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Bobinu	Posted - 2009.01.16 08:07:00 - [1] Does anyone have an opinion on this?? and why?
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.16 08:09:00 - [2] The best stealth bomber is the one you don't bring into my gangs. I would rather have a rifter in my gang than a stealth bomber. Utterly useless for the vast majority of the fighting you'll do, and only slightly more valuable for gangs requiring stealth and quick moving. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Gneeznow Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2009.01.16 08:14:00 - [3] bombers are worthless
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.16 08:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Gneeznow bombers are worthless
mcnuggetlol Amarr Cold Blooded Killers	Posted - 2009.01.16 09:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Gneeznow bombers are worthless Now that's not entirely true as a stealth bomber pilot I....
DjLowballer Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP	Posted - 2009.01.16 10:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Gneeznow bombers are worthless Please Vote DjLowballer as your delegate to the CSM!
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 10:42:00 - [7] [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II With this setup I have torn apart everything from badgers to ravens solo. In groups I get used as a scout, anti falcon, anti support and for warp in points. It is also very good at Breaking tanks of hard targets when in small gangs.
SharpMango 14th Legion	Posted - 2009.01.16 10:59:00 - [8] well.....when i decided to pick which SB to go for, outta the 4.. i picked the Hound..i used the compare tool and eventually just decided the hound suited my play style best...ofc since the ONLY goal of the account skilling is for the hound, he's gonna become a pure maximised account. if on the other hand a player wants to do other stuff with his account, i'd suggest manticore, after all, an SB does require an f'load of skills to get good, especially in the missile department, so might as well train caldari.
achoura	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Gneeznow bombers are worthless I lived by this for more than two and a half years, Then i took a hound out in a hac gang and found myself on the top, or in the top three, on ever kill i was involved in there's something pleasing when you're little frig does 12K damage to a tempest
Gallente trader10	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:14:00 - [10] the best stealth bomber is whichever type your opponent is flying, they blow up equally fast.

Caffeine Junkie Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:24:00 - [11] Avatar with a Cloak?
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:27:00 - [12] Have a look and see witch one gives the best minerals when its reprocessed........
LadyLubU2 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:31:00 - [13] So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots!
Caffeine Junkie Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:36:00 - [14] Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! You may wish to conclude from this that they do indeed suck! However thats not entirely true, they do have uses, just they are few and far between.
LadyLubU2 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! You may wish to conclude from this that they do indeed suck! However thats not entirely true, they do have uses, just they are few and far between. Just like the arazu as an example? But o wai.....every time i bring up that point i get trolled to death and people tell me the ship is fine! Also in before Merin Trollski
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:40:00 - [16] They suck now. They didnt suck before the RSD Nerf, and they slightly sucked after (You could use 2 RSD's). Now they are worthless against anything that isnt fail fit or n00b piloted. When an Inty tanks you at 15km and wears you down and you watch your missle group hit for 50 thats pretty FAIL. (And this is with Max missle skills).
achoura	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:04:00 - [17] I should have also pointed out i hover around 170km, well beyond the range rsd can, or could eve, be used in. I agree the uses are few and far between, but it still amazes me people complain about them not being viable when use close range (relatively speak) despite them being specifically gear for long range bombardment. Somewhere between 180-190 km should be around the max range.
eXtas Atomic Battle Penguins	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:16:00 - [18] Originally by: achoura I should have also pointed out i hover around 170km, well beyond the range rsd can, or could eve, be used in. I agree the uses are few and far between, but it still amazes me people complain about them not being viable when use close range (relatively speak) despite them being specifically gear for long range bombardment. Somewhere between 180-190 km should be around the max range. they suck... a noobrifter would kill a bomber now after changes since the missiles hits a frig for like 100 damage.. before speednerf they were atleast a litle scary if they had a webb or cough something not at mwd speed :) and for you saying its grate for dps or sitting at 200km... a ranis does probobly more dps and is usefull for gang, allso check out claw and sader. oh and if you sit at long range with a bomber it will take missiles forever to hit... any untakled target will warp off.. if you want range I sugest you use a cormrant, thrasher or harpy.. atleast they got instadamage and can actualy hurt frigs
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:26:00 - [19] Perhaps if you lot stopped attacking frigates with cruise missiles and started hitting haulers and cruisers you wouldnt burn up as much...
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:55:00 - [20] Fly what is fun for you - if your FC allows it ! To answer your question - each SB has a bonus for a certain damage type. So it all depends on your target. Crosstraining for a different race does not take long at all when it comes to frigs.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:14:00 - [21] Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! NARF FALCONS WAIT I MEAN HYPOCRITES.
LadyLubU2 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! NARF FALCONS WAIT I MEAN HYPOCRITES. OK
retro mike	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:43:00 - [23] Bombers have been crippled since the missile nerf. They need a bonus to explosion velocity to become even remotely useful again.
