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Why isn't Eve more successful?

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Matrix Operator Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:38:00 - [1] - Quote I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers... It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics. I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me?
Lapine Davion Outer Ring Applied Logistics 198	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:41:00 - [2] - Quote It's because of you.
Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 100	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:42:00 - [3] - Quote I predict great things from this thread. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 642	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:43:00 - [4] - Quote Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles.
Brooks Puuntai Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN. 472	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:45:00 - [5] - Quote You act as if its a bad thing Eve isn't as popular as WoW or SWTOR. Could you imagine 5 million PCU and watching the servers explode. Eve's major design flaw is the fact it doesn't scale well with high numbers.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 1183	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:45:00 - [6] - Quote I might be because EVE is a niche product. It's designed to attract the worst lowlife scum of the internet. Those that have been banned from every other MMO for various offenses. There are only so many people that can handle being around such a concentrated grouping of total sociopaths and actually enjoy it. The real question in my mind, is how EVE has managed to attract as many players as they have? Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too!
Serge Bastana GWA Corp 322	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:46:00 - [7] - Quote St Mio wrote: Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles. This. Too many people brought up wanting it now, now, now and having it fed to them via TV or other media. I've seen people posting that they're bored in the game not realising that it's up to them to create their own stories in EVE. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...
Pak Narhoo Knights of Kador 439	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:51:00 - [8] - Quote St Mio wrote: Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles. And c), that in EVE you are allowed to kick over those sandcastles build under b). Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama.
D Program Yamamoto Industries 18	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:53:00 - [9] - Quote Most people are puppets, they need a caretaker to show them where to go and what to do. In EVE players have to make their own choices and opinions. That is difficult for majority of the population. What is this sorcery? http://www.eve-cost.eu
Vetorept Fera Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 34	Posted - 2012.04.17 06:53:00 - [10] - Quote I would imagine it's because you can't be powerleveled or "ran through" anything. You can't buy "loot rights" there's no group finder, no instance finder, no fight finder and no raid finder. It's a sandbox. 50% of the content is player created. There's no linear progression path, you choose your own destiny based upon what you consider fun or enjoyable. Most MMO players aren't used to this experience. They're used to "endgame" and "being uber." In pace requiescat

Bully Hedro Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:04:00 - [11] - Quote Could only be one of two differences. 1) Either Eve doesn't attract the same number of players or 2) Eve does attract high numbers but then they quit. What would be interesting to see is the number of players that initially played Eve and then quit. Wonder if the devs would be so kind as to share these numbers. The reputation at being a troll invested, griefers club probably has a lot to do with it as well. Just look at the forums. Probably the most poorly moderated prepubescent troll invested game forum in the industry. Gives a clue to what the in-game has in store.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3357	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:11:00 - [12] - Quote Matrix Operator wrote: I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers... It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics. I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? Because the actual gameplay itself (point-and-click to move) isn't all that much fun. It's slow, frustrating and unintuitive. Pretty much everything about EVE is great except the way you have to do things in it. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jackson Steely Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:11:00 - [13] - Quote Inb4 mass amounts of "we're better than other mmo players"
Jim Malderan Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:14:00 - [14] - Quote People are scared of the learning curve, although I feel that I've gotten the hang of the basics quite fast now since I started a week ago. EVE has such a hardcore reputation, and it is really hardcore compared to other games out there. The main problem is that people can't see that higher risks means higher rewards.
Matrix Operator Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:15:00 - [15] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Because the actual gameplay itself (point-and-click to move) isn't all that much fun. It's slow, frustrating and unintuitive. Pretty much everything about EVE is great except the way you have to do things in it. Most MMOPGs have a point and click format as well however. Not much difference here. Jim Malderan wrote: People are scared of the learning curve, although I feel that I've gotten the hang of the basics quite fast now since I started a week ago. EVE has such a hardcore reputation, and it is really hardcore compared to other games out there. The main problem is that people can't see that higher risks means higher rewards. I dunno. A lot of MMOPGs have learning curves just as steep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbs1tW6w8R0
Kuehnelt Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet 3	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:24:00 - [16] - Quote Based on watching Rookie Help, the reason is that the New Player Experience does not include any alternative to the trio of 1. reading, 2. actively exploring the interface, and, redundantly, 3. right-clicking everything. #1 already quarters your potential user base. CCP, you can simulate a realistic view of humanity by pretending that many of your potential users have recently received a severe head injury, and only want to play EVE after taking too many pain relievers. Have that user in mind, and then add 100MB of animated GIFs to the client, with thick red boxes and big red arrows. On first run, play one video (per supported language) that introduces the interface, how you're meant to move around, and how to get help. That's it. Think of the doped-up head injury patients --> always have 100k active pilots.
Dr Silkworth Two Geezers in Space 16	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:24:00 - [17] - Quote I'd really like to see more stuff for creating corps with a plan. I'm talking project management widgets, more flexible corps hierarchies and roles,with better internal security and goal setting and measurement tools. To me its first and foremost a sandbox for experimenting with business models. All business models must incorporate risk management and be flexible enough to incorporate the gamut of human behaviors. We need PVP to provide the risk but thats only about 1/6 of the story. In my vision it would be a niche but not for sociopaths. It would be so credible as a sandbox that our niche would be real innovators in the world o f business and finance with the innovativeness of silicon valley start ups. We really have some of this in EVE but we need more and I think we should have more internal tools so even fools can learn how to do it. The sociopath path were on just proves what nobody wants to accept, that a pure capitalist military structure tears itself apart and stagnates without outside input such as CCP. Do We fail as a society and community? It sure looks like it. But we could use a better framework. We keep fiddling with rules of engagement and encourage mutual destruction but it just doesn't work and people know it. They come here and just know it can't work like this or even imagining it could work like this enough to invest their time into trying will be fruitless. We need more toys in the sandbox.
Sasha Azala Blood and Decay 219	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:24:00 - [18] - Quote In part, because you don't have a character as such (ok, we do now but CQ does not count for much). Because it's a game just in space with no character socialisation. Because EVE has a bad reputation and the players have a reputation for griefing and griefing seems to be encouraged by the game mechanics. Because not everyone wants to buy PLEX on top of their monthly subscription just to play (casual players). Because PvP is far too costly to engage in ISK wise and you could find yourself in a position that you can't PvP due to lack of funds. Because corps are too paranoid about who they recruit and put restrictions on who they will recruit and this usually excludes newer players. Because there's little actual ingame interaction in NPC corps other than the corp chat. Because training your character is very slow and most gamers want to be able to get into the action quicker. Because ...
Sri Nova Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 57	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:27:00 - [19] - Quote blah fixing
Ai Shun 650	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:33:00 - [20] - Quote Matrix Operator wrote: I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? The game style appeals to different demographics. Same reason that Justin Bieber is more popular (currently) than say ... Queen. (Why did I say that, I love Queen - but they're the best example I can think of)

