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Falcon, the anti-fun of eve

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Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:15:00 - [181] If ECM were massively overpowered, we would see more ECM than we do. In fact, we'd see Caldari pilots flying nothing else just as once upon a time we saw nothing but WCS fitted nanophoons and vagabonds from minmatar pilots, eight heatsink gankageddons from the amarr and the power of RSD isn't too distant a memory. The bottom line is that whilst ECM is immensely frustrating, in principle it's doing exactly what it was always designed to do and has itself eaten a nerf in the past to get us where we are today. As such any radical changes to ECM should really be discouraged, but some minor changes to the way it functions might actually be able to reverse some of the damage done to ECM in the past, yet simultaneously reduce it's overall effectiveness in line with changes to other EW in the past. See my signature for more details, and thank you for your time. Hardpoint Rigs ECM Balancing
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:18:00 - [182] Originally by: Major Celine Yes, and an ECCM fitted on a RR BS won't change that fact. You are correct. 1 ECCM, haha. Originally by: Lilith Velkor ECCM'ed sniper BS come with the same amount of prepared 200km bookmarks as falcons do, dont see why they should get popped. 1/10 for trolling.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:31:00 - [183] Originally by: Stalina Originally by: Lilith Velkor ECCM'ed sniper BS come with the same amount of prepared 200km bookmarks as falcons do, dont see why they should get popped. 1/10 for trolling. That was meant serious btw.
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:32:00 - [184] Serious troll?
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:40:00 - [185] Originally by: Stalina Serious troll? What I was trying to say is, your snipers can do the same thing the ebil hax0rz do in their falcons, stay outside range of anything that can hit them. Setup a few bookmarks to warp around so you dont get caught that fast and there you go. Whats so hard to grasp?
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:44:00 - [186] Originally by: Stalina 1 ECCM, haha. One ECCM is quite a lot. There is no other anti-EW madule taht is as effective as ECCM, mind you. Quote: 1/10 for trolling. I have to call you to reality, my friend. The troll here is you. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:52:00 - [187] Edited by: Stalina on 14/01/2009 22:55:36 Originally by: Lilith Velkor What I was trying to say is, your snipers can do the same thing the ebil hax0rz do in their falcons, stay outside range of anything that can hit them. Setup a few bookmarks to warp around so you dont get caught that fast and there you go. Whats so hard to grasp? But this kinda limits you to a few systems. Or your roaming might take a little longer as your covops need to make spots around every gate. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Stalina 1 ECCM, haha. One ECCM is quite a lot. There is no other anti-EW madule taht is as effective as ECCM, mind you. Actually it is effective if you look at the numbers. Indeed, its great! Though you still get jammed until you either die or warp out. I mean "ingame", not on forums. Originally by: Etho Demerzel Quote: 1/10 for trolling. I have to call you to reality, my friend. The troll here is you. Im not sure what makes you think that, but I actually use my falcon char and Im not bitter about dying to falcon blobs, as this did not happen to me. Still I hate being jammed for 60 seconds+ in Hacs, CS, BS while having ECCM fitted. I finally unfitted ECCM and got another Sensor Booster for faster locking once a cycle fails, if that happens. How about you? Do you use ECCM effectively with your main? Anyway if you tell me I should get ECCM snipers and other ECCM ships into gang to effectively fight (a) Falcon(s), the OP is right.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:52:00 - [188] Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 14/01/2009 22:52:34 Originally by: Etho Demerzel One ECCM is quite a lot. There is no other anti-EW madule taht is as effective as ECCM, mind you. Wait are you kidding me? One ECCM does jack **** on my malediction. And tell me exactly why I shouldnt have the option on my tackling ceptor to be a falcon tackler and therefor use eccm in one of my mids. It should be viable on all ships, it is not. ECM IS OVERPOWERED.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:57:00 - [189] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 14/01/2009 22:58:28 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 14/01/2009 22:57:44 Originally by: Stalina But this kinda limits you to a few systems. Or your roaming might take a little longer as your covops need to make spots around every gate. But the other guys have that very same issue, thats the price you pay when going with long-range tactics. I cant see a problem there honestly, besides 100km will do just fine for general purpose. Originally by: Stalina How about you? Do you use ECCM effectively with your main? I actually fit it on anything bigger than a cruiser. It is well worth the slot imo, but then again I'm not expecting to be immune to jamming either. (Only worth it in gangs tho, solo vs ecm you are always screwed.)
