the loan, it will most certainly be the best course of action. I wont take on additional debt if I have any doubts as to if I can pay it back.
I realise that it is actually a loan that is being taken, however it is not a long term loan that is needed, consider it 'trade credit'. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.07 15:17:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Choke Hold
So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business?
Pure speculation; it's possible that demand for capital ships will pick up slightly as a result of people fighting over suddenly vulnerable former BoB space.
Its a definite at this point.
Obviously I cannot name names, but I've just received a contract request for increased production. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.08 00:00:00 -
[255]
Make a vote and restructure the business.
If you make an EBANK loan they will want it secured against assets. In a business failure shareholders get paid last, and I am sure they will want the loan secured against the company BPO's.
Put a vote up to have Kaz unsecure half the BPO's and HE sells them. Also as part of the vote restructure increase the working capital to produce off the BPO's remaining. Then repay a lot of the capital back to the shareholders in special dividends.
There would be nothing worse then trying to carry on with a plan that doesn't have enough cash to run its operations or the CEO is resistant to change.
Make the change, because if this fails no one will go near you again. |
Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.08 01:56:00 -
[256]
Originally by: cosmoray
Make a vote and restructure the business.
If you make an EBANK loan they will want it secured against assets. In a business failure shareholders get paid last, and I am sure they will want the loan secured against the company BPO's.
Put a vote up to have Kaz unsecure half the BPO's and HE sells them. Also as part of the vote restructure increase the working capital to produce off the BPO's remaining. Then repay a lot of the capital back to the shareholders in special dividends.
There would be nothing worse then trying to carry on with a plan that doesn't have enough cash to run its operations or the CEO is resistant to change.
Make the change, because if this fails no one will go near you again.
You are taking things out of proportion cosmoray, this will not fail. There are no serious issues, I was just letting shareholders know the recent issues.
I am fully able to continue the business at the current rate, I'm just looking to maximise efficiency.
Also I am most certainly not resistant to change, I'm currently looking at options to increase profitability, the best method would be to sell the freighter BPOs and move this over to a component stock. I also have a further 5 carrier BPOs in research which come out this month. With the isk from the freighter BPOs I will be able to run all the carriers in constant production and turn a profit in the region of 8bn monthly.
At the current rate, with the slowed production and copying section, I am still turning around 8% returns monthly, I am just trying to bring this above 10%, which will allow for further reinvestment.
The EBANK loan would be secured against a portion of my capital stock, which would be released as I continue to sell capitals, so effectively nothing is lost from taking the loan, except the 6% monthly payment, and the loan would only stand for several days at a time resulting in a neglegable cost for it. The loan would only be for 7bn isk. Ricdic agreed to 5bn collateral to the loan.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:41:00 -
[257]
Originally by: cosmoray
Shares returned to Atima Holdings
This is the point at which you should have stopped posting.
I don't know what agenda you think you're trying to push here, but repeatedly telling a CEO to completely revamp their business to please a non-shareholder is not constructive.
As one of the largest shareholders I don't want to see any assets sold and the resulting reduction in diversity. Otherwise the majority of your nit-picking and Chicken Little routine seem to stem from a reading comprehension problems on your end. |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.09 13:57:00 -
[258]
Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.09 14:24:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Ricdic
Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take.
Depends on what the debt is used for, in this instance extra prints to increase productivity would be a good debt (depending on amount, actual production capacity, and a whole host of other factors)
I don't think the amount is all that terrible either, and at this point Atima is left with two choices. Deviate slightly from the original plan, take on a little more debt to ensure the original plan works (due to the falling out with Xabier) or take on no more debt and make the current offering slightly more insecure by by selling off secured assets.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Take this advice with a grain of salt though, not an investor just another capital producer. Usually ff your production is at 60%, it's better to raise your production to 100% instead of slashing that extra 40 if the means to do so is there. |
Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:17:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Ricdic
Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take.
