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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
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Posted - 2012.04.19 12:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Remove jump clones entirely.
Also remove the ability to change the medical clone station remotely.
The only way to move somewhere should be to FLY there, not use JC or change station and suicide your pod. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1084
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:No we want 0H JC delays IF you are in the same station as your jump clone.
48H - Other Region
24H - Same Region
12H - Same constellation
6H - Same System
0H - Same Station
Eve is small enough as it is, buy something with a jump drive if you want to get around.
Yes this is something I've been suggesting before also and what I fully support.
Being able to switch clones in same station will not only make it more fun to play, but also increase the amount of PVP in game when ppl are able to get rid of their precious training clones just for 1-2 hour roam with random friends instead of staying out of trouble.
I would also slightly adjust one timer to prevent constant jumping;
48H - Other Region
24H - Same Region
12H - Same constellation
6H - Same System
3H - Same Station
Get |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
546
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Less than 24 hours should be in-station or intRA-regional only.
Too much room for EXPLOITATION here.
goons (I can't capitalize it any longer) just wanna hop across the galaxy in 15 minutes if they could. RISK FREE of course.
That is ALL this is about anyway.
There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
578
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
Remove jump clone timer all together.
Instead, when you jump its considered the equivilent of podding and you lose skill points as if it wasn't updated. You can do this as often as you like, there will reach a limit to how often the player behind the avatar willing to risk instant travel for such a high cost and then the other guy might win. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
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Posted - 2012.04.19 13:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:The argument of overspending on implants is a poor justification. Like anything in Eve you shouldn't fly around with things you can't afford to lose, same applies to implants. However the issue of switching clones isn't the issue I personally have, its the instantly moving around the galaxy thats the problem.
What are you talking about? You can do that anyway regardless of JC timers via pod express. Provided you have enough ISK to pay for the replacement clone cover else should you be podded there is consequence.
If you don't like JC thats fair enough and I would probably argue the position is valid. However typing out the garbage you have over the last few posts to justify your position and why you don't like them is contemptible even by your own extremely poor standards.
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
692
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
In response to title: I don't. I want 13 hours. You're wrong. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
225
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:No we want 0H JC delays IF you are in the same station as your jump clone.
48H - Other Region
24H - Same Region
12H - Same constellation
6H - Same System
0H - Same Station
Eve is small enough as it is, buy something with a jump drive if you want to get around. Yes this is something I've been suggesting before also and what I fully support. Being able to switch clones in same station will not only make it more fun to play, but also increase the amount of PVP in game when ppl are able to get rid of their precious training clones just for 1-2 hour roam with random friends instead of staying out of trouble. I would also slightly adjust one timer to prevent constant jumping; 48H - Other Region 24H - Same Region 12H - Same constellation 6H - Same System 3H - Same Stationm
I disagree. It also takes a lot away from the consequences of your choice of implants. I can already go all slaves, hardwired for energy guns, and easily change to a full crystal set with all missile implants. Like someone mentioned before: you can basically count on most of the richer players always flying around with optimized sets because it (already!) is so easy to swap clones.
If people aren't PvP-ing because they have too expensive implants in their head they can't afford to lose, the game absolutely should not be changed to accommodate their spineless consequence-averse, min-maxing behavior.
CCP, fix the forum's image tags http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
Cleaner warbills, anti-memberpadding, no price-shielding large corps:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1141323#post1141323 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
546
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Nu Tra wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:The argument of overspending on implants is a poor justification. Like anything in Eve you shouldn't fly around with things you can't afford to lose, same applies to implants. However the issue of switching clones isn't the issue I personally have, its the instantly moving around the galaxy thats the problem. What are you talking about? You can do that anyway regardless of JC timers via pod express. Provided you have enough ISK to pay for the replacement clone cover else should you be podded there is consequence. If you don't like JC thatGÇÖs fair enough and I would probably argue the position is valid. However typing out the garbage you have over the last few posts to justify your position and why you don't like them is contemptible even by your own extremely poor standards.
I'm pretty sure Brook's position has to do with moving around the galaxy RISK FREE.
Those two KEY words are often ignored, as they are wrapped up inside the very idea of Clone Jumping itself, by it's very nature.
