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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:11:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: cosmoray This is why I don't like fast expansions. I like to see if the manager is competent to run the business before they get additional funding.
If you only have 1 carrier BPO, most of your component BPOs will be unused for most of the time, dragging down your ROI. It's certainly a large expansion, but it's been quite carefully planned.
Quote: Moving forward with new IPO's I will also want to see the auditor and the person securing the assets be different people in light of evn7298 & Xabier.
If I told you I only had 1 account, would you believe me?
Yes I would. believe me Kaz I don't have a trust issue with you.
My point is in future IPO's to set a precedant I would want to see the auditor and the holder of collateral as different people.
As the market evolves we evolve in response to our failures. Each time we get better at spotting mis steps and improving security. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:26:00 -
[212]
If you look at it from a completely objective standpoint (Reputations excluded from this) it just seems unsecure to have someone who is securing the assets to also be the one to complete the audit and vouch for the IPO or Bond. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, and I feel confident about this IPO, but it does seem to me like a common sense move would to have someone that isn't holding any assets to complete the audit. |
Shavana
Made in Canada
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Posted - 2009.01.27 17:50:00 -
[213]
I have seen two things I completely agree with so far:
1) Get weekly or at the very least bi-weekly updates from Atima
2) Having a 3rd party (outside source) doing the audits.
Just my two cents
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.27 18:06:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Shavana I have seen two things I completely agree with so far:
1) Get weekly or at the very least bi-weekly updates from Atima
2) Having a 3rd party (outside source) doing the audits.
Just my two cents
Monthly updates are the norm.
if you do more its a bonus, but that may just be for payments. The monthly report should be comprehensive though. |
Vync
Caldari Sex Education
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:08:00 -
[215]
I would be willing to sell my 200 shares at 105% price, if anyone is interested.
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Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.02.04 17:26:00 -
[216]
And how are things going?
Carriers should be in the oven if my math is right.
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Kain Duku
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Posted - 2009.02.04 17:40:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Kain Duku on 04/02/2009 17:40:11 ummm xabier thought that name rung a bell umm how true is this article sounds like a scam after reading this uhh any explanation for this and i would be interested in investing xabier
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Shavana
Made in Canada
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:38:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Kain Duku Edited by: Kain Duku on 04/02/2009 17:40:11 ummm xabier thought that name rung a bell umm how true is this article sounds like a scam after reading this uhh any explanation for this and i would be interested in investing xabier
Woah, talking about old news.. Xabier didn't have any BPO's nor did he have any access to them. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.04 21:06:00 -
[219]
In light of everyone being on edge I think more frequent updates would put everyone at ease a little more.... or it could just be me |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.05 17:52:00 -
[220]
Ok, I'll provide another update sorry if they are irregular and infrequent.
Yes, that is correct the carriers are now in the oven as are the second set of components. However I currently have some cash flow issues and I am unable to buy the minerals for the next run of carriers. I've been discussing this with Ricdic and there is a plan in place for me to take a loan at 6% monthly to cover the build costs.
I also had a delay due to not having enough build slots to start at full production as Xabier was going to provide the additional ones i required ( Just to reiterate; Atima Industries was unaffected by his scam ) This has set back production by around 2 weeks at which point I will have enough slots to continue at 100% efficiency.
The Capital BPOs that are currently in copying are not preforming to well. They are barely reaching the minimum dividend and so will drag down the overall dividend. I am currently looking at ways to improve this however they are in copying for another month and so it will be some time before I can make any changes.
Two further 4% dividends are planned, one at the end of February and the other at the end of March, after which i will be aiming for 10% dividends, however i cannot guarantee that i will hit 10% for the first month, which i suspect will be around the 6-8% mark. |
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Emywn Vanya
Caldari Redemption or Retribution Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.05 18:53:00 -
[221]
All within the risk we agreed to when we bought shares, so...
Keep up the good work! A few setbacks at the beginning makes for a better finish.
----------------------- The answer is 42 |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.02.05 20:12:00 -
[222]
Maybe ex bob will be looking to you for cap replacement :)
Keep hope alive! |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.05 21:54:00 -
[223]
Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment, had a rarther unfortunate series of events. I also lost a rapier while protecting my freighters, lucky it was only a rapier and not 3 full freighters, from now on I will be using a compression service to reduce this risk.
The cash flow issues are mostly down to me expanding to fast but I'm confident i will pull through with the loan i will be taking out, if that does not suffice i will inject some personal isk into the project. Once it is running at 100% efficiency i can see it being an ideal isk print assuming i am able to sell all my products. There is only one thing that hasn't gone wrong yet and thankfully it is the most important, the carrier market. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.06 09:02:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Atima Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment, had a rarther unfortunate series of events. I also lost a rapier while protecting my freighters, lucky it was only a rapier and not 3 full freighters, from now on I will be using a compression service to reduce this risk.