This all depends upon the situation. Admittedly, this is the route I would least like to go down however the final decision will be down to share holders, a vote will come up in the next few days outlining the options available to me. I would also like to reiterate that things are being taken way out of proportion.
Kazzac hit the nail on the head, dammed if you do, dammed if you dont. |
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Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.09 22:41:00 -
[261]
What is our alternative to taking out the loan?
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.02.10 02:13:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Dawts
What is our alternative to taking out the loan?
I agree, as a very minimal shareholder I am concerned with the ability to produce the required dividends. So taking out a loan to pay for a "loan" does not make good business sense.
Would the ability to have more production alts in your corp help it? Would the ability to have more trade skills help it(reduced brokers fee, sales tax)?
Hell if needed I'd be willing to provide a character to help with manufacturing (since everything is locked down I couldn't run away with it) Or perhaps outsource some components??
I want to see this succeed, and would be willing to help out if I could.
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Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.10 06:50:00 -
[263]
I've had a chat with Atima, and I'm happy that things are progressing fine. She is also going to make sure that the information required to make an informed decision is avilable when the vote appears with the possible options.
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:05:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ambo
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are.
Honestly what other choice do we have?
I'd like to have enough time to reach a decision before Feb divs are to be paid.
It would also help if we knew more details about how much isk needs to be raised for this loan. Skipping 1 div payment should net around 2.5 billionish which if that is the case I'm sure many people would take that in return the next few divs can have a little extra payout to compensate or something like that. |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:27:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Dawts
Originally by: Ambo
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are.
Honestly what other choice do we have?
I'd like to have enough time to reach a decision before Feb divs are to be paid.
It would also help if we knew more details about how much isk needs to be raised for this loan. Skipping 1 div payment should net around 2.5 billionish which if that is the case I'm sure many people would take that in return the next few divs can have a little extra payout to compensate or something like that.
I'm perfectly amenable to skipping February's dividend if it helps the current cash flow problems. Provided, of course, that as Dawts says subsequent dividends are increased to compensate (i.e. +2% for two months).
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TheScienceMonkey
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:10:00 -
[266]
I'm happy to skip this monthÆs dividends if this would help.
I'm also happy to volunteer a character (cap ship prod 3)for production slots if need be.
Atima has my trust at the moment as none of the negatives I've heard can be attributed to Atima actions (not in my mind anyhow).
Don't burn yourself out, keep it fun, keep us updated as you have been.
Thank you
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Desere
The Collective
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Posted - 2009.02.12 16:02:00 -
[267]
1 see there is 187 shares left i buy em from you.
/regards
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Atima
Minmatar
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:16:00 -
[268]
Ok,the vote is up. I'll give a run down on what will happen for each choice.
Reduce security to 70%
The BPO's that are currently in copying will be unlocked and sold. The isk raised from this will be used for a component stock, allowing me to run production at 100% efficiency.
Take a 7bn loan.
A 7bn loan will be taken from EBANK at 6% monthly. It will be secured on around 5bn worth of carriers. As I sell some of the carriers I will buy back the collateral. This will allow me to run production more efficiently however it will be slowed down as I have to wait for Ricdic to log in so I can buy back the carriers.
Take a 7bn loan and skip a dividend.
The loan will be identical to the one above, however the dividends will be missed until I have paid off the loan in full. This should be around 1 dividend, however it may require me to half the following months dividend.
I personally will be voting in favour of reducing security and would urge investors to also take this option. However I understand this increases the risk of your investment. I would personally prefer not to take on additional debt.
Skipping the dividends would also be a good option, however it means investors potentially may not see dividends until the end of march.
I would also like to add that the under preforming assets should be sold of regardless of any option chosen. However security will be maintained at 80% as I will reinvest the ISK raised into assets that can be locked down. I will put this up to vote after this vote has been completed.
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:26:00 -
[269]
I am fine with selling some BPOs to increase capital. It's a lot better than taking on additional debt.
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Akilum
Turanic Raiders
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:33:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Atima
Reduce security to 70%
Signed.
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