There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
Nu Tra wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:The argument of overspending on implants is a poor justification. Like anything in Eve you shouldn't fly around with things you can't afford to lose, same applies to implants. However the issue of switching clones isn't the issue I personally have, its the instantly moving around the galaxy thats the problem. What are you talking about? You can do that anyway regardless of JC timers via pod express. Provided you have enough ISK to pay for the replacement clone cover else should you be podded there is consequence. If you don't like JC thatGÇÖs fair enough and I would probably argue the position is valid. However typing out the garbage you have over the last few posts to justify your position and why you don't like them is contemptible even by your own extremely poor standards.
Death cloning is another issue, however this thread is about Jump cloning. |
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
690
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'd be happy with 20.
Effectively the same amount of time ("a day"), but prevents "timer creep" -- when you are jumping fairly regularly, but jump ~5-10 minutes later each time cause of the timer. |
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Joe Skellington
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
55
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Posted - 2012.04.19 13:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:How dare you speak for me ? No I don't want 12 hour JC's, and I would apreciate the end of misguided threads of altruist people thinking they're speaking in my behalf....
No ****, who the **** gave this OP permission to speak for me as well.
-á-á |\__/|-á
-á/ @ @ \ -á-á
-á( > -¦ < )-á
-á`-+-+x-½-½-¦
-á-á / O \ |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
547
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 13:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Remove jump clone timer all together.
Instead, when you jump its considered the equivilent of podding and you lose skill points as if it wasn't updated. You can do this as often as you like, there will reach a limit to how often the player behind the avatar willing to risk instant travel for such a high cost and then the other guy might win.
Skill Consequences for THIS and not High Sec Suicide GANKING ? Bad idea.
There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
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Posted - 2012.04.19 13:59:00 -
[73] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nu Tra wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:The argument of overspending on implants is a poor justification. Like anything in Eve you shouldn't fly around with things you can't afford to lose, same applies to implants. However the issue of switching clones isn't the issue I personally have, its the instantly moving around the galaxy thats the problem. What are you talking about? You can do that anyway regardless of JC timers via pod express. Provided you have enough ISK to pay for the replacement clone cover else should you be podded there is consequence. If you don't like JC thatGÇÖs fair enough and I would probably argue the position is valid. However typing out the garbage you have over the last few posts to justify your position and why you don't like them is contemptible even by your own extremely poor standards. I'm pretty sure Brook's position has to do with moving around the galaxy RISK FREE. Those two KEY words are often ignored, as they are wrapped up inside the very idea of Clone Jumping itself, by it's very nature.
Thanks for clarifying the previous posters concerns for me. 
Neither activity is risk free. It says so on the tin when you install the JC. The fortress systems seen in 0.0 are an irrelevance after the fact. According to the many Bears here in this forum in numerous threads supporting the posit, anything that incurs a 100% certainty of loss is not a considered a risk (pod express). In addition when installing a clone in a null sec station, the pop up advising of uncertainty, is either a risk or it isn't! We cant just cherry pick when it suits us to call ANY loss or potential loss a risk or not. Yeah thanks your clarity really helped him. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Nu Tra wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:The argument of overspending on implants is a poor justification. Like anything in Eve you shouldn't fly around with things you can't afford to lose, same applies to implants. However the issue of switching clones isn't the issue I personally have, its the instantly moving around the galaxy thats the problem. What are you talking about? You can do that anyway regardless of JC timers via pod express. Provided you have enough ISK to pay for the replacement clone cover else should you be podded there is consequence. If you don't like JC thatGÇÖs fair enough and I would probably argue the position is valid. However typing out the garbage you have over the last few posts to justify your position and why you don't like them is contemptible even by your own extremely poor standards. Death cloning is another issue, however this thread is about Jump cloning.
The fact still remains. It is possible to traverse regions at the click of a button. Therefore the concerns you listed can be circumvented without need of a JC. It is only natural to then conclude that the issues raised in your list are not relevant issues at all. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
240
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
As you brought it upon yourself to automatically include me without my given consent, I must automatically switch my vote to no and add your 12 hours to the current 24 as to request a 36 hour jumpclone just to spite you.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Real Poison
Aura of Darkness
Nulli Secunda
95
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
i'd settle for a new skill that subtracts 1 hour of wait time per level.
or just go with infomorph psychology so i don't have to train anything new.
kthxbai |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
KUGUTSUMEN.