Babar Baboli Northen Star inc Stardust Underground 1	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:41:00 - [21] - Quote Eve is really bad at keeping their new players. Otherwise; Sci-fi > Gay elves
Roime Shiva Furnace 482	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:45:00 - [22] - Quote :effort:
Francisco Bizzaro 22	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:45:00 - [23] - Quote Matrix Operator wrote: Malcanis wrote: Because the actual gameplay itself (point-and-click to move) isn't all that much fun. It's slow, frustrating and unintuitive. Pretty much everything about EVE is great except the way you have to do things in it. Most MMOPGs have a point and click format as well however. Not much difference here. Eve is a bit extreme, though. People have commented on the beautiful graphics, but the fact is they are almost completely redundant. The entire game interface involves clicking on lists and typing numbers into fields.
Akrasjel Lanate Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 706	Posted - 2012.04.17 07:53:00 - [24] - Quote St Mio wrote: Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles. <3
Zey Nadar Aliastra Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:03:00 - [25] - Quote The amount of things to do is rather limited, and the pvp aspect is also rather limiting (it forces you to play safe or just throw it all away). I got bored at player corps doing the same things over and over and have now migrated to other games.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School 158	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:04:00 - [26] - Quote Terrible incompetent vikings are trying their best to destroy it everyday
Roime Shiva Furnace 482	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:07:00 - [27] - Quote Zey Nadar wrote: The amount of things to do is rather limited, and the pvp aspect is also rather limiting (it forces you to play safe or just throw it all away). I got bored at player corps doing the same things over and over and have now migrated to other games. wut I've played for 1.5 years and there are still huge areas of the game I haven't even touched :o Also not sure what you mean with "limiting PVP aspect", you can fight just the way you prefer.
Zey Nadar Aliastra Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:12:00 - [28] - Quote Roime wrote: wut I've played for 1.5 years and there are still huge areas of the game I haven't even touched :o Also not sure what you mean with "limiting PVP aspect", you can fight just the way you prefer. Well I subscribed in 2006. And Ive done pretty much everything. By pvp aspect I didnt mean actual pvp, rather every other activity where you have to take other players attacking you into account. This leads to "playing it safe" like hanging around at stations, cloaking, etc extremely boring. The other option is to be part of a big fleet where you lose all individuality. Been there, done that. Thats all there is to it, I pretty much summed eve up. You can do it in different ships, with different people, but its all the same in the end.
Ank Parkor WildSpace Otters 17	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:25:00 - [29] - Quote 1) Too difficult to learn, even the basics 2) No ability to speed up the training queue, first impression if that it will take years to be competitive (which isn't really wrong) 3) Griefers everywhere 4) No end game, disturbing sandbox effect 5) Disseminated informations (try to get a good resume for Epic arc besides Amarr), even if wiki becomes better 6) Player "Skills" are invented, they just are spreadsheet results 7) Known for being a bot game 8) Complicated mechanics and lack of explications in game (no one really read the tutorials the first time). You need to read a lot to understand the basics. 9) Counter intuitive in many points: in all the other mmo the bigger the better 10) Again, overall complexicity. What is fun for us isn't for many players. 11) Lack of representation, you're just a ship and in fact a moving overcomplicated spreadsheet who looks like a ship In Wow it takes some hours to master your class and a lot of players don't make the effort to read something. Don't hope they will do for EVE. TL;DR: Elitist game Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.
Kreeia Dgore EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis 6	Posted - 2012.04.17 08:35:00 - [30] - Quote Long story short, nothing protects you from ill-mindness of other players.You will be harmed and since gamers play games for fun and getting beaten with no chance of doing something against it isn't fun, not many new players play the game. Also, fanbase. See how many idiots are on the forums. You post a topic in which there is some level of misunderstanding the game mechanics (as one should expect from a beginner) and he is being laughed at and ridiculed. Then there are folks who would love to rob the guy and exploit his unawareness. Then there are internet ego maniacs. And then, after all this, maybe someone replies and helps you or explains how the thing works. Since all of this are issues the CCP can change and i don't see them doing anything about it, i suppose they are well satisfied with the current ammount of players (which is growing steadily). After all, it is a well manageable community. Having the number of active players doubled, who knows how it may turn out.



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