LadyLubU2 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:47:00 - [24] Originally by: retro mike Bombers have been crippled since the missile nerf. They need a bonus to explosion velocity to become even remotely useful again. No, people should stop thinking the role of SB is to onevolley frigs and inties.
retro mike	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:50:00 - [25] Originally by: LadyLubU2 No, people should stop thinking the role of SB is to onevolley frigs and inties. Read the ship description
LadyLubU2 Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:53:00 - [26] Originally by: retro mike Originally by: LadyLubU2 No, people should stop thinking the role of SB is to onevolley frigs and inties. Read the ship description Hint: The impairor class frigate is the most common spacevessel according to its description.
Neyro7830 Gallente Axxeon	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:59:00 - [27] I'd say go for the Nemesis, because of the mid slots, you can fit a damp a TP and 2 sensor boosters on it... Then again, I'm biased... <3 Gallente for no real reason. >______>; Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
Dray Caldari Clowns with Downs	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:12:00 - [28] Originally by: retro mike Originally by: LadyLubU2 No, people should stop thinking the role of SB is to onevolley frigs and inties. Read the ship description To be fair if we worked with most ships in game based on the description there'd more whines than ever in here.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:13:00 - [29] Originally by: retro mike Bombers have been crippled since the missile nerf. They need a bonus to explosion velocity to become even remotely useful again. The damage numbers quoted here. Are they faction missiles or T2 precision missiles? The latter appear to have little better explosion velocity and drop off slower as explosion velocity is exceeded.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:16:00 - [30] Originally by: retro mike Originally by: LadyLubU2 No, people should stop thinking the role of SB is to onevolley frigs and inties. Read the ship description Id rather go by my experience with the ship than a bit of text. Even before the missile nerf I wouldnt engage frigates.

Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:20:00 - [31] I agree, bombers is more of a novelty thing. They can be fun, but not really that worth while. I rather perfer AF's or frigs, and if I wanna bring dps I bring a big ship, or a recon if I wanna be stealthy.
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:18:00 - [32] SB's worth are in the eyes of the beholder. First and formost they are NOT a inty killer. Avoid frigs like the plague. Instead SB's shine in Null sec gate camps where you can add a decent bit of fire power on the right targets. Like any ship in Eve the SB has it's place and time. The trick is to know where and when.
DjLowballer Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:56:00 - [33] I think its fair that they could have their uses. I mean their titular weapon system is only used in 0.0 so it makes sense that it would be good down there. here is something I always wondered: If all of the SB pilots here got together and coordinated to a fleet of like 50, then just flew in fleet battles doing bombing runs, would it actually do anything?
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.16 16:30:00 - [34] The problem with that many bombers with bombs is coordinating them. To often you would find the bombs killing each other as you went in to place the bombs. OTOH, 50 bombers uncloaking and letting loose a salvo of 150 missiles could be quite painful to the target ship.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:01:00 - [35] Dump the bombs and fit cruise and they will insta pop any battleship.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Lrrp SB's worth are in the eyes of the beholder. First and formost they are NOT a inty killer. Avoid frigs like the plague. Instead SB's shine in Null sec gate camps where you can add a decent bit of fire power on the right targets. Like any ship in Eve the SB has it's place and time. The trick is to know where and when. The problem is the the place and time is really really lows comapred to any other ship. Sure it may be worth it in the eyes of the beholder, but not in an objective way ;). I do not agree on them shining in 0.0, a BS would add more dps, a BC would add more dps. A gun ship would add instant dps. All in all I think that SB's need a lot of change to be usable. They can't even do a full T2 fit for maximum alpha.
Bret Caliaro harrasment ltd.	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:31:00 - [37] I'm going to try this later but until then how do they fair against BCs, HACs and anything cruiser shapped? CTD while scrambled, possibly the most fun I've ever had in my life.
Rogue Lilly Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:21:00 - [38] Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 16/01/2009 19:22:54 Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 16/01/2009 19:22:22 It's funny that the majority of SB hatred posts are how "they only do about 50 damage against a frigate." really? really? that's your complaint? That's like whining about a b2 stealth bomber not being able to take out an f-16 in a dogfight. When in the entire history of aircraft warfare has a bomber been superior to a fighter in combat.....never. they are meant to bomb, hence the name. target selection, very important.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:23:00 - [39] Edited by: baltec1 on 16/01/2009 19:27:05 Originally by: Bret Caliaro I'm going to try this later but until then how do they fair against BCs, HACs and anything cruiser shapped? Go to 50-60km range, get your disruptors on them and just let rip with your missiles. If they get too close cloak up. T1 cruisers go down fairly fast, BC will be a hard fight to beat down (unless they are set up for missions in which case even battleships will fold). Hacs are best avoided unless your in a gang. You can go even further out if you want, just be mindfull of the disrupots and their targeting range.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:28:00 - [40] Purifier is an amazing ship, especially if you start thinking about some speed fits (yes, I'm serious). For general purpose, I prefer the Nemesis for the mids and thermal damage.

Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:56:00 - [41] Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! I came to the conclusion that they suck for most purposes when I realized that I'd rather have any other ship in my gang than a stealth bomber and when I welcomed them in enemy gangs, because the FC might think that he actually has a good ship in his fleet. I did try flying stealth bombers myself - I found them slow, vulnerable, not actually very stealthy, and offensively very weak. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.01.16 20:04:00 - [42] Hound. It's the fastest SB and has the highest lock time. And explosive damage bonus. ...but on a serious note, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Nyack hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.17 01:25:00 - [43] purifiers are good at killing falcons as most falcon pilots tend to not tank their falcons they have a huge EM resist gap. 4-5 purifiers in bigger gangs dedicated to attacking falcons can turn the tide on a figth since there are so ****ing lots of falcons in gangs these days.. + puris are good since they can get 2 ballistics + mwd
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.19 05:41:00 - [44] Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 16/01/2009 19:27:33 Originally by: Bret Caliaro I'm going to try this later but until then how do they fair against BCs, HACs and anything cruiser shapped? Go to 50-60km range, get your disruptors on them and just let rip with your missiles. If they get too close cloak up. T1 cruisers go down fairly fast, BC will be a hard fight to beat down (unless they are set up for missions in which case even battleships will fold). Hacs are best avoided unless your in a gang. You can go even further out if you want, just be mindfull of the disruptors and their targeting range. So what exactly is your plan to KILL that cruiser? You're smoking the good stuff if you think you can pop it before it can align and warp out, so you either: 1) Waste missiles doing absolutely nothing. OR 2) Get in close, and become a comedy killmail. Either way, I'm very thankful every time my opponents are stupid enough to bring a stealth bomber to the fight. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2009.01.19 21:06:00 - [45] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 19/01/2009 21:15:12 I like the Hound. People who say SB suck don't fly them correctly. In larger small-ship gangs, where you don't get off more than 1-2 salvos anyway before a primary goes down, they're great damage dealers. They are the one ship I love against falcons. Have the main guys in your gang fight it out while you make that annoying falcon warp in and out, drastically decreasing its effectiveness. Fit a passive targeter! Also, they're not close range ships, so stop saying stuff like "but a rifter will kill it". If you let that rifter close enough to kill you, you deserve to die. They're not great for solo'ing though, unless all you wanna blow up are haulers and noobs. _______________ My nerfed sig showed Angelina Jolie's lips with blood running out of her mouth
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 05:52:00 - [46] SBs are fine, you just need to decide if they are for you and learn to use them correctly. Flying in a group is great fun. Since the nerf i don't go for Inty's or frigates anymore and instead stick to destroyers, haulers and cruisers. A gang of 4 of us lastnight killed an Amarr cruiser with one volley each, all cloacking before the missiles hit the target. He had time to get his drones out before he popped. He was a little over 2 years old with a T2 fitted ship. He grumbled about us not playing fair and warped off in his pod, see fun! Theres no reason for a SB not to be effective, i often go out solo and have success and have fun doing it. Yes things need addressing but im sure it's on CCP's list. Above all else have fun with the game and fly safe ----------------------------------------------- Tralowski independent Traders (TiT) Building Capital components and Capital repair modules.
Lucia Wilber Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.01.20 06:11:00 - [47] This is just my 2 cents since I'm a noob to PvP, but I have to agree that claiming a Stealth Bomber isn't good vs. frigates and interceptors is pretty stupid. As bombers, they're intended to attack larger targets (battleships and larger), so in small-medium size gang PvP, I'd assume they're less useful since most PvP on this scale involves lighter cruisers, HACs, and similar ship types. They're a tactical weapon, meant for a very specific tactical role. You might as well complain that your Caracal can't efficiently tank Level 4 missions.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.20 06:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Brego Tralowski Since the nerf i don't go for Inty's or frigates anymore and instead stick to destroyers, haulers and cruisers. A gang of 4 of us lastnight killed an Amarr cruiser with one volley each, all cloacking before the missiles hit the target. He had time to get his drones out before he popped. He was a little over 2 years old with a T2 fitted ship. He grumbled about us not playing fair and warped off in his pod, see fun! So you killed a T1 cruiser with 4v1 odds. Err, congratulations? Here's a hint: you'd have to think really hard to come up with a ship that couldn't kill a T1 cruiser with 4v1 odds. This doesn't mean bombers are good, it just means that 4v1 odds are good. Originally by: Lucia Wilber This is just my 2 cents since I'm a noob to PvP, but I have to agree that claiming a Stealth Bomber isn't good vs. frigates and interceptors is pretty stupid. As bombers, they're intended to attack larger targets (battleships and larger), so in small-medium size gang PvP, I'd assume they're less useful since most PvP on this scale involves lighter cruisers, HACs, and similar ship types. Except against battleships, the damage done by a bomber is a joke. In every single plausible scenario, you are better off just bringing an equal number of battleships instead, if your goal is killing enemy battleships.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 06:38:00 - [49] What I was trying to convey, was that a cruiser can be destroyed in 4 volleys. I killed an osprey in 3 volleys on my own the day before. Just saying you can be effective on your own. Don't dismiss a ship just because you (general) can't use it properly, find a ship that you can and use that instead. Everybody has a ship they like to use and get on well with, for me and my crew its our SB's. Like I said before, have fun it's a game afterall! And of course fly safe
Venomae Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.20 07:01:00 - [50] Originally by: LadyLubU2 So literally EVERYONE is saying SB suck because our beloveth troll Merin keeps spamming every single SB thread with his own stupid oppinion about SB? Way to go, parrots! Don't worry, merin never has flown one and these are just forum *****s who agree anything that they feel as fotm...

Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.01.20 07:15:00 - [51] Edited by: Hiroshima Jita on 20/01/2009 07:16:19 I have never lost a t1 cruiser to a solo stealthbomber. Forget talking about bc, bs... There have been times when I've fought an enemy gang with stealth bombers and died yes, but any ship that could provide some dps could be substituted in. I'm pretty happy when I learn that the enemy gang has a stealth bomber in it because it doesnt have any tackle, it dies very fast if I somehow get near it, and that ship that just uncloaked wasn't a falcon or a rapier. Overall stealth bombers aren't stealthy except when they wait in ambush, and any other combat fit ship could provide about as much dps if it went gankly. They cost alot, they align slow, and putting a 10mil isk cloak on them is sheer stupidity. I got bombed last night. It took me about 10 secs to realize I was getting bombed and I think I managed to mwd out of range with a cruiser. It was that or the damage was inconsequential. The bomb blew up all the loot and drones from the two other people I had just killed... The only good use I can think of for a stealth bomber is keeping it cloaked most of the fght, and uncloaking it whenever a falcon shows up to shoot at the falcon and damp it. I would rather have a falcon on my side with some caldari ecm for this duty. All that said, submarine games are fun, and when youre part of the uber blob as long as youve got dps on the target youre in good shape. So if you have fun flying this kind of ship and you preform well in it, congratulations. Have fun. My posting here means that I beleive you deserve a buff. Thinking about it a little more the one other use I can pull out is a noobie with frigate 5 but who I would not trust in the middle of a dogfight. Put him 100km off and let him contribute dps. The only problem with this is that if I didn't consider the noobie capable of flying in a dogfight I wouldnt want him hauling a 10mil isk ship around. I would want him in a rifter or somthing like it learning how to fly in the middle of a dogfight. That way his mistakes only cost a couple hundred thousand isk. Which makes learning to pvp alot more fun. <accidentally posted with an alt>
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.20 07:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Brego Tralowski What I was trying to convey, was that a cruiser can be destroyed in 4 volleys. I killed an osprey in 3 volleys on my own the day before. Just saying you can be effective on your own. And guess what: unless you have 4v1 odds, that cruiser (assuming a non-comedy fit, which, granted, may be asking a bit much) is going to kill you long before you get your fourth volley off. It's just like all the bombers that have tried to take a shot at my Harpy, given lots of time they could kill me, but once they de-cloak, their life expectancy is measured in single-digit seconds. Or, assuming they can't just MWD over and gank you because you're out of range, they just warp out. You don't have the ROF to get multiple shots on target before even a cruiser can align out, so it's just a waste of missiles. Originally by: Venomae Don't worry, merin never has flown one and these are just forum *****s who agree anything that they feel as fotm... No, of course not, it's not like the stealth bomber was the ship I fell in love with not even a week into the game, and the first T2 ship I ever flew. I've never put in a bunch of time trying to make them work. I don't go on SiSi after relevant changes to see if maybe they're fixed and worth flying on TQ. And I definitely don't ever see everyone else fail hopelessly at killing me with them. Hint to the clueless: been there, done that, traded my Manticore in for a real stealth ship. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:02:00 - [53] Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 16/01/2009 19:27:33 Originally by: Bret Caliaro I'm going to try this later but until then how do they fair against BCs, HACs and anything cruiser shapped? Go to 50-60km range, get your disruptors on them and just let rip with your missiles. If they get too close cloak up. T1 cruisers go down fairly fast, BC will be a hard fight to beat down (unless they are set up for missions in which case even battleships will fold). Hacs are best avoided unless your in a gang. You can go even further out if you want, just be mindfull of the disruptors and their targeting range. So what exactly is your plan to KILL that cruiser? You're smoking the good stuff if you think you can pop it before it can align and warp out, so you either: 1) Waste missiles doing absolutely nothing. OR 2) Get in close, and become a comedy killmail. Either way, I'm very thankful every time my opponents are stupid enough to bring a stealth bomber to the fight. A lot of people see me and instantly start to burn towards me. The damps give me the advantage of range on alot of cruisers even at 60km and my very high alpha rips apart t1 cruisers and makes people panic. A lot will get deep into armour (caldari realy feel the pain from EM cruise) and start to align out. If they have the buffer they survive, if they are fitted for gank they don't. It doesnt matter if I dont get a kill every time because afterall, it's a glass frigate I'm flying.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:36:00 - [54] My Manticore does just fine (it can hit inties and AB frigs quite well if it needs to), although I may get a Hound and fit 3 BCU's (one CN) for more damage and to hit armor tankers (explosive is also Tech II Caldari shield lowest resist, like on Falcon). ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Super spikinator	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:43:00 - [55] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Avatar with a Cloak? I believe this man has the answer....