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
Nu Tra wrote:
The fact still remains. It is possible to traverse regions at the click of a button. Therefore the concerns you listed can be circumvented without need of a JC. It is only natural to then conclude that the issues raised in your list are not relevant issues at all.
This argument is pointless, since I find death cloning to be a issue as well. I never brought it up because this thread is about JC. Anything that allows you to move large distances of space instantly is a bad design, this goes for cynos, JBs, titan bridges, JCing, death cloning.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder
Thundering Herd
547
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nu Tra wrote:Neither activity is risk free. It says so on the tin when you install the JC. The fortress systems seen in 0.0 are an irrelevance after the fact. According to the many Bears here in this forum in numerous threads supporting the posit, anything that incurs a 100% certainty of loss is not a considered a risk (pod express being one example).
Oh, so you speak NOT from experience, but from crap posted by lying idiots in the Forums.
Great.
There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Nu Tra wrote:
The fact still remains. It is possible to traverse regions at the click of a button. Therefore the concerns you listed can be circumvented without need of a JC. It is only natural to then conclude that the issues raised in your list are not relevant issues at all.
This argument is pointless, since I find death cloning to be a issue as well. I never brought it up because this thread is about JC. Anything that allows you to move large distances of space instantly is a bad design, this goes for cynos, JBs, titan bridges, JCing, death cloning.
Now... This is a completely different position entirely and has little to do with JC per se'. Don't get me wrong, I understand the position you have taken, you may find I could be in agreement, however with reference to your previous post, this thread is about Jump Clones ONLY. As such the arguments you list against ONLY JC can be circumvented by other means rendering your listed arguments irrelevant. Again I'll reiterate that is not to say you have no argument against quick regional travel just that it is slightly misplaced in this particular thread. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Nu Tra wrote:Neither activity is risk free. It says so on the tin when you install the JC. The fortress systems seen in 0.0 are an irrelevance after the fact. According to the many Bears here in this forum in numerous threads supporting the posit, anything that incurs a 100% certainty of loss is not a considered a risk (pod express being one example). Oh, so you speak NOT from experience, but from crap posted by lying idiots in the Forums. Great.
I don't think you quite got the point of including that line in the post. For reference there is a thread here in GD where the poster 'Tippia' has been arguing a perfectly valid point on the subject of RISK. Not to worry though I'll just file your latest blinding insight under 'clarity' much like your previous post.  |
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Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
It's all good to have only have 12 hours delays on jump clones but then people will start to ask for 6.. then 3 and then.. and then... and then... right? go ahead and tell me I am wrong :D |
XIRUSPHERE
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
238
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:No we want 0H JC delays IF you are in the same station as your jump clone.
48H - Other Region
24H - Same Region
12H - Same constellation
6H - Same System
0H - Same Station
Eve is small enough as it is, buy something with a jump drive if you want to get around.
Fully support, if someone wants to do clone swaps and is willing to do it in the system with their clones they should be able to, I can understand limiting the ability to project yourself all over new eden with no effort or flying but for ffs let me get in a crap clone so I can go on a null roam instead of saying "sorry guys im not taking this clone out".
Yeah it's going to allow people with a multitude of fancy clones to swap them at will if they are in the system with them, and what exactly is the problem? You don't like it then pod them and get that fancy podmail, hell you might even get multiple expensive podmails if they go swap to another and come back for more.
The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.
One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. |
Nu Tra
All Seeing Eye
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 14:52:00 -
[83] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:It's all good to have only have 12 hours delays on jump clones but then people will start to ask for 6.. then 3 and then.. and then... and then... right? go ahead and tell me I am wrong :D
Well it's obvious really isn't it? There's already a game mechanic in place that's very near instant give or take 2 minutes and with no limit on the number of times you can do it.  |
Vauss Dutan
Alea Iacta Est Universal
Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2012.04.19 14:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Vauss Dutan wrote:24 hour cooldowns are a design nogo anyhow. It results in creep that causes some people to have to lose an additional day to bring the cooldown back to thier usual playtime.
I skipped an op because i couldnt get out of my implanted clone due to cooldown. Since implants are tied to training time, im not risking it. Too costly. You could say i have more isk in my head than i can afford to lose and thats the problem. I would argue that since implants are tied to training you should always have a body with the best inplants you can possibly buy. It would be nice if training times werent tied to implants.
