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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:18:00 -
[1]
IPO Plan
ò Chapter 1 - Summary of Atima Industries ò Chapter 2 - Background on origins/idea/current business ò Chapter 3 - Corporate Governance ò Chapter 4 - The Business Plan (expanding) ò Chapter 5 - Full Disclosure of Risks
Chapter 1 - Summary of Atima Industries
Atima Industries is a business which deals in the sales of capital ship blueprints and the production of capital ship blueprint copies. We currently buy carrier and freighter blueprints for the purpose of reselling and also offer a service to sell on a blueprint owners behalf.
Currently 20bn of public ISK is held by Atima industries and we are requesting a further 40bn ISK for expansion which will be 80% secured by Kazuo.
Chapter 2 - Background on origins/idea/current business
I am currently running this as a solo operation and it has proven to be highly successful. Kazuo Ishiguro is providing 80% security over this offering and will continue to do so by locking down the BPOs which I will be using.
In the past I have ran two successful private IPOÆs one of which was focused around moon mining and reacting, the other which was involved in market manipulation, region wide refining and the dispersion of T2 products.
Atima Industries has been running for one month now with public ISK, dividends have been paid early and it is running as according to my predictions.
Chapter 3 - Corporate Governance
The majority of business decisions will be made by myself after discussion with shareholders if it is required, however decisions for future expansion will be left to a shareholders vote.
Chapter 4 - The Business Plan
The business will be focused around reinvestment for future development with minimum returns being paid for the first 3 months ( March ) after which I will put a vote to shareholders as to if they would like to continue maximum reinvestment or alternatively take higher payouts.
Assets will roughly follow this distribution:
80% BPO's which will be on continuous research, construction and copying
20% Liquid ISK which will be used to continue my reselling opportunities and provide a mineral float from which the capital ships will be built.
The BPO's will allow me to provide consistent minimum returns and provide security for the investors ISK while the other 20% will allow me to pursue much larger returns.
There will be a minimum return of 4% and a maximum return of 10% monthly. After 3 months a buyback will be in operation of 100% the initial price.
If at any time the decision is decided to close then all shares will be bought back at 105%
Expansion plan:
A further 32bn worth of BPOs will be purchased for the purpose of capital ship construction, my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
Also 8bn will be raised and this will be needed for minerals to keep the operation working at 100% efficiency.
Xabier will be joining me with two of his alts to provide more construction slots than I currently have, this will be for approximately 2-3 months while I am skill training my alts for this purpose. He has a lot of experience in this field and IÆm sure I will be able to make great use of this, he has been extremely helpful so far.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:19:00 -
[2]
Chapter 5 - Full Disclosure of Risks
What will happen if the IPO is not as successful as predicted?
As with all IPOÆs there is a risk of failure, however I have done my best to minimize these risks. With 80% invested into capital BPOÆs a significant return can be guaranteed by creating copies and construction.
Also if the very unlikely possibility of the failure arises I will liquidate all the assets and will be able to refund 100% of the investment.
So what if this is a scam?
I am using a reputable third party who will lock down the BPOÆs within his own corp hanger from where I will be able to build from, copy and research them. This covers 80% of the investment. For the other 20% of the investment I will have access to it, but in all honesty it would not be worth my time. Xabier will also have access to this but I highly doubt his reputation will be in question. An audit has been preformed and Kazuo will confirm that I have stuck to the business plan so far and that I am capable of extending it. Kazuo still has all of my API keys and will continue to do so for as long as I hold public ISK. Xabier has also permitted Kazuo to audit his characters if it is required.
It is also worth considering that if I only make my conservative estimate on returns and pay out 10% dividends I am still looking at a 5% return on the 60bn which is 3bn per month, I will have access to a maximum 12bn at any time which is only 4 months of my profit. I have already invested one month of my time into this project and I would not be willing to throw this all away.
What if im hit by a bus?
Im always careful while crossing a road, ensuring to look left and right several times and much prefer to use designated crossing areas, however if anything unfortunate does happen to me the full investment will be accessible by Kazuo who is holding the BPOÆs.
If anyone has any other issues I will be more than happy to update this list.
4000 shares will be available at the price of 10 million each.
The maximum investment will be 5bn for 48 hours after the launch to allow everyone a chance to invest this time, after which I will remove the investment cap for whatever is remaining.
Please do not send your ISK to me, Kazuo will be receiving it for security reasons.
Reservations
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Atima Chapter 3 - Corporate Governance
The majority of business decisions will be made by myself after discussion with shareholders if it is required, however decisions for future expansion will be left to a shareholders vote.
If Xabier and Kazuo are so involved, why are they not being considered as part of operational decision making process. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:21:00 -
[4]
I am, and so is he, I expect, but I think that was probably just a slip of the pen. |
Xabier
Amarr THE SORORITY
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I am, and so is he, I expect, but I think that was probably just a slip of the pen.
Confirming involvement.
Xabier |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Damien Jax on 12/01/2009 19:27:59 Reserve 300mil worth |
Waseem
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:29:00 -
[7]
When are you collecting ISK? When is the official start? Are the 48 hours ticking as of your post timer?
Pending these answers, I reserve five billion. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I am, and so is he, I expect, but I think that was probably just a slip of the pen.
Sorry wasn't trying to be pedantic there. Just figured we'd get the easy worries out the way first. |
Kazen
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:30:00 -
[9]
Ill take 10 shares. |
Prisoner 42
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:34:00 -
[10]
At the momment I can reserve 1 share. If this starts after Jan 20th I can probably reseve 9 more for a total of 10.
Thanx |
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Roarke Grasby
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:35:00 -
[11]
I would like to reserve 50 shares (500m isk). |
Scion Lex
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:36:00 -
[12]
10 shares pls. |
Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:43:00 -
[13]
So uhm, you got me confused. In your previous thread you said any decisions regarding future expansions would be subject to shareholder vote. Today you are implementing a 40bil expansion without a shareholder vote if I'm not mistaken.
How will this expansion affect the dividend of the shares purchased in December? What's the NAV and ROI like?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:49:00 -
[14]
A few comments:
1. I do get a bit squemish when a successful IPO becomes a huge expansion without even making 1 full month of divs. On the plus side you do have good people involved.
Will the expansion have any dilution effects on dividends. i.e. if I chose not to invest?
2. Now you do have a nice business plan, but I have one problem with your operations; You have run this as a business (IPO) which means the rewards to the shareholder are variable. So far you have sent out a mini-statement saying profits are good and forwarded a dividend.
Now you have chosen NOT to make this business transparent. Are you planning on providing a monthly report like most IPO's which detail sales/profit/dividends etc.
To my eye it looks like you made more than 4% profit in your 2 weeks already but you paid out the minimum dividends?
I would like a comment about the report and how you came up with the dividends? If you only intend to pay 4% per month then this is a bond, and should have been advertised as such. Seeing as Ray is at 4.5% you shouldn't have been able to secure financing at 4%, even with auditors.
I am concerned to invest until at least I see the quality of reporting and the final payment of dividends and how they were calculated at the end of the FIRST month.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 19:49:00 -
[15]
Once all shares have been reserved it will be put to a shareholder vote to create the shares, however i have talked to most major investors about this and it seems the vote will go ahead.
This will be increasing the ROI as capital production offers significantly higher returns than my current activities. The 4% returns will continue for 3 months from the initial launch, two months remaining after which returns of up to 10% will be issued. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 19:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: cosmoray A few comments:
1. I do get a bit squemish when a successful IPO becomes a huge expansion without even making 1 full month of divs. On the plus side you do have good people involved.
Will the expansion have any dilution effects on dividends. i.e. if I chose not to invest?
There will be no dilution effect on dividends, if anything you will now see higher dividends as capital production is providing larger returns
2. Now you do have a nice business plan, but I have one problem with your operations; You have run this as a business (IPO) which means the rewards to the shareholder are variable. So far you have sent out a mini-statement saying profits are good and forwarded a dividend.
Now you have chosen NOT to make this business transparent. Are you planning on providing a monthly report like most IPO's which detail sales/profit/dividends etc.
I will continue to provide mini-statements which will be confirmed by Kaz/Xabier. If you have any issues about transparency contact me in game and i am willing to talk it through with you.
To my eye it looks like you made more than 4% profit in your 2 weeks already but you paid out the minimum dividends?
I would like a comment about the report and how you came up with the dividends? If you only intend to pay 4% per month then this is a bond, and should have been advertised as such. Seeing as Ray is at 4.5% you shouldn't have been able to secure financing at 4%, even with auditors.
I am concerned to invest until at least I see the quality of reporting and the final payment of dividends and how they were calculated at the end of the FIRST month.
In the initial offering i stated that the minimum dividend would be paid for 3 months while the profits would be used for reinvestment. After this three month period all profits up to a 10% return on the initial investment will be paid. Anything after this 10% will be used as i see fit.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:00:00 -
[17]
From my maths (state if wrong), you showed a profit of 1.5B on your 4B floating pot. The secured section showed no increase.
1.5/20 x 100 = 7.5% profit (in 2 weeks)
At this progress you should pay max 10% at end of month.
Sorry how and when did you decide only to pay the minimum dividends when you are making more than this?
I checked the IPO document, and don't see it. No management fee, nope nothing?
Are you an IPO or a bond? If your an IPO you share the profits according to IPO document upto max.
You have started your business well, but your asking for 100% expansion and haven't even sent out ONE report.
Business partners comments? Happy about divs? Xabier you happy Atima has 4% bond when you pay 8% with better rep?
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 12/01/2009 20:05:37
Originally by: cosmoray
Sorry how and when did you decide only to pay the minimum dividends when you are making more than this?
I checked the IPO document, and don't see it. No management fee, nope nothing?
I found it cosmo:
Originally by: December IPO Document
Chapter 4 - The Business Plan
The business will be focused around reinvestment for future development with minimum returns being paid for the first 3 months after which I will put a vote to shareholders as to if they would like to continue maximum reinvestment or alternatively take higher payouts.
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null lifter
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:04:00 -
[19]
I will take 20 shares.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Atima There will be a minimum return of 4% and a maximum return of 10% monthly. After 3 months a buyback will be in operation of 100% the initial price.
It doesn't say you will pay 4% for 3 months. It says there is a min and max of 4-10%
See above quote from the original IPO.
The only point about 3 months is that after 3 months you offer a buyback
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:06:00 -
[21]
The business will be focused around reinvestment for future development with minimum returns being paid for the first 3 months after which I will put a vote to shareholders as to if they would like to continue maximum reinvestment or alternatively take higher payouts.
This is taken from chapter 4 of the original business plan, im sorry that you were not aware of this, i hope this clears things up for you.
As for management fee, there is none currently except my time code expenses which come under the costs.
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Kw1jybo
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:09:00 -
[22]
i'll take 5 shares (50m).
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Xabier
Amarr THE SORORITY
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: cosmoray
Business partners comments? Happy about divs? Xabier you happy Atima has 4% bond when you pay 8% with better rep?
My bonds are in process of maturing at the moment and aren't being reissued so doesn't really bother me greatly, personally though I can fully understand why Atima would want to pay out as little as possible whilst staying within the bounds of his original IPO.
As for Ray's bonds your right there however his bonds sold very quickly and are also maturing before too long so its not exactly a fair comparison.
As this is structured as an IPO I think it should only be compared with recent IPO's rather then some of the older bonds, even comparing it to your own IPO isn't a fair comparison as the market was different when you launched yours.
Xabier Dynasty Investments Manager
Xabiers Capital Bond #1/2 (FINISHED) Xabiers Capital Bond #3/4 |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 20:11:00 -
[24]
Ok, fair enough.
But my statement above shows you made it misleading.
I now think you got your investment too cheap. If you decide to close up after 3 months it becomes a very cheap bond.
You really need to make the point that THIS IS NOT an IPO, but a bond with escalating payments nearer the end of the bond life.
I also want to see the vote before you make the reservations. History has shown bad things when they start getting ahead of themselves or straying from template!
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Waseem When are you collecting ISK? When is the official start? Are the 48 hours ticking as of your post timer?
Pending these answers, I reserve five billion.
ISK will be collected after a full reservation has been made, Yes the timer is ticking as of the post time.
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MyHonIa
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:13:00 -
[26]
I'll take 100 shares please
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:16:00 -
[27]
It was not intended to be misleading cosmo, if you are truely unhappy i am willing to buy out all your shares at 105% of their purchase price.
As for it not being an IPO, ricdic pointed out in the first thread that it was somewhat of a mixture between a bond an IPO.
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Vync
Caldari Sex Education
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:30:00 -
[28]
I'll reserve 200 shares
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Eisstar
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:47:00 -
[29]
I`ll take 20 Shares
Iskis send in an Our! Greetings
------------------------------ |
Hillesumos
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.12 20:56:00 -
[30]
20 shares for me pls |
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Cinta Verick
Amarr 4th Dimension Investments
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:09:00 -
[31]
Reserve me 30 shares please (300m) Thanks
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:15:00 -
[32]
50 shares for me please. |
Ambo
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:22:00 -
[33]
500 shares @ 10 mil = 5 bil for me pls. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:44:00 -
[34]
Another 100 for me. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Dawts on 12/01/2009 21:54:46 I'd like to reserve 2 shares.
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John Hedon
Caldari New Dominion
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Posted - 2009.01.12 21:58:00 -
[36]
10 Shares for me please |
Elektra Cute
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:00:00 -
[37]
10 shares for me please. |
Alaki Kant
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:03:00 -
[38]
I'll take 20 shares please |
null lifter
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:12:00 -
[39]
10 more shares for me, please |
Jonny Suede
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:13:00 -
[40]
50 shares for me please |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:54:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 12/01/2009 23:01:46 So far 1248 shares out of 4000 have been reserved in this thread, and a lot more privately. I'll compile a full list later on. 1728 still available for reservations. No payment is required for a few days while the share creation vote is in progress, but people are welcome to do so now if they prefer. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:20:00 -
[42]
I would like to reserve 100 shares. |
Aussie Vengeance
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:31:00 -
[43]
I'd like to reserve 10 shares (100m).
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alduarne
Caldari LFC Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:39:00 -
[44]
10 shares for me please |
Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:45:00 -
[45]
Reserve 10 shares please. |
Vor'an
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:49:00 -
[46]
I would like to reserve 5 shares please. |
The Schwa
Coda Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:52:00 -
[47]
Reserve 35 shares (350m), please. |
Murixo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.12 23:57:00 -
[48]
I confirm my reservation of 500 shares, subject to the timeframe I requested being allowed.