NeoTheo Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.20 11:50:00 - [56] Edited by: NeoTheo on 20/01/2009 11:51:38 Prior to QR, you could do enough DPS to pretty much Insta pop cruisers and frigates (2 volley kinda of situation) [assuming your missiles skills are not sucking], however after QR and the problems that sigradius now has a significant effect on the cruise missiles, (even with the SB bonus's) i am afraid that the SB has effectivly been ruined as a ship, it was always niche, however now it really needs some serious fixing. Assault friggates will EAT you, were as pre QR that was not the case. to be honest, makes me a sad panda as these ships used to be AWSOME fun to fly. /Theo - F-OFF - ExE
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:37:00 - [57] Edited by: Thenoran on 20/01/2009 12:37:43 Well, maybe CCP will give SBs a little buff, that or a new ship class with a similar role, like from AF to HAC. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.20 13:22:00 - [58] Originally by: baltec1 A lot of people see me and instantly start to burn towards me. The damps give me the advantage of range on alot of cruisers even at 60km and my very high alpha rips apart t1 cruisers and makes people panic. A lot will get deep into armour (caldari realy feel the pain from EM cruise) and start to align out. If they have the buffer they survive, if they are fitted for gank they don't. Yes, but with a cycle time of at least 12 seconds on those launchers, they will be able to warp out after noticing a particularly scary volley hit them, before the next comes in. You aren't going to be instapopping cruisers, so even if you manage to take a shield-tanked cruiser right down into armour with your first volley, he's simply going to go "Yikes!" and warp out. You simply can't get the missiles to cycle quickly enough to pop him before he decides to leave (even overheated we're talking a 10-second cycle time). I know this, because I've seen it happen with Falcons. Bombers (Purifiers especially) are actually fairly good in this role, but then again so are Zealots and Apocs and they're better at combat in general too. Stealth bombers can be good for harassment, and playing mind games, but when it comes down to an actual battle they're not as good as other ships. And they're definitely not as good as the force recons for harassment and picking off easy target either, though it's probably not fair to compare a T2 frigate to a T2 cruiser and conclude the latter is more effective.
Lord Kracker	Posted - 2009.01.20 13:44:00 - [59] Stealth bombers are good fun if properly used. And in most cases thats the most important thing.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.20 14:10:00 - [60] Edited by: Thenoran on 20/01/2009 14:11:15 Stealth Bombers need a missile velocity bonus and a good one at that, that way by the time the first volley hits there isn't going to be as much time needed to cover the distance for the second volley. And yes, they are fun which is really all that counts, unless your fleet really needs something else.

Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.20 14:11:00 - [61] I used to be an SB pilot....I have to say post-patch they suck. Even w/ a target painter my missiles were doing crap damage, compared to what it did before, and it was of course slower. That being said, to answer your question, if I had to pick a 'best' it would be between the Manticore because it has more available CPU or the Hound for the extra low slot.
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.20 17:51:00 - [62] Pretty sure the Manticore only has two low slots. A Hound could fit 3 BCU's but either one of them would have to be a faction variety for low CPU use, or you'd have to keep your mids empty. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.20 18:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Thenoran Stealth Bombers need a missile velocity bonus and a good one at that, that way by the time the first volley hits there isn't going to be as much time needed to cover the distance for the second volley. I don't think you've quite thought this through. If the missiles are fired 12 seconds apart, then they are going to arrive 12 seconds apart, on the assumption that they are covering the same range. And if you were thinking about reducing the distance during successive shots (i.e. burning towards the target so that the missiles are fired closer together a la the Doppler Effect), then actually increasing missile velocity would harm this. Ironically the slower the missiles go, the easier it will be to bunch them up. If you were thinking about this being a good way to get more damage on a Falcon, say, before he reacts and jams you then that won't work either. The slower the missiles go, the more volleys you can get in the air before the first one hits and the target realises he's being fired at (assuming this is balanced by an equivalent increase in flight time so the range is still the same). Increasing missile velocity means that the target gets the "huh?" effect sooner, and it certainly won't decrease the time they have to react either. So while a missile velocity bonus would decrease the lag between firing and shots landing - which is a legitimate complaint in many cases, a faster-flying missile can actually be harmful in some cases where you want the element of surprise. /me goes off to see how close he can get a SB going to its missiles' velocity... And yes, they are fun which is really all that counts, unless your fleet really needs something else.