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:58:00 - [190] ECM is not overpowered since falcon alts equal cash for ccp. no way they gonna nerf them anytime soon

Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:58:00 - [191] Hmm, I have ECCM on my logistics and get jammed maybe once a week. ECCM works, what do I right and you guys wrong? Yeah, I actually fit it.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:59:00 - [192] Originally by: Major Celine Hmm, I have ECCM on my logistics and get jammed maybe once a week. ECCM works, what do I right and you guys wrong? Yeah, I actually fit it. Good for your oneiros. Not every ship is an oneiros that can burn several mids for ECCM.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:00:00 - [193] Originally by: Major Celine Hmm, I have ECCM on my logistics and get jammed maybe once a week. ECCM works, what do I right and you guys wrong? Yeah, I actually fit it. LOL NOOB IT DOESNT WORK YOU STILL GET JAMMED!!!!ONEELEVEN
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:03:00 - [194] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Major Celine Hmm, I have ECCM on my logistics and get jammed maybe once a week. ECCM works, what do I right and you guys wrong? Yeah, I actually fit it. LOL NOOB IT DOESNT WORK YOU STILL GET JAMMED!!!!ONEELEVEN How come a stiletto can fit 2 SBs and tackle a gallente recon but it cant fit 2 eccm and viably tackle a falcon? Why do you think this is ok? Just admit it, eccm sucks and is broken.
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:12:00 - [195] Edited by: Stalina on 14/01/2009 23:13:13 Originally by: Lilith Velkor But the other guys have that very same issue, thats the price you pay when going with long-range tactics. I cant see a problem there honestly, besides 100km will do just fine for general purpose. So If you go out in a small gang, you need to get some specialized eccm ships and even some ships with remote eccm, while you still need tacklers ( med slots / tackle gear / eccm, i think you get it ) around. This is what the op was saying. Your small gang becomes a bigger gang, just to counter ecm. Solo is impossible when a ecm ship is around, as you stated yourself, small gangs need more numbers to counter ecm. Either fit eccm and get more people to compensate for the lost med slots/damage/whatever or run away without a fight, thats how it is. Forgot, bring your own falcon.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:15:00 - [196] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong How come a stiletto can fit 2 SBs and tackle a gallente recon but it cant fit 2 eccm and viably tackle a falcon? Why do you think this is ok? Just admit it, eccm sucks and is broken. ECCM vs ECM is different from SB vs RSD, basically one SB counters one SB while one ECCM reduces the jamming chance for every ECM module on Tranquility by 50%. Actually a Stiletto with 32.4 sensor strength doesnt look that bad to me against a falcon, 43% chance to get jammed by a ladar ecm, and they are not the most popular ecm modules either, he'll have maximum one. Wrong racial is 14% chance, multispec is 30%, your idea could even work.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:16:00 - [197] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Wrong racial is 14% chance, multispec is 30%, your idea could even work. So why is it ok that the counters for ecm are so much worse then the other types of ew?