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Ad Adastra
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:00:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ad Adastra on 12/01/2009 23:59:44 withdrawn
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J Carreg
Royal industry and research
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:00:00 -
[50]
Would like to reserve 10 shares please.
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HammerBlow
Caldari The Illustrious Typo Society
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:24:00 -
[51]
Please reserve 30 shares for me, thank you. |
Dagda Morr
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:39:00 -
[52]
Please reserve 5x shares for me - ISK will be sent tomorrow. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:51:00 -
[53]
10 shares for me please. I'd invest more but I'm not impressed with the returns for the first 3 months. |
Skade Bax
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:59:00 -
[54]
Would like to reserve 2 shares. |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.01.13 01:10:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Frenden Dax on 13/01/2009 01:12:20
Originally by: Brock Nelson I'd invest more but I'm not impressed with the returns for the first 3 months.
Ditto. I would be investing more (currently own 100 shares) but 4% a month isn't worth my time. I'll keep the shares I already have in the hope that eventually Atima will up the dividend percentage, but... let's just say I'm disappointed, and if the IPO had been clearer about the the first three month's payouts then I wouldn't have invested at all. |
Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.13 01:58:00 -
[56]
1 share for me please, contact me ingame when the isk is due. Thank you |
Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.13 02:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Frenden Dax and if the IPO had been clearer about the the first three month's payouts then I wouldn't have invested at all.
Well, in Atima's defence, it was mentioned in the initial IPO thread from December. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 02:43:00 -
[58]
Maybe but then it'll be a bond, not IPO would it?
Bond = percentage of profit goes to shareholders IPO = 100% of profit goes to shareholders
10% for Returning Customers |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 03:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Maybe but then it'll be a bond, not IPO would it?
Bond = percentage of profit goes to shareholders IPO = 100% of profit goes to shareholders
Not necessarily. Bonds are a fixed return which can be a percentage of the profits or can even be paid when there's losses (as the payment is always due).
His method is how most IPO's would function anyway. Low dividend return up front so that profits can be reinvested into the corporation in expectation of higher future dividends (as is the case). So, he's reinvesting money and giving us 4% in expectation that we'll get 10% later on.
Take for example an investment of 1billion for 6 months. 3 months at 4% and 3 months at 10%. What's your internal rate of return and NPV? Well using excel, you get a return of about 6.19% and an NPV (assuming a 5% required return) of $9,582,136.58. Of course, the longer you hold it, the better NPV you get in the long run.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.13 03:55:00 -
[60]
Edited by: cosmoray on 13/01/2009 03:58:48
Originally by: Damien Jax
Originally by: Brock Nelson Maybe but then it'll be a bond, not IPO would it?
Bond = percentage of profit goes to shareholders IPO = 100% of profit goes to shareholders
Not necessarily. Bonds are a fixed return which can be a percentage of the profits or can even be paid when there's losses (as the payment is always due).
His method is how most IPO's would function anyway. Low dividend return up front so that profits can be reinvested into the corporation in expectation of higher future dividends (as is the case). So, he's reinvesting money and giving us 4% in expectation that we'll get 10% later on.
Take for example an investment of 1billion for 6 months. 3 months at 4% and 3 months at 10%. What's your internal rate of return and NPV? Well using excel, you get a return of about 6.19% and an NPV (assuming a 5% required return) of $9,582,136.58. Of course, the longer you hold it, the better NPV you get in the long run.
I don't agree. IPO's that payout low initially to reinvest for growth is good if divs are long term, but this IPO has a term limit so I consider it a bond. In this case the OP gets to reinvest at first with a promise of MAYBE paying more later.
Technically OP did nothing wrong but original IPO was confusing. I thought it was an IPO! Maybe I'm an idiot.
A couple of things I don't like how the secondary market is going.
1. People expanding Bonds. Bonds shouldn't be expanded. They should be paid, and a new bond released.
2. People expanding too quickly. Two or three of the recent IPO's, where the player has no real history are running huge expansions before even running their business model.
In Atima's case he hasn't even got to his business plan yet. He is just doing some trading while his BPO's are researched. We don't know that he is a good business man, but he is having a 100% expansion after 2 weeks (irrational exuberance indeed!). If everyone was a stickler for the IPO document, then there should have been a vote first. This approach almost forces people to reserve. The shareholders didn't get a chance to see how the business is run.
Will he be comfortable in the expansion with the increase workload? How do we know? Kazzac has been making an important point about this. Burnout!
I am a bit disappointed in how this is playing out.
As offered I am sending my 30 shares back to Atima for 315M ISK.
Shares returned to Atima Holdings
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Waseem
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.13 04:23:00 -
[61]
After seeing some of the responses, I was also some what confused by the IPO/Bond issue. Looking at it a little longer and comparing what I thought to other notes, I am going withdraw my reservation.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.13 05:56:00 -
[62]
I have voted "no" on the expansion, for the reason it's to much, to fast. I don't know if my 25 shares will have much impact, but it sends a clear message that people are concerned regarding a possible expansion effectively trippling the initial investment before the first sheduled dividend payment has been issued.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.13 05:59:00 -
[63]
Edited by: cosmoray on 13/01/2009 05:59:45 The more I look at the original IPO the more I think you are getting a free ride.
You state that for the first 3 months there will be minimum returns due to reinvestment. OK 4% payout, rest reinvested, NAV increases.
After 3 months you ask people to vote on whether they want reinvestment (with continued minimum returns) which further increases NAV or do they want to increase dividends.
You also state if you close the bond/IPO at anytime you have the right to repurchase it all for 105% of purchase price (105% NAV).
So you get all the benefit of reinvestment and DON'T have to share dividends with shareholders AND you have option of buying everyone out at 105% of purchase price.
You will now be running a 60B IPO/Bond (which has tripled in size in 2 weeks), you pay the lowest divs on the market , except BMBE and EBANK, and you get to pocket the REINVESTMENT when you buy everyone out at 105% of purchase price.
IMO this IPO has been very sneaky!!
You are getting a ride beyond your risk profile!
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Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:02:00 -
[64]
I agree with you on the sneakyness. However, I believe that was due to genuine misunderstanding rather than maliciousness on Atima's part.
Lets be honest, no offence to Atima, but if Kazuo was not securing 80% of NAV then I find it very, very unlikley that this expansion would have gotten much investment at all.
However, with Xabier involved as well (again, no offence to Atima, he's just better known around here), I think it is very likley that much higher returns will be forthcoming after the first 3 months is out the way. Over the term of the business, I believe this combo will make it one of the safest and best ROI investments out there.
That's why I'm still voting yes and will be letting my reservation stand. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:14:00 -
[65]
I will raise the share buy back to 115% to cover the first 3 months low dividends, i placed the 4% in place to allow myself time to purchase all the BPOs required. It is not possible to buy that ammount of capital BPOs and put them into production within one month which would result in a fall in NAV due to dividend payout over the first two months.
Also take into consideration that this IPO is being secured, it is a safer investment and hence lower returns. Your ISK will be transfered tonight Cosmo.
As for you doubting my ability, Kazuo can confirm i am able to do this via my API keys and i beleive he already has several times.
|
Miyuki Suzumiya
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:17:00 -
[66]
I will take 10 shares.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:48:00 -
[67]
Originally by: cosmoray Edited by: cosmoray on 13/01/2009 03:58:48
I don't agree. IPO's that payout low initially to reinvest for growth is good if divs are long term, but this IPO has a term limit so I consider it a bond. In this case the OP gets to reinvest at first with a promise of MAYBE paying more later.
Also i have never stated that there is a limit on the length of this offering cosmo, my intentions are to run this for over one year.
|
Ricdics
Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:50:00 -
[68]
It is secured against scam, not failure |
Scion Lex
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:53:00 -
[69]
So, it would seem to me, personally, that I am simply betting my investment against the combined reputations of Atima, Xabier and Kazuo. Thats really what it comes down too. Seriously doubt any of these people are trying pull anything on hawk-eyed investors such as yourselves. The respones have been adaquate too me (not that my opinion carries any wieght), and it appears to be miscommunication. Of course, im only in for 10 shares, but I plan to see how this plays out. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 07:53:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ricdics It is secured against scam, not failure
Ive talked the profits over with xabier and with a CONSERVATIVE estimate i can easily turn 15% returns on this 40bn, the previous 16bn is only doing around 6% and the 4bn about 20%.
The market has been providing these profit margins for 3months+.
|
|
Quinn Morann
State Protectorate Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 08:09:00 -
[71]
I'd like to reserve 25 shares |
Merhandus Grandus
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 08:43:00 -
[72]
I would like to reserve 200 shares. |
Estan Drake
Carrion Crows
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 09:21:00 -
[73]
I would like to reserve 25 shares (250 mil). |
TheScienceMonkey
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:18:00 -
[74]
Edited by: TheScienceMonkey on 13/01/2009 10:18:26 Put me down for 10 shares (100 Mil isk). Eve mail me when you want the monies transfering.
Thank you |
Mike'P
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:46:00 -
[75]
I would like to reserve 50 shares in this expansion (500m isk).
I missed a convo from Atima last night, which suggests to me that he was talking to people to get their opinions, as he stated earlier on in this thread. I think the wording in this thread could have been a little different, and pitched it as an expansion vote thread, rather than a 'reservation' thread, as this makes it sound like the expansion is a foregone conclusion.
However, other things check out, so I'm in and voting yes.
|
Dagda Morr
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 10:55:00 -
[76]
I shall be voting yes and stand by my purchase for additional shares - especially now the buy-out has been raised to 15%. This is a better return than having the ISK sit in the bank - it would be nice to have a commitment not to buy back the shares for a fixed period after re-investment stops. That way we know we will be getting some payback for re-investing our dividends. |
SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:58:00 -
[77]
A buy-back being offered doesn't necessarily equate to it being mandatory.
I would suggest a restatment of the offer price on the buy-back after the low fixed rate re-investment period based on NAV at that time. As well as clarification of whether the 3 month counter is for all shares and the change in return vs reinvestment will be from IPO or the secondary issue date. -----
Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
|
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 13:32:00 -
[78]
While I'm a little hesitant as to the size of this offering, I like the fact that 80% of it is locked down. Without that, I would have never read past the first 2 posts.
I still think this is in the form of a true IPO in that dividends can fluctuate. I do see Atima's contention that he needs the isk now to buy the BPO's and that production will take a while to begin. I'm all for keeping isk in the corp to keep working capital high. I'm investing with the intention to hold it for at least 6 months, if not longer. As Atima said, there is no end-date and even if he burnt out, this could turn into another case of AATP where someone else steps in to take over.
I don't mind risking a loss of 20% of my investment, it's way better than 100% as has been the case in some recent IPO's. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 15:21:00 -
[79]
Ok, i will clarify a few issues, sorry if they have not been clear.
- Buyback is NOT manditory, it is optional for those investors who need their ISK back.
- The three month period will last untill the end of march for all shares. The reason for the three month period is to allow start up time. All the BPOs purchased will not be at the correct levels for research nor will i be able to buy all these BPOs at a reasonable price within the same few days.
-This is not a BOND. It is an IPO which is paying 4-10% dividends depending upon profits. There is a set up period untill the end of march and untill this time 4% dividends will be paid.
-I have raised the buy back that will be available for your shares to 115% to cover the first few reduced dividends. This buy back will not be an option untill the end of march.
|
PIZZA LASER
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 17:43:00 -
[80]
I'd like to go for 150 shares ( 1.5bil). Please contact me when you need the money to be transfered. |
|
HawkBunny
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 18:18:00 -
[81]
I would like to buy 2 shares. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 18:25:00 -
[82]
Updated Reservations. aproximately 48 hours left to vote on the expansion.
Total shares: 4000 Shares Remaining: 772
Murixo 500 shares ( ingame ) Damien Jax 30 shares Kazen 10 shares Prisoner 42 1 share Roarke grasby 50 shares Scion Lex 10 shares Null Lifter 30 shares Kw1jybo 5 shares MyHonIa 100 shares Vync 200 shares Eisstar 20 shares Hillesumos 20 shares Cinta Verick 30 shares Tasko Pal 50 shares Ambo 500 shares Kazuo Ishiguro 100 shares Dawts 2 shares John Hedon 10 shares Elektra Cute 10 shares Alaki Kant 20 shares Jonny Suede 50 shares Javelin6 100 shares aussie vengeance 10 shares alduarne 10 shares Breaker77 10 shares Vor'an 5 shares The Schwa 35 shares J Carreg 10 shares HammerBlow 30 shares Brock Nelson 10 Shares Skade Bax 2 Shares Togen Lei 1 Share Miyuki Suzumiya 10 Shares Quinn Moran 25 Shares Merhandus Grandus 200 shares Estan Drake 25 shares TheScienceMonkey 10 shares Mike'P 50 Shares Pizza Laser 150 shares SonO***host 485 shares (ingame) HawkBunny 2 Shares |
Helmut 314
Amarr Unladen Swallow Research Institute
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 18:41:00 -
[83]
25 shares plz
|
Little Niamh
Domination. G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 18:50:00 -
[84]
Reserve me 25 please
|
John Hedon
Caldari New Dominion
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 18:53:00 -
[85]
When should I send the money?
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:12:00 -
[86]
Send it to kaz whenever you wish, it is not required to be sent untill the vote has been completed which is in 48 hours.
Please send it within 5 days after the 48hours has been completed. |
Atoshnia Lex
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:19:00 -
[87]
25 shares reserved (250 million) isk will be sent soon. |
CanI HazMineralz
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:21:00 -
[88]
reserve 2 shares for me as well pls (my first investment :D) |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Atima
-This is not a BOND. It is an IPO which is paying 4-10% dividends depending upon profits. There is a set up period untill the end of march and untill this time 4% dividends will be paid.
If after 3 months you changed your business plan and started getting 50% returns, would you still only pay out 4-10%? |
Sen Gyounen
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
If after 3 months you changed your business plan and started getting 50% returns, would you still only pay out 4-10%?
Good question. I had a lot of questions upon first reading the topic. Most of them have been answered throughout the thread. However, one thing that isn't clear, is the original investment going to be treated the same as the new issue, in terms of dividends?
I would personally have voted against expansion, but it sounds like my 20 measly shares won't match up to all the 'yes' votes, so what the heck, I'll go along with it and invest some more.
Please put me down for 20 shares/200M isk.
Sen Gyounen "For all your days, prepare, and meet them ever alike; When you are the anvil, bear - when the hammer, strike." |
|
Namco
Balls of Steel
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:51:00 -
[91]
25 shares/250mil for myself, please. |
Raskaloth
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 20:25:00 -
[92]
I would like to reserve 50 shares, will be sending iskies some time later when I get back home.