Silver Fusion Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.20 18:21:00 - [64] Originally by: baltec1 [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II With this setup I have torn apart everything from badgers to ravens solo. Did this only make me go lol?
Neyro7830 Gallente Axxeon	Posted - 2009.01.20 18:28:00 - [65] Originally by: Silver Fusion Originally by: baltec1 [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II With this setup I have torn apart everything from badgers to ravens solo. Did this only make me go lol? Probably, unless you see something I don't. ... I'm not the brightest crayon etc etc. Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.20 18:53:00 - [66] Originally by: Gartel Reiman ...(i.e. burning towards the target so that the missiles are fired closer together a la the Doppler Effect), then actually increasing missile velocity would harm this. Ironically the slower the missiles go, the easier it will be to bunch them up. This effect is negligible on a stealth bomber so its pretty pointless to mention. Slow missiles suck - a hostile pilot will have their 'huh' effect when your cross hair goes red from yellow, not this long obsolete cavalry raven effect you're talking about... Get fast missiles so your damage doesn't lag any more than it already does.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:01:00 - [67] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 20/01/2009 19:03:49 As much as I hate to agree with Merin, Stealth Bombers are generally not very good as solo ships unless they can one-volley a slow, weak target before they align and warp off. The combination of long range damage and laughable buffer means that either someone else is tackling for you or you're going to end up dead if you try to tackle for yourself. In groups they can be somewhat useful, but they require proper planning to use well. The combination of long range, good damage to cruiser+sized targets, and high base sensor strength makes them fairly good anti-Falcon ships. Coupled with a cloaking 'dictor/HIC, they can also make good for a good ninja-trap. But even good plans fail and if they end up in a short-range brawl with anything other than an Ibis gang they're going to take heavy losses so that limits their general utility somewhat. One other time that the are very useful is for CovOps alts. I have a dedicated CovOps alt with CovOps V and currently the only combat ship he can fly is a stealth bomber. Given the available options (i.e. none), the Stealth Bomber works just fine. EDIT: As for which Stealth Bomber is 'best', there's not a whole lot of difference between them and each do different things a little better. Purifiers and Hounds can be fit for speed or damage, Manticores and Nemeses have one more mid for damps/boosters. Beyond that, the best choice is whichever one gets the bonus to the damage type your target is weakest to. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises HEGEM0NY	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Originally by: Thenoran Stealth Bombers need a missile velocity bonus and a good one at that, that way by the time the first volley hits there isn't going to be as much time needed to cover the distance for the second volley. I don't think you've quite thought this through. If the missiles are fired 12 seconds apart, then they are going to arrive 12 seconds apart, on the assumption that they are covering the same range. True, but usually the target will arp off before the first volley hits, faster missiles would make the first volley a lot more dangerous. Granted it won't fix getting more DPS out of it, but it will help with getting the damage to your target. I do know the potential destructive power of having 3 volleys in space and on the move, but half the time the target is dead or warped out after the first volley hits. Meh, maybe just a 100% damage bonus like on the Marauders and Sansha faction ships?
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:34:00 - [69] Originally by: Silver Fusion Originally by: baltec1 [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II With this setup I have torn apart everything from badgers to ravens solo. Did this only make me go lol? "Torn everything from badgers to ravens solo." Yea, I'm calling you a liar Baltec Were they afk? Because I don't see a point on your setup... Even if you had a point on there...HOW the hell would you take a raven? Even a noob raven for that matter. If he has even one missile launcher you will die or be forced to warp out. I smell troll.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:10:00 - [70] Originally by: baltec1 A lot of people see me and instantly start to burn towards me. The damps give me the advantage of range on alot of cruisers even at 60km and my very high alpha rips apart t1 cruisers and makes people panic. A lot will get deep into armour (caldari realy feel the pain from EM cruise) and start to align out. If they have the buffer they survive, if they are fitted for gank they don't. It doesnt matter if I dont get a kill every time because afterall, it's a glass frigate I'm flying. In other words, you are fighting morons, and ANY ship can kill a moron in a T1 cruiser. Only an idiot is going to stick around if you decloak at 60km, because it's blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of PvP experience that you can easily cloak/warp out long before they reach you. It goes one of two ways: 1) You attack from long range, and just waste your missiles on a target that won't stick around to die. OR 2) You attack from close range with a point on the target, and you die in seconds. Either way, you will never kill a halfway decent PvP target with a bomber.

Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:40:00 - [71] Originally by: Sera Ryskin it's blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of PvP experience that you can easily cloak/warp out long before they reach you. I hate to rain on your parade...but you can't cloak if you're locked. "Long before they reach you." This implies that missiles were already shot... However I do understand what you're saying, I just thought it'd be funny to call you out on SOMETHING. CCP Atlas - The Short Story - "With Quantum Rise, we kind of messed up the performance of the EVE client."