Implants shouldnt be looked at like ships are. They are not a consumable that you burn through and the prices reflect this.
Its a bad mechanic when someone doesnt have the option to leave a half a billion isk body in the hangar. Instant clone transfers in the same station would fix this.
We should always have te option to jump into **** ships and crappy clones and participate in the game any time. Ohnoes!!! The game forces you to make choices?! What idiot ever came up with that stupid concept of Risk vs Reward?! As for not being able to join the op, that's what you get for hanging around at a different part of the galaxy far away from your buddies. Should make sense, I think.
Read my message again. Ill sum up my important points.
I would like instant clone swapping in the SAME station. This lets me swap clones like i swap ships. It would suck ass to have a 24 cooldown for swapping ships when youre stuck in your 1 bill isk mission runner.
I agree with the choices. I can dock my pricey ship and fly a **** ship and have fun. I cant do this with my clone for 24 hours after a jump. Im ok with the cool down for a jump (although it shoud be 23 hours to stop the 24 hour cycle creep) its the same station clone instant swap i would like, not instant no cooldown system jumps.
Fyi I was in the station where the op was staging out of. I was in my training clone and it also is a station i have a jump clone. I was ready to got but I saw the 10 hour timer so i did some pi and logged off.
The timer and or lack of same station clone swapping was a barrier to me undocking and participating in ops with my corp. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
164
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 15:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
No we don't |
Bane Necran
322
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 15:03:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maybe a new skill that reduces JC time by 2 hours for each level?
Would be 14 hours at lvl5, which is close enough to 12. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1136
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 15:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Less than 24 hours should be in-station or intRA-regional only.
Too much room for EXPLOITATION here.
Like what?
Quote:goons (I can't capitalize it any longer) just wanna hop across the galaxy in 15 minutes if they could. RISK FREE of course.
That is ALL this is about anyway.
I think they must have enough JB's in their alliance to already do 1/4th of all eve quite fast so I don't understand what are you opposed to, like if Eve was all about goonswarm rats and rifters...
It's not a matter of travelling faster, you can blow your jump clone at distance "x" already without being there then JC to another point of your choice.
On the other hand for small to large corps, if players can jump from a pve toon to a pvp toon faster or from a pirate implanted/+5 clone to a cheaper clone to pvp then I'm quite sure there would be more players willing to pvp rather than log off because they have "swimming pool" or their actual clone has expensive implants, and who the hell can be that disturbed and wants to spend hours travelling ???? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
Comic Mischief
582
|
Posted - 2012.04.19 15:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:To those who like waiting 24 hrs for clone jumps, what have you been smoking?
No disrespect, but for the life of me why do you wanna wait 24hr for a piddly clone jump??
Its not that I want to wait, I want my ENEMY to have to wait.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Francisco Bizzaro
32
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Posted - 2012.04.19 15:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Vauss Dutan wrote:Fyi I was in the station where the op was staging out of. I was in my training clone and it also is a station i have a jump clone. I was ready to got but I saw the 10 hour timer so i did some pi and logged off.
The timer and or lack of same station clone swapping was a barrier to me undocking and participating in ops with my corp.
The JC timer doesn't lock the station exit, so we have to assume something else was the barrier to you undocking and participating in ops. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
231
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Posted - 2012.04.19 15:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Less than 24 hours should be in-station or intRA-regional only.
Too much room for EXPLOITATION here. Like what? Quote:goons (I can't capitalize it any longer) just wanna hop across the galaxy in 15 minutes if they could. RISK FREE of course.
That is ALL this is about anyway. I think they must have enough JB's in their alliance to already do 1/4th of all eve quite fast so I don't understand what are you opposed to, like if Eve was all about goonswarm rats and rifters... It's not a matter of travelling faster, you can blow your jump clone at distance "x" already without being there then JC to another point of your choice. On the other hand for small to large corps, if players can jump from a pve toon to a pvp toon faster or from a pirate implanted/+5 clone to a cheaper clone to pvp then I'm quite sure there would be more players willing to pvp rather than log off because they have "swimming pool" or their actual clone has expensive implants, and who the hell can be that disturbed and wants to spend hours travelling ????
Instant travel although it's convenient allows for bad military tactics to be used. For instance there's no real penalty for over extending your borders which makes it far easier to hold onto your territory and just turns it into nothing but a numbers game. |
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