-Rask |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 20:50:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
If after 3 months you changed your business plan and started getting 50% returns, would you still only pay out 4-10%?
If that situation ever occurs i would propose changes to the current payout system which would be left to a shareholder vote. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 21:01:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sen Gyounen
Good question. I had a lot of questions upon first reading the topic. Most of them have been answered throughout the thread. However, one thing that isn't clear, is the original investment going to be treated the same as the new issue, in terms of dividends?
Yes, the new shares are going to be treated the same as the original investment. There has only been one change and that is that the buyback has been increased to 115% and this applies to all shares. |
Biohit
Amarr Biohit Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 21:05:00 -
[95]
250 shares please |
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 21:26:00 -
[96]
I'd like to reserve 30 shares/300m for me..
Isk to be sent later tonight when I get home |
nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 21:50:00 -
[97]
The reason this looks like a bond and not an IPO is because in real IPOs dividend payments are a percentage of profits; not a percentage of initial investment (a percentage of initial ivestment is interest - a bond, loan, or interest bearing account).
So if he said he was going to pay out 50% of profits every month, that would work out fine and would have variability built in (as a real IPO). For the first 3 months, obviously dividends will be small or nil due to research and ramp up. Slim or no profits are being made. But the real draw of an IPO is that you're gambling that the next three months afterward might have 50% margins on investment, at which point the dividend rate would be 25% of initial investment (half of the profits). At that point, yeah you're loving the IPO.
In the case we have here, the dividends are not tied to the profits. This is a bond. It can never be an IPO, because dividends are supposed to be generated from profits; not on initial investment like interest. |
Namco
Balls of Steel
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 21:59:00 -
[98]
Actually, I'd like to change mine up from 25 shares to 50 shares, please. |
Chaos Dreams
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:00:00 -
[99]
2 shares/20 million, please
Sending ISK to Kazuo |
Thoraemond
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:01:00 -
[100]
Originally by: nether void The reason this looks like a bond and not an IPO is because in real IPOs dividend payments are a percentage of profits; not a percentage of initial investment (a percentage of initial ivestment is interest - a bond, loan, or interest bearing account).
This is where the IPO/Bond terminology of Market Discussions starts to cause some confusion. Colloquially, you could have an 'initial public offering' (IPO) of either 'equity' (shares, residual ownership and profit participation) or 'debt' (bonds, contractually defined payments of interest and principal).
(In the real world, the term 'initial public offering' is commonly defined in securities regulations and hence has become a term of art associated with equity offerings, but obviously there is no such unary regulator in New Eden to tell an issuer that they are 'doing it wrong' or to officially reject a prospectus, so the term is not so strictly defined.)
Basically, just knowing that an offering is the first public opportunity to participate in an enterprise doesn't tell you whether it's equity or debt that you're buying.
|
|
nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:10:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Thoraemond
Originally by: nether void The reason this looks like a bond and not an IPO is because in real IPOs dividend payments are a percentage of profits; not a percentage of initial investment (a percentage of initial ivestment is interest - a bond, loan, or interest bearing account).
This is where the IPO/Bond terminology of Market Discussions starts to cause some confusion. Colloquially, you could have an 'initial public offering' (IPO) of either 'equity' (shares, residual ownership and profit participation) or 'debt' (bonds, contractually defined payments of interest and principal).
(In the real world, the term 'initial public offering' is commonly defined in securities regulations and hence has become a term of art associated with equity offerings, but obviously there is no such unary regulator in New Eden to tell an issuer that they are 'doing it wrong' or to officially reject a prospectus, so the term is not so strictly defined.)
Basically, just knowing that an offering is the first public opportunity to participate in an enterprise doesn't tell you whether it's equity or debt that you're buying.
Regardless of the terminology used, I would still say that a dividend payment is a percentage of profits and is linked to equity financing, while a percentage returned on initial investment is debt financing. That means this is debt financing regardless of what name you put on top of it.
Still, thanks for that post. I'm still learning. =D --------------------
|
Akilum
Gallente Darkwave Technologies Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:11:00 -
[102]
I would like to reserve 25 shares, 250m ISK. Sending the ISK to Kazuo Ishiguro in aprox. a couple of hours.
|
Odessayeti
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:52:00 -
[103]
Reserve 10 (isk sent) |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 23:06:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Impolite Andevil on 13/01/2009 23:08:54 I would like to reserve 20 shares for 200 mil isk total, isk to be sent within an hour.
Isk has been sent to Kazuo Ishiguro |
Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2009.01.13 23:12:00 -
[105]
I wish to reserve 50 shares for 500mil. Isk to be sent this evening when I get home. |
Dagda Morr
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 00:14:00 -
[106]
50M sent for 5x shares - see page2 of thread for reservation. |
Murixo
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 01:03:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Murixo on 14/01/2009 01:04:47 Edited by: Murixo on 14/01/2009 01:03:51 5 bill sent for my 500 shares, also 300 mill sent for cosmoray's buybacks that I swiped ;)
Edit: The latter was sent directly to Atima, not Kazuo Ishiguro. Edit again: Have already received the shares for the latter. |
John Hedon
Caldari New Dominion
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 01:38:00 -
[108]
I'm going to have to cut my amount down to 5 shares. 50 mil has been sent. |
Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 01:54:00 -
[109]
Just out of interest, what does this expansion give you access to, unsecured? About 9.5b or so? For a newcomer? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:00:00 -
[110]
Yes, i will have access to 8bn isk from this expansion. Never more than this at any given point.
Remember if i was to scam this Kazuo will disclose all of my characters that have been playing for up to 4 years each, the reputation of these characters is worth much more than 8bn to me. Also have it known that my personal assets are in excess of 8bn and i have also invested one month into this project so far which i would not be willing to throw away.
|
|
Gorobei Shimada
Shimada Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:17:00 -
[111]
I am prepared to purchase 100 shares @ ten million ISK per share, for a total price of one billion ISK.
ISK is now being sent to Kazuo Ishiguro.
Please contact me if shares are unavailable.
Thank you for your time.
Gorobei Shimada Shimada Corporation |
Namco
Balls of Steel
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 03:07:00 -
[112]
500M ISK sent to Kazuo Ishiguro for 50 shares. |
alexxr
Gallente Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 03:25:00 -
[113]
if shares are still availble i would like to reserve 10 shares please :D |
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 03:31:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 14/01/2009 03:38:17 20 shares for me, please. 200M sent to Kazuo Ishiguro. |
Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 06:50:00 -
[115]
I would like another share (total 2 shares). I will send the isk to Kazuo as soon as I get home from work. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 07:00:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Trading Bunnz Just out of interest, what does this expansion give you access to, unsecured? About 9.5b or so? For a newcomer?
Originally by: Atima Yes, i will have access to 8bn isk from this expansion. Never more than this at any given point.
Now that was disingenuous. " From this expansion" and " at any given point". The actuality is that you will have access to 12 billion isk. Now, how much of the original 4 billion is still available is unknown to us but side stepping a direct question like that is ... umm... disingenuous at best. |
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 08:42:00 -
[117]
Can you please let us know when the vote completes and the result. I figure it's pretty ponitless sending my isk until it's confirmed that the expansion will actualyl be going ahead. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 09:26:00 -
[118]
The vote ends tomorrow, the 15th, at 20:44 eve time. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:02:00 -
[119]
After allowing for Waseem withdrawing his reservation of 500 shares, and all the other reservations made (both publicly and privately), there are currently 332 shares remaining out of the original 4000. |
Jackie Fisher
Hegemony Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:22:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro ... there are currently 332 shares remaining out of the original 4000.
I'll reserve the remaining 332 shares please.
|
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:26:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 14/01/2009 11:29:32 At this stage, all shares have been reserved, and no-one is queueing to purchase shares in the event that one or more investors withdraw their reservations.
The following reservations have not yet been paid for:
alduarne10 alexxr10 Ambo500 Anonymous investor25 Atherin Gaius50 Aussie Vengeance10 Biohit250 Breaker7710 Brock Nelson10 CanI HazMineralz2 Cinta Verick30 Damien Jax30 Dawts2 Eisstar20 HammerBlow30 Helmut 31425 J Carreg10 Jackie Fisher332 Javelin6100 Jonny Suede50 Kazen10 Kw1jybo5 Little Niamh25 Merhandus Grandus200 Mike'P50 Quinn Morann25 Raskaloth50 Roarke Grasby50 Sen Gyounen20 Shavana30 Skade Bax2 SonOfAGhost485 TheScienceMonkey10 Togen Lei2 Vor'an5 Vync200
Payment has already been received for the following reservations, totalling 13.25bn isk:
Akilum25 Alaki Kant20 Atoshnia Lex25 Chaos Dreams2 Dagda Morr5 Elektra Cute10 Estan Drake25 Gorobei Shimada100 HawkBunny2 Hillesumos20 Impolite Andevil20 John Hedon5 Kazuo Ishiguro100 Krathos Morpheus20 Miyuki Suzumiya10 Murixo500 MyHonIa100 Namco50 null lifter30 Odessayeti10 PIZZA LASER150 Prisoner 421 Scion Lex10 Tasko Pal50 The Schwa35
--- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:41:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Trading Bunnz Just out of interest, what does this expansion give you access to, unsecured? About 9.5b or so? For a newcomer?
Originally by: Atima Yes, i will have access to 8bn isk from this expansion. Never more than this at any given point.
Now that was disingenuous. " From this expansion" and " at any given point". The actuality is that you will have access to 12 billion isk. Now, how much of the original 4 billion is still available is unknown to us but side stepping a direct question like that is ... umm... disingenuous at best.
Very good observation shar, however out of the profits so far a further 4bn of BPOs was purchased and put into research, pulling the investment up to 100% security :)
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Atima Very good observation shar, however out of the profits so far a further 4bn of BPOs was purchased and put into research, pulling the investment up to 100% security :)
That is at this time. However I would think it should be more clearer that you will be entitled to hold 12 billion, or more, at any given time of this project. Ideally isk but it could be in other forms as well. The fact that there isn't 12 billion for you to hold, right now, is beside the point being made.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 11:55:00 -
[124]
Yes, i will be holding 12billion ISK, more than this as profits are made, however 20bn is secured as BPOs in research so the unsecured ammount after this offering will be 8bn. This is double what i had access to after the last offering. I will also be able to ask kaz to unlock up to 4 bn worth of BPOs, so it is possible that i could hold 12bn unsecured, you are right in that respect, so ive tripped myself up somewhat. However i have no intention of doing that.
When i said you were good at noticing holes, i never thaught THAT good :)
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:28:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Atima When i said you were good at noticing holes, i never thaught THAT good :)
My aim is not to trip you up actually. Some of these questions can prove to help define operational policies and practices before needed. Saves from any adhoc fixes that you may have to make. (And you will, oh lord you will!)
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
TheScienceMonkey
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:30:00 -
[126]
Isk will be with you this evening GMT. |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:37:00 -
[127]
I would like to buy/reserve 50 shares to fill the gap of some investors dropping out. Could you please confirm whether this is possible?
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:42:00 -
[128]
Yes, you're on the list in the event that other people cancel reservations. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Jackie Fisher
Hegemony Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:49:00 -
[129]
ISK sent.
|
Ikkawan
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:03:00 -
[130]
Could you put me on the drop-outs list plz. I'd be willing to purchase 5 shares.
Ikka |
|
Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:42:00 -
[131]
Isk sent |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:50:00 -
[132]
I'll send isk as soon as the vote is confirmed.
|
Scion Lex
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 14:05:00 -
[133]
I will like to be put on the list for an additional 15 shares if possible. I will be unable to log on for another 2 days because I am away for work though. If this is ok let me know in forum pls. |
Jonny Suede
Advanced BPO Research Division
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 15:22:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Damien Jax I'll send isk as soon as the vote is confirmed.
Ditto
|
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 16:36:00 -
[135]
I'll send the isk when I get home from work.
|
Kazen
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 17:32:00 -
[136]
ISK Sent. |
Roarke Grasby
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 18:04:00 -
[137]
500m ISK sent to Kazuo Ishiguro for 50 shares.
|
CanI HazMineralz
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 18:16:00 -
[138]
Kazuo , according to my wallets journal i sent 20,000,000.00 isk to your wallet on/at:
2009:01:13 19:23 time.
If you could verify this for me that would be excellent , thanks in advance
|
J Carreg
Royal industry and research
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 18:25:00 -
[139]
isk sent |
HammerBlow
Caldari The Illustrious Typo Society
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 18:52:00 -
[140]
ISKies sent, can you please confirm Thank you
|
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 18:54:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 14/01/2009 18:56:26 From my records, it looks as though people representing more than half of the shares from the first phase have already reserved shares for the expansion, so the vote ought to be a formality as long as they don't forget about it. Almost 20bn isk has now been received.
Originally by: CanI HazMineralz Kazuo , according to my wallets journal i sent 20,000,000.00 isk to your wallet on/at:
2009:01:13 19:23 time.
If you could verify this for me that would be excellent , thanks in advance
Yes, you did. I'll update the list tomorrow. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:17:00 -
[142]
ISK sent. |
Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:45:00 -
[143]
500mil isk sent to cover my 50 shares. |
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:49:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 14/01/2009 18:56:26 From my records, it looks as though people representing more than half of the shares from the first phase have already reserved shares for the expansion, so the vote ought to be a formality as long as they don't forget about it. Almost 20bn isk has now been received.
I'd still rather wait for the vote to complete. My isk is ready to roll once it's done though. |
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:24:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Damien Jax I'll send isk as soon as the vote is confirmed.
Same here, ISK is in my wallet until the vote is finalized then I'll send my amount |
Cinta Verick
Amarr 4th Dimension Investments
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:40:00 -
[146]
ISK sent.
|
Breaker77
|
Posted - 2009.01.14 23:26:00 -
[147]
ISK sent
|
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 00:42:00 -
[148]
ISK has been sent. |
Biohit
Amarr Biohit Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 02:16:00 -
[149]
ISK sent |
Jonny Suede
Advanced BPO Research Division
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 03:44:00 -
[150]
Isk sent
|
|
TheScienceMonkey
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 09:07:00 -
[151]
Isk sent last night |
Mike'P
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 09:23:00 -
[152]
ISK Sent, to get it off my to-do list.
|
Eisstar
Gallente Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 13:36:00 -
[153]
ISK Send
waiting for 20 Shares |
alduarne
Caldari LFC Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 15:33:00 -
[154]
Isk sent |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 16:17:00 -
[155]
All investors except those on the list below have now paid for their reservations. The shares haven't been created yet, so please bear with Atima.
alexxr10 Ambo500 Anonymous investor25 Brock Nelson10 Damien Jax30 Kw1jybo5 Little Niamh25 Quinn Morann25 Raskaloth50 Shavana30 Skade Bax2 SonOfAGhost485 Vor'an5 Vync200
|
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 16:59:00 -
[156]
Has the vote been passed yet? Once I get the OK I will send the ISK for my 30 shares |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 17:11:00 -
[157]
The preliminary vote finishes this evening at 20:44. The share creation vote is separate and will take at least another 24 hours. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Vync
Caldari Sex Education
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 17:21:00 -
[158]
ISK sent |
Little Niamh
Domination. G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 20:30:00 -
[159]
as soon as the vote is sorted ill send my isk, its sitting in my wallet just wating
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 22:08:00 -
[160]
Expansion plan was successful.