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:50:00 - [72] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: Sera Ryskin it's blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of PvP experience that you can easily cloak/warp out long before they reach you. I hate to rain on your parade...but you can't cloak if you're locked. "Long before they reach you." This implies that missiles were already shot... However I do understand what you're saying, I just thought it'd be funny to call you out on SOMETHING. I'm referring to the bomber cloaking/warping, not the target. If someone takes a shot at me in a bomber from 60km, I'm just going to warp, because I know there's no way I'm ever going to reach them before they run away.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.21 00:00:00 - [73] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 16/01/2009 19:27:33 Originally by: Bret Caliaro I'm going to try this later but until then how do they fair against BCs, HACs and anything cruiser shapped? Go to 50-60km range, get your disruptors on them and just let rip with your missiles. If they get too close cloak up. T1 cruisers go down fairly fast, BC will be a hard fight to beat down (unless they are set up for missions in which case even battleships will fold). Hacs are best avoided unless your in a gang. You can go even further out if you want, just be mindfull of the disruptors and their targeting range. So what exactly is your plan to KILL that cruiser? You're smoking the good stuff if you think you can pop it before it can align and warp out, so you either: 1) Waste missiles doing absolutely nothing. OR 2) Get in close, and become a comedy killmail. Either way, I'm very thankful every time my opponents are stupid enough to bring a stealth bomber to the fight. A lot of people see me and instantly start to burn towards me. The damps give me the advantage of range on alot of cruisers even at 60km and my very high alpha rips apart t1 cruisers and makes people panic. A lot will get deep into armour (caldari realy feel the pain from EM cruise) and start to align out. If they have the buffer they survive, if they are fitted for gank they don't. It doesnt matter if I dont get a kill every time because afterall, it's a glass frigate I'm flying. Yeah but if your facing t1 cruisers you probably have already won. Assuming t1 cruisers sets the bar pretty low and does nothing to argue for the effectiveness of stealth bombers. People WANT to like the SB because they have fun flying them and enjoy the concept. Objectively the stealth bomber is usually inferior in most gangs versus other ships that could be brought in it's place. Doesn't mean SBs can't still do some damage and are still fun to fly at times. Your argument for the effectiveness of SBs is flawed by your emotional attachment to them. They are better than nothing, but hardly ever the best ship you can bring to fill your spot in your gang. The one thing they can do alright is counter camp hostile camps and hope to find other SBs sitting at 0 speed uncloaked. That and they KM ***** like nothing else.
baltec1 R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2009.01.21 00:56:00 - [74] Its a frigate. The fact that it can punch above its class means nothing to lot? You lot need to put away the eft numbers and start having fun. while your all comming up with situations where a bomber would lose I am out picking fights that I can win. As for the reven. Its pilot is called sally (old name of an isk farmer well known to me). I have engaged that raven several times but only managed to get it into armour. The hunt continues. However I did break the tank a t2 fitted raven with the help of an interdictor and cepter. It had a massive hole in EM resists so I sliced through it like butter. Hell I even go out and pick fights in a badger II, why? Because its fun. So what if a more expensive ship can do the job better? Its fun, it works and its cheap.
baltec1 R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2009.01.21 01:04:00 - [75] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: Silver Fusion Originally by: baltec1 [Purifier, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Improved Cloaking Device II With this setup I have torn apart everything from badgers to ravens solo. Did this only make me go lol? "Torn everything from badgers to ravens solo." Yea, I'm calling you a liar Baltec Were they afk? Because I don't see a point on your setup... Even if you had a point on there...HOW the hell would you take a raven? Even a noob raven for that matter. If he has even one missile launcher you will die or be forced to warp out. I smell troll. those disruptors mean the raven cannot target me. My ECM bonused missiles cut right through the thermal/kinetic sheild tank. The drones do not hve the range to reach me. And finaly the fact that its a farmer means I do stand a chance of killing it if its running a macro afk. As has been said, pick your fights.
Gneeznow Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2009.01.21 01:19:00 - [76] Originally by: Gneeznow bombers are worthless
Wannabehero Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2009.01.21 01:28:00 - [77] Edited by: Wannabehero on 21/01/2009 01:30:10 New role bonus skill for bombers: 300% increase in cruise missile damage, 75% RoF penalty for cruise launchers. 9-10k damage per volley then
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.01.21 03:20:00 - [78] There is no reason to ever fly a SB in a fleet unless its all stealthers - even then its a questionable call. If you like long range missiles fly a cerb.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.01.21 03:28:00 - [79] Firstly, I personally like the manti because it accommodates the fit I like best. Second, SBs are strategic ships; they aren't meant for gangs and roaming around acting as 40% of a ravens damage and >1% of its tank..... it can be done... I've done it... but its a horrible bastardized use of them. What they ARE meant for is stealth, unfortunately; there are few opportunities where stealth + dps is more important than just stealth (i.e. recons or cov ops). However, there are some opportunities, mainly in 0.0 where the stealth and quick strike ability (not to mention the new black ops jump portal related business) can be an asset.... albeit not often much of one, but its fun to use them when you have a chance. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Polar Devil	Posted - 2009.01.21 05:56:00 - [80] Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:57:25 Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:56:19 Wouldn't a 2 stealth bomber and a point team work effectively?