Jonas Barcal Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:16:00 - [198] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Lilith Velkor Wrong racial is 14% chance, multispec is 30%, your idea could even work. So why is it ok that the counters for ecm are so much worse then the other types of ew? It's not ok.. Nerf the other counters.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:21:00 - [199] Originally by: Stalina So If you go out in a small gang, you need to get some specialized eccm ships and even some ships with remote eccm, while you still need tacklers ( med slots / tackle gear / eccm, i think you get it ) around. This is what the op was saying. Your small gang becomes a bigger gang, just to counter ecm. Solo is impossible when a ecm ship is around, as you stated yourself, small gangs need more numbers to counter ecm. Either fit eccm and get more people to compensate for the lost med slots/damage/whatever or run away without a fight, thats how it is. Forgot, bring your own falcon. So what, if they decide to bring TDs I'll need to fly only missile boats or bring more people to compensate for lost dps. If they bring remote reps, I need more people to break the turtle tank, or I need ECM... If they bring neuts my active tanks are worth crap, sucks for small gangs -> bring more people. They drop a carrier on your small gang -> sucks, bring more people. I see a pattern there, its not an ecm issue, its a blob issue.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:25:00 - [200] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Lilith Velkor Wrong racial is 14% chance, multispec is 30%, your idea could even work. So why is it ok that the counters for ecm are so much worse then the other types of ew? It is just different not worse. In some respect it is the best of all the counters because its effect works equally well on an infinite amount of hostile modules, not just one. And talking about counters, there isnt even any counter for TDs as there is no module to boost falloff. Why is that ok again?

Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:30:00 - [201] Edited by: Major Celine on 14/01/2009 23:31:24 Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Major Celine Hmm, I have ECCM on my logistics and get jammed maybe once a week. ECCM works, what do I right and you guys wrong? Yeah, I actually fit it. Good for your oneiros. Not every ship is an oneiros that can burn several mids for ECCM. 1x ECCM and it is not an Oneiros. Works very well. And its not a burned slot because I counter ECM.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:30:00 - [202] Originally by: Lilith Velkor In some respect it is the best of all the counters because its effect works equally well on an infinite amount of hostile modules, not just one. What!? Wait did you just now say that ECCM works equally well on an infinite amount of hostile modules? You do know it is exactly the opposite. Since ECM is not stacking nerfed a group of ECM modules will totally perma jam you ECCM or not. If you on the other hand have 3 SBs to counter Damps your opponents can put 100 damps on you and you will still be able to counter it fairly well with 3 SBs. Really, do you even play this game or have any basic knowlege of the game mechanics? You are starting to sound just as ignorant as murina.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:32:00 - [203] Originally by: Major Celine 1x ECCM and it is not an Oneiros. Works very well. Don't lie. My standard fit falcon can perma jam any subcapital ship with 1 single ECCM. People in this thread actually play the game.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:34:00 - [204] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Major Celine 1x ECCM and it is not an Oneiros. Works very well. Don't lie. My standard fit falcon can perma jam any subcapital ship with 1 single ECCM. People in this thread actually play the game. Any ship with over 14ish str CANNOT be "perma jammed" its simply imposable cos that roughly the max str of jammers, you are a liar.
Jonas Barcal Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:34:00 - [205] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Major Celine 1x ECCM and it is not an Oneiros. Works very well. Don't lie. My standard fit falcon can perma jam any subcapital ship with 1 single ECCM. People in this thread actually play the game. I love my 2 x Onerios alts :D
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:35:00 - [206] Originally by: Murina Any ship with over 14ish str CANNOT be "perma jammed" its simply imposable cos that roughly the max str of jammers, you are a liar. Actually it can.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:39:00 - [207] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Murina Any ship with over 14ish str CANNOT be "perma jammed" its simply imposable cos that roughly the max str of jammers, you are a liar. Actually it can. For somebody who preaches about the mechanics of the game you do talk a lot of rubbish, to permanently jam a ship with higher str than the jammer trying to jam it is imposable. But by all means proof of stfu i believe is the expression...
Major Celine	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:39:00 - [208] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Major Celine 1x ECCM and it is not an Oneiros. Works very well. Don't lie. My standard fit falcon can perma jam any subcapital ship with 1 single ECCM. People in this thread actually play the game. Seriously, stop posting, you make yourself looking stupid...
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:41:00 - [209] Originally by: Major Celine Seriously, stop posting, you make yourself looking stupid... Do you see the irony here?
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:42:00 - [210] Originally by: Murina But by all means proof of stfu i believe is the expression... Wait, where is YOUR proof of these impossible perma jams? Oh the irony again.



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