97.25% Yes 2.75% No
An early dividend will be paid to existing share holders of 2% before the new shares are made, this is to syncronise the dividend payouts. Next payout will be 14/02.
Once again i would like to thank you all for making this happen. |
|
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 23:36:00 -
[161]
isk sent
|
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 06:57:00 -
[162]
Isk sent |
Arctic Ice
Caldari U-208 Blade.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 11:51:00 -
[163]
are there any shares left?
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 13:29:00 -
[164]
All the shares have been reserved, but a few people have not yet paid for their shares. As an interested buyer, you could consider contacting some of them.
Anonymous investor25 Brock Nelson10 Damien Jax30 Kw1jybo5 Little Niamh25 Raskaloth50 Skade Bax2 SonO***host485 Vor'an5
|
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 13:39:00 -
[165]
I was waiting for the vote to actually succeed, but I suppose I'll go ahead and send the iskies. |
Raskaloth
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 16:00:00 -
[166]
Sorry for the delay, but Iskies sent. |
Mintaka Orion
Caldari Ishukone Subsidiary The Orion Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 16:23:00 -
[167]
Are there any available shares left? Mintaka Orion |
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 17:41:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Mintaka Orion Are there any available shares left?
seriously? |
Little Niamh
Domination. G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 00:39:00 -
[169]
isk sent |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 02:56:00 -
[170]
Isk sent |
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 04:33:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Mintaka Orion Are there any available shares left?
You can have mine, I'm all tapped out now |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 18:27:00 -
[172]
Ok, updated list, mostly for Atima's benefit:
Paid:
Akilum25 Alaki Kant20 alduarne10 Anonymous investor25 Damien Jax30 Atherin Gaius50 Atoshnia Lex25 Aussie Vengeance10 Biohit250 Breaker7710 CanI HazMineralz2 Chaos Dreams2 Cinta Verick30 Dagda Morr5 Little Niamh25 Dawts2 Eisstar20 Elektra Cute10 Estan Drake25 Gorobei Shimada100 HammerBlow30 HawkBunny2 Helmut 31425 Hillesumos20 Impolite Andevil20 J Carreg10 Jackie Fisher332 Javelin6100 John Hedon5 Jonny Suede50 Kazen10 Kazuo Ishiguro100 Krathos Morpheus20 Raskaloth50 Skade Bax2 Merhandus Grandus200 Mike'P50 Miyuki Suzumiya10 Murixo500 MyHonIa100 Namco50 null lifter30 Odessayeti10 PIZZA LASER150 Prisoner 421 SonOfAGhost485 Roarke Grasby50 Scion Lex10 Sen Gyounen20 alexxr10 Ambo500 Quinn Morann25 Tasko Pal50 The Schwa35 TheScienceMonkey10 Togen Lei2 Shavana30 Vync200
Not yet paid:
Mintaka Orion10 Kw1jybo5 Vor'an5
--- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Kw1jybo
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 18:34:00 -
[173]
isk sent
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 18:49:00 -
[174]
All shares paid for have now been distributed. The remaining reservations will stand for another 48 hours, after which they will be sold elsewhere.
|
CanI HazMineralz
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 20:23:00 -
[175]
shares received , good luck in the expansion Atima
|
Tillar
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 02:26:00 -
[176]
Are there any shares left? If so i will take those 15 which might be left. Pls confirm that, so i can send the isk.
- Tillar
PS: Online again after dt. |
Vor'an
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 05:23:00 -
[177]
ISK sent - sorry have been away from game for a couple of days.
All squared up now. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.18 08:56:00 -
[178]
All shares have now been paid for. Anyone who wants some will have to buy them directly from one of the investors (no, you can't have mine ). |
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 18:05:00 -
[179]
Have shares been distributed yet? I haven't logged on for the last few days to check |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 01:38:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Dawts on 20/01/2009 01:42:40 Yes, I received my shares already.
Edit: While I'm thinking about it, if the first 3 months are a 4% payout, wouldn't that mean the 4% divs should last through April since the expansion started today, or does this apply to the Jan div payment from the original IPO/BOND?
|
|
Mintaka Orion
Caldari Ishukone Subsidiary The Orion Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 04:43:00 -
[181]
Isk was sent. Mintaka Orion |
Chaos Dreams
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 19:11:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Atima I am using a reputable third party who will lock down the BPO’s within his own corp hanger from where I will be able to build from, copy and research them. This covers 80% of the investment. For the other 20% of the investment I will have access to it, but in all honesty it would not be worth my time. Xabier will also have access to this but I highly doubt his reputation will be in question. An audit has been preformed and Kazuo will confirm that I have stuck to the business plan so far and that I am capable of extending it. Kazuo still has all of my API keys and will continue to do so for as long as I hold public ISK. Xabier has also permitted Kazuo to audit his characters if it is required.
With the recent rumor and speculation about Xabier, I was curious if those BPO's are still locked down or if they had vanished.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:25:00 -
[183]
No, the BPOs are still secure, although it was a close call. Xabier nearly had access to some of the funds, however nothing belonging to atima industries has been taken.
|
Emywn Vanya
Caldari Redemption or Retribution Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:29:00 -
[184]
Thanks for the quick response. ----------------------- The answer is 42 |
Chaos Dreams
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:43:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Atima No, the BPOs are still secure, although it was a close call. Xabier nearly had access to some of the funds, however nothing belonging to atima industries has been taken.
Good to know, and thanks for the reply.
|
Ambo
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:48:00 -
[186]
Very good news. Thanks for the update. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 20:53:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Frenden Dax on 20/01/2009 20:53:45
Originally by: Ambo Very good news. Thanks for the update.
Indeed. I can shrug off 500m in losses from evn, but writing off twice that here would be painful. Keep up the good work, Atima.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 21:10:00 -
[188]
We're holding firm: 80% of the original capital raised from the IPO is under my direct control. No-one else can take it, and it is not being used for any other purposes than those originally advertised. It is possible that further blueprints will be locked down as time goes on, increasing the secured portion of the IPO. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 22:51:00 -
[189]
I don't understand, Xabier supposedly had full access, but now he almost had full access? I was thinking about asking for an audit from a party that isn't involved, but since everyone already paid up, I say we ride this train to the next station..... (I don't know where that came from) |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 22:53:00 -
[190]
Xabier did not get the access he requested. If your unhappy i will buy back your shares at purchase price, alternatively you can ride it out.
This offer only stands untill this issue is cleared over. |
|
Kw1jybo
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 02:40:00 -
[191]
so how are the shares tracked? I don't see any in my shares wallet. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 08:32:00 -
[192]
Sorry i forgot to update the last 20 shares, my bad, must be working to hard :).
I'll issue them tonight when i get in. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 08:59:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Dawts I don't understand, Xabier supposedly had full access, but now he almost had full access? I was thinking about asking for an audit from a party that isn't involved, but since everyone already paid up, I say we ride this train to the next station..... (I don't know where that came from)
Xabier has extensive knowledge of the IPO, and I understand he helped to hammer out the details, but he has not otherwise been involved. There were plans to allow some of his alts to supply additional build slots, working at Atima's discretion within the unsecured part of the IPO - even then, he wouldn't necessarily have had access to the full unsecured 12bn isk. However, for reasons best known to himself he never even made the necessary corp applications. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 16:43:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Atima Xabier did not get the access he requested. If your unhappy i will buy back your shares at purchase price, alternatively you can ride it out.
This offer only stands untill this issue is cleared over.
I already stated in my first post I was going to stay invested. I'm not a part of any type of cap production and don't know anything about that market, but if Xabier retired shouldn't that mean more work/profit to make up for what he is no longer producing? (if in fact he is going to retire) I'm excited to see how this turns out. |
Prisoner 42
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 16:50:00 -
[195]
I have a little more isk, if anyone backs out let me know.
|
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 17:23:00 -
[196]
So when can we expect an update on events?
|
Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:21:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Prisoner 42 I have a little more isk, if anyone backs out let me know.
Check my signature if you are looking for Atima shares.
Yes, I'm selling some of my shares |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:34:00 -
[198]
Astarte, i offered a buy back at purchase price due to recent events involving Xabier for investors that were looking to sell there shares, leave a reply or contact me in game if you wish to sell them.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 18:55:00 -
[199]
As for an update on events, so far all capital BPOs required for the expansion have been bought up apart from two carrier BPOs.
Currently i am adding the finishing touches to the component BPOs and construction will begin in around 5 days.
It will take 11 days to build the components, after which it will take a further 11 days for the carriers to be completed.
Due to the time required for the BPOs to be bought and construction to be running at 100% efficiency it will be a near profitless month, however retained profits will cover the dividend.
As for phase one investment, some bad news. The Freighter BPC market has crashed to the point where it is only offering 2.5% returns as opposed to the 6% returns for the previous months. I have retained the copies in the hopes that the value will increase and have put the BPOs in the labs for a further 1 months copying. If the market does not improve over this time i will consider liquidating some of the BPOs and moving over to dreadnought production.
Do not worry about the venture becoming unprofitable as the returns on the Carrier market are substantial enough to cover a 10% return for all shares. It has also been significantly more stable than the BPC market in the past.
|
Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 19:14:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Atima Astarte, i offered a buy back at purchase price due to recent events involving Xabier for investors that were looking to sell there shares, leave a reply or contact me in game if you wish to sell them.
At 115%, or did I misread? |
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 20:36:00 -
[201]
No. I am offering to buy back at 100% due to recent events.
115% will be available in around two months time, however only in amounts that i can continue to keep this venture going.
|
Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 08:36:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Atima No. I am offering to buy back at 100% due to recent events.
115% will be available in around two months time, however only in amounts that i can continue to keep this venture going.
Yeah, that's what I thought. This is not a panic sale however, either I sell with a decent profit, or I'll take my chances and wait a little longer. Thanks for the offer though . |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 22:24:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Atima As for an update on events, so far all capital BPOs required for the expansion have been bought up apart from two carrier BPOs.
Currently i am adding the finishing touches to the component BPOs and construction will begin in around 5 days.
It will take 11 days to build the components, after which it will take a further 11 days for the carriers to be completed.
Due to the time required for the BPOs to be bought and construction to be running at 100% efficiency it will be a near profitless month, however retained profits will cover the dividend.
As for phase one investment, some bad news. The Freighter BPC market has crashed to the point where it is only offering 2.5% returns as opposed to the 6% returns for the previous months. I have retained the copies in the hopes that the value will increase and have put the BPOs in the labs for a further 1 months copying. If the market does not improve over this time i will consider liquidating some of the BPOs and moving over to dreadnought production.
Do not worry about the venture becoming unprofitable as the returns on the Carrier market are substantial enough to cover a 10% return for all shares. It has also been significantly more stable than the BPC market in the past.
This is the reason I don't like expansions.
You have 60B in assets.
Within ONE MONTH you have come back to investors to report that one of your main business sectors has crashed. You will basically make no cash there.
So now you are changing business plans, and your going to try dreadnaught production. Are you experienced in that field? Have you researched the market? Do you know your returns? Are they better than you other failed sector?
This is why I don't like fast expansions. I like to see if the manager is compatent to run the business before they get additional funding.
Now you may be an totally honest person and never scam, but your report isn't very encouraging.
Moving forward with new IPO's I will also want to see the auditor and the person securing the assets be different people in light of evn7298 & Xabier.
|
Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 22:30:00 -
[204]
That's the main reason I'm dropping out, I was against the expansion from the start, and with recent events I have decided I would be better of investing my isk in preparation for T3.
Nothing personal, just business ;).
Yes, I'm selling some of my shares |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 23:06:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Atima on 24/01/2009 23:10:12
Originally by: cosmoray
This is the reason I don't like expansions.
You have 60B in assets.
Within ONE MONTH you have come back to investors to report that one of your main business sectors has crashed. You will basically make no cash there.
So now you are changing business plans, and your going to try dreadnaught production. Are you experienced in that field? Have you researched the market? Do you know your returns? Are they better than you other failed sector?
This is why I don't like fast expansions. I like to see if the manager is compatent to run the business before they get additional funding.
Now you may be an totally honest person and never scam, but your report isn't very encouraging.
Moving forward with new IPO's I will also want to see the auditor and the person securing the assets be different people in light of evn7298 & Xabier.
The main business sector has not crashed. I have been UNABLE to resell as the BPOs i would resell are being held for construction.
I do not dictate the BPC market returns, yes i researched it over several months and it was offering 4-7% returns.
As for expansion it offered diversification, which helps counteract effects like this. The business plan has not been changed, if you took the time to read it fully I said I had put them back into copying and would CONSIDER changing it in one month depending upon how the market acts. This is the second time you have failed to fully read what i have posted and claim that i am taking investors for a 'ride'.
My competence does not define how the market acts, it does however define how i react to it.
How does my report make you fear that i am a scammer? Surely a scammer would sugar coat it to make investors happy.
As for multiple auditors i have no issue with this, it will have to be taken up between investors and Kazuo.
Now please cosmo, stop the personal vendetta, there really is no need to imply i am incompetent/scamming simply because the market drops.
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 23:20:00 -
[206]
Edited by: cosmoray on 24/01/2009 23:20:54 Sorry if you thought I implied you were a scammer. This is not the case, I may have worded it wrong.
My entire problem with the IPO is that a person with relatively little reputation expanded to a HUGE IPO within 1 month of launch.
You had no time to show that you could run the business successfully, show that burnout wasn't an issue, deliver promised returns on time, show good reports.
So far you have given mini-trading updates, and basically a profits warning. Nothing else. Why should I have confidence in you now.
You are running the LARGEST newer generation IPO THAT HASN'T SCAMMED at some of the lowest guaranteed rates.
To be put into that position you should have proven yourself first.
BIG RESPONSIBILITY
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 23:34:00 -
[207]
Originally by: cosmoray Edited by: cosmoray on 24/01/2009 23:20:54 Sorry if you thought I implied you were a scammer. This is not the case, I may have worded it wrong.
My entire problem with the IPO is that a person with relatively little reputation expanded to a HUGE IPO within 1 month of launch.
You had no time to show that you could run the business successfully, show that burnout wasn't an issue, deliver promised returns on time, show good reports.
So far you have given mini-trading updates, and basically a profits warning. Nothing else. Why should I have confidence in you now.
You are running the LARGEST newer generation IPO THAT HASN'T SCAMMED at some of the lowest guaranteed rates.
To be put into that position you should have proven yourself first.
BIG RESPONSIBILITY
Yes it is a big responsibility, one that I intend to live up to. To me this is more than I could have ever wanted, I want to prove my self against all odds.
As for my reputation, in the MD forum it may be small, but this is as all reputations start out.
In the past I have ran a successful Lowsec POS project and also a market manipulation project, both funded by private investors. I'm aware that this does not count for much here however I am confident in my own abilities.
Also as for the profits warning, I am not here to sugar coat it for investors, I am trying to be as clear as I can.
And as for the low minimum returns, from a risk/return point of view, the risk is significantly lower due to the significant amount of security. The predicted returns however are higher than many other projects out there.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 10:16:00 -
[208]
Originally by: cosmoray This is why I don't like fast expansions. I like to see if the manager is competent to run the business before they get additional funding.
If you only have 1 carrier BPO, most of your component BPOs will be unused for most of the time, dragging down your ROI. It's certainly a large expansion, but it's been quite carefully planned.
Quote: Moving forward with new IPO's I will also want to see the auditor and the person securing the assets be different people in light of evn7298 & Xabier.
If I told you I only had 1 account, would you believe me? |
Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 10:26:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Atima No. I am offering to buy back at 100% due to recent events.
115% will be available in around two months time, however only in amounts that i can continue to keep this venture going.
Sold my 25 shares at 15mil isk/share. So I got the 10mil div for this month, and 50% profit reselling the shares. Not to shabby I would say . |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 11:24:00 -
[210]
Originally by: cosmoray BIG RESPONSIBILITY
Some people are driven by this, not saying any names |
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 16:11:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: cosmoray This is why I don't like fast expansions. I like to see if the manager is competent to run the business before they get additional funding.
If you only have 1 carrier BPO, most of your component BPOs will be unused for most of the time, dragging down your ROI. It's certainly a large expansion, but it's been quite carefully planned.
Quote: Moving forward with new IPO's I will also want to see the auditor and the person securing the assets be different people in light of evn7298 & Xabier.
If I told you I only had 1 account, would you believe me?
Yes I would. believe me Kaz I don't have a trust issue with you.
My point is in future IPO's to set a precedant I would want to see the auditor and the holder of collateral as different people.
As the market evolves we evolve in response to our failures. Each time we get better at spotting mis steps and improving security. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 20:26:00 -
[212]
If you look at it from a completely objective standpoint (Reputations excluded from this) it just seems unsecure to have someone who is securing the assets to also be the one to complete the audit and vouch for the IPO or Bond. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, and I feel confident about this IPO, but it does seem to me like a common sense move would to have someone that isn't holding any assets to complete the audit. |
Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 17:50:00 -
[213]
I have seen two things I completely agree with so far:
1) Get weekly or at the very least bi-weekly updates from Atima
2) Having a 3rd party (outside source) doing the audits.
Just my two cents
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:06:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Shavana I have seen two things I completely agree with so far:
1) Get weekly or at the very least bi-weekly updates from Atima
2) Having a 3rd party (outside source) doing the audits.
Just my two cents
Monthly updates are the norm.
if you do more its a bonus, but that may just be for payments. The monthly report should be comprehensive though. |
Vync
Caldari Sex Education
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 00:08:00 -
[215]
I would be willing to sell my 200 shares at 105% price, if anyone is interested.
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Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 17:26:00 -
[216]
And how are things going?
Carriers should be in the oven if my math is right.
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Kain Duku
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Posted - 2009.02.04 17:40:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Kain Duku on 04/02/2009 17:40:11 ummm xabier thought that name rung a bell umm how true is this article sounds like a scam after reading this uhh any explanation for this and i would be interested in investing xabier
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Shavana
Made in Canada
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:38:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Kain Duku Edited by: Kain Duku on 04/02/2009 17:40:11 ummm xabier thought that name rung a bell umm how true is this article sounds like a scam after reading this uhh any explanation for this and i would be interested in investing xabier
Woah, talking about old news.. Xabier didn't have any BPO's nor did he have any access to them. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:06:00 -
[219]
In light of everyone being on edge I think more frequent updates would put everyone at ease a little more.... or it could just be me |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 17:52:00 -
[220]
Ok, I'll provide another update sorry if they are irregular and infrequent.
Yes, that is correct the carriers are now in the oven as are the second set of components. However I currently have some cash flow issues and I am unable to buy the minerals for the next run of carriers. I've been discussing this with Ricdic and there is a plan in place for me to take a loan at 6% monthly to cover the build costs.
I also had a delay due to not having enough build slots to start at full production as Xabier was going to provide the additional ones i required ( Just to reiterate; Atima Industries was unaffected by his scam ) This has set back production by around 2 weeks at which point I will have enough slots to continue at 100% efficiency.
The Capital BPOs that are currently in copying are not preforming to well. They are barely reaching the minimum dividend and so will drag down the overall dividend. I am currently looking at ways to improve this however they are in copying for another month and so it will be some time before I can make any changes.
Two further 4% dividends are planned, one at the end of February and the other at the end of March, after which i will be aiming for 10% dividends, however i cannot guarantee that i will hit 10% for the first month, which i suspect will be around the 6-8% mark. |
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Emywn Vanya
Caldari Redemption or Retribution Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 18:53:00 -
[221]
All within the risk we agreed to when we bought shares, so...
Keep up the good work! A few setbacks at the beginning makes for a better finish.
----------------------- The answer is 42 |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 20:12:00 -
[222]
Maybe ex bob will be looking to you for cap replacement :)
Keep hope alive! |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 21:54:00 -
[223]
Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment, had a rarther unfortunate series of events. I also lost a rapier while protecting my freighters, lucky it was only a rapier and not 3 full freighters, from now on I will be using a compression service to reduce this risk.
The cash flow issues are mostly down to me expanding to fast but I'm confident i will pull through with the loan i will be taking out, if that does not suffice i will inject some personal isk into the project. Once it is running at 100% efficiency i can see it being an ideal isk print assuming i am able to sell all my products. There is only one thing that hasn't gone wrong yet and thankfully it is the most important, the carrier market. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 09:02:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Atima Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment, had a rarther unfortunate series of events. I also lost a rapier while protecting my freighters, lucky it was only a rapier and not 3 full freighters, from now on I will be using a compression service to reduce this risk.
The cash flow issues are mostly down to me expanding to fast but I'm confident i will pull through with the loan i will be taking out, if that does not suffice i will inject some personal isk into the project. Once it is running at 100% efficiency i can see it being an ideal isk print assuming i am able to sell all my products. There is only one thing that hasn't gone wrong yet and thankfully it is the most important, the carrier market.
There you said it. You expanded too fast. You are going to have to put huge amounts of work to give investors back anything other than the minimum return. Burn out is an important factor.
All the issues you are undergoing you could have worked on when your business was only 20B, but with the expansion you took too much IMO. Also not much in the way of reports!
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Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 09:31:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Atima Hope is what I'm relying on at the moment
You have no idea how much that wories me...
Please let me know if I can assist in any way. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 09:37:00 -
[226]
Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
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Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 10:05:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
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Forceflow
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.02.06 11:23:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Dagda Morr Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
Ditto on this. Too much work can lead to loss of interest and the evaporation of the entire project; so a slow down might be in order.
You might want to consider putting it to a vote. |
cpt Mark
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 11:58:00 -
[229]
Carriers and freighters are going to go up in price, so your business is going to be less profitable atm.
I might invest, but I want to know, when can you buy-back shares? and how much of the less profits are going to be sustained by you? or the shareholders? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 12:37:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Atima on 06/02/2009 12:42:02
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
Those numbers did not come from Xabier, and those profits still stand at around that value. The reason why i cannot attain those margins is because I don't have the cash flow to keep in constant production. However I am using my personal wallet at the moment as a buffer. The reduction I predicted in payout is not a reduction in profit, I am using the extra profit to pay back the loan.
I'll admit it Cosmoray, I did expand to fast however I do not regret this. I consider this a challenge and as I said previously, one I will live up to.
There is no need to worry Ambo, and there is not much anyone can do to help out. I'm already on the case and in 1 day time i will have over 60 production slots at my disposal and full production will follow. The 'Hope' statement I made was an incredible overstatement, it was said in jest to draw attention to the run of bad luck I've had.
I still believe that this will become one of the best investments out there in the following months. As for retaining the next 1-2 dividends, there really is no need for this at the moment, assuming everything goes to plan from here on. |
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Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 13:15:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Atima ... my maths show I can pull a 15-25% return on this investment, 15% being a conservative figure.
I guess those numbers came from Xabier too. I'm glad you're revising your profit margin downward to a more realistic number.
Actually depending on Atima's market its still within the realm of possible.
Xabier was actually building caps and delivering, and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself. Work in the capital market for a good length of time and you'll start to recognize the players involved.
If you work your tail, its not hard to net close to 25% in the capital market with the right location, sourcing, and selling yourself on contracts. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 13:53:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Dagda Morr Rather than acculumlate additional debt, why not slow down on the rate of expansion. This is an IPO we bought into, not a bond - I'm personally in it for the longer-term and would prefer you build a solid foundation now and return a smaller dividend rather than burn out.
I believe you intended to re-invest some of the initial profits - provided the original 80% assets are locked down and an auditor can confirm the dividend is indeed being re-invested I would be happy to skip a payout or two.
I am also in favour of reducing the initial dividends, or skipping them entirely, if it helps bring forward the move to full-scale production. Regarding security, I currently have about 53bn isk worth of BPOs locked down. |
Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:14:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
|
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:31:00 -
[234]
Hmmm... I didn't realise that there was a problem until I read your thread.... CyberDyne R-D could always use a New Division... Perhaps you would consider re-location to Amarr space in the name of CyberDyne R-D...lol... but seriously?
We can talk ingame... i sent you a mail.. i think. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 14:42:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
Depends on which prints, when I say following the same model, what I meant was that the same timeline more or less in how I built up my capital program and the same expansion style.
I wasn't using public funding though, so I can see where an investor would get shifty.
If the items being built are well, the region being sold well, and sourcing materials is being handled then I would have no worries. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:17:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Feronia
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria ...and Atima is following pretty closely to the same business model I handle personally myself.
I hope not, if you spend most of the investor's money on extra capital BPO's and have not figured out you also need extra money to buy the build materials needed, your maths are wrong and your business plan has plenty of holes.
The fact you need to invest personal money, and even take an extra loan to keep the business running should make people worry to say the least.
The initial plan was for me to build from an excess stock of components Xabier had, and give him the components back once the capitals had sold. The retained profits over the first two months would have been sufficient to fund my own component stock.
Now with Xabier out of the picture I do not have access to a component stock and so I needed to inject 8bn to purchase a component stock.
So this raises the question as to why I didn't just purchase the component stock out of the IPO funds. Well quite simply it would have resulted in a lower security for investors and I feared I would not receive the investment I required.
I hope this answers the questions as to my incompetence. My maths was not wrong, there were no holes in the business plan and I knew I needed the extra isk to build. The only mistake I made was to rely upon Xabier.
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:24:00 -
[237]
Hey Atima, I've sent you a message. Probably not worth considering... |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:47:00 -
[238]
Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size. Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:51:00 -
[239]
Originally by: cosmoray Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size. Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great.
I would love to do this, liquidating the BPOs that are in copying would be a great boost to the business as the profits from them are negligable in comparison to construction. However this lowers the security of the IPO, and at the end of the day it is my responsibility to stick to the business plan. I cannot lower the secured investment without it being 100% agreed upon by investors, which I see as unlikely as it was the unique selling point of my offering. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 15:55:00 -
[240]
I would also like to point out that I am not in any serious trouble here, it will not affect dividends. The purpose of me providing an update on this was to just let investors know how things are going. I'm sure I will pull through this, after all it just boils down to a delay in production which I compensated for by setting the first 3 months at minimum dividends.
|
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Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:19:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Atima I hope this answers the questions as to my incompetence. My maths was not wrong, there were no holes in the business plan and I knew I needed the extra isk to build. The only mistake I made was to rely upon Xabier.
Fair enough, it looks like you got dragged into the mess Xabier created. But I would take part of Cosmoray's advice and downscale the production rather then take external loans (and add additional costs) until things improve.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:24:00 -
[242]
I cannot do that without effecting security sadly :( |
Forceflow
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:34:00 -
[243]
Perhaps you can put it to a vote then.
Send out a mass evemail and allow investors to vote on reducing security. |
Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 17:22:00 -
[244]
I'm kind of surprised that we weren't informed regarding ricdic and the load talks, I thought we were going to have more input in things like this.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 17:30:00 -
[245]
Nothing was agreed upon for the loan, the option is there for me to take it. I will let Shareholders know if I take it.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 17:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Atima
Originally by: cosmoray Serious piece of advice.
Why don't you liquidate some of the locked down assets. Set up the business to a more reasonable size. Secondly send a vote out to invrease the free capital side of the business so you can put into perma production what assets you would have left.
Any production business is only really good if you are producing 24/7, or you are not leveraging your BPO's.
I would honestly make some changes before your workload gets to great.
I would love to do this, liquidating the BPOs that are in copying would be a great boost to the business as the profits from them are negligable in comparison to construction. However this lowers the security of the IPO, and at the end of the day it is my responsibility to stick to the business plan. I cannot lower the secured investment without it being 100% agreed upon by investors, which I see as unlikely as it was the unique selling point of my offering.
I would have no problem with this plan. If other people have no issues, why don't you put it to a vote? I'd rather not see you have Eve turn into a job and lose the fun factor. |
Vync
Caldari Sex Education
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 20:15:00 -
[247]
my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
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nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 20:53:00 -
[248]
Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:54 Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:29 Technically, if you take a loan from Ebank, they are entitled to money first in case of failure and your shareholders second, so an Ebank loan should be a shareholder vote, IMO because it's shareholders who are actually taking on debt.
I own no shares though, so totally outside and unsolicited opinion. --------------------
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Dawts
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 20:53:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Vync my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
Why don't you try putting up a sell order.
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Choke Hold
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 23:29:00 -
[250]
So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business? |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 23:54:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Choke Hold So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business?
Pure speculation; it's possible that demand for capital ships will pick up slightly as a result of people fighting over suddenly vulnerable former BoB space. |
Vync
Caldari Sex Education
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 00:13:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Dawts
Originally by: Vync my offer is still valid. anyone interested in purchasing 2b worth of shares at 105% price should contact me.
Why don't you try putting up a sell order.
where? Sell Orders forum or stock exchanges? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 11:07:00 -
[253]
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:54 Edited by: nether void on 06/02/2009 20:53:29 Technically, if you take a loan from Ebank, they are entitled to money first in case of failure and your shareholders second, so an Ebank loan should be a shareholder vote, IMO because it's shareholders who are actually taking on debt.
I own no shares though, so totally outside and unsolicited opinion.
In case of failure, NAV is significantly higher than initial investment.
Also the loan is secured against my name, and not the name of share holders, so technically it is me who is taking on the debt. However I will still put it to a vote, although if I do take the loan, it will most certainly be the best course of action. I wont take on additional debt if I have any doubts as to if I can pay it back.
I realise that it is actually a loan that is being taken, however it is not a long term loan that is needed, consider it 'trade credit'. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:17:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Choke Hold So how will the disbanding of BoB benifit your business?
Pure speculation; it's possible that demand for capital ships will pick up slightly as a result of people fighting over suddenly vulnerable former BoB space.
Its a definite at this point.
Obviously I cannot name names, but I've just received a contract request for increased production. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 00:00:00 -
[255]
Make a vote and restructure the business.
If you make an EBANK loan they will want it secured against assets. In a business failure shareholders get paid last, and I am sure they will want the loan secured against the company BPO's.
Put a vote up to have Kaz unsecure half the BPO's and HE sells them. Also as part of the vote restructure increase the working capital to produce off the BPO's remaining. Then repay a lot of the capital back to the shareholders in special dividends.
There would be nothing worse then trying to carry on with a plan that doesn't have enough cash to run its operations or the CEO is resistant to change.
Make the change, because if this fails no one will go near you again. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:56:00 -
[256]
Originally by: cosmoray Make a vote and restructure the business.
If you make an EBANK loan they will want it secured against assets. In a business failure shareholders get paid last, and I am sure they will want the loan secured against the company BPO's.
Put a vote up to have Kaz unsecure half the BPO's and HE sells them. Also as part of the vote restructure increase the working capital to produce off the BPO's remaining. Then repay a lot of the capital back to the shareholders in special dividends.
There would be nothing worse then trying to carry on with a plan that doesn't have enough cash to run its operations or the CEO is resistant to change.
Make the change, because if this fails no one will go near you again.
You are taking things out of proportion cosmoray, this will not fail. There are no serious issues, I was just letting shareholders know the recent issues.
I am fully able to continue the business at the current rate, I'm just looking to maximise efficiency.
Also I am most certainly not resistant to change, I'm currently looking at options to increase profitability, the best method would be to sell the freighter BPOs and move this over to a component stock. I also have a further 5 carrier BPOs in research which come out this month. With the isk from the freighter BPOs I will be able to run all the carriers in constant production and turn a profit in the region of 8bn monthly.
At the current rate, with the slowed production and copying section, I am still turning around 8% returns monthly, I am just trying to bring this above 10%, which will allow for further reinvestment.
The EBANK loan would be secured against a portion of my capital stock, which would be released as I continue to sell capitals, so effectively nothing is lost from taking the loan, except the 6% monthly payment, and the loan would only stand for several days at a time resulting in a neglegable cost for it. The loan would only be for 7bn isk. Ricdic agreed to 5bn collateral to the loan.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 11:41:00 -
[257]
Originally by: cosmoray Shares returned to Atima Holdings
This is the point at which you should have stopped posting. I don't know what agenda you think you're trying to push here, but repeatedly telling a CEO to completely revamp their business to please a non-shareholder is not constructive.
As one of the largest shareholders I don't want to see any assets sold and the resulting reduction in diversity. Otherwise the majority of your nit-picking and Chicken Little routine seem to stem from a reading comprehension problems on your end. |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:57:00 -
[258]
Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:24:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Ricdic Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take.
Depends on what the debt is used for, in this instance extra prints to increase productivity would be a good debt (depending on amount, actual production capacity, and a whole host of other factors)
I don't think the amount is all that terrible either, and at this point Atima is left with two choices. Deviate slightly from the original plan, take on a little more debt to ensure the original plan works (due to the falling out with Xabier) or take on no more debt and make the current offering slightly more insecure by by selling off secured assets.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Take this advice with a grain of salt though, not an investor just another capital producer. Usually ff your production is at 60%, it's better to raise your production to 100% instead of slashing that extra 40 if the means to do so is there. |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:17:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Ricdic Securing debt in order to get out of debt is a terrible strategy and I hope not one you attempt to take.
This all depends upon the situation. Admittedly, this is the route I would least like to go down however the final decision will be down to share holders, a vote will come up in the next few days outlining the options available to me. I would also like to reiterate that things are being taken way out of proportion.
Kazzac hit the nail on the head, dammed if you do, dammed if you dont. |
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Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:41:00 -
[261]
What is our alternative to taking out the loan?
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Breaker77
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 02:13:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Dawts What is our alternative to taking out the loan?
I agree, as a very minimal shareholder I am concerned with the ability to produce the required dividends. So taking out a loan to pay for a "loan" does not make good business sense.
Would the ability to have more production alts in your corp help it? Would the ability to have more trade skills help it(reduced brokers fee, sales tax)?
Hell if needed I'd be willing to provide a character to help with manufacturing (since everything is locked down I couldn't run away with it) Or perhaps outsource some components??
I want to see this succeed, and would be willing to help out if I could.
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Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 06:50:00 -
[263]
I've had a chat with Atima, and I'm happy that things are progressing fine. She is also going to make sure that the information required to make an informed decision is avilable when the vote appears with the possible options.
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 19:05:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ambo
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are.
Honestly what other choice do we have? I'd like to have enough time to reach a decision before Feb divs are to be paid. It would also help if we knew more details about how much isk needs to be raised for this loan. Skipping 1 div payment should net around 2.5 billionish which if that is the case I'm sure many people would take that in return the next few divs can have a little extra payout to compensate or something like that. |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
|
Posted - 2009.02.10 19:27:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Dawts
Originally by: Ambo
For now, I recommend just waiting and seeing what exactly the options are.
Honestly what other choice do we have? I'd like to have enough time to reach a decision before Feb divs are to be paid. It would also help if we knew more details about how much isk needs to be raised for this loan. Skipping 1 div payment should net around 2.5 billionish which if that is the case I'm sure many people would take that in return the next few divs can have a little extra payout to compensate or something like that.
I'm perfectly amenable to skipping February's dividend if it helps the current cash flow problems. Provided, of course, that as Dawts says subsequent dividends are increased to compensate (i.e. +2% for two months).
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TheScienceMonkey
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:10:00 -
[266]
I'm happy to skip this monthÆs dividends if this would help. I'm also happy to volunteer a character (cap ship prod 3)for production slots if need be.
Atima has my trust at the moment as none of the negatives I've heard can be attributed to Atima actions (not in my mind anyhow).
Don't burn yourself out, keep it fun, keep us updated as you have been.
Thank you
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Desere
The Collective
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 16:02:00 -
[267]
1 see there is 187 shares left i buy em from you.
/regards
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:16:00 -
[268]
Ok,the vote is up. I'll give a run down on what will happen for each choice.
Reduce security to 70%
The BPO's that are currently in copying will be unlocked and sold. The isk raised from this will be used for a component stock, allowing me to run production at 100% efficiency.
Take a 7bn loan.
A 7bn loan will be taken from EBANK at 6% monthly. It will be secured on around 5bn worth of carriers. As I sell some of the carriers I will buy back the collateral. This will allow me to run production more efficiently however it will be slowed down as I have to wait for Ricdic to log in so I can buy back the carriers.
Take a 7bn loan and skip a dividend.
The loan will be identical to the one above, however the dividends will be missed until I have paid off the loan in full. This should be around 1 dividend, however it may require me to half the following months dividend.
I personally will be voting in favour of reducing security and would urge investors to also take this option. However I understand this increases the risk of your investment. I would personally prefer not to take on additional debt.
Skipping the dividends would also be a good option, however it means investors potentially may not see dividends until the end of march.
I would also like to add that the under preforming assets should be sold of regardless of any option chosen. However security will be maintained at 80% as I will reinvest the ISK raised into assets that can be locked down. I will put this up to vote after this vote has been completed.
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:26:00 -
[269]
I am fine with selling some BPOs to increase capital. It's a lot better than taking on additional debt.
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Akilum
Turanic Raiders
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:33:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Atima Reduce security to 70%
Signed.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:41:00 -
[271]
What % is currently secured? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:49:00 -
[272]
Currently the minimum security I can have is 80%. At the moment it is slightly higher than this, Kaz has the correct figures but I would estimate at around 85%.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.14 18:16:00 -
[273]
Currently 88% of the original 60bn of capital is secured in the form of locked-down BPOs. Selling off all the freighter BPOs would leave 68.3% secured. The exact secured figure is somewhat open to interpretation - in many cases, given time, the BPOs could probably be sold for more than Atima paid for them. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.02.15 15:19:00 -
[274]
I will be voting to reduce the security down to 68%.
In my opinion, the business plan is sound and the market overall looks good given current events. Given the expected dividend I'm happy that the risk/reward ratio is satisfactory for me - 68% security is better than some I have invested in.
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Mintaka Orion
Caldari Ishukone Subsidiary The Orion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:55:00 -
[275]
For what it's worth, risk is what make the game interesting. My vote would be to sell the bpo's and reduce the security.
Mintaka Orion |
Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.16 21:31:00 -
[276]
Do you think that there will be any issues with Feb divs being paid on time? Maybe if we could get an update once the BPOs are sold to give us an idea where we stand isk wise that would be nice :)
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Jason Marshall
Gallente Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.02.16 22:05:00 -
[277]
If there are any shares left, id like to buy 10. Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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SageHumbolt
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:13:00 -
[278]
I'll take 10 shares as well if there are any left.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:37:00 -
[279]
All shares for this IPO and the expansion were sold out months ago - the only way to purchase any is to contact the shareholders (who are listed earlier in this thread). And they'll probably want a big markup over what they paid, if they're even prepared to sell. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Kushion
Anti Sweden Defense Force Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:48:00 -
[280]
I would like to buy some shares if there are any left!
(yes, I read your post, Kaz. I couldn't resist :< )
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TheScienceMonkey
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:07:00 -
[281]
My votes with reducing security.
My trust is still in Atima. Selling off poorly performing BPO's makes sense too.
If you have time it'd be interesting to know what bpo's you currently have.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.19 08:41:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Atima Ok,the vote is up. I'll give a run down on what will happen for each choice.
Reduce security to 70%
Vote to reduce security as Atima describes.
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Prisoner 42
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Posted - 2009.02.19 16:02:00 -
[283]
I will defer My vote to Atima. I believe the ceo has the best view of the buisness plan and I at the moment still have confidence in that.
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Murixo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.02.19 17:31:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Prisoner 42 I will defer My vote to Atima. I believe the ceo has the best view of the buisness plan and I at the moment still have confidence in that.
You still have to physically register your vote through your shares in-game. |
Prisoner 42
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Posted - 2009.02.19 17:52:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Murixo
Originally by: Prisoner 42 I will defer My vote to Atima. I believe the ceo has the best view of the buisness plan and I at the moment still have confidence in that.
You still have to physically register your vote through your shares in-game.
Thanks I did not know that I will vote tonight. |
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
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Posted - 2009.02.21 02:59:00 -
[286]
My vote it is give it all to Loney and let him manage it... :) or Whatever Atima thinks is best! ..
Check us out Now!
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.21 09:30:00 -
[287]
The vote closed on the 18th. I'm not sure what proportion of shares actually voted, but of those that did, approximately 80% were in favour of reducing security. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.23 20:25:00 -
[288]
When are divs supposed to be paid?
For some reason in my mind it was the 20th of each month... I'm not sure where I got that date from though lol.
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hamstermk2
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Posted - 2009.02.23 20:42:00 -
[289]
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Shaktar
V Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.23 23:21:00 -
[290]
wtb 20 shares
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Dawts
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:43:00 -
[291]
No one knows?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:01:00 -
[292]
what was the result of the vote or is it still pending?
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:04:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Dawts When are divs supposed to be paid?
For some reason in my mind it was the 20th of each month... I'm not sure where I got that date from though lol.
This question begins to prey on my mind as well. We're running out of days in February.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:42:00 -
[294]
60B under management, major restructuring yet the last time Atima spoke to shareholders was nearly 2 weeks ago on the 14th, and people are talking about late divs.
The communication has been really poor on this IPO.
Largest non-heritage or old player IPO in the secondary market. Now I remember why you shouldn't throw 60B at a newbie!
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Namco
Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.02.26 03:05:00 -
[295]
Atima was hanging out in scc-lounge (chat room) yesterday, I was meaning to ask something for my own interest in this, but got distracted by other crap. :(
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.26 04:02:00 -
[296]
Originally by: cosmoray 60B under management, major restructuring yet the last time Atima spoke to shareholders was nearly 2 weeks ago on the 14th, and people are talking about late divs.
The communication has been really poor on this IPO.
Largest non-heritage or old player IPO in the secondary market. Now I remember why you shouldn't throw 60B at a newbie!
At what point would you consider acceptable age to throw 60b at?
Blueprint Store |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.26 04:10:00 -
[297]
Not age, reputation.
He had the rep to pull off 20B because he secured 16B, so it was only a 4B offering. The 40B expansion inside the first month, before the first divs was too far too fast. Unfortunately this has turned out to be true.
To build reputation you have to be successful in running a public business, with on time divs and excellent communication. Atima has done nothing to improve his/her reputation, the reporting is non-existant, the plan is in trouble and the divs aren't paid on time. Three strikes I'm afraid.
However this business turns out, I chalk this one up to a bad investor experience. Maybe I get flamed for being negative or having a go at Atima, but this is poor.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.26 04:10:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
At what point would you consider acceptable age to throw 60b at?
Its thread jacking but really there is no set time, its all up to how investors respond more or less.
Personally speaking, unless you have a proven track of success I won't throw anything at anyone asking more than 10b |
No Profit
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Posted - 2009.02.26 07:01:00 -
[299]
Originally by: cosmoray Not age, reputation.
He had the rep to pull off 20B because he secured 16B, so it was only a 4B offering. The 40B expansion inside the first month, before the first divs was too far too fast. Unfortunately this has turned out to be true.
To build reputation you have to be successful in running a public business, with on time divs and excellent communication. Atima has done nothing to improve his/her reputation, the reporting is non-existant, the plan is in trouble and the divs aren't paid on time. Three strikes I'm afraid.
However this business turns out, I chalk this one up to a bad investor experience. Maybe I get flamed for being negative or having a go at Atima, but this is poor.
I think you're being premature.
Atima has always said that the first few months of divs would be at the minimum 4%.
How about we see what happens after that period before we start saying whether it's failed or not.
Fact is, Atima has been clear about the returns we can expect (after some initial confusion over the first few minimum payments) and has been honest with the problems bought about by the rapid expansion. He/She has also been diligent in taking the time to look at the possible solutions and communicating those to investors both on an individual and group level.
I agree that there have been problems but I think it's a little early to write this one off as a bad investment.
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Forceflow
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.02.26 07:32:00 -
[300]
Originally by: No Profit I think you're being premature.
Atima has always said that the first few months of divs would be at the minimum 4%.
How about we see what happens after that period before we start saying whether it's failed or not.
Fact is, Atima has been clear about the returns we can expect (after some initial confusion over the first few minimum payments) and has been honest with the problems bought about by the rapid expansion. He/She has also been diligent in taking the time to look at the possible solutions and communicating those to investors both on an individual and group level.
I agree that there have been problems but I think it's a little early to write this one off as a bad investment.
I think you're missing Cosmoray's point. Hes not talking about the low 4% divs. Hes more concerned about the lack of divs.
I personally would like to see more updates from Atima. The late divs I can put aside as RL concerns but Atima should have at least informed us of such a development if it were the case. Especially after the deadline on voting to reduce the security has passed and we have had no word on how it is progressing.
I do hope Atima will keep us more in the loop with what is happening and the business be brought back on a more stable footing.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.26 07:51:00 -
[301]
Hit me up if you want to sell me Atima shares at 50% of value |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:15:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Forceflow I personally would like to see more updates from Atima. The late divs I can put aside as RL concerns but Atima should have at least informed us of such a development if it were the case. Especially after the deadline on voting to reduce the security has passed and we have had no word on how it is progressing.
This. I can deal with late divs, as long as I know that eventually, whenever, they will arrive. The fact that late divs and no updates occur immediately after a reduction in security is... disconcerting.
While I feel that Cosmoray is being (maybe) too aggressive too soon, I agree with his point way back at the start of this thread, when he sold his shares back. The initial shareholders *raises hand* bought into a 20b enterprise with only 4b unsecured. That ballooned to a 60b enterprise with 12b unsecured (and now more than 12b, perhaps 15-20b? I am unclear.) Essentially a complete unknown now has way, way more money than anyone would ordinarily feel safe investing in them. I'm disturbed that things have proceeded as they have.
This is indeed at the moment, as Cosmoray said, a bad investor experience. Hopefully Atima becomes more PR oriented (Bad Bobby is an excellent example of how this should work) but at this point in time I'd settle for regular dividends and monthly reports.
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Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:30:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Ricdic Hit me up if you want to sell me Atima shares at 50% of value
I would also be interested in purchasing a few more shares (although my wallet isn't as large as some peoples)
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flakeys
Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name
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Posted - 2009.02.26 09:54:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Frenden Dax
Originally by: Forceflow I personally would like to see more updates from Atima. The late divs I can put aside as RL concerns but Atima should have at least informed us of such a development if it were the case. Especially after the deadline on voting to reduce the security has passed and we have had no word on how it is progressing.
This. I can deal with late divs, as long as I know that eventually, whenever, they will arrive. The fact that late divs and no updates occur immediately after a reduction in security is... disconcerting.
While I feel that Cosmoray is being (maybe) too aggressive too soon, I agree with his point way back at the start of this thread, when he sold his shares back. The initial shareholders *raises hand* bought into a 20b enterprise with only 4b unsecured. That ballooned to a 60b enterprise with 12b unsecured (and now more than 12b, perhaps 15-20b? I am unclear.) Essentially a complete unknown now has way, way more money than anyone would ordinarily feel safe investing in them. I'm disturbed that things have proceeded as they have.
This is indeed at the moment, as Cosmoray said, a bad investor experience. Hopefully Atima becomes more PR oriented (Bad Bobby is an excellent example of how this should work) but at this point in time I'd settle for regular dividends and monthly reports.
The risk was known yet no one except for shar if i am correct mentioned it in here.For me it was the reason not to take the risk but i was surprised no one mentioned the unsecured part untill -again i think- Shar mentioned it and still no one retracted or had large concerns after that post.Don't feel like browsing the whole thread so going off of what i remember reading at the time.
Not saying that the money will vanish but IF it would there will only be one person who at least looked further and mentioned the fact that there was now a large sum unsecured.I however highly doubt that when atima still hangs in SCC channel he has the intention to run off.It might be returns are a little lower and he is trying to make the best before handing out dividens OR because of the delay it got at the start and redoing the basics.
Just be patient before pointing any fingers or starting 'a panic' in here.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.26 10:21:00 -
[305]
There have been some delays in getting the freighter BPOs unlocked - I've been the victim of a bug that nullified my votes. Assuming the 2nd attempt goes through, they'll be out tomorrow morning. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
No Profit
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 12:29:00 -
[306]
Ah, tbh I hadn't actually realised that divs were late.
Kaz, any chance of poking Atima to give us an update on what is going on?
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:08:00 -
[307]
The dividends are due and always have been on the last day of the month. Last months dividends were paid early so i could get going with the expansion.
I fail to see how I have provided a bad experience for my investors Cosmoray. I have always been upfront about any issues i have had and dealt with them accordingly.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:12:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Atima The dividends are due and always have been on the last day of the month. Last months dividends were paid early so i could get going with the expansion.
I fail to see how I have provided a bad experience for my investors Cosmoray. I have always been upfront about any issues i have had and dealt with them accordingly.
A lot of us are edgy here lately Atima, you'll have to forgive us |
eVaLF
Delivery Luck
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 13:12:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Atima The dividends are due and always have been on the last day of the month. Last months dividends were paid early so i could get going with the expansion.
I fail to see how I have provided a bad experience for my investors Cosmoray. I have always been upfront about any issues i have had and dealt with them accordingly.
Ignore him, play fight with him, or just insult his name multiple times, seems to work for me.
Keep up the best you can and if you are feeling burnt out slow down. I think investors would rather less dividends and a better investment in the long run than a burnt out IPO that ends up scamming or losing everything. -----
POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 13:14:00 -
[310]
As the only one who believed in Atima you guys should sell me all your shares at 50% of value immediately. |
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:18:00 -
[311]
The thing is I am working hard, paying dividends on time and providing a commentary on the procedure of the business. Yet people are complaining I am not working hard enough. Please feel free to expand upon which areas I have made this a bad investment? I will do my best to fulfill the investors request.
However please take into consideration that I do not take a managment fee from this investment yet still dedicate most of my eve time to it. I do this because I enjoy doing it and I don't believe I am doing a bad job at all.
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eVaLF
Delivery Luck
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:22:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Atima The thing is I am working hard, paying dividends on time and providing a commentary on the procedure of the business. Yet people are complaining I am not working hard enough. Please feel free to expand upon which areas I have made this a bad investment? I will do my best to fulfill the investors request.
However please take into consideration that I do not take a managment fee from this investment yet still dedicate most of my eve time to it. I do this because I enjoy doing it and I don't believe I am doing a bad job at all.
Dont worry about critism, that means your doing somthing right, I find that the IPO's/Bonds that we dont' talk about are normally the ones I worry about.
And for Cos(what ever the end to his name is) has always had somthing up his but about 50% or what ever his new ratio is currently. He means well, and fully understand why, but goes to the EXTREMES. -----
POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:25:00 -
[313]
Kazzac I understand why investors are edgy, and I agree I would personally be worried investing in a person such as my self. It is true I have access to a large amount of unsecured isk.
However if I was scamming Kazuo could detect it weeks ahead as I would have to stop production, this would take two weeks. I'm fairly sure Kazuo would notice if I had stopped production for two weeks and the wallet had been emptied. I would appreciate it if he would confirm that I infact have all the unsecured funds currently locked into continuous production.
I have no intention of scamming and would value my reputation much higher than 15bn. Infact I have 6bn of my own isk currently within the corperation that I receive no dividends for, Kazuo can also confirm this.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:26:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Atima The thing is I am working hard, paying dividends on time and providing a commentary on the procedure of the business. Yet people are complaining I am not working hard enough. Please feel free to expand upon which areas I have made this a bad investment? I will do my best to fulfill the investors request.
However please take into consideration that I do not take a managment fee from this investment yet still dedicate most of my eve time to it. I do this because I enjoy doing it and I don't believe I am doing a bad job at all.
When your done running this program Atima, how about we talk and fix that problem |
eVaLF
Delivery Luck
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Posted - 2009.02.26 13:49:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Atima Kazzac I understand why investors are edgy, and I agree I would personally be worried investing in a person such as my self. It is true I have access to a large amount of unsecured isk.
However if I was scamming Kazuo could detect it weeks ahead as I would have to stop production, this would take two weeks. I'm fairly sure Kazuo would notice if I had stopped production for two weeks and the wallet had been emptied. I would appreciate it if he would confirm that I infact have all the unsecured funds currently locked into continuous production.
I have no intention of scamming and would value my reputation much higher than 15bn. Infact I have 6bn of my own isk currently within the corperation that I receive no dividends for, Kazuo can also confirm this.
Atima if you would like, I can look at your current plan and what your doing and probably show you a few ways to make things better and easier. Not saying your not doing it the best way, I have no clue honestly, but never hurts to have a 2nd and 3rd set of eyes. -----
POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 13:55:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Atima
I have no intention of scamming and would value my reputation much higher than 15bn. Infact I have 6bn of my own isk currently within the corperation that I receive no dividends for, Kazuo can also confirm this.
I know this, was just just pointing out perspective.
And the offer stands when your ready, you got a lotta potential here to make a decent mint for yourself.
So lets talk when your done |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.26 14:37:00 -
[317]
I'm happy to disclose to everyone right now what I am doing, I'll go over it here in the forum.
I currently own
6 Freighter BPOs Orca BPO 16 carrier BPOs 17 component BPOs 1 medium POS, currently just anchored. no mods. These are the fixed assets.
Also in my possession: 2 carriers 12 carriers in production components in production to build 12 carriers 3 carrier BPC's 10 freighter BPC's small amount of spare minerals and components aprox. 800mill worth 2.2bn in corp wallet
Corp has a debt to me of 6bn isk.
The freighter BPOs and orca BPOs were in the labs creating copies, returning around 4-5% each month after the fees for the labs. Currently in station waiting to be unlocked.
4 of the carrier BPOs were in research. They've just came out of the labs and will be moved to production location once I organise for them to be unlocked and I provide collateral to cover them.
12 carrier BPOs and 17 component BPOs are in production.
I am going to sell the 6 freighter BPOs and buy the additional component BPOs required to build from all 16 carrier BPOs. Also i will use the isk from the freighter BPOs to pay off the corps debt to myself which I am using for the component stock.
How I run the business:
I buy the minerals via buy order on Jita market throughout the week.
I contract the empire hauling of minerals to a third party who moves them one jump from my lowsec system for a minimal fee.
I then haul these minerals in using my personal freighters and a huginn.
Potential improvements here : Mineral compression. less hauling less risk. Why don't I do this? I picked a station owned by a corperation who doesn't have any agents so I would have to pay a 5% reprocessing tax. I will relocate in the future to another station in the system and begin construction there. Why not now? Because all the BPOs will need to be unlocked, this will cause a huge delay in production and lower the profit. Right now I am more concerned with providing better returns for investors.
Capital ships and components are made in this station. I then proceed to sell them on public contracts.
What I would like to do is purchase the BPOs for capital modules and fighters. Build these modules and sell them on market along with other relevent fittings and rigs and so provide a hub for capital ships. This isn't a viable option due to limitations of isk available to me. I will do this at some point in the future with retained profits.
The BPC side of the business was simple. copy BPO in a lab for a fee from kazuo, sell on public contracts. Fairly low returns, not enough to keep investors happy so I am liquidating this side.
At this point your all probably wondering so what are my profits? well to be honest the market fluxuates alot and I cannot offer a precise figure. I'll Answer to the best of my ability however.
Profit per 28 days:
Construction of 12 carriers: 4,751,627,200.44
Using yesturdays prices for mineral sell orders in jita and contract sell orders for carriers.
BPC copying: Around 600mill after costs. This fluxuates extremely. Hence my stock of capital BPC's. I simply hold onto them until it is the right time to sell.
Research on the carrier BPOs: I estimate they are gaining around 5% value per month in research, so around 250mill per month.
This is pretty much my profits for the past month and a half, carrier profits were much larger last month, around 5.3bn due to the fall in mineral prices. The small rise we saw recently may not have seemed much but it significantly impacts profits for capital production.
As you can see my current profit is approximately around 5.5bn per month. This is just short of 10% per month. Once I liquidate the copying side of atima industries the profits will increase.
I encourage you all to pick apart my current practices, I have tried to be as clear as possible and I would invite a respected third party to do an external NAV report if they wish to do so. I will disclose the exact research and BPOs to them.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 15:42:00 -
[318]
*expansion*
My main point Atima is that you have a huge amount of capital tierd up in your business, but no one really knows how you run a business before you expanded to 60B. So now your in a business which is a lot of work (burn out is a serious risk for investors) and things are starting to slip. I think your reporting has been poor, no detailed report at end of month (cash flow,sales, profits, whatever) so no one really knows how the business is doing. By not giving sales data the shareholders are not seeing what is going on with their money, they don't know if you are just paying cash from unsecured pile. If you are not making any sales but just paying the minimum you can say that too.
Communication. Communication. Communication. The more you tell the shareholders the more they put their trust in you. When their is no communication they start to theorize and bash you.
You run a major vote to restructure a 60B business and after the vote has finished you still don't come back and talk to investors. No communication for 12 days. I would have given an update, if you were having difficulty in unlocking BPO's say so here. That extra bit of communication buys a lot of grace with shareholders when they know what is going on.
Management fee. Personally I would have taken one. Your doing lots of hardwork (probably too much) and you only get divs. I wouldn't run a 60B IPO, haven't got the time or patience. I still believe you should reduce the size of the IPO to a manageable form for yourself.
The best IPO managers run the IPO, make div payments on schedule and provide excellent reports. Look at AATP, Bad Bobby, AC, Cosmoray (maybe everyone's opinion?) and even EvaLf (he gives blog updates every few days) for good reporting.
I honestly don't want you to end up in the position of other IPO's where the CEO doesn't talk to the shareholders and they are held hostage to the CEO because they can't sell their shares or get out.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:58:00 -
[319]
Originally by: cosmoray *expansion*
My main point Atima is that you have a huge amount of capital tierd up in your business, but no one really knows how you run a business before you expanded to 60B. So now your in a business which is a lot of work (burn out is a serious risk for investors) and things are starting to slip. I think your reporting has been poor, no detailed report at end of month (cash flow,sales, profits, whatever) so no one really knows how the business is doing. By not giving sales data the shareholders are not seeing what is going on with their money, they don't know if you are just paying cash from unsecured pile. If you are not making any sales but just paying the minimum you can say that too.
Communication. Communication. Communication. The more you tell the shareholders the more they put their trust in you. When their is no communication they start to theorize and bash you.
You run a major vote to restructure a 60B business and after the vote has finished you still don't come back and talk to investors. No communication for 12 days. I would have given an update, if you were having difficulty in unlocking BPO's say so here. That extra bit of communication buys a lot of grace with shareholders when they know what is going on.
Management fee. Personally I would have taken one. Your doing lots of hardwork (probably too much) and you only get divs. I wouldn't run a 60B IPO, haven't got the time or patience. I still believe you should reduce the size of the IPO to a manageable form for yourself.
The best IPO managers run the IPO, make div payments on schedule and provide excellent reports. Look at AATP, Bad Bobby, AC, Cosmoray (maybe everyone's opinion?) and even EvaLf (he gives blog updates every few days) for good reporting.
I honestly don't want you to end up in the position of other IPO's where the CEO doesn't talk to the shareholders and they are held hostage to the CEO because they can't sell their shares or get out.
So now your in a business which is a lot of work (burn out is a serious risk for investors) and things are starting to slip.
Less work than trading, things are NOT starting to slip at all.
I think your reporting has been poor, no detailed report at end of month (cash flow,sales, profits, whatever) so no one really knows how the business is doing.
I agree that I have not posted any statistics, mostly because I buy and sell via a mixture of my corperation wallet and personal wallet. I'm not 100% sure how to do the maths apart from working it out on paper, I have thousands of transactions each month. I could use EMMA, which I purchased a key for myself. However I also have transactions in Atima's wallet which I use to trade for my own personal gain, these would cause EMMA to calculate incorrect profits. Also I am not a director in Kazuo's corp and so cannot access API data of the wallet.
I try to communicate to the best of my ability, I went through the options available to share holders to the best of my ability.
I was unaware Kazuo was having difficulties unlocking the BPOs as we play eve generally at different times to each other. I left him an evemail but recieved no reply. I suspected he was just taking a small break.
I most certainly don't hold my investors hostage, I can provide buy backs right now. I recieve 3-4 evemails each week from people requesting shares from me and report to the best of my ability.
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Aussie Vengeance
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:13:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Atima I buy and sell via a mixture of my corperation wallet and personal wallet.
Mate, just a word of suggestion - you may want to keep the corporation and personal buckets separate, as you're opening yourself up to a few questions, if nothing else. As you note it makes it difficult for you to give reports on numbers; I would expect that you have rock solid control on the numbers, as otherwise there is a real risk that you are performing actions that aren't optimally profitable. Can I recommend a non-financially involved alt for all your personal trades?
Originally by: Atima Corp has a debt to me of 6bn isk.
A question on the 6bn debt from the corp to you - that is in effect a 0% interest loan, but there was no discussions/agreement/votes to do this afaik. Is this just to cover operational expenses until the additional liquidity released comes through? If not, can any future loans of this nature be made public before they occur, rather than when calls come for additional information?
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Chaos Dreams
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:51:00 -
[321]
Originally by: cosmoray *expansion*
My main point Atima is that you have a huge amount of capital tierd up in your business, but no one really knows how you run a business before you expanded to 60B.
If they didn't find out how the business is run before they invested I think the fault lies more with the investors. If they wanted to know more details they should have tried to find them out before they invested.
Originally by: cosmoray Communication. Communication. Communication. The more you tell the shareholders the more they put their trust in you. When their is no communication they start to theorize and bash you.
This doesn't seem to be true. You're the only one bashing, and you're not even an investor anymore. Personally I'm happy with the level of communication. All questions and concerns have been addressed. Perhaps not instantly, but always within a couple of days.
I don't really need or want daily reports. If I want total control over my ISK, and want to know where it is and what it's doing all the time, I'd have just kept it and managed it myself. I invest it so that other people can mind it, and I'd really rather them spend their time making it grow than typing up reports for my benefit.
Originally by: cosmoray I honestly don't want you to end up in the position of other IPO's where the CEO doesn't talk to the shareholders and they are held hostage to the CEO because they can't sell their shares or get out.
I really can't see this happening. Atima has offered multiple times to buy out people who weren't satisfied with the investment. There have also been numerous posts by other people willing to purchase shares if anyone wanted out.
Maybe you're just trying to offer constructive advice, but it doesn't really look like it anymore. It looks more like you're trying to incite fear and distrust in the investors and create additional stress. You keep coming up with these dire warning about overwork and burnout. However all your niggling questions are just making more work for her.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.02.27 00:47:00 -
[322]
Chaos, don't be so quick to criticize Cosmoray.
* You own an entire two (2) shares in this. It's easy to go off on how you feel completely safe and secure and happy, when in the event of disaster your losses will total less than 7m.
* You started EVE on 7 December 2008. To put it bluntly, you're inexperienced. Don't be so quick to assume that cosmoray is being critical simply because he can or due to some personal vendetta. You can consider him a watchdog trying to protect investors; overly zealous at times maybe, but he's been around for a lot longer than you and he's seen a lot more stuff go down.
* I'm glad that you feel secure in handing over (a really small amount of) your money and then placing absolute trust in whoever you give it to. When you have lost a few hundred million due to scams, you might develop a different outlook. Furthermore, you are not the only investor (or even a major investor) in this IPO; some of us might feel differently about the amount of communication that's considered 'healthy'. Post #317 in this thread (by Atima) is fantastic. That's the sort of breakdown and information that investors need to see in order to evaluate how the IPO is doing and if they want to cash out or stay the course.
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Chaos Dreams
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Posted - 2009.02.27 02:24:00 -
[323]
Yes, it's true I only have two shares. But that's still two more shares than Cosmoray currently owns in this investment.
I didn't post because I think he isn't experienced, or even because I think he doesn't know what he's doing. In fact, the reason I only invested to the extent of 2 shares was because I was following one of his "golden rules" from Cosmoray's investment for beginners guides: Only invest what you can afford to lose. If other people didn't follow that rule, that's on them.
I posted because I think he's going overboard, and crossing the line from helpful criticism to harrassment. If you, or anyone else, has concerns I don't see any problem with voicing them, asking questions, ect. But everything Cosmoray is saying he's already said, most often multiple times.
And I don't consider repeatedly telling someone they're going to burnout and that they should give up and downsize a 'watchdog' service. To me it looks more like bullying. If you disagree, fine, more power to you. But I'm still going to call it like I see it, and not going to stop just because you think I'm too experienced or small-time of an investor to matter.
Cheers.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.27 03:12:00 -
[324]
I do go on, and there are probably a lot of people who I tick off or think I am an ass. Thats cool but if I badgered Atima enough that she posted her full set of assets and a statement about her operations thats good enough for me.
I do beat people up, and I won't apologize for it. One of the things you mentioned Chaos was "don't invest what you can't afford to lose", but no investor should treat invested capital as "lost" money either. If you think there are problems you should speak up. I speak my mind even if I don't own shares in many businesses.
The failure rate for Atima's type of IPO is VERY HIGH and I don't want to see that IPO fail too. The market is not in a good shape at the moment and I don't want it to worsen.
It's nothing personal it's just business.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.27 04:11:00 -
[325]
Atima, get with me in game please.
We do almost the exact same style of business and I'd like to offer some pointers on how to tighten up your margins. Even to the point of finding out who/what/where our clients are so maybe we can no accidentally compete against each other. |
TheScienceMonkey
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Posted - 2009.02.27 10:36:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Ricdic As the only one who believed in Atima you guys should sell me all your shares at 50% of value immediately.
You're not on your own there Ricdic,
Atima as far as I'm concerned you're doing fine, dont burn yourself out, monthly reports work for me and if you need any help with production and such like shout at my in game.
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Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:14:00 -
[327]
As another small investor in the project I can appreciate Cosmo's points. The secondary market is still reeling after recent events and frequent updates ect on the largest new IPO would be very welcome. I think suggestions of harassment are a little harsh - this is after all a public forum where opinions can and should be expressed. Agressive scrutiny on a 60b IPO should be expected.
With regards to reporting, I think a short weekly general summary of how things are proceeding and a more in-depth monthly report with specific numbers would be useful.
At the same time Atima, I would much rather you be working away than churning out reports. If burnout does become an issue it would cetainly be much better to scale back on the reporting side a little than ruin what is afterall supposed to be a game.
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Forceflow
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:52:00 -
[328]
Atima, thank you for disclosing the state of your operations.
What I (and probably others) was concerned about was mainly the liquidation process. Since Kazuo had posted saying the vote likely passed on the 18, we didn't have any news. If we had known that there had been trouble with the system, much of this would have been avoided.
With this said, I still have confidence in this venture.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.02.27 17:27:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Dagda Morr As another small investor in the project I can appreciate Cosmo's points. The secondary market is still reeling after recent events and frequent updates ect on the largest new IPO would be very welcome. I think suggestions of harassment are a little harsh - this is after all a public forum where opinions can and should be expressed. Agressive scrutiny on a 60b IPO should be expected.
With regards to reporting, I think a short weekly general summary of how things are proceeding and a more in-depth monthly report with specific numbers would be useful.
At the same time Atima, I would much rather you be working away than churning out reports. If burnout does become an issue it would cetainly be much better to scale back on the reporting side a little than ruin what is afterall supposed to be a game.
No big business does weekly reports, too much work. A monthly report is considered good practice with at least profit or sales, divs, NAV (maybe) and some guidance on how things are running. Keeping div payments on a consistant schedule is better than paying early or late as people think an early payment is a new routine.
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Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.02.28 04:36:00 -
[330]
Selling 30 shares, 10.5mil each.
I'm needing to raise cash, I'm not selling because of anything negative with the IPO. Message me in game.
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Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.28 06:15:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Damien Jax Selling 30 shares, 10.5mil each.
I'm needing to raise cash, I'm not selling because of anything negative with the IPO. Message me in game.
Damien I'm not able to log in at this time, but I would be willing to purchase 5 of your shares @ 10.5m each. I will be online shortly after DT to finalize the deal if you'd like.
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Roarke Grasby
Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.02.28 06:38:00 -
[332]
I'll buy the remaining 25 shares from you if they're still available Damien. Sent you a message in game.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:14:00 -
[333]
I will buy the 30 shares back, contact me in game when you want to pass them over.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.28 12:16:00 -
[334]
Sorry, I only refreshed the 11th page and didn't see the other buy orders.
If the other buyers drop out, contact me.
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.02.28 15:49:00 -
[335]
A 2bn dividend has been paid. A further 400mill will be paid as soon as I sell off a blueprint.
Reason for the delay in the last 400mill : BPO unlock took longer than it should have and so I haven't been able to free up the isk to pay the dividend. Also I didn't have the isk in wallet to pay it out in full due to buying the minerals for the next production cycle.
The delay should only be for one day or two.
Sorry for the inconvenience :)
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Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.28 16:22:00 -
[336]
Payment recieved, ty for the update Atima.
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Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.02.28 17:29:00 -
[337]
Waiting on Togen and Roarke to get back to me Atima, if they fall through I'll contact you.
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.01 02:50:00 -
[338]
Dividend received. No issues with Altima or the business plan.
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Akilum
Turanic Raiders
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Posted - 2009.03.01 03:48:00 -
[339]
ISK received, thanks Atima.
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Carl Stonewall
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.02 22:32:00 -
[340]
looking to buy around 80-100 shares if any1 is willing to sell. Contact me IG
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.28 16:26:00 -
[341]
Anything to report Altima? Good, bad, or indifferent?
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Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.03.28 18:27:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Javelin6 Anything to report Altima? Good, bad, or indifferent?
Payment isn't until the last doay of the month, I imagine Atima will wait until then to give a progress report.
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.01 00:09:00 -
[343]
news?
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Sen Gyounen
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Posted - 2009.04.01 03:15:00 -
[344]
I was certainly hoping for a report on the 31st... April 1 isn't the day I want to receive my financial reports... :)
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Azerath
Art of War
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:20:00 -
[345]
Any shares left? I'm looking to through abit of isk around, plz mail me any info, thanks. -------------------------------------------- |
Ricdics
Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:27:00 -
[346]
If anyone wants to sell their Atima shares as a result of the delay I will buy at 60% |
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:38:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Ricdics If anyone wants to sell their Atima shares as a result of the delay I will buy at 60%
How very public spirited of you, especially as the 'delayed' payment was made several hours before you posted this.
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Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.04.01 16:30:00 -
[348]
dividend received
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.02 07:35:00 -
[349]
Dividend received.
I would still Like a general update from Altima. Nothing fancy, just a "this is whats going on" thing.
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Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.04.02 07:40:00 -
[350]
This is not the thread you're looking for *waves hand in mystic gesture
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1010851
Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal
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Javelin6
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.02 09:34:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Dagda Morr This is not the thread you're looking for *waves hand in mystic gesture
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1010851
Doh!
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H3llHound
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Posted - 2009.04.07 20:56:00 -
[352]
I would like to buy 20 shares if there are some available or someones selling.
Plz contact me ingame on this char.
H3llHound
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Kali Rose
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Posted - 2009.04.08 08:33:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Kali Rose on 08/04/2009 08:33:39 i'll take 200 mio of shares if someones selling
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darkrei9n2
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Posted - 2009.04.15 11:16:00 -
[354]
I'll buy a share, yeah I'm poor and investing. I already invested some of my isk into something else. I'll send the isk after I get home from school.
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Murixo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.15 12:20:00 -
[355]
Originally by: darkrei9n2 I'll buy a share, yeah I'm poor and investing. I already invested some of my isk into something else. I'll send the isk after I get home from school.
There aren't any to buy as far as I'm aware, not unless someone is selling their shares. Best talk to Atima or Kazuo first.
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Alesk Remo
Amarr Corpus Prometheus
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Posted - 2009.04.27 10:43:00 -
[356]
If anyone's interested, I'm selling my 10 shares @ 10.5 mil per share. I'm selling these to raise funds for my own personal ventures and have no issues with this IPO.
Contact me ingame if you're interested.
Regards,
Alesk Remo ---
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