Archadam Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:17:00 - [81] SBs are a slow frig with 3 cruise missile launchers on em. Before the missile nerf, SBs were a fun part of guerrilla warfare, but now you have to be a bit more selective with targets, as in you need to attack stuff as big as and bigger than cruisers. SBs were and still are purely support DPS; you still need friends to tackle the damn victim, unless the target's so silly as to head straight at you and your SB friends, since missiles take a while to impact. As support, it's fine as they are. You just can't insta-pop frigs and AFs and such anymore. Just keep to supporting fleet DPS if you don't have any other ship to fly.
mcnuggetlol Amarr Cold Blooded Killers	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:12:00 - [82] Edited by: mcnuggetlol on 21/01/2009 10:12:08 I've taken a pretty big break from the game but really like flying stealth bombers. Have the speed/missile nerfs affected them much?
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:17:00 - [83] Originally by: Polar Devil Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:57:25 Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:56:19 Wouldn't a 2 stealth bomber and a point team work effectively? No. Once you have a non-cloaking ship in the gang, whatever tiny advantage you might possibly have gained from the "stealth" part is now gone. Bring a couple HACs to go with that tackler instead, Zealots are always awesome, or a Cerberus if you want to stick with missiles. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
baltec1 R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:46:00 - [84] Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: Polar Devil Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:57:25 Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:56:19 Wouldn't a 2 stealth bomber and a point team work effectively? No. Once you have a non-cloaking ship in the gang, whatever tiny advantage you might possibly have gained from the "stealth" part is now gone. Bring a couple HACs to go with that tackler instead, Zealots are always awesome, or a Cerberus if you want to stick with missiles. yes it works and for alot less cash. An Arazu with 4 bombers makes a great team. The long range of the warp jammers and ability to sneek up on a target coupled with the bombers raw alpha and the combined targeting disruptors will reduce just about anything to dust.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:59:00 - [85] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: Polar Devil Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:57:25 Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:56:19 Wouldn't a 2 stealth bomber and a point team work effectively? No. Once you have a non-cloaking ship in the gang, whatever tiny advantage you might possibly have gained from the "stealth" part is now gone. Bring a couple HACs to go with that tackler instead, Zealots are always awesome, or a Cerberus if you want to stick with missiles. yes it works and for alot less cash. An Arazu with 4 bombers makes a great team. The long range of the warp jammers and ability to sneek up on a target coupled with the bombers raw alpha and the combined targeting disruptors will reduce just about anything to dust. You know what's a better team? An arazu and 4 ships with regular old cloaks. Once tackled, he's not going anywhere. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
baltec1 R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2009.01.21 11:04:00 - [86] Edited by: baltec1 on 21/01/2009 11:04:20 Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sera Ryskin Originally by: Polar Devil Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:57:25 Edited by: Polar Devil on 21/01/2009 05:56:19 Wouldn't a 2 stealth bomber and a point team work effectively? No. Once you have a non-cloaking ship in the gang, whatever tiny advantage you might possibly have gained from the "stealth" part is now gone. Bring a couple HACs to go with that tackler instead, Zealots are always awesome, or a Cerberus if you want to stick with missiles. yes it works and for alot less cash. An Arazu with 4 bombers makes a great team. The long range of the warp jammers and ability to sneek up on a target coupled with the bombers raw alpha and the combined targeting disruptors will reduce just about anything to dust. You know what's a better team? An arazu and 4 ships with regular old cloaks. Once tackled, he's not going anywhere. why spend 500-600 million isk when a bunch of 25-30 mil bombers can get the job done?
NeoTheo Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:04:00 - [87] gotta say, whilst PRE QR i didnt really agree with merin on this stuff, he is about bang on the button with regards to bombers now (in that they are pretty useless), they really really need CCP to look at ether... A) the cruiser damage potential on the ships (radius and velocity) B) significantly fix the bomb depolyment system and bomb cost situation. /Theo - F-OFF - ExE
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Gartel Reiman ...(i.e. burning towards the target so that the missiles are fired closer together a la the Doppler Effect), then actually increasing missile velocity would harm this. Ironically the slower the missiles go, the easier it will be to bunch them up. This effect is negligible on a stealth bomber so its pretty pointless to mention. Slow missiles suck - a hostile pilot will have their 'huh' effect when your cross hair goes red from yellow, not this long obsolete cavalry raven effect you're talking about... Get fast missiles so your damage doesn't lag any more than it already does. Oh, I agree 100% that this would be a good thing overall and that you can't actually get a non-negligible Doppler effect. I was just replying to the poster saying "by the time the first volley hits there isn't going to be as much time needed to cover the distance for the second volley," and pointing out that missile velocity won't help this.


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