The cash flow issues are mostly down to me expanding to fast but I'm confident i will pull through with the loan i will be taking out, if that does not suffice i will inject some personal isk into the project. Once it is running at 100% efficiency i can see it being an ideal isk print assuming i am able to sell all my products. There is only one thing that hasn't gone wrong yet and thankfully it is the most important, the carrier market.
There you said it. You expanded too fast. You are going to have to put huge amounts of work to give investors back anything other than the minimum return. Burn out is an important factor.
All the issues you are undergoing you could have worked on when your business was only 20B, but with the expansion you took too much IMO. Also not much in the way of reports!
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Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.06 09:31:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Atima Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment
You have no idea how much that wories me...
Please let me know if I can assist in any way. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.02.06 09:37:00 -
[226]
Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
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Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 10:05:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
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Forceflow
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.02.06 11:23:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Dagda Morr Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
Ditto on this. Too much work can lead to loss of interest and the evaporation of the entire project; so a slow down might be in order.
You might want to consider putting it to a vote. |
cpt Mark
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Posted - 2009.02.06 11:58:00 -
[229]
Carriers and freighters are going to go up in price, so your business is going to be less profitable atm.
I might invest, but I want to know, when can you buy-back shares? and how much of the less profits are going to be sustained by you? or the shareholders? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 12:37:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Atima on 06/02/2009 12:42:02
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
Those numbers did not come from Xabier, and those profits still stand at around that value. The reason why i cannot attain those margins is because I don't have the cash flow to keep in constant production. However I am using my personal wallet at the moment as a buffer. The reduction I predicted in payout is not a reduction in profit, I am using the extra profit to pay back the loan.
I'll admit it Cosmoray, I did expand to fast however I do not regret this. I consider this a challenge and as I said previously, one I will live up to.
There is no need to worry Ambo, and there is not much anyone can do to help out. I'm already on the case and in 1 day time i will have over 60 production slots at my disposal and full production will follow. The 'Hope' statement I made was an incredible overstatement, it was said in jest to draw attention to the run of bad luck I've had.
I still believe that this will become one of the best investments out there in the following months. As for retaining the next 1-2 dividends, there really is no need for this at the moment, assuming everything goes to plan from here on. |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.06 13:15:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
Actually depending on Atima's market its still within the realm of possible.
Xabier was actually building caps and delivering, and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself. Work in the capital market for a good length of time and you'll start to recognize the players involved.
If you work your tail, its not hard to net close to 25% in the capital market with the right location, sourcing, and selling yourself on contracts. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.06 13:53:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Dagda Morr Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
I am also in favour of reducing the initial dividends, or skipping them entirely, if it helps bring forward the move to full-scale production. Regarding security, I currently have about 53bn isk worth of BPOs locked down. |
Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 14:14:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
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Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.02.06 14:31:00 -
[234]
Hmmm... I didn't realise that there was a problem until I read your thread.... CyberDyne R-D could always use a New Division... Perhaps you would consider re-location to Amarr space in the name of CyberDyne R-D...lol... but seriously?
We can talk ingame... i sent you a mail.. i think. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.06 14:42:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
Depends on which prints, when I say following the same model, what I meant was that the same timeline more or less in how I built up my capital program and the same expansion style.
I wasn't using public funding though, so I can see where an investor would get shifty.
If the items being built are well, the region being sold well, and sourcing materials is being handled then I would have no worries. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:17:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
The initial plan was for me to build from an excess stock of components Xabier had, and give him the components back once the capitals had sold. The retained profits over the first two months would have been sufficient to fund my own component stock.
Now with Xabier out of the picture I do not have access to a component stock and so I needed to inject 8bn to purchase a component stock.
So this raises the question as to why I didn't just purchase the component stock out of the IPO funds. Well quite simply it would have resulted in a lower security for investors and I feared I would not receive the investment I required.
I hope this answers the questions as to my incompetence. My maths was not wrong, there were no holes in the business plan and I knew I needed the extra isk to build. The only mistake I made was to rely upon Xabier.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:24:00 -
[237]
Hey Atima, I've sent you a message. Probably not worth considering... |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:47:00 -
[238]
Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size. Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:51:00 -
[239]
Originally by: cosmoray Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size. Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great.
I would love to do this, liquidating the BPOs that are in copying would be a great boost to the business as the profits from them are negligable in comparison to construction. However this lowers the security of the IPO, and at the end of the day it is my responsibility to stick to the business plan. I cannot lower the secured investment without it being 100% agreed upon by investors, which I see as unlikely as it was the unique selling point of my offering. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:55:00 -
[240]
I would also like to point out that I am not in any serious trouble here, it will not affect dividends. The purpose of me providing an update on this was to just let investors know how things are going. I'm sure I will pull through this, after all it just boils down to a delay in production which I compensated for by setting the first 3 months at minimum